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Dangerous drivers thread

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rainbow dog

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Mar 19 2014 at 3:42pm #

Sorry but I think insisting on riding (or driving) in the left lane when the right lane is empty is disrespectful towards other road users, regardless of what type of vehicle you operate. The line of parked traffic you refer to was coming up in about a block, not a couple car lenghts. This of course doesn’t justify the close buzz.


ajbooth

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Mar 19 2014 at 6:16pm #

In the paraphrased words of one famous denizen of this board, “take the focking lane.”

Not “disrespectful” at all, at any time, but especially on a Sunday afternoon with light traffic. Be consistent, be visible, and be predictable. RR was all of those things.

NOTHING justifies a close buzz.

I’m thinking of a jersey that says “Carry Permit On Board: Pass Close At Your Own Risk”


edmonds59

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Mar 20 2014 at 6:45am #

I have been remiss in saying – Marko – good story. Glad it ended ok.
I need to make myself a ulock holder that’s a quicker draw.


rainbow dog

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Mar 20 2014 at 7:06am #

ajbooth – what focking lane are you proposing to consistently take? The leftmost? That was a four lane road. The whole right lane was empty. My estimate is that RR was riding at 12 – 13 mph. Slow traffic should keep to the right – whether it’s a bicycle, a car or an Amish buggy.


jonawebb

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Mar 20 2014 at 7:24am #

rainbow dog wrote:what focking lane are you proposing to consistently take?

Yeah. Riding predictably doesn’t mean always riding in a straight line, forever. You are allowed to change lanes. And it definitely doesn’t mean maneuvering around stopped traffic at a red light so you can take the lane again, ignoring the empty lane to the right. Use common sense, and be courteous to other road users.


byogman

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Mar 20 2014 at 7:44am #

The generic “slow traffic” argument doesn’t wash from my standpoint because slow is a relative statement requiring there be other, statistically significant traffic to have any meaning. Per her statement, 3 cars in the opposite direction in a minute and a half. Two cars pass in her direction by the end of a minute plus video. That’s NOTHING. Throw a bike or two in there and the prevailing speed drop back down to something closer to RR’s pace. Heck, under those conditions you see a lot of joggers in the road too sometimes.

It’s silly to me to defer reflexively to your own detriment (even if it’s infrequent, it’s still easier to ride straight than merge right and left) because there ~might~ be someone coming up behind you eventually. Someone who can trivially get around you at that. When things are thin, YOU are the traffic. And that’s ok, even if you’re not “at least going the speed limit” (breaking the law) or whatever such nonesense motorists have in their head as a requirement to be deserving of lane space. Some motorists get this already and are pretty nice. Some have to be taught. Unfortunately RR came across the latter.


rainbow dog

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Mar 20 2014 at 8:30am #

Let’s agree to disagree. I ride a lot, on the road, during the rush hour, I don’t avoid the traffic, and I can count on one hand the number of times I got honked at or buzzed. My riding philosophy is based on common sense, awareness of the road and respect for others, not on slogans taken out of context and applied indiscriminately.

If the above situation happened during the rush hour, with a steady flow of back-to-back traffic, I would’ve undoubtedly taken the left lane because I would be riding at more or less the same speed as the rest of the traffic, and it would be difficult to switch lanes.

If that were a two-lane road, I would’ve taken the lane without hesitation.

However, taking the left lane on a four-lane road on a Sunday afternoon when the right lane is empty is obnoxious in my book. Especially so in scant traffic. If would take 10 seconds to maneuver over to the right, let them pass, and then switch back. It would be a courteous thing to do. It would not aggravate the driver. It would not perpetuate the hostility towards cyclists among the general non-cycling population.


salty

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Mar 20 2014 at 8:47am #

The true moral of the story (as quizbot will tell you) is don’t post videos here unless you enjoy victim-blaming and being told what a terrible cyclist you are.


RustyRed

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Mar 20 2014 at 8:50am #

salty wrote:The true moral of the story (as quizbot will tell you) is don’t post videos here unless you enjoy victim-blaming and being told what a terrible cyclist you are.

Amen, Salty.
Aaaaaa-fucking-mmen.


RustyRed

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Mar 20 2014 at 9:26am #

Normally, I will get over to the right, between parked cars when traffic is heavy and we’ve only got one lane in both directions, but not on a low traffic day AND there’s plenty of room to go around me.
I’m glad some of you have the ability to deftly weave around parked cars, I sometimes don’t… especially on hills. Some of you may not know I’m a middle-aged arthritic woman who’s slow and still a bit wobbly at times. I’m not dodging and weaving around parked cars in a situation where it’s not warranted.

