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Bikers Hit at Reynolds and S. Lexington

This topic contains 191 replies, has 52 voices, and was last updated by  bikeygirl 1 yr, 4 mos.

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rsprake

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Apr 24 2013 at 3:11pm #

ieverhart wrote:
Easier than transit directions on Google Maps?

As a start it needs to be real time. From there it needs to be more frequent and more direct. But beyond that even, we have to get back to neighborhoods. Cars have made it too easy to have a doctor or church across town and too easy for us to drive 4 miles further to the “nice” grocery store rather than the one down the street.


JustRay

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Apr 24 2013 at 3:56pm #

pbeaves wrote:I for one second a Flock Of Munchkins ride.

I’m fifth or sixthing it. This is a stupendous idea.


StuInMcCandless

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Apr 24 2013 at 4:13pm #

I assume people do not have any better technology than I do at the moment: A crappy cell phone with no Internet. The only thing I assume is that they can read English (and I have reason to doubt that, but let’s keep the argument simple).

Why drive anywhere, ever? Lots of good reasons, but I’d wager 3 in 10 car trips, at least, are unnecessary if the info was available. I do not know where this woman was heading, but it’s safe to assume she was traveling from work (I think some medical office in Sq Hill?) to home, somewhere east of Braddock Ave (I don’t know where). Such a trip is definitely do-able by transit. So why wasn’t she on a bus?

Throw in a few side trips — I mentioned picking up something at the store, getting Suzy to piano lesson, yada yada, and that vastly complicates traveling by transit. If you cannot figure out a theoretical trip of (say) Forbes and Shady to (say) Collins Rd in Blackridge, then adding Points C and D to that becomes nigh impossible.


Pseudacris

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Apr 24 2013 at 4:23pm #

I love the idea of the munchkin ride. I was impressed with the parents and the kids they brought on Tuesday eve. One kid did the ride skooching along on his balance bike! It would be a good opportunity to demonstrate visibility and safe riding habits (i know, we all have different philosophies on this….do whatever is a good role model for kids riding to school…).

Other thoughts…

-All of the problems neighbors who live near the accident cited are similar to problems neighbors in Park Place (the far side of S. Braddock Ave) and Regent Square have. People speeding, dangerous or entirely negligent “yielding” at existing crosswalks, unsafe passing of cyclists, lack of crosswalks in many places, people avoiding Penn Ave or S & N Braddock at high speeds, blowing through neighborhood stop signs, etc. It is challenging to visit the park I live 2 blocks from.

-There are a several schools adjacent to the park: Sterret Elementary, Ellis School, Shady Side Academy, and 2 locations of the Environmental Charter School (I’d throw Shady Lane in there, too). On my side of the park we have major problems with speeding school buses, private cars blocking bikes, peds & driveways, etc.

-I drive to Moon Twp during the morning rush hour about 3x per week. I often pass Allderdice High school and see unbelievable stuff nearly every time. Speeding. Ignoring the “no turn on red” sign. Yielding, um I mean Buzzing, crossing guards at Shady @ Beacon and again at Shady @ Forward. Sometimes there is a backup on southbound Shady of people waiting to turn right onto Forward and head toward the Parkway ramps. Cars who intend to go straight or L on get impatient and pass despite the double yellow line. I have even seen a couple of cars & SUVs use the sidewalk IN A SCHOOL ZONE IN FRONT OF THE SCHOOL to pass the line of cars waiting to turn right.

It is so stressful to watch. I am one of the people waiting to turn right, cringing at the ass-hattery. I hate driving & really wish there were more transportation options out to Moon Twp.


Pseudacris

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Apr 24 2013 at 4:26pm #

Maybe the answer is to allow gas drilling in Frick Park. The proceeds could be used to build a dedicated expressway right through the park for cars only. Paging Jack Wagner and Rick Fitzgerald?


byogman

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Apr 24 2013 at 5:39pm #

“The proceeds could be used to build a dedicated expressway right through the park for cars only.”

