BikePGH!

Bicycle Heaven tagging streets, sidewalks, & trails. This is not ok.

This topic contains 72 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by  JaySherman5000 1 yr, 1 mo.

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quizbot

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Aug 14 2013 at 6:28pm #

There’s a thread on the Pittsburgh subreddit discussing the “BH” tags (with an arrow and in some cases the name of the establishment) that are showing up around the North Shore on trails, sidewalks, and streets. I went through the two linked image galleries, and counted about 75 individual tags. Streets gallery and trails.

Flyers? I’m totally ok with that as a method to promote a business. Tagging public property? Don’t even say “guerrilla marketing”. It’s vandalism, and absolutely not cool. Very poor reflection on the establishment, and contrary to their goals.


Pierce

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Aug 14 2013 at 7:26pm #

As a sober, vegan cyclist who isn’t in the market for a new car, 99% of advertising is a complete waste of my time

A bicycle attraction/resource advertising on a bicycle trail seems like a pretty big no-brainer

When a friend and I went there it was hard to find and there were some signs around at that point (I think it was around spring)

So what exactly is the problem with this? It looks like marking paint, which isn’t permanent. Some of the photos of tags are already fading. On the reddit, it seemed like some people just didn’t like the advertising and other didn’t like the aesthetics

I regularly pass stupid ads for the zoo, whiskey, cheap beer, some shop that buys gold, some woman drinking pepsi in skin tight clothing, etc, etc, etc, so seeing the simple “B.H.” is quite tame by comparison

Let’s not forget the stupid American Flag BNY sign, the Bayer cliff side, the never ending Ketchup bottle, and our UMPC overlords

Also, kids get off my lawn!


bicycle heaven

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Aug 14 2013 at 7:36pm #

Bicycle heaven will do what they can to stop the graffiti,since this was a argument last month with a member here before on this site seems strange for this to happen again.Iwill have our attorney look into using our name brand as spam / damage,Bicycle Heaven is world wide and has a good name and the Museum is a good thing for Pittsburgh.If you want to post things about Bicycle Heaven be certain your not posting spam graffiti your self,,you may be at risk. I have had a few people ask me about the tags but most think its no big deal,i don’t like it and as I said we will do what we can and do what we have to do if someone or any web site uses my good name brand bicycle heaven.I never got a call or have ever met Quizbot I guess just hes not a man to do it but seems very strange for him to go out on this so much.


Vannevar

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Aug 14 2013 at 7:42pm #

When BH tags were first spray-painted on the trail surface, I gave the BH-people some feedback in a thread. They explained that it was errant Boy Scouts who had marked up the trail.

Then they posted with a different username and a pretend-immigrant’s broken syntax about how BH was the savior of this pseudo-person’s transpo needs.

Then the thread was removed from the board.

Recently on the trail, I see that the faded BH markings have been repainted. I guess the Boy Scouts must be maintaining their signage. Those damned Boy Scouts, they’re such scoundrels.

It’s almost tempting to spray paint additional misleading markers for BH and blame it on the Girl Scouts.

It’s ugly commercial spray-paint graffiti on a pretty green river trail.


Ahlir

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Aug 14 2013 at 8:38pm #


it’s a ‘burgh thing, deal with it


bicycle heaven

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Aug 14 2013 at 10:50pm #

Dear Vannevar Bicycle Heaven gets many bike groups to vist the Museum from all around the world not just Pittsburgh and as a champion member of pgh my money helps the bike trails and the events, now i don’t know how much money you have spent but it cost me a lot.I love the bike trails and susport Bike Pittsburgh,The first time i saw markers was when the boy scouts came to visit and like many groups they mark the trail.I have had markers right in front of my shop do to Bike Fest and i dident complain and was ok with me.Bicycle Heaven has worked on the bike trails the same to make it better.I have many flyers that we send out and get many people who stop by the Museum and love it and offer to hand out flyers and what they do with them i cant help 100% of the time.I want everyone to know and to you and Quizbot im sorry for the markers and as i said will do my best to stop it but for you to slander me may be more than you can handle, you never ever came to face me about this ever or even a phone call.I love bicycles and i love Pittsburgh and for 30 hard years of collecting my bikes to build a bike Museum it was a dream of mine .I did it on my own with a few friends WITH no help from banks loans or government help,,i work hard open 7 days a week from 10 till 7 every day / night .i will say it again im sorry to all who are upset over this ,,Bicycle Heaven is free,,thats right free to who ever want’s to visit,