Like the older gentleman using a walker or the mother pushing a stroller and holding the hand of her toddler and taking longer to cross the street than we would like, we need to be patient with them. Just as there are pedestrians with varying degrees of abilities, the same applies to cyclists. That mother shouldn’t drag her child quickly across the street so she doesn’t inconvenience a driver for a few extra seconds, nor should I overextend my rickety joints going up a hill so Miss LA Fitness can get to that light a few seconds before me.


edmonds59

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Mar 20 2014 at 9:36am #

^@Salty – semi-lol. Now I kind of feel like getting a camera and recording some of my rides so I can find out what I’m doing wrong [searching for the "sarcasm" font on my keyboard].


jonawebb

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Mar 20 2014 at 9:43am #

RustyRed wrote:I’m a middle-aged arthritic woman who’s slow and still a bit wobbly at times.

Nice job, though, working your way around the cars at the stop light to grab that lane again. I guess you were feeling especially spry at that point, eh?


Benzo

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Mar 20 2014 at 9:48am #

My take is that if the driver is behind you, it’s just so much easier to be surprised by their actions. If someone is an ass to you, at least it’s better that you keep that ass is in front of you where you can keep an eye on them and you can tell if they are going to do something dangerous or stupid again.


Mikhail

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Mar 20 2014 at 12:34pm #

C’mon guys, video started at Stainwix.
Stainwix-Chancery way — 180-190 feet or less than 70 yards. After Chancery cars are parked. You go 10-11 mph and is about 5 yards/sec or you cover it in 14 seconds.

Chancery-Market — 200 feet. Also less than 70 yards.
Market-Woods — around 500 feet and in the middle again cars are parked all the way to Woods with some interruption for garage entrance.
Woods-Smithfield — around 580 feet, cars are parked all the way.
Smithfield-Cherry — about 300 feet
Cherry-Grant — about 300 feet.
And I don’t see anywhere free right lane for more than 70 yards. No 200 yards.


ajbooth

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Mar 20 2014 at 12:40pm #

rainbow dog wrote:ajbooth – what focking lane are you proposing to consistently take? The leftmost? That was a four lane road. The whole right lane was empty.

I would propose taking the lane she took. I’m not sure what video you were watching to say that the whole right lane was empty. It’s not. In fact, there were cars parked in the right lane at the point in the video where the driver buzzed her. Switching back and forth between the right lane and the left to accommodate parked cars is inconsistent and unpredictable. TWO cars passed her in the entire duration of the video, so traffic was clearly very light.

I may not have done the filtering and passing the car again after the light changed, although in the heat of the moment, I understand the desire to do so.


RustyRed

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Mar 20 2014 at 1:01pm #

jonawebb wrote:

Nice job, though, working your way around the cars at the stop light to grab that lane again. I guess you were feeling especially spry at that point, eh?

I’ll go with the adrenaline if you think that was spry. I did mention before that I regretted getting back in front of her. That was super dumb on my part. Adrenaline.
I *can* thank her for enabling me to get a killer 15 minute workout in after we parted ways.


rainbow dog

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Mar 20 2014 at 1:22pm #

ajbooth wrote:
I would propose taking the lane she took. I’m not sure what video you were watching to say that the whole right lane was empty. It’s not. In fact, there were cars parked in the right lane at the point in the video where the driver buzzed her.

We don’t know from the video how long the driver has been following her for. There was ample room to let that one car pass. Again, in my opinion light traffic is an aggravating factor against RR’s case, not a mitigating one. I would think twice before switching lanes in heavy traffic, but it’s hard to justify not doing so when the traffic is light. All it takes is one frustrated driver.

Anyway, this is turning into beating a dead horse. Implying that a cyclist might be in the wrong on this message board is like saying there is no god. Sorry for not holding hands and chanting kumbaya.


jonawebb

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Mar 20 2014 at 1:29pm #

@rr, I’d missed your earlier regret, sorry. In that case, I’m pretty much OK with your video. I would have ridden in the right lane at the beginning, but that’s a judgment call, based on the limited field of view of the video, and we’re only talking about 10 seconds anyway. My interpretation of the earlier part of the video was being colored by what you did at the light.


byogman

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Mar 20 2014 at 3:13pm #

We don’t know from the video how long the driver has been following her for. There was ample room to let that one car pass. Again, in my opinion light traffic is an aggravating factor against RR’s case, not a mitigating one. I would think twice before switching lanes in heavy traffic, but it’s hard to justify not doing so when the traffic is light. All it takes is one frustrated driver.