Oh, like the one in Schenley Park? Yeah, that’s just great…

I don’t recall if this link has been dropped in this thread, but I’m sensing it’s time:

http://bikepgh.org/2013/03/22/take-action-tell-the-candidates-that-you-want-safe-streets/


Ahlir

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Apr 24 2013 at 6:21pm #

Did Peduto imply that he would get stop signs up and maybe get some serious traffic calming installed (bumps, chicanes, anything…)

Something like this:

→ street narrows so that cars have to negotiate passage
→ cross-walk is raised and acts as a speed bump
→ a signed crosswalk for pedestrians

What’s not to like? (gubament taking away our freedoms?)


chinston

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Apr 24 2013 at 7:47pm #

God, I would love to see street furniture like that all over the city.


katyfrey

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Apr 24 2013 at 8:01pm #

Park Place and Regent Square are working hard to lobby for “bump-outs” like in your photo for Braddock Avenue. I don’t know if that is a good solution for Reynolds, though.

I 311’d the pothole situation on Reynolds. They are especially bad in the next block. Can everybody else jump on that? I know the DPW crews are out doing potholes now and it would be nice to get that done fast.

I’d like to see all-way stop signs at Lexington. Also the traffic circle there is sort of terrifying to cross on foot or by bike. Nobody really seems to know how to handle it and it’s too wide. If it was a tighter turn, then you’d be forced to slow down.

But really, if you made Lexington one way, you’d eliminate a ton of through traffic there.

And big +1 to the family/kid rides!! I organized one for Bike Fest last year and we had 3 lovely families join us for a little ride from the Bowling Green to the Blue Slide park. It would be awesome if someone wanted to organize a weekly or monthly ride. I’d do it, but I’m swamped with all these stinkin’ traffic meetings I go to. :)


gg

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Apr 24 2013 at 8:23pm #

Benzo wrote:I drive an SUV. It’s great for taking 4 people and all their stuff somewhere with 4 bikes on the back.

I can easily do all that in any 4 door car, even my little A4. Oh and I have AWD, can see little kids, it handles well, avoids well and is just much smarter to drive. Sorry, but it is what it is.


ieverhart

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Apr 24 2013 at 8:30pm #

@ Stu – I don’t have a data-enabled/smart phone either. Compared to the mobile interface, the website version for Transit Directions is as good if not better for planning out routes and exploring options for any given trip. As I see it, the problem is then either (1) people don’t have computers and Internet at home to connect, or (2) people don’t want to make the effort to plan out a route in advance. But in neither scenario is it an issue of the Port Authority’s need to provide “easier to understand transit info.”

We’ve talked about putting route maps and schedules at bus stops (as they seem to do in a lot of other cities) and while I am in favor of that, I am not convinced that it makes it more easy to understand. What else could be happening in the realm of “information”? (Would someone who won’t look for point-to-point information online look online for anything else?)

Is it something other than routing?

@ Ryan – I agree that more frequent service and more direct routes would be great, and I would also love to see real-time tracking. But that’s not the same as figuring out how to make a trip using existing route and schedules, to answer the question “Just how would you go from home to work, then to the doctor’s office, then to the store pick up some potatoes, then back home, using transit?”

+1 on neighborhoods.


paulheckbert

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Apr 25 2013 at 12:38am #

I added this comment to the Post-Gazette story:

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/8-year-old-boy-in-critical-condition-after-being-hit-on-bicycle-684576/

Mark Parrish suggested that 8 year olds should not be bicycling on streets. Nonsense. We need ten times as many 8 year olds bicycling on our streets. That way they can grow up to be adults that bike to work and stay healthy. PA Vehicle Code Sec. 3501 says “Every person riding a pedalcycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle…” From all I’ve heard, the cycling family was within their rights, cycling on the street in a legal and safe fashion, and had the right of way, but the car driver was careless, perhaps in a hurry, probably didn’t look around after stopping, and ran over a kid. She should lose her license for a year, I’d say.


edmonds59

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Apr 25 2013 at 6:32am #

Oh you people went and got me involved in the PG comments. :/


Mikhail

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Apr 25 2013 at 6:32am #

Hm, guys many of us have cars. Even more have driver license. And all we should remember that (http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pa_driversmanual/introduction.pdf):
Driving is a privilege and not a right. This privilege comes with many responsibilities.