quizbot

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Aug 14 2013 at 11:59pm #

@Pierce: I was wondering why so many people on the trails around the South Side get lost trying to find OTB. No OTB tags on the trails, streets, sidewalks and curbs. It’s a navigational nightmare.

@bicycle heaven: “seems strange for this to happen again”

Honestly, does it really seem that strange? People notice things and share them on the internet. Apparently, it was mentioned on bike-pgh a while ago and now someone completely unrelated to this board noticed, took 80 or so pictures of the vandalism, and posted about it on a different site with much more visibility. People see the tagging as a nuisance.

I’m not “posting spam graffiti”, just sharing links. Go ahead and call your lawyer regarding that & get back to me. I’m dying to hear about my fate.

If anyone has anything to worry about, it’s the Boy Scouts for their propensity toward defacing public property. I know how they operate, and it is not pretty.


Drewbacca

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Aug 15 2013 at 1:12am #

Whoever is responsible, it is in bad taste. I’m thankful to have an establishment like Bicycle Heaven and I hope that Bicycle Heaven has nothing to do with the graffiti. If Bicycle Heaven is responsible for the graffiti, then I think it is fair to state that fact here, in order to show a general disapproval of such things. I’m not asking you to fess up to it, just please stop if you are responsible or know who is… and hopefully this will not be brought up in yet another thread.

@quizbot, calm down… he said he’d have his lawyers look into the use of the BH graffiti (implying that a third party is responsible, without his consent). For the sake of maintaining a respectful tone, lets just give the guy the benefit of the doubt. No one threatened to send lawyers after you (unless I missed something?). Thanks for sharing the link, I had no idea that the tags were so rampant.


Vannevar

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Aug 15 2013 at 6:35am #

“Unable to develop a wayfinding schema, the South Side chamber of commerce decides to implement an evolving North Side trail navigation standard”


AtLeastMyKidsLoveMe

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Aug 15 2013 at 6:38am #

I just read the thread from the reddit quizbot referenced in his original post.

Wow.

Apparently the apocalypse is upon us. It was swell knowing you all. Hope you all have lots of bottled water and canned goods.


gg

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Aug 15 2013 at 7:16am #

Ahlir wrote:it’s a ‘burgh thing, deal with it

Agreed. Goodness, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. I tried to find that place once and couldn’t. Maybe with a little arrow on the bike trail it would be easier to find. At least it is a bike place.


quizbot

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Aug 15 2013 at 7:45am #

gg wrote:Maybe with a little arrow on the bike trail it would be easier to find.

Thanks to the magic of the internet, there is no need for at least 75 little arrows spray painted on the trails, streets, and sidewalks of the surrounding neighborhood. Typing Bicycle Heaven in Google Maps will give you directions. There is even an option for bicycling directions, and it utilizes the trail system.


gg

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Aug 15 2013 at 8:44am #

quizbot wrote:there is no need for at least 75 little arrows spray painted on the trails, streets, and sidewalks of the surrounding neighborhood.

I haven’t been there. If there is over 75 arrows or more, I would say that is pretty ridiculous. Probably looks as bad as that horrible paint mess on the Ellsworth/East Liberty pedestrian bridge. Goodness, whoever did that mess shouldn’t be in art at all. Looks like total crap, but it is there now. Sure looked better plain. Anyway, I had no idea there were over 75 arrows around that area for bicycle haven. If true, I am reversing my stance and agreeing with you. Thanks.


rsprake

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Aug 15 2013 at 8:56am #

Just looked at the gallery. It’s pretty obnoxious.


