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Bicyclist down — Shady & Marlborough, Sq Hill

This topic contains 69 replies, has 32 voices, and was last updated by  Pierce 1 yr, 2 mos.

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Ahlir

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Sep 17 2013 at 6:15pm #

I was riding by a block away and didn’t realize it was a cyclist…
I’m now told that it was a male biker, on a road bike. No other details, sorry. (He was being loaded into the ambulance; shoes were off.)


Swalfoort

Private Message

Sep 17 2013 at 6:17pm #

Dang! Sure hope he is ok!

For the record, the weather is great – still daylight at time of accident, although dusk not far off. Sky is clear. Visibility should have been good.


Ahlir

Private Message

Sep 17 2013 at 6:39pm #

The weather is nice, but the light (at least when I went by) was in that grey zone of “should I be turning my blinkies on?”

That’s also a deceptive stretch: cars tend to speed and it’s a hump that limits sight lines. I always try to be cautious on it. Of course we don’t yet know what happened, hit by car, dooring, heart attack…

Anyway, I hope he’s ok.


Maggies Sister

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Sep 18 2013 at 6:36am #

Yeah, that was me (unless there was another incident at the same intersection). I prefer not to get into the details, but we can rule out heart attack.

I appreciate the concern.


Marko82

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Sep 18 2013 at 6:59am #

@maggies-sister, Glad to hear that your ok enough to at least post on here. I hope you heal real soon.


buffalo buffalo

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Sep 18 2013 at 7:30am #

Another one this morning:
“@pgtraffic 8:14 AM – 18 Sep 13
Bicyclist struck by vehicle at Friendship Av and Edmond St in Friendship, reported on way to hospital with head injury.”


bikeygirl

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 8:52am #

ugh… :(


Lou M.

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 9:20am #

buffalo buffalo wrote:Another one this morning:
“@pgtraffic 8:14 AM – 18 Sep 13
Bicyclist struck by vehicle at Friendship Av and Edmond St in Friendship, reported on way to hospital with head injury.”

Scary. I rolled through there possibly minutes before this happened. Hope they are alright!


jonawebb

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 9:22am #

Friendship & Edmond:

http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/vehicle-hits-bicyclist-in-bloomfield-1-injured/-/10927008/21994856/-/ymumnnz/-/index.html


buffalo buffalo

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 9:23am #

[edit collision]


jonawebb

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Sep 18 2013 at 9:24am #

[never mind]


J.Str.

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 9:31am #

FlacidMeatLog • an hour ago ?
“We need to ban bikes before something tragic happens! Why can’t everyone just buy cars?”

Valid point guys. Lets shut ‘er dahn and buy more carz.


J.Str.

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 9:43am #

Doesn’t this intersection have a crossing guard at it in the mornings?


edmonds59

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Sep 18 2013 at 10:36am #

*”before”* something tragic happens? Really?


buffalo buffalo

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Sep 18 2013 at 10:59am #

username abbvs to FML. userpic is Buddy Christ. Gonna go out on a limb and guess sarcasm here…


HiddenVariable

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Sep 18 2013 at 10:59am #

but there’s a bike lane there! shouldn’t that paint have protected the bicyclist?


StuInMcCandless

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 11:43am #

I’m curious to know more about how this happened. In particular, was this caused by a driver squeezing past a cyclist without sufficient space?

Related: Do we need to remove that bike lane and put in sharrows instead? Especially if it’s more harmful than helpful?

Just asking questions here, but they need to be asked, and answered.


indomatt239

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 12:13pm #

This is my morning commute, I passed the scene very shortly after the collision as the first responders were just arriving. If I hadn’t paused to fill the tires up this morning…I cringe at what could have happened. I am cringing anyway.

Anyhow, this intersection is EXACTLY the point were the bike lane ends and the sharrows start on the narrow part of inbound Friendship Ave. I get the business from drivers on a regular basis as I shift to the left to take the lane.

p.s.
this is also a well marked school zone with a 15 mph limit and flashing lights, FWIW


erok

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 12:24pm #

this intersection is confusing for all involved with that odd jug handle and and circle.


Mick

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Sep 18 2013 at 12:33pm #

buffalo buffalo wrote: Gonna go out on a limb and guess sarcasm here…

It’s kinda hard to push an “unreasonable driver” position past the point where people would believe it is, indeed, a real driver.

FML is no worse than the guys debating Stu on facebook

I personally think that if we all bought cars then our economy would get out of the doldrums and there would be some hard-working, deserving billionaires that would get the opportunity to make some real money. Which is what makes America great.

It’s a shame I keep getting distracted each time I head for the car dealership. SMDH.


planigan

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 12:39pm #

I drove by the scene at Friendship & Edmond this morning on my commute, before first responders but after a small crowd had already gathered.

