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There are about a dozen or 2 people who post regularly to this board

This topic contains 66 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by  ericf 1 yr.

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ericf

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Nov 27 2013 at 7:23pm #

If you want this to be your own sandbox, guess what? It is not!
This board is a great resource that the “dirty dozen” are squandering because they don’t like the way people play.
I have repeatedly and respectfully asked the chosen few to stop threadjacking, but they refuse. I refuse to waste this resource with your petty bickering,so I HAVE PRODUCTIVELY STARTED THIS NEW THREAD FOR YINZ TO AIR YOUR DIRTY LAUNDRY.

edit:
BTW: Some of you may feel targeted, that is on purpose. DEAL WITH IT.

  • This topic was modified 1 yr ago by  ericf.
  • This topic was modified 1 yr ago by  ericf.

cburch

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Nov 27 2013 at 9:45pm #

Pot meet kettle.


Vannevar

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Nov 27 2013 at 10:49pm #

man ain’t nobody got time for that


helen s

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Nov 28 2013 at 7:42am #

I must be part of this “dirty dozen.” Unless it’s just 2, then I am sure I do not qualify.
Why would anyone try to air out dirty laundry? I always put up my laundry to dry after I wash it.


Ahlir

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Nov 28 2013 at 11:04am #

… and a Merry Thanksgiving to you too!


jonawebb

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Nov 28 2013 at 11:57am #

Hey, let’s hijack this thread and make it for Thanksgiving! I’m grateful for the GAP completion, BikePgh, and Tag-o-Rama!


gg

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Nov 28 2013 at 12:52pm #

ericf wrote:This board is a great resource

It is a great resource because there are folks like Stu, Mick, scott and some others make it great. Tips they give. What is going on around the city. There are always some folks that want to hate an outsider. Sort of like if you show up at a Harley Davison meet in shorts and flip-flops as I did once many years ago. I then realized those freedom seekers weren’t my cup of tea. Thankfully this place has a fairly eclectic group. Some come on here for information and to help others and some may come on here to bully or think they are cute to each other. I generally read who is doing the writing prior to reading to save time. If Stu writes something, I read it for example. Hope he doesn’t mind me using him as an example. There are many others that are helpful. At the end of the day, we do have something in common. We cycle in Pittsburgh. We probably want the same thing. Safer and better cycling around here.

Hope everyone has a nice Thanksgiving. I am thankful that there is a place that cyclists post in our region and like that they provide information that can be quite valuable and provide more safety to us.


Vannevar

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Nov 28 2013 at 3:33pm #

I am thankful for the board and the participants. I find this an alternative to homophily. I get good things to think about and I’ve had my mind changed here. And, there’s less contention than family dinners and holidays.


Ahlir

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Nov 28 2013 at 5:10pm #

Relative to the world out there, this board is an oasis of calm and good manners. And it does a great job of self-regulation.

If you’re wondering about the real thing, check out /b/ chan.

But, wait, why am I posting here just now? The turkey is due out in 75 mins; the side dishes are still to be prepared. And the table… it’s not set!
Answer: I needed a break. Also, I need a gluten-free butternut squash recipe (which, amazingly, I managed to find). BTW, Is gluten the 5th horse-person of the Apocalypse? It’s all so confusing…

So let me just wish you a Joyous Thanksgiving and say that I’m looking forward to reading your future contributions.


edmonds59

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Nov 28 2013 at 6:19pm #

Omg I love butternut squash. I would much rather that than “sweet potatoes”.


Marko82

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Nov 28 2013 at 6:22pm #

@ahlir, I made an acorn squash (plus apple, butter, br. sugar) side dish that I found wonderful. Of course I opted for ham over turkey – dang I probably should have done a brisket.

And the sand feels warm and welcoming on the toes!


Ahlir

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Nov 28 2013 at 6:24pm #

Me too.
But one of the guests is bringing a sweet-potato casserole.
The recipe I found dictates a tempura-style deep fry. We’ll see.

The big problem with most (winter) squash recipes is that they need the oven, at a temperature different from that needed for the turkey. So, no oven for my squash.

I did make a seitan “turkey” (blech) once and it co-existed in the oven with the real turkey in some way that I don’t quite recall. Unfortunately the world moved on, and the (gluten-laden!) seitan turkey is no longer kosher (so to speak).


cburch

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Nov 28 2013 at 9:24pm #

i think i ate 15 different kinds of starch tonight. i’m currently searching for a 16th.

PO-TA-TOES!!!!!


Ahlir

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Nov 28 2013 at 9:52pm #

Success! The tempura-style butternut deep-fry worked!
People even volunteered that it tasted good.

Other than that, we failed in getting any good arguments going. Steelers (wha?) Rand Paul? (idiot). Sigh. I need a more diverse set of friends…


Swalfoort

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Nov 29 2013 at 9:08am #

I am proud to be one of those two dozen people. And, I find the Bike Pittsburgh message board to be one of the most useful tools out there for communicating with other cyclists. There are only a couple dozen active users, perhaps, but lots of other people lurk (or in this case, participate ore passively.) Many out of towners have commented on the usefulness of this message board. Many Pittsburgh expats (or whatever you call the folks who move away from Pittsburgh) mention that they miss the message board tremendously.