Marko82

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Aug 15 2013 at 9:16am #

I’ll be marking the roads for the upcoming PedalPgh ride just like I did last year. I’ll be painting all the potholes and marking all the turns. I must say, it looks quite awful on some streets. Yet last year all I heard was how great the ride was marked. I don’t remember hearing one complaint.

Now I’m not condoning all the BH tags laid down on the trail (by whoever), but why the firestorm over this and not for other stuff. I don’t hear people complaining about all of the graffiti and tags along the jail trail; some are not “artistic” but just tags not much different than BH.

The guy said he didnt authorize this. The paint is already fading.
Lets move on.

EDIT: Looking at the gallery some of the tags look NEW. Since this would have been done after the community outburst the first time – I think someone from BH should gray-paint over these.


gg

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Aug 15 2013 at 9:18am #

rsprake wrote:Just looked at the gallery. It’s pretty obnoxious.

Yeah, I just looked as well. That is street litter. I had no idea there were that many poorly painted graffiti signs all over the place. I haven’t been there yet and now I have to say, I think I will forgo a visit. I can’t condone that crap. Wow, I thought there were just a couple little arrows. There is even one that has it on the street and right next to it on the curb! Guess he was really in the mood to make things look bad that day.


steeld55

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Aug 15 2013 at 9:26am #

Marko marking roads for safety is one thing but trails and roads pointing to a well established business is another. But i travel the trail every day and its not common to see new graffiti up so it is a “burgh” thing


Vannevar

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Aug 15 2013 at 9:43am #

Marko82 wrote:: Looking at the gallery some of the tags look NEW. Since this would have been done after the community outburst the first time – I think someone from BH should gray-paint over these.

I can’t speak for anybody else, but if those tags hadn’t been repainted, if they’d just faded and aged, I really doubt this discussion would still be kicking. If it originally was just one or two arrows on the trail, this wouldn’t have ever had any energy.

I’m just so upset that the BoyScouts would come out and junk up the trail again. Ordinarily they’re like “leave no trace”, right? But I guess you put them on a trail and they want to earn their Urban Tagging merit badge.

I do think that Marko has identified the proper response: to ensure that nobody confuses the business with the graffiti, it would be conscientious and brand-prudent of them to gray-paint over these graffitis.


bicycle heaven

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Aug 15 2013 at 10:00am #

I never said the Boy Scouts did the tagging but after they came by is when we had a complaint .A few groups come by that same week it could be anyone any time.Bike Pittsburgh had us on the rout on a bike ride and the trail was tagged and still some riders got lost.The tags just lead to the Museum and I think when other groups plan a ride its easy to go over the same tags.Bicycle Heaven had a bike ride group last night and a few got lost,all I was saying is we will do our best to stop tages.The boy Scouts Bike Pittsburgh and everyone are welcome please don’t tag the trail,,im getting the blame.


erok

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Aug 15 2013 at 10:39am #

For the record, if we’ve ever tagged streets for directions, it was with a chalk based spray, that in theory washes away after a few rains. Considering the deluge at last year’s Pedal PGH, it was most likely gone by the end of the day.


rice rocket

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Aug 15 2013 at 11:03am #

I find it pretty hard to believe that the person taping up flyers with mountains of tape ISN’T the same person with the spray tagging everything. Both behaviors exhibit similar levels of obsessive compulsive, just in two different modi operandi.

IMHO. M2C. etc etc.


Mick

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Aug 15 2013 at 11:12am #

I just looked at the gallery.

The BH tags on the street are totally OK by me. I had trouble finding it the first time and these would have been helpful.

I’d like to see more signs giving directions on the bike trail. Even if those signs are illegal, sloppy spray paint, they are a public service.


