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Please comment on Bakery Square 2.0 bike/ped connections

This topic contains 38 replies, has 12 voices, and was last updated by  ieverhart 1 yr, 2 mos.

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scott

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Oct 4 2012 at 3:23pm #

http://bike-pgh.org/blog/2012/10/04/comment-on-preliminary-plans-for-bakery-square-2-0/


salty

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Dec 7 2012 at 3:26am #

I’d comment on the blog post but it seems like no one will see it at this point.

Anyways – great news! I saw a copy of the updated BkSq 2.0 plan and the bike path along Penn is staying. I think the comments that everyone made on the blog post had an effect, so that’s awesome.


Benzo

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Dec 7 2012 at 5:37pm #

Well, it does look like ‘bakerysquare’ posted on the comments as recent as nov 28th.


salty

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Jan 9 2013 at 8:41pm #

Updated Bakery Square 2.0 plan: https://www.box.com/s/39njewj4z7c3egdhpa6h


rsprake

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Jan 9 2013 at 9:21pm #

Looks good to me.


scott

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Jan 10 2013 at 1:31pm #

Looks really good. Thanks to everyone who weighed in. Walnut Capital listened and adjusted the design to gel with the community’s requests.


sarapgh2

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Jan 10 2013 at 2:37pm #

Really cool! Wish those guys at Buncher could get their heads out of their a##es and do something like this. Oh wait, it will never be profitable to consider biking and the environment in a large development plan, I forgot…


dmtroyer

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Jan 10 2013 at 3:04pm #

is that a 2-way cycle track on or just off of penn ave?!


Pseudacris

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Jan 10 2013 at 4:05pm #

Salty, thanks for posting that update: I did not know about the last meeting or I would have made every attempt to attend.

The new design is much clearer and I definitely see some thoughtful improvements, especially where stormwater is concerned.

My lingering question/concern is with the connection between Bakery Square and the bike lanes on Beechwood/Reynolds. It still appears cut off. Will the existing trail through Mellon Park be maintained and the entry kept free of cars? I’m referring to the trail that connects Putnam with the Mellon Park Rec Area parking lot.


rsprake

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Jan 10 2013 at 4:37pm #

To be fair that isn’t really a trail. The connection looks to happen from the Penn Ave path and the “public streets” street. Also looks like a connection could happen right where it is now.


Pseudacris

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Jan 10 2013 at 4:47pm #

My hope is to avoid using Fifth Ave or its sidewalks to get from the end of Beechwood to any point on the new BS2 bike infrastructure.


rsprake

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Jan 10 2013 at 5:28pm #

At the very least you can just ride through the park to the Penn Ave path.


dmtroyer

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Jan 10 2013 at 7:39pm #

page 21 of the powerpoint mentions a 2-way cycle track on or adjacent to Penn ave.


Pseudacris

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Jan 10 2013 at 7:59pm #

^yeah, saw that.

But Penn does not touch Beechwood.

rsprake has answered my question, more or less.

sounds like the route will be less direct, but still available by taking the curvy path that runs from the rec area parking lot towards Penn., then cutting back to the new bike/ped path. I’ll see if I can make an image to ‘xplain…


salty

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Jan 10 2013 at 8:11pm #

Pseuda – you didn’t miss the meeting – it’s next Wednesday, they just sent us the slides in advance (and said it was ok to distribute them). From the same email:

“We are having a community meeting on January 16th at 7:00pm at the Calvary Church (corner of Walnut and Shady) in Shadyside to show our plans for “Phase One” which is basically the new apartment building and bike path.”


salty

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Jan 10 2013 at 8:15pm #

And, I’m also concerned about that connection since I use it twice a day, although I think Ryan is right that might not actually be changing. Isn’t the “public street” on the right side really just Putnam St. now? It would be nice to be sure of that.

And, I’d love to see the status of those things raised to actual “trails”. It’s unclear right now if they are or are not (although the “official vehicles only” signs they put up a few months ago argue that they are trails). They certainly don’t get any maintenance.


Pseudacris

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Jan 10 2013 at 8:20pm #

EXAMPLE, currently when I want to get from Reynolds Ave to the Shadyside business district (i.e. Walnut St), the YELLOW line is how I cut through the “Great Northeast Passage.” My understanding of the revisions is that PINK would be the new path, unless the “ramp” at “A” is kept free of parking.

Salty, thanks for the meeting info, I should be able to make that.


Benzo

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Jan 10 2013 at 8:58pm #

Now, If we could get that bikeway parallel to penn ave extended all the way to center ave / penn circle south, this would be ideal (even to shady ave would be great, actually to both ends of shady ave bordered by 5th and ellsworth)


rsprake

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Jan 10 2013 at 9:16pm #

I added the meeting to my calendar. I will be there.


Steven

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Jan 10 2013 at 10:59pm #

It looks to me like there could still be a path that doesn’t require going to Penn. This is from slide 7. The green line is the existing zig-zag, also visible in the original drawing. The red line heads down Putnam Street into that white area in the lower right, a new Ellis School parking lot, and then takes a sidewalk to cut over to the bike/pedway.

