BikePGH!

Liberty Ave to get a Green Bike Lane!

This topic contains 47 replies, has 25 voices, and was last updated by  scott 1 yr, 2 mos.

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quizbot

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Feb 5 2013 at 4:38pm #

Any more details?

“The green bike lane on Liberty Avenue will be paid for with a $23,000 grant from Bikes Belong. The lane will be painted green in an effort to increase the lane’s visibility and improve safety.”

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3429337-74/bike-pittsburgh-friendly#axzz2K3xi28k6


Marko82

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Feb 5 2013 at 5:25pm #

I always think of this when I see green lanes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZJ–IPg7Hs

Edit: Hmm, link wont work. It’s a muppet movie clip.


pbeaves

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Feb 5 2013 at 5:34pm #

interestingly the big giant headline reads “$135,000 for bikes”, yet the actuall amount to be spent is $23,000 with the lion’s share spend on education (probably tv commercials.)

can’t wait to read the p-g feedback on this one.
#facepalm

but on the plus side, drivers will know where to aim …. where to avoid the bikes.


rice rocket

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Feb 5 2013 at 5:35pm #

can’t wait to read the p-g feedback on this one.
#facepalm

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stefb

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Feb 5 2013 at 5:48pm #

Have you seen how quickly the paint has worn off of liberty inbound between the intersection with the Bloomfield bridge/main street and 40th street? Hoping a color painted on the ground will make a difference and I hope this new paint doesn’t come off as quickly. This is great news though.


Astrobiker

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Feb 5 2013 at 5:59pm #

Excellent news.


Pierce

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Feb 5 2013 at 6:09pm #

It would be nice to know how much it costs to paint the regular lines in the street for comparison or the cost of car/bike accidents where the green bike lane is going for comparison


rachel_ding

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Feb 5 2013 at 7:07pm #

Yay! I’m excited about this.


salty

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Feb 5 2013 at 9:09pm #

The paint will last longer if they stop the f#n cars from driving on it… But this is super cool!


TeamDecaf

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Feb 5 2013 at 9:19pm #

Can a painted lane be safe to ride on? Is that a common thing? I usually avoid painted areas as they seem slippery.


Elmo

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Feb 6 2013 at 9:12am #

@TeamDecaf – I was curious about this as well. Google yielded me this.

http://www.ccwlawyers.com/blog/2011/10/san-francisco-repainting-green-bike-lanes.shtml


Mikhail

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Feb 6 2013 at 9:35am #

@Elmo Sand is much better than just paint. But it wears out quickly if cars drive on it. :( Colored asphalt is a target!


StuInMcCandless

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Feb 6 2013 at 9:46am #

I would hope that the contractor — and the spec-writer — do their homework and realize that Pittsburgh is hardly the first place on the planet to do this. I do not know if an industry-wide best practices document has been written, but if we can figure this out, so should those who are closer to the action.

I guess I’d start with Steve Patchan. If he isn’t it, he would know who knows.


gg

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Feb 6 2013 at 10:38am #

I also avoid paint on wet days. Not a fan of this idea, but if they add sand, it probably will be okay. I have added sand to paint for this reason and it works very well as far as foot traffic, but the sand has to be very evenly spread. If you miss a little spot, you will go down like a sack of potatoes. I personally would rather see money spent on painting white lines on free for all roads, like up through the zoo and down Butler Street from the zoo down to Lawrenceville. I hate free for all roads and the occasional idiot that makes it a 4 lane highway behind me as I am trying to ride my bike.


cburch

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Feb 6 2013 at 11:26am #

Paint isn’t an issue in the wet. Thermoplastic is. The trick is being able to tell the difference in traffic, at speed, with crap falling from the sky.

One wild place is a clusterfuck and is going to need a lot more engineering than a simple white line or two.


Benzo

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Feb 6 2013 at 11:58am #

I feel like I’m daft, but I couldn’t figure out where on liberty they plan to put this. Liberty spans from downtown to shadyside. Does anyone know where the green lane is actually going to be placed?


erok

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Feb 6 2013 at 12:10pm #

this is right around the bloomfield bridge, where there is the crossing (outbound) onto the bridge ramp.

also, this came from a grant from bikes belong to specifically do green lanes, so it’s not like the money could be used for anything but green lanes. or to put another way, it’s not taking money from other projects


Benzo

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Feb 6 2013 at 12:15pm #

Awesome. I hope it will deter some people from casually using the bike lane as a bypass for outbound traffic waiting at the light to turn right on to the bridge.


Elmo

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Apr 30 2013 at 11:28am #

via twitter from @infinitebuffalo

Where exactly is this — I don’t recognize this intersection.


ajbooth

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Apr 30 2013 at 11:34am #

Base of the Bloomfield Bridge, heading into town.


buffalo buffalo

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Apr 30 2013 at 2:18pm #

Elmo wrote:Where exactly is this — I don’t recognize this intersection

Inbound Liberty at Ella—Shursave is on the right, Del’s just out of the picture on the left; the dark brick building in the middle-left background is BBT. The truck in the middle-right background is on the cutover from Liberty to NB Main St.

(The picture is actually from p.leon, btw.)


Elmo

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Apr 30 2013 at 2:44pm #

Thanks — now it makes sense.