The car had ample room to pass regardless, there was absolutely no traffic coming the other way. If they didn’t and got frustrated that’s on them. You didn’t address the parallel parking analogy from before where motorists make other motorists wait or go around so I have only one way of understanding pre-emptive cowering… the idea that the roads really aren’t for us, we’re just using a little bit if that’s ok with everyone. If you’re feelings on the subject are different let me know, and explain your reasoning, because I REALLY don’t get it at the moment.

As for the wisdom of being out there in the middle of the lane… in general you’re more visible out there and that combined with the fact that there’s so much space makes it a clear winner in my book. Yeah, it’s possible to annoy someone and you may be slightly more likely to be buzzed, but you’re much less likely to be flat runover by someone who you think you’ve negotiated the merge with, but isn’t actually paying attention you were out of their field of visual attention by riding to the right earlier and they’re not paying all that much attention generally, so the 2 or 3 seconds you’ve been in lane in front of them isn’t for your presence to register.

Anyway, this is turning into beating a dead horse. Implying that a cyclist might be in the wrong on this message board is like saying there is no god. Sorry for not holding hands and chanting kumbaya.

There was a video posting, someone who was slapping mirrors of vehicle partially blocking the liberty avenue bike lane. That guy did not fare so well in the comments. But most have a motivation to share video that shows others being jag-offs and paints them as the grown-up, so that’s most of what you see. I actually say, props to RR for showing the whole sequence, including the 3rd act. We’re all human out there, and adrenaline does funny things.

I could share some video that would, appropriately, net me much more criticism… filtering, weaving, cheating light after light etc… But I don’t, because I’m a weanie who doesn’t like criticism. Also, that’s not how I ride most of the time, but like I think with many, it also depends on my mood and how much time that behavior nets. RR in this video by comparison is a saint, even with the 3rd act.


Marko82

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Mar 20 2014 at 5:20pm #

Hey, Viking ride this Saturday…


ajbooth

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Mar 20 2014 at 8:39pm #

rainbow dog wrote:Anyway, this is turning into beating a dead horse. Implying that a cyclist might be in the wrong on this message board is like saying there is no god. Sorry for not holding hands and chanting kumbaya.

I’m sorry if reasoned discussion is beyond you. If the horse is dead, stop pounding on it.


Mikhail

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Mar 20 2014 at 8:47pm #

rainbow dog wrote:We don’t know from the video how long the driver has been following her for.

What? Are you serious? You never rode Blvd of Allies in that direction?


rainbow dog

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Mar 21 2014 at 7:08am #

ajbooth wrote:
I’m sorry if reasoned discussion is beyond you. If the horse is dead, stop pounding on it.

I explained my reasons repeatedly. However, it seems like everyone is sticking to their opinions. Peace.


rainbow dog

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Mar 21 2014 at 7:19am #

Mikhail wrote:

rainbow dog wrote:We don’t know from the video how long the driver has been following her for.

What? Are you serious? You never rode Blvd of Allies in that direction?

All the time, and I stand by my statement.


pinky

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Mar 21 2014 at 7:24am #

New dangerous driver in Crafton.

Red Chevy full-size pickup, probably mid-90s. Passed me yesterday (3/20) morning by speeding directly into oncoming traffic, almost running another car off of the road. Occurred on Crafton Blvd, at the corner of Josephine.

Same Red Chevy full-size pickup passed me yesterday afternoon while laying on the horn and flipping me off. Driver is a white male, short hair, tan Carhardt jacket.

Passed me this morning (3/21) while laying on the horn, driving a different vehicle (Red full size work van). Too dark to see driver, but it was at the exact same time and location as yesterday’s morning incident. I firmly believe it’s the same driver with a work vehicle.

All three incidents in the same area. I have video of all three. I will be filing a police report tomorrow.

Will share the plates once I pull them off of the videos.


rainbow dog

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Mar 21 2014 at 7:27am #

byogman wrote:

The car had ample room to pass regardless, there was absolutely no traffic coming the other way. If they didn’t and got frustrated that’s on them. You didn’t address the parallel parking analogy from before where motorists make other motorists wait or go around so I have only one way of understanding pre-emptive cowering… the idea that the roads really aren’t for us, we’re just using a little bit if that’s ok with everyone. If you’re feelings on the subject are different let me know, and explain your reasoning, because I REALLY don’t get it at the moment.