Drewbacca

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Aug 15 2013 at 11:32am #

Mick wrote:I’d like to see more signs giving directions on the bike trail. Even if those signs are illegal, sloppy spraypaint, they are a public service.

Even if there is a better way to accomplish the same end result? A more tasteful way? With fewer arrows? With chalk as opposed to spray paint?

Let’s tear down PNC and put 3Rivers back while we are at it… Keep Pgh beautiful!

How difficult can it possibly be to find this shop???


Mick

Private Message

Aug 15 2013 at 11:40am #

@drewbacca
Even if there is a better way to accomplish the same end result? A more tasteful way? With fewer arrows? With chalk as opposed to spray paint?

yup. Even then.

If every bike-related institution did the same and our trails were a cacaphony of spray paint, it would be vast improvement over trails that are a mystery to anyone who doesn’t already know where those trails go.

We desperately need better signage on the trails.


Mikhail

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Aug 15 2013 at 1:14pm #

Drewbacca wrote:
Even if there is a better way to accomplish the same end result? A more tasteful way? With fewer arrows? With chalk as opposed to spray paint?

What is a better way?

And why chalk is better?

Let’s tear down PNC and put 3Rivers back while we are at it… Keep Pgh beautiful!

Let’s kill all humans! Freedom to robots!

How difficult can it possibly be to find this shop???

It took me three attempts during my three lunch hours.


bicycle heaven

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Aug 15 2013 at 1:46pm #

Bicycle Heaven will go down to remove what they can ,if it happends again let us know,,,just call us please


bikeygirl

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Aug 15 2013 at 4:17pm #

Bicycle Haven,
I really think that, to fit the stature of the museum, you should just pony-up the money and do a nice-professional sign with map, and address that shows hot to get to BH, and maybe a blank area where you can post posters for different events so the darn “Boy Scouts or whoever” stop doing all that unsightly tagging that is just cheap. You have a nice bike collection -do proper by it!

You could have something like this, (see pic), where you have a Marker coming from the “south” of the trail by the casino, another at the “north” of the trail by the Jail, and another at a key street intersection. Better than defacing the streets and trails. AND I bet you that more people might be “gosh, look at that sign, BH must be the place to be”.

How about that?
You could also use some money on a better entrance-sign. I know you are (BH) is on a warehouse, but you could do better/be inventive about it.

Just my 2c


quizbot

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Aug 15 2013 at 4:43pm #

@bicycle heaven: You should definitely let the Boy Scouts and other bike meet up people know that they’re harming your reputation in the local community. Thanks for being willing to help clean up.


Vannevar

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Aug 15 2013 at 6:42pm #

Did Marty Griffin have something on this evening’s broadcast about this?


cburch

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Aug 15 2013 at 6:50pm #

he could use his spiky douche hair to srcub the markings off of everything.


Vannevar

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Aug 15 2013 at 7:03pm #

bicycle heaven wrote:Bicycle Heaven will go down to remove what they can ,if it happends again let us know,,,just call us please

If/when BH removes the trail graffiti advertising their business, my concern is resolved.


AWallRider

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Aug 15 2013 at 7:20pm #

OK, I realize I sometimes have a hard time detecting sarcasm, but does anyone really believe that a bunch of Boy Scouts would seriously tag the streets and trails 75 times?

But I guess it could be one evil Boy Scout who is too lazy to think of his own Eagle Scout service project. Perhaps he tags at night, but cleans them up during the day to rack up service project hours.


AWallRider

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Aug 15 2013 at 7:30pm #

Vannevar wrote:Did Marty Griffin have something on this evening’s broadcast about this?