Very excited for this. Will make Liberty a much more bike friendly place and hopefully prevent cars from taking up precious bike lane space.


erok

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Apr 30 2013 at 4:16pm #

here’s some context:

http://bikepgh.org/2013/04/30/liberty-ave-bike-lanes-going-green-at-the-bloomfield-bridge-and-main-st-intersections-in-bloomfield/


cburch

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Apr 30 2013 at 4:22pm #

can we get retractable teeth like in fancy surface lots? weighted for say a thousand pounds of pressure. that would keep the jagoffs out of the lane…


quizbot

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Apr 30 2013 at 7:35pm #

This is really awesome to see. Is the green paint retroreflective? It looked sparkly from the outbound lane on the way home tonight. Will give a closer look tomorrow.

Hoping they take that nice fresh white striping down to 38th and back… the lane really needs some definition after the winter & wear.


byogman

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Apr 30 2013 at 7:50pm #

Something that makes me want to take a ride on liberty.
Well I never.


erok

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Apr 30 2013 at 7:53pm #

quizbot – this crew is only working on the green bike lane. please 311 the striping.


cburch

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Apr 30 2013 at 8:27pm #

I’ll test the retroreflectivity thing later tonight.


stefb

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Apr 30 2013 at 9:11pm #

It didnt seem to be retroreflective. There was only a small area done and it looked sparkly.


cburch

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Apr 30 2013 at 9:20pm #

grit for grip!


Benzo

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May 1 2013 at 7:27am #

I did put in a 311 ticket for striping between the bridge and 40th for what it’s worth. That was about a week or two ago.


Vannevar

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May 2 2013 at 9:11am #

(posted on FaceBook too, sorry for a cross-posting fauxpas)

Since I’m a fair approximation of the mythic “LCDEU” (lowest common denominator end user), I have a question about the new Liberty Avenue green bike lane WHICH I LOVE.

What does a green bike lane signify?
Does it have any legal status? Mandatory, Wishful, Aspirational?
Can a driver use it if they want to? What law says No?
Would a driver get a ticket for using it? What would be the offense?
How is a Yinzer supposed to know what this new green thing is?
Where is the education / communication campaign?

Shirley they can’t believe, “If we paint it things will change?”
I figure if I don’t get it, probably lots of folks don’t get it and I don’t need to be using it with one set of assumptions while Driver Joe has another set.

Anybody got facts? Thanks in advance. V.
—–
Not trolling. I just really don’t know what that green thing means. I also understand that the instant (or the season) of change is bumpy, and so you build one, brief it, explain it, build another, and in three years half the people will understand it. But for me, today, I have no idea what that green thing means unless it’s March 17th. so I wouldn’t be trusting it


rsprake

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May 2 2013 at 9:42am #

Someone from Bike PGH correct me if I am wrong. Because of the way that intersection is designed — like a highway off ramp — it gives drivers an extra cue to look twice before they turn across the lane.


scott

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May 2 2013 at 10:24am #

Yep, that’s it. It just adds much more visibility to the bike lane especially in “conflict” areas where cars are moving across a bike lane.


Vannevar

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May 2 2013 at 10:33am #

So, a car driving across the green bike lane isn’t breaking any laws? (other than the way our parents taught us to behave)


buffalo buffalo

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May 2 2013 at 10:34am #

I’m also curious about this–I know there’s a statute that says if a bike lane exists, cyclists can’t ride on the sidewalk, but I know of no others offhand regarding bike lanes…


Elmo

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May 2 2013 at 10:49am #

Good overview article about SF and Portland areas – http://www.mercurynews.com/traffic/ci_20567909/green-bike-lanes-spreading-across-bay-area

Highlights:

- A report found that 92 percent of motorists now yield to bicyclists compared with 72 percent before. And, perhaps more significantly, 87 percent of drivers now slow down compared with 71 percent before.

- “We noticed that motorists making the right turn from southbound Scott to westbound Monroe tended to drive in the bicycle lane (too soon), but after installation, that behavior was completely eliminated,” said city traffic engineer Dennis Ng.

Also thought this was cool:

Green paint is also being used to outline what are called “bike boxes” in an attempt to eliminate right-hook crashes. Those occur when a driver races ahead of a bicyclist and at the last moment suddenly veers into the bike lane to turn right.

This puts a bicyclist who has the right of way at great risk of slamming into the side or rear of the turning car and is a leading cause of bicycling deaths when a vehicle is involved.

At red lights, only bicyclists can stop in the boxes. Vehicles must line up behind them. When the boxes are green, more seem to know the rules.


scott

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May 2 2013 at 10:49am #

Vannevar, no car can ever drive along (on top of) a bike lane as if it were a car lane, but of course cars can cross bike lanes to make turns unless otherwise noted. Check out the design in person and it will make sense.


byogman

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May 2 2013 at 7:15pm #

I love the fact that this is so bright it looks photoshopped.
Checked it out today and it’s not any dimmer in person.


Vannevar

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May 2 2013 at 10:07pm #

Scott, I do appreciate the answer.

I get the intent, and I don’t mean to be pedantic – but what is the legal authority that says, Cars Can’t Drive There? Is there some legal basis for “no car can drive on top of a bike lane”?

It’s wonderful to have this paved green bike lane. I get the goal of increased visibility and raised consciousness.

But it’s not authoritative, is it? Here’s part of the reason I’m chewing on this. Portland Finds Bike Boxes May Double Crashes.

Seems counter-intuitive, but when Portland painted bike boxes at 11 intersections that were problems for right-hook crashes, the number of crashes doubled. Initial analysis suggests that bicyclists emboldened by the painted boxes were cruising through stale green lights and overtaking cars that right-hooked them, whereas the green boxes were designed to prevent right hooks as red lights first turn to green.

Clarity and definition can be important as a new thing is introduced. I love the green bike lane, I just want to know what it really is.

Compliments to all who brought us this great new thing.

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