From the position of the vehicle, it looked like the driver was attempting to cross Friendship Ave heading north on Edmond from that weird turnaround at the west end of Friendship Park. I think the cyclist was struck as he or she rode through the intersection heading west on Friendship Ave.

Seeing someone on the ground like that made my stomach drop. I really hope the victim is OK.


kitaira

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 1:39pm #

Glad to see the driver didn’t leave… I’m trying to think of how the light works in this intersection. (Or basically, I’m trying to think of possible scenarios) I know going outbound, folks going around the park often hit the gas and try to beat any vehicle coming down friendship. Same goes for inbound on the other side of the park (Gross St?) but I *think* there’s a traffic light inbound at the intersection where this happened. I know I often get stuck in a line of cars, but haven’t actually been stopped at the front and checked out the intersection for specific trafficking.

I do know I’ve been trying to get hold of anyone I know who rides through there. Sad morning messages, to make sure your friends haven’t been knocked out during their commute.


Steven

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 1:48pm #

From Street View, it looks like a northbound vehicle on Edmond has a stop sign, while a westbound vehicle gets a traffic light. Maybe the intersection would be safer with a traffic light for both directions.


edmonds59

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 1:49pm #

Given the way vehicles enter and negotiate the Friendship loop, it is similar to a roundabout – portends poorly for the possible use of roundabouts in Pgh. I just don’t think Pgh Drivers are bright enough to get it.


kitaira

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 1:51pm #

Steven wrote:From Street View, it looks like a northbound vehicle on Edmond has a stop sign, while a westbound vehicle gets a traffic light. Maybe the intersection would be safer with a traffic light for both directions.

This sounds right, just based on seeming to remember people coming at me on the left with no restriction of a red light… (Am I reading this right?)


planigan

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 2:37pm #

This sounds right, just based on seeming to remember people coming at me on the left with no restriction of a red light… (Am I reading this right?)

I think that signal controls the Cedarville & Friendship intersection. When the westbound vehicle on Friendship has a red, the light northbound at Cedarville is green. The stop sign northbound on Edmond is placed in the middle. Vehicles crossing Friendship northbound onto Edmond are supposed to stop regardless of the light, but westbound traffic on Friendship is supposed to stop before Edmond when the light is red — even thought the light controls the next intersection. It’s basically a giant clusterfuck.

Honestly, that little road that lets you “turn” left onto Edmond from Friendship Ave probably shouldn’t exist at all — and I say this as someone who uses it as a shortcut to get home every day.

The big problem with Friendship Park is that the ends of the park don’t allow it to function like a roundabout at all. With roundabouts, traffic entering the circle is supposed to yield to traffic already in the circle. Heading east on Friendship and want to circle back west or turn north on Gross? You are not continuing in the circle, you are making a u-turn or a left turn. Traffic “entering” westbound has the right of way. Same deal if you are heading west and want to circle back east, although in that case you are given a different weird little u-turn lane with a stop sign. I actually think eliminating the lights and adding roundabouts on each side of the park would make it less confusing.


salty

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 2:46pm #

@edmonds – if it were actually a roundabout it would be a lot less confusing, the way it is (on both ends of the park) now is completely messed up and I’m surprised there aren’t more crashes there.

What Steven said is correct and so if the crash happened as described (cyclist westbound on Friendship, driver northbound on Edmonds) and the cyclist had the green there’s no doubt it was the driver’s fault: http://goo.gl/maps/QC51J

Hope the cyclist is ok… I haven’t seen any reports since this morning.


StuInMcCandless

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 2:49pm #

Anyone got video of rolling through here under normal conditions? I’ve been through there, maybe get past that once a month, but not enough to become familiar with its particular weirdnesses.

And that’s important. A street should be self-explanatory. You shouldn’t have to “know how” to traverse a corner, no matter what mode of travel you use. I myself don’t have a problem with Babcock Boulevard and its six places where a right turn lane materializes and you have to get left, because I do it all the time. But that would scare and confuse the hell out of anyone who doesn’t do it all the time.

Yeah, let’s analyze this one closely. With an area as bicycle dense as this part of town, on a street that seems it should be fairly safe and low speed, this sort of thing simply should not happen.


hardtravelin

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 4:43pm #

As someone who bikes through here almost every day, I don’t think it’s really confusing as much as it is a place where vehicles turning left onto Edmonds from that weird little hook frequently try to game the system. It is a little weird because while there is a light there, cars in the hook just have the stop sign and can cross there. Add into the mix that there are frequently vehicles blocking the bike lanes on either side of the street on the other side of the intersection (either at the funeral home on the one side and Friendship Medical Associates on the other), it can be hairy. I know that cars can cross there even if I have the light and I know that they are always trying to gun it across there at their first opportunity, so I approach that area cautiously. I think being someone who drives this neighborhood with some regularity helps, cuz I understand how that intersection works, but I could see a non-driver just assuming that they have a green light and oh yeh, obviously that car has to wait for the light.


kitaira

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 5:03pm #

Has anybody heard anything more on the condition of the cyclist?


salty

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 5:20pm #

People going straight on Friendship are correct to assume people on Edmonds have to wait, even if they don’t have a light. I understand that it might not work that way in practice but the people on Edmonds are doing something illegal if they violate the right of way of people on Friendship. Of course, they do it anyways because there’s zero enforcement and they usually get away with it, until that one time they don’t and cream a cyclist… Wait – they probably get away with it even then, just not the poor cyclist.