I feel that people like Mark Parrish don’t remember about this fact.

PS I don’t have facebook account and I ma not going to create it. So I cannot comment on PPG site.


edmonds59

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Apr 25 2013 at 6:33am #

No worries Mikhail, I got that covered. :)


Mikhail

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Apr 25 2013 at 6:45am #

Thanks!


steevo

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Apr 25 2013 at 7:30am #

In regards to “street furniture”

PIttsburgh hates pedestrians

Please see those photos. I used to take pics when I saw them.

It is plain and simple. The laws need to be enforced. Speed limits.
Stop signs. Ped crossings. All of them.


ericf

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Apr 25 2013 at 8:10am #

I drive an SUV, and I use it to haul my bike inside of it every day. I don’t understand why some people seem to imply that SUV’s make the roads less safe than any other vehicle.

Drewbacca wrote:But, I digress since it was a lone SUV responsible for this latest reminder of human stupidity.

Seriously? An inanimate object is responsible for human stupidity?

jonawebb wrote:I know. But I hope you’ll agree that SUV drivers have to be extra careful in some situations.

Why do SUV drivers have to be more careful than any other driver?

gg wrote:SUV drivers buy them mostly for selfish reasons.

Doesn’t everyone buy a vehicle for selfish reasons?

Seems to me that it is the idiot behind the wheel that causes the problems, not their choice of vehicle.


Marko82

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Apr 25 2013 at 8:12am #

@edmonds, check your pm’s


gg

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Apr 25 2013 at 8:14am #

People like Mark Parrish are the types that are happiest in their own misery. He is just trying to bring others down around him to have some company in that miserable state. No doubt forgot to take his meds again.

More importantly, I hope the kid is doing better each day. I also hope something can be done to these self centered selfish drivers speeding through city streets to try and save one minute. She sure fits the bill of the typical aggressive SUV driver running around city streets. I see them countless times every day.


jonawebb

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Apr 25 2013 at 8:26am #

@ericf, because you’re higher up and it’s harder to see what’s in front of you, down low. Also the car is heavier and will cause more damage in an accident. And the car is wider so you need to pull over more when, say, passing a cyclist.


edmonds59

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Apr 25 2013 at 8:33am #

@Marko – done.


ericf

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Apr 25 2013 at 8:39am #

@jonawebb I agree that SUV’s are higher, heavier, and wider, but every driver has to be able to control their vehicle regardless of its mass or size. Your comment seems to imply that somehow people who drive smaller vehicles can get away with being less observant or attentive than people who drive larger vehicles.


ajbooth

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Apr 25 2013 at 10:22am #

I drive an SUV. I need the space, as I have a side job that requires me to fill the vehicle with equipment every weekend.

I’ve never hit anyone. I’m careful, I look around, and I drive like I ride–always assuming that every other driver is an asshat.

It’s not the vehicle, or the type of vehicle, it’s the operator.


Drewbacca

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Apr 25 2013 at 10:31am #

“Seriously? An inanimate object is responsible for human stupidity?”

If that is how you want to read into my words, I’m not going to bother correcting you.

It’s not healthy to nit-pick a sentence out of the larger context… and I still can’t see over your stupid oversized vehicle without a periscope. But, if you have a valid reason to drive an oversized vehicle… more power to you.


ericf

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Apr 25 2013 at 11:35am #

@Drewbacca,
I am not trying to start a flame war, and did not mean to nit-pick. I am trying to understand if you truly believe that if the woman had been driving a smaller vehicle that somehow she would not have hit Iain, or if you are just making a political statement with your SUV bashing.


jonawebb

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Apr 25 2013 at 11:39am #

@ericf, it’s common sense to believe that if this driver had been driving a smaller vehicle which places the driver closer to the ground she would have had a smaller chance of hitting the boy, because she would have been able to see him better.


ajbooth

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Apr 25 2013 at 12:14pm #

I’m not sure I buy the smaller vehicle/closer to the ground argument. I think she did not see him because she did not look.