Maybe that short segment of sidewalk could be made wide enough to share with cyclists? On the other hand, the Ellis School might not want cyclists riding through their parking lot.


Anonymous

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Jan 11 2013 at 1:03am #

You guys are good at reading these plans. The drawing above showing the red line is somewhat accurate, except that we are planning a dedicated path along side of the parking lot to connect the main spine bike path to the new street.


Pseudacris

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Jan 11 2013 at 2:51am #

Thanks, Bakery Square person!

Can you tell us, in the screen grab of the google map above, if cyclists will be able to cut through Mellon Park from Putnam precisely at the point labeled “A”?

Currently there is a dirt path, but it is often illegally blocked by cars. Will your plan have that access point blocked by *legally parked cars?


Steven

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Jan 11 2013 at 12:23pm #

Good question! The existing Mellon Park path (green) heads directly into what slide 7 seems to show as an on-street parking spot. I suppose they could either move the path to enter the new Putnam Street at a nearby spot where there’s no parking (in blue, aligned with what I think must be the dedicated path in red), or put up candlesticks on that particular parking spot on the green line to block it off.

I guess the city would have to let them move the path from the green line to the blue one, since it’s in the park. I think there’s also an elevation change that might be a problem. But it sounds like the BkSq folks are on top of all this.


Anonymous

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Jan 12 2013 at 1:30am #

With respect to the Mellon Park questions, this is really a City issue. I think the bike community can talk to Steve Patchan with these suggestions. It seems to me that the City should have some money to “upgrade” the paths through the park to connect to the new routes we are creating.


Pseudacris

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Jan 12 2013 at 2:49pm #

Bummer for your bike riding tenants who want to make use of the amenities just east such as the small but charming and upscale restaurants on Reynolds, the outstanding vet and medical office, the gardens and gallery in Mellon Park, not to mention the Frick museum, park, and cafe.

Would you consider siting an ADA curb cut at point A, which woould allow easier bike access to all these gems of the east?


Anonymous

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Jan 12 2013 at 10:49pm #

I ran this route this morning. We will work it out. We will work with the City to improve the route from the end of Beechwood through Mellon Park to Bakery Square. Should not be a big deal to get this done.


Pseudacris

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Jan 12 2013 at 10:55pm #

Awesome, thank you! Hopefully jogging through there helped clarify that detail. Much appreciated that you took the time!!!


rsprake

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Jan 16 2013 at 10:20pm #

Bump. 7:00pm at the Calvary Church (corner of Walnut and Shady) in Shadyside.


dmtroyer

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Jan 17 2013 at 2:49am #

howditgo?


rsprake

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Jan 17 2013 at 2:39pm #

I will try to summarize. There were more than a few NIMBYS but a lot of support for bikes and the “Northwest Passage.” It sounds like they value the connection and have planned well to include bikes in the plan.

There were 50 chairs set out and there were a lot of people standing. My estimate for attendance is over 70.

  • Bakery Square will manage the bike path through the property
  • There will be a connection from the baseball field as there is now
  • The “Northwest Passage” will be closed during demolition but some access will remain. They will make their best effort but safety is their goal.
  • Residential parking will be underground at almost a 1-1 ratio of spaces to rentals
  • There is still plenty of space left in the 850 space garage so no new garage is planned
  • Apparently federal funding has been approved for Penn Ave light timing through the area and into Wilkinsburg. There seemed to be some confusion there.
  • There were a few NIMBYs, one woman said the lack of through access was “scary” and asked if this has all been approved by fire and rescue.
  • A Point Breeze resident was concerned about parking overflow and BS’s answer was residential permit parking.
  • A few people mentioned lack of outreach to surrounding neighborhoods but there were neighborhood associations in attendance.
  • One woman asked about two car families. BS’s answer was that their research told them that people who would want to live there would be car light and use public transportation and bike/walk. She didn’t believe that and asked where they would park their cars. BS’s answer was in addition to the underground garage they could use the under utilized parking garage across the street.


Pseudacris

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Jan 17 2013 at 6:56pm #

Good summary by @rsprake. I will add just a few of my own observations.

-I think access to the path that connects BS2 to Beechwood via the baseball field is something we need to keep nudging both the city and Walnut Capital on, since it requires cooperation between the two. If you live/work/shop in Bakery Square and need this little connection to the Beechwood bike lanes, please make sure your voice is heard by both Walnut Capital and the City.

-Bill Peduto was in attendance

-Phase 1 is apartments with an excavated parking garage and the main spine of the north/south pedestrian and bike path (minus landscaping). The armory will be razed and the excavated material from the apartment site will be used as infill to expand a sports field @ Ellis. Ellis does not have funding in place to finish the field yet, so it will be a pile of rubble for a while.

-The project is being done in Phases and it will be important to continue to attend meetings, since the Phase 1 apartments are already pretty different than what you see in the drawing above.