Oh yes he did … see http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/08/15/trail-graffiti-leads-right-to-bike-store/


bicycle heaven

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Aug 15 2013 at 7:32pm #

I just got done with the clean up on the trail and got rid of some other graffiti that someone used with the f word.I removed old tags and the latest ones.I want to thank everyone that helped. I paid for the thinner and paint to cover and to pay for some of the helper’s.We had a extra bunch of people to stop by to support us and I thank you.Bicycle Heaven will do its best to stop this from going on but with bike fest and other events and group rides I cant help that.I am not saying Bike Pittsburgh is tagging the trails.I do have some signs on privet property that I think are ok I will look into that. Now can the news and others please get rid of the other graffiti that have F this and F that ,


Vannevar

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Aug 15 2013 at 8:13pm #

Oh yes he did … see http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/08/15/trail-graffiti-leads-right-to-bike-store/
Thanks, AWallRider!

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) – Graffiti along the Three Rivers Heritage trail has gotten the attention of bike riders who say they’re disappointed someone has vandalized the bike trail with paint.

There are at least 100 markings or graffiti along the trail, and they all lead to one place, Bicycle Heaven.

Pittsburgh public works director Rob Kaczorowski says he has been getting a lot of complaints. “We’re going to give him time to remedy it, and if he doesn’t do it, we’re going to have to bill him for it.”

KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin talked with the owner of Bicycle Heaven, Craig Morrow.

Marty: “It appears at first glance that your people went out and sprayed this all over the trail, does it not?”

Morrow: “Yes it does.”

Marty: “But you’re saying that’s not the case?”

Morrow: “No, we didn’t do it at all.”

Craig Morrow says wayward bike groups did the tagger damage. “People enjoy antique bikes and things like that, and that’s what we’re about.”

Marty: “You understand though it’s illegal?”
Morrow: “Yes I do.”

Marty: “and that it would cost the city thousands to take this up.”
Morrow: “I don’t think Pittsburgh needs that.”

The city has given Bicycle Heaven a few weeks to clean it up. If they don’t, they could bill them for several thousand dollars.


Mikhail

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Aug 15 2013 at 9:23pm #

AWallRider wrote:but does anyone really believe that a bunch of Boy Scouts would seriously tag the streets and trails 75 times?

Easily. Get a bunch of boys (10-15), give each of them a can of spray paint, and say: “Go and mark!” And you will see results in 20 minutes. Or set them in team of twos and let them compete… After they finish you will find marks in some very unusual places.

Been there, done that.


quizbot

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Aug 15 2013 at 10:26pm #

Mikhail wrote:Been there, done that.

So as a Boy Scout, you went out and tagged public property? That’s pretty amazing, considering that the Boy Scouts are fairly well known to participate in graffiti removal projects.

It’s also contrary to their “Leave No Trace” guidelines:

Leave No Trace is a plan that helps people to be more concerned about their environment and to help them protect it for future generations. Leave No Trace applies in a backyard or local park (frontcountry) as much as it does in the wilderness (backcountry).

… Graffiti and vandalism have no place anywhere, and they spoil the experience for others. Leave your mark by doing an approved conservation project.


AWallRider

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Aug 15 2013 at 10:27pm #

Mikhail wrote:
Been there, done that.

Just so I understand… are you saying that when you were a Boy Scout that an Adult Leader gave you spray paint and told you to deface public property?

or

As an Adult Leader of a Boy Scout Troop you gave a bunch on teenage boys spray paint and told them to deface public property?


Mikhail

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Aug 15 2013 at 10:39pm #

quizbot wrote:So as a Boy Scout, you went out and tagged public property? That’s pretty amazing, considering that the Boy Scouts are fairly well known to participate in graffiti removal projects.

Nope. You mind reader is broken. I provided some boys with some ideas and controlled executions. Just to occupy their mind during summer.


bikeygirl

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Aug 15 2013 at 11:29pm #

Seriously?

“…Craig Morrow says wayward bike groups did the tagger damage…”

Now BH is blaming cyclists of doing the graffiti? What happened to the “Boy Scouts”???

What a bunch of lies, but I’m glad KDKA reported on this and Public Works is forcing BH to clean up their mess.

Also, smh at how this is making cyclists look like.

And BTW, I was a Girl Scout growing up as a kid, and I know that “marking with permanent graffiti” is/was not a way to do things.

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