Logically, here is what I think probably happened…Iain was lagging behind a bit, out of the drivers’ line of vision. She waved Dad and daughter through, and assumed that it was then OK to go, without actually looking to see if that was the case.

If that is what happened, and again, I’m guessing that it might be, then it would not matter what she drove, or how close to the ground she was. If you don’t look, you won’t see.


Marko82

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Apr 25 2013 at 1:39pm #

ajbooth, +1


jonawebb

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Apr 25 2013 at 2:51pm #

@ajbooth and @ericf, let’s be reasonable. Anyone who studies how humans pay attention and process information knows it’s not an all or nothing proposition. Different things can distract you from important parts of the task at hand, or focus you on it.
After the father and daughter passed the driver was probably looking down Lexington and her line of sight would have been a lot closer to the boy’s head if she was lower down, so she’d have been more likely to notice him in her peripheral vision.
Of course it’s her responsibility to drive safely no matter what car she’s driving. But the SUV may well have contributed to the accident.


ericf

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Apr 25 2013 at 3:22pm #

@jonawebb,
How am I being unreasonable? Vehicles don’t cause accidents, bad drivers do. If we follow your thinking, then is it ok for the driver to say “Well of course I couldn’t see him, I was driving an SUV”?
This thread is filled with a lot of “probably” and “might have” assumptions by people who don’t know what really happened, and I find it scary that seemingly intelligent people are lining up to lay blame on the driver’s choice of vehicle. Kind of like blaming guns for murdering people.
Let’s just ban SUV’s and then there will never be another accident.


Pierce

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Apr 25 2013 at 3:35pm #

“and I find it scary that seemingly intelligent people are lining up to lay blame on the driver’s choice of vehicle. Kind of like blaming guns for murdering people. Let’s just ban SUV’s and then there will never be another accident.”

Cars and guns have experienced a proliferation in this country that results in a lot of people getting killed. The majority of the population doesn’t need either. As Stu alluded to, she probably wouldn’t have hit the kid if she was walking, riding a bike, or the bus.


HiddenVariable

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Apr 25 2013 at 3:38pm #

ericf wrote:@jonawebb,
How am I being unreasonable? Vehicles don’t cause accidents, bad drivers do. If we follow your thinking, then is it ok for the driver to say “Well of course I couldn’t see him, I was driving an SUV”?

with that line of reasoning, we could also say it’s ok for a driver to say “i couldn’t see him, i was wearing a blindfold.” so, no, your comparison doesn’t hold.

it’s certainly not unreasonable to believe that reduced sight lines due to the driver’s choice of vehicle may have been a factor in the collision. but no one here is arguing that the driver would have no culpability if that were the case.

if you choose to drive something that is more difficult, you have to use greater caution while driving. if you don’t, you have an increased likelihood of a negative incident. surely you don’t disagree with this, even if you don’t think the driver’s choice of vehicle had any effect in this case.


ajbooth

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Apr 25 2013 at 3:48pm #

I still contend that it is likely that she did not see him because she did not look. And it doesn’t matter what you drive if you don’t make the effort to turn your head. She failed to use the necessary caution in the situation she was in, and a little boy paid the price.


gg

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Apr 25 2013 at 3:52pm #

So long as drivers realize SUVs should NOT be driven like cars, but as I see every day they are driven the same as cars. That is the problem. Sure SUVs are as safe as a car so long as you drive them like the trucks they are. Leave more room when following other cars/cyclists or whatever. Slow down way more if negotiating curves in the road because you don’t know what will be around that curve. A cyclists or pedestrian perhaps? Remember, they don’t handle well and they don’t brake well and they certainly can’t do both very well. They are top heavy and just don’t maneuver well. Therefore, don’t drive them like a car. Do we see SUV drivers not tailgating, driving slower and driving as they should? No. Therefore, I do feel they cause more accidents due to drivers watching all those dumb commercials showing SUVs going through slaloms as if they can handle well and blowing fast through that snow drift like they can magically stop better than a car. They are good for very little. They don’t have much more utility than most cars. It is more smoke and mirrors really.