There is no way to parallel park without slowing other traffic behind you. Which was not the case in the posted video. I don’t think it’s a valid analogy.

As for your statement that “the roads really aren’t for us” – well they are not there just for us, which seems to be the prevailing line of thinking among the warrior cyclists here. Sharing the road means being aware of other road users.


byogman

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Mar 21 2014 at 10:46am #

There may be no way to parallel park without taking up the lane and holding up those who choose to stay behind, but there are plenty of ways to PARK without taking up the lane and holding up those who choose to stay behind. Use parking lots.

So, yes, I think the analogy fits perfectly. And no, I don’t think too many motorists pine for their fellow motorists when parallel parking. Some may feel stress because they suck at parallel parking (that would include me) and prefer parking in lots, but there isn’t this notion that it’s something you should feel guilty about.

And it’s not like there aren’t plenty of lots downtown and someone really has to go out of their way to make that choice. Still, everyone accepts street parking as a normal thing. Why? Because it involves cars. But then someone on a bike? Occupying space?! Why for sure, THAT’s something to feel guilty about. And when there’s no traffic? Why, that’s not better, that’s worse! No, I don’t get it.

The streets are for us. And by us, I mean us as citizens, regardless of the sort of street legal vehicle we choose. And yes, I try and be nice about sharing lateral road space so as to avoid holding up faster traffic when there’s a safe way for me to do so. But there was plenty of road to go around here, so it’s totally inapplicable line of reasoning. You don’t have to be a “warrior cyclist” to ride in a way that’s convenient and pleasant to you when you’re out on the road practically by yourself. There was no “war”, what RR went through was more link a terrorist bomb threat.


RustyRed

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Mar 21 2014 at 11:17am #

pinky wrote:

All three incidents in the same area. I have video of all three. I will be filing a police report tomorrow.

Will share the plates once I pull them off of the videos.

Cripes. Hope you’re able to get him off your back soon.


salty

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Mar 21 2014 at 12:05pm #

rainbow dog wrote:
I explained my reasons repeatedly. However, it seems like everyone is sticking to their opinions. Peace.

yes, how dare anyone aside from you stick to their opinions when yours is clearly the only correct one. you should throw a little tantrum to make sure everyone knows how right you are.


Mikhail

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Mar 21 2014 at 12:41pm #

rainbow dog wrote:

Mikhail wrote:

rainbow dog wrote:We don’t know from the video how long the driver has been following her for.

What? Are you serious? You never rode Blvd of Allies in that direction?

All the time, and I stand by my statement.

Then I don’t understand how your phrase “how long the driver has been following her for” — it could not be long at all.


byogman

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Mar 21 2014 at 12:47pm #

It’s totally unfair to call that statement a tantrum.

To me, his reasons don’t seem solid given the circumstances. A few, me most determinedly, undercut them, I think successfully. But if rainbow dog doesn’t see those arguments or analogies as relevant, then there IS nothing more to talk about. Agree to disagree, because they’re no other agreement in sight.

BTW, Marco… aghhhh. So sorry.


Mikhail

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Mar 21 2014 at 1:04pm #

byogman wrote:Agree to disagree, because they’re no other agreement in sight.

It’s more philosophical… Some of us see themselves as a part of traffic, some of us see themselves as holding traffic.


jonawebb

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Mar 21 2014 at 1:40pm #

Mikhail wrote:Some of us see themselves as a part of traffic, some of us see themselves as holding traffic.

I definitely see myself as part of traffic. But I choose to behave more kindly to motorists than they do to me, usually. And that means acknowledging that I am slower than motorists and getting out of their way, if I can do so safely.


Mikhail

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Mar 21 2014 at 2:00pm #

jonawebb wrote:

Mikhail wrote:Some of us see themselves as a part of traffic, some of us see themselves as holding traffic.

I definitely see myself as part of traffic. But I choose to behave more kindly to motorists than they do to me, usually. And that means acknowledging that I am slower than motorists and getting out of their way, if I can do so safely.