-”NIMBYs” from Pt Breeze explained that they are already experiencing a lot of new overflow parking from Chatham’s complex @ Fifth & Penn and are worried it will increase.

-Neighbors on Thomas Blvd are already trying to petition for residential parking permits.

-A Friendship resident I was sitting next to made a private comment to me that his neighborhood gets a ton of overflow parking both from restaurants like Salt and Verde, and from people who park there for free then walk, bus or take shuttles to campus or the hospitals. I think Pt Breeze NIMBYs have legit concerns, but its yet another headache caused by CARS CARS CARS.

-RE the federally funded Penn Ave traffic signals: I though Peduto mentioned they would incorporate parts of Center and Baum somehow. Cameras on those intersections count traffic and adjust timing using algorithms. (not sure if they see/count bikes or peds and didn’t think to ask).

-More restaurants are coming to BS1. For the time being only office and residential is planned for BS2 in part because BS1 already has a underutilized parking garage. BUT, this thing is getting developed and approved in phases, so keep showing up to review each phase if you have concerns abut this project.

-I am impressed & pleased with the new additions of stormwater management that include landscaped bioswales. Hopefully the goldfinches that live in the trees and thistle behind Rizenstein will come back once the dust has settled.


Mick

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Jan 17 2013 at 10:30pm #

@ rspake Residential parking will be underground at almost a 1-1 ratio of spaces to rentals

I’m not exactly pro-car or anything, but my guess is that won’t provide space for even half the cars.

If it was all efficiencies and one-bedrooms, I’m guessing there would be many more 2 car couples than no-car households. “Almost 1:1″ wouldn’t be enough.

If the rentals are multi-bedroom, then then 2:1 might – or might not – cover it.

That’s just my guess. If I lived close and wanted car parking on my street, I’d be concerned.


salty

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Jan 18 2013 at 3:35am #

Thanks rsprake and pseuda for going to the meeting. I was riding home right around 7 and had this internal debate about whether to go but in the end my couch won out :(

But, since I see those guys around the office I’m happy to talk to them (and ask our facilities manager to talk to them) about that connection. I use it every day, quite a few of my coworkers do as well, plus a lot of people here, and I see plenty of people I don’t know there as well. It really is a pretty vital link.

It is sad that “waaaaa cars” seems to be the theme of the day. It’s good to hear that the BkSq guys are holding the line on that. If “The High Cost of Free Parking” wasn’t so expensive I might bring a pile of copies to pass out at the next meeting.

I can tell you from experience there is absolutely nothing about the signals on Penn/Penn Circle that is even vaguely pedestrian friendly. I am not happy to see this “technology” spreading.

BTW, one thing I was curious about is: what will be the fate of the trees along Penn Ave? I fear I won’t want to know the answer, but maybe not?


Pseudacris

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Jan 18 2013 at 4:09am #

1) you don’t want to know about the trees on the BS2 property.

I think the ones on City property will stay unless the city had a reason to take them down.

2) I live in the neighborhood adjacent to Penn @ S Braddock. The new light there is very pedestrian unfriendly and in fact we are having meetings in our neighborhood and with Regent Square to address major speeding and ignoring of crosswalks on South Braddock, Penn and other streets, not to mention broken promises by private schools about trafic and crosswalk monitoring. CARS CARS CARS


Pseudacris

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Jan 31 2013 at 3:49pm #

Topping this thread since it sounds like Putnam is going down for construction.


erok

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Feb 1 2013 at 11:01am #

Just got this email:
attached drawing which shows what we plan to do when we close the Reizenstein property for demolition. The yellow line shows the new path we will be creating (along the property of the Village of Shadyside) that will permit access to and from Penn Avenue. We will be closing the current route due to demolition of the armory buildings and the school. We will be putting down a crushed limestone path that should be good for cyclists.

Feel free to distribute this on your web site. We will be posting signs directing people as well. It should happen one day next week.


erok

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Feb 1 2013 at 11:06am #


ieverhart

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Feb 1 2013 at 5:10pm #

On the bright side, people will probably not be parked illegally on Putnam Street so much while it’s closed.


ieverhart

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Feb 4 2013 at 10:54am #

FYI. I just got this invitation to their groundbreaking ceremony.

———
Groundbreaking Ceremony for Bakery Square 2.0
February 14th from 9:30a.m. to 10:30a.m.
Join the developers of Bakery Square, Walnut Capital, the RCG Longview Fund, Mayor Ravenstahl and community representatives for the official Groundbreaking Ceremony of Bakery Square 2.0.
Bakery Square 2.0 is a mixed-used development in the heart of Pittsburgh’s East End which will combine green innovation, spectacular living space, and commercial development along Penn Avenue.
Light refreshments will be served in a post-ceremony reception.
Please meet in the designated tent located outside of Coffee Tree Roasters at Bakery Square. Free parking is available in the garage on property.
http://www.bakery-square.com | 412-683-3810

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