Anyway, it is what it is. I don’t know what would happen in this case if the women was driving a car. Most likely she wouldn’t have been trying to avoid traffic in a selfish manner cutting through a quiet residential street.


ericf

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Apr 25 2013 at 3:58pm #

@Pierce,
I don’t disagree with you at all, but she and millions of others drive SUV’s every day.

@HiddenVariable,
The difference in sight lines between a Smart car and a Hummer are not that much different to have had an impact on this situation. We are talking about a kid on a bicycle here, not a cat or a dog.


ajbooth

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Apr 25 2013 at 4:03pm #

gg wrote:Anyway, it is what it is. I don’t know what would happen in this case if the women was driving a car. Most likely she wouldn’t have been trying to avoid traffic in a selfish manner cutting through a quiet residential street.

I’m sorry, but I don’t follow that line of thinking at all. She drives an SUV, therefore she is selfish and more likely to take a shortcut? That’s a really big leap.

My SUV handles just fine. I drive it carefully, just like I drive my wife’s sedan. I’ve seen just as many, if not more, commercials showing cars doing the slalom, or any other handling tricks, and I’ve seen just as many bad car drivers as I have bad SUV drivers. It’s the driver, not the vehicle.

By lumping all SUV drivers together and assigning them attributes, we’re just as bad as the “All cyclists run red lights” crowd. Except that we should know better.


gg

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Apr 25 2013 at 4:09pm #

ajbooth wrote:

My SUV handles just fine. I drive it carefully, just like I drive my wife’s sedan.

This is what I am talking about. You CAN’T drive that SUV like your wife’s sedan. Didn’t you read my post? SUV’s don’t do anything well. They don’t avoid anything, so you need to leave more room for error. Cars handle better and avoid better. Sure maybe not a 1964 Caddy, but I am talking late model here. Hopefully you drive them both REALLY carefully and that is fine. Then sure, you can drive them the same, but my point is most drive SUVs way too fast and that is when the problems start. MOST of the issues I have on the road are from the SUV crowd though, so sure I profile and always will. I at least want to try and stay alive on our roads. Not an easy feat.


Nick D

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Apr 25 2013 at 4:41pm #

ajbooth wrote:By lumping all SUV drivers together and assigning them attributes, we’re just as bad as the “All cyclists run red lights” crowd. Except that we should know better.

I have to disagree here. I worked in the automotive industry and interacted with thousands of drivers and their cars*. You start to see definite trends. Whether it be because marketing, personality type, or some other cause, there is definitely a particular customer for most SUV’s–especially Jeeps and other brand-heavy vehicle.

Sure, some people bought their vehicle for practical reasons, but there is plenty of proof that shows most Americans don’t use rational thought to buy things–they are sold to them. Billions of dollars are spent trying to sell certain things to certain people. Because of this, you definitely see behavioral trends with owners based on the cars they drive.

This idea might not sit well with a lot of cyclists, but that is probably because most of are in that minority that is rationally thinking about purchase decisions–part of the reason they ride bikes.

I’m certainly not saying all SUV drivers are bad drivers–when I drive, it’s a 6,000lb 5.7L full-size van–or that we should/shouldn’t lump them together, but it certainly isn’t the same as lumping people on bikes together.

Also, from what I was told by someone who knows the family, the driver was not just cutting through–she lives in S Point Breeze.


Erica

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Apr 25 2013 at 4:52pm #

PIttsburgh hates pedestrians

Please see those photos. I used to take pics when I saw them.

adding all of these to my queue and tagging them with the same tag

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