I’s a forum….it permits and encourages dialogue. In my experience, it self monitors itself pretty well. Threadjacking does occur. So start a new thread bring it back to the original discussion, if necessary. Those threadjacks are occasionally amusing, and often bring to light important new issues and observations.

Hang in there ericf……. we value all participants.


byogman

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Nov 29 2013 at 9:56am #

As usual, swalfort gives the nicest and most constructive answer humanly possible. I too, am a proud member of the dirty dozen (or two).

I really would like to see broader participation and am open to constructive suggestions. This is not it.

Conversations wander, internet threads more so. ALL internet threads. To bring a conversation back on the rails is a positive. Swalfort nailed it here.

To throw a hissy fit about thread wandering shows an inability to play with others (ironic given the complaint) and a fundamental ignorance of a medium pre-dating the web, in fairly wide use all the way back to the 1980s (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet).

I will throw in a fun quote from the wikipedia article for yinz, just a nice image to start your day:

“Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with diarrhea. Massive, difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a source of mind-boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect it.”

— Gene Spafford, 1992

Enjoy everyone :)


RustyRed

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Nov 29 2013 at 9:58am #

cburch wrote:i think i ate 15 different kinds of starch tonight. i’m currently searching for a 16th.

PO-TA-TOES!!!!!

Hey, I don’t want to get off topic here, but Colin: nice bobblehead. That dude always freaked me out.


Drewbacca

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Nov 29 2013 at 10:39am #

Glad we are all in the holiday spirit! :)


stefb

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Nov 29 2013 at 11:31am #

Vikings


edmonds59

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Nov 29 2013 at 12:11pm #

What Swalfoort said.
I view this forum as more of an online cocktail party than a seminar. Someone throws out a topic, meandering discussion occurs, useful information arises out of the discussion. Only occasionally do the police need to be called. There are other forums available where thread wardens rigorously keep the discussion linear and on-topic. I find those distinctly uninteresting. This place seems to be more about the living of biking more so than the gears of it, and that’s where I want to be.
I find it sad when excessive bickering occurs just because it may drive away new and more interesting people than the “dirty dozen”. I want to hear more diversity. I can figure out the technical ways of doing things all on my own, I don’t need to come here. I want to hear about people.
The gg/hcurtis thing is getting a bit tedious. As jonawebb said, no offenses recently, so maybe that piece of luggage is best left on the conveyor belt. I’m confident that the site administrators are capable of dealing with it if and when it comes around again.


Drewbacca

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Nov 29 2013 at 12:42pm #

edmonds59 wrote:The gg/hcurtis thing is getting a bit tedious. As jonawebb said, no offenses recently, so maybe that piece of luggage is best left on the conveyor belt.

The gg incarnation has been much better behaved than hcurtis. None the less, this entire thread is a direct result of my linking back to the thread that gg brought up regarding bike theft in E.Lib. I fail to see where that thread was ganging up or “pounding into the ground.” I stayed out of the gg/hcurtis debacle until gg walked into his own trap. I see nothing wrong with calling attention to it. Beyond that, I could care a less that he is here; he has no less a right to be here than me so long as he remains civil ( sybil?).


ericf

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Nov 30 2013 at 3:54pm #

Swalfoort wrote:There are only a couple dozen active users, perhaps, but lots of other people lurk (or in this case, participate ore passively.)

Swalfoort wrote:Hang in there ericf……. we value all participants.

@Swalfoort,
Thank you for the sensical response. I understand that this is the internet…a forum…a subset. I also realize that there are many lurkers, who are afraid to post here, even though they may have pertinent questions, or valuable information to share, because of the not so subtle “clique” that exists here, along with all of the schoolyard behavior that the word implies.
I acknowledge and accept all of that, and would simply like to offer this thread to those of you who know who you are.


Pierce

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Nov 30 2013 at 4:22pm #

I’m thankful none of us have killed somebody due to negligent driving


Ahlir

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Nov 30 2013 at 6:05pm #

@ericf: You should never feel that you can’t participate in a message board. People may seem a bit sharp at times, but that’s just the nature of the medium (and there’s a fair amount of literature attesting to this). Ignoring slings and arrows is just part of what you’re expected to do; it’s not personal. Really.

This board used to grade people based on the number of their contributions; habitual yakkers could work their way up to the top rank of ‘Bogon’ (I think that’s what it was, but I forget). And, yes, I managed to scale those heights. Thankfully the most recent site revamp did away with that scheme.

In any case, this really is an amazingly friendly bunch, in context.
Just be glad we’re no longer in the usenet era. What a nightmare that was…


jonawebb

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Nov 30 2013 at 6:06pm #

…so far as we know.


Ahlir

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Nov 30 2013 at 8:14pm #

Not exactly sure what @jonawebb meant, but back then I had to deal with virulent racists who left me sick to my stomach and who would not give up (I even tried to appeal to their employer, to no avail). I had an employee who was caught browsing child porn by the IT people, and was fired as a