Ahlir

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 6:25pm #

I travel this stretch on Friendship from the west. Once you get to the bit with the bike lane it starts to feel safe. I guess not so much from the other direction.

I would tend to agree that this intersection would work better as a roundabout. Roundabouts don’t need to take up much space:

The nice thing about roundabouts is that once you’re in you have absolute right of way; riding along the periphery will get you to where you want.

While getting that picture I ran across this baby:

Now this is what I call road design…


quizbot

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 11:42pm #

Many PGH drivers don’t get the concept of stop signs when presented on their path. Pretty sure they have no capacity to mentally process a roundabout.

Exactly how many roundabouts are there in western PA, let alone Allegheny county? City of PGH? Nobody understands how to handle them on a practical level, and I don’t see that as a reasonable fix.


salty

Private Message

Sep 18 2013 at 11:54pm #

Well, there’s the one at Reynolds @ Homewood at least. Roundabouts are simpler to understand than stop signs, and would have eliminated the 90 degree conflict in this faux-roundabout on Friendship. No one stops at stop signs anyways (except me), so why continue the charade? There are entire cities with no stop signs at all.


edmonds59

Private Message

Sep 19 2013 at 6:25am #

In Ahlirs pic 3 posts up – I see Pghdrivers pretty much going straight across that sucker.


gg

Private Message

Sep 19 2013 at 7:50am #

quizbot wrote:Many PGH drivers don’t get the concept of stop signs when presented on their path. Pretty sure they have no capacity to mentally process a roundabout.

Firstly, I hope the cyclist is okay. Shame.

I agree with quiz, but it isn’t just Pittsburgh. Drivers in the US just aren’t trained how to drive. They are trained how to parallel park and given their license. Hence my mirror hanging off my glasses as I ride my bike.

On a brighter note, this weather has been amazing!


Steven

Private Message

Sep 19 2013 at 8:09am #

There’s also a roundabout in South Park on Corrigan Drive, and one on Ewing Road in Moon that opened in 2011. They’re talking about one for West McMurray too (a few miles into Washington County).

There’s also this one, but it’s not so local.


jonawebb

Private Message

Sep 19 2013 at 8:15am #

I don’t know, I feel pretty unsafe in roundabouts on a bike, less safe than with stop signs. There’s too much chance drivers will do something unexpected.
Lovely Bicycle had an article on roundabouts, which are more respected in Ireland, where she is now, than in New England, where she is from: http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2013/08/the-cyclist-and-roundabout.html.
Every time I’m driving over on Penn and I head back home and realize I’m trapped into going through that weird area in Friendship with the park in the middle of the road, I groan. It is just a mess.


buffalo buffalo

Private Message

Sep 19 2013 at 8:22am #

Steven wrote:There’s also this one, but it’s not so local.

eeuugh. that looks like a demented version of dupont circle

[ps., DC's got a whole bunch of traffic circles. they've also got a whole bunch of bikers. pretty sure someone's figured something out...maybe someone should ask them?]


StuInMcCandless

Private Message

Sep 19 2013 at 10:01am #

I suppose if you grow up with them, they are second nature. Here is one of the neighborhoods where I grew up. My grandmother’s house is roughly in the center of this view. Note the two circles at the bottom, one at the top.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Dorrance+at+Ward+Court,+Buffalo,+NY&hl=en&ll=42.837835,-78.814867&spn=0.013831,0.033023&sll=40.461389,-79.989417&sspn=0.003588,0.008256&hq=Dorrance+at&hnear=Ward+Ct,+Buffalo,+Erie,+New+York+14220&t=m&z=16

The Dorrance at Ward Court one, which now sports stop signs (they were unsigned when I was a kid), is just the size to handle a bunch of traffic. This setup has been the same for 50 years.

The one at the west end of Main Street, East Aurora NY, has also not changed appreciably in 50+ years. This handles three numbered highways, a gas station, and a McDonalds (and mere feet away from a Tim Horton’s). This one uses yield signs.

https://maps.google.com/maps?q=main+at+seneca,+east+aurora,+ny&hl=en&ll=42.767667,-78.629622&spn=0.003462,0.008256&sll=42.831903,-78.808751&sspn=0.013895,0.033023&hq=main+at+seneca,&hnear=East+Aurora,+Erie,+New+York&t=m&z=18

Remember, it also snows like the devil here, too.

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