Well, bicyclists are generally slower than cars — this is true. But getting out of their ways in this particular case means that driver did not have any other way to go through. And she had plenty of space to correctly bypass RR. If their is a lot of traffic and there is no way to pass me while I am biking then I would “dive” into freee space and let car pass me. If there is no traffic then I would not do it in situation like RR was in. 60-70 yards are not enough to justify for me shifting to free space.


byogman

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Mar 21 2014 at 2:38pm #

Pinky, good luck with the police. Real a-hole, needs to be punished. Even more luck if it makes it to trial, getting the legal system to make it stick. Sigh…


pinky

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Mar 23 2014 at 12:12pm #

Wow. Reviewed the videos. It was three separate vehicles, but identical behaviors.

I’ve saved the license plates and videos in case I run into any of them again, but I don’t feel like I have much of a case to take to the cops right now, especially since I only saw the driver in one incident.

I’m not sure if I’m:

A) Encouraged that I’m not being harassed by one jagoff
B) Sad that three different people drive that badly and aggressively
C) Worried that one jagoff who has access to three vehicles is harassing me


rainbowskies

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Mar 23 2014 at 1:53pm #

Two weeks ago riding down E. Carson St in the middle of the week. Was in the bike lane till it disappeared and then stayed as far right as possible. Unfortunately I came up to a bus that would stop frequently to pick up/drop off passengers. After the second time I signaled, moved over and got into the line of traffic where traffic had stopped due to a red light. Well, a guy in a car came up behind me and I heard him yell, “Share the road!” Guess he was pissed because I was in front of him in this line of traffic. So I yelled back, “Do you have a problem because last I saw, the bike icon on the street is right in your lane so if you like I can ride all the way down E. Carson in front of you.” Then I said, “I tried to stay as far to the right as I could but the bus made that impossible so give me a break!” After the light I went back to the right but I really wanted to just ride down the street with traffic. :p


ericf

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Mar 24 2014 at 4:51am #

byogman wrote:I could share some video that would, appropriately, net me much more criticism… filtering, weaving, cheating light after light etc… But I don’t, because I’m a weanie who doesn’t like criticism.

You, and 99% of the cyclists in the world. There are certain affordances that we all feel justified in taking advantage of, it is part of being unhindered by the steel cage. You can see more, and are more maneuverable. That is until the camera is pointed at you, nobody wants to be told they are wrong. If you do something that makes you feel embarrassed or guilty, then you probably shouldn’t have done it in the first place.


ShooFlyPie

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Mar 24 2014 at 9:26am #

rainbowskies wrote:Two weeks ago riding down E. Carson St in the middle of the week. Was in the bike lane till it disappeared and then stayed as far right as possible. Unfortunately I came up to a bus that would stop frequently to pick up/drop off passengers. After the second time I signaled, moved over and got into the line of traffic where traffic had stopped due to a red light. Well, a guy in a car came up behind me and I heard him yell, “Share the road!” Guess he was pissed because I was in front of him in this line of traffic. So I yelled back, “Do you have a problem because last I saw, the bike icon on the street is right in your lane so if you like I can ride all the way down E. Carson in front of you.” Then I said, “I tried to stay as far to the right as I could but the bus made that impossible so give me a break!” After the light I went back to the right but I really wanted to just ride down the street with traffic. :p

After the bike lane ends on Carson I never hug the right. You are 100% legal to ride in the middle of the lane. My first 3 months of cycling the city is when I had majority of all my close encounters because I was timid and hugged the door zone inviting close passes and begin doored. Then I started riding in the lane unless I was going much slower than traffic such as up hills. Once I pass 7th street I ride about 2 feet from the sidewalk up to 10th street bridge. I allow cars enough room to pass if there is not traffic coming the other way. These three blocks I typically go about the speed of traffic and can get passed closely by some impatient driver who needs to get to Jacks to relieve his shakes. Otherwise I am typically cycling the speed limit and they have no reason to pass. Once I get past 10th I am in the middle of the lane, absolutely will not cycle on the right in the door zone. Especially on Carson where most cyclist are doing the speed of traffic even on a lighter traffic day. There is no reason for a South Side meathead to make you feel bad for being in the lane on Carson.


salty

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Mar 28 2014 at 10:18pm #

Headed down Beechwood towards 5th this morning, I was nearly done in by someone making the “left” onto Reynolds. I did a panic stop – not my best work, I locked the rear wheel hard. It would not have been enough – there is no doubt that if the driver had not stopped she would have hit me, or I would have t-boned her. I ended up stopped in front of her vehicle; I yelled something and got a dumb “what did I do?” kind of look in return… but then decided to just ride away (possibly after calling her a jackass).

A coworker stopped me in the hall later at work and told me they were behind me and saw the whole thing… so I guess at least I would have had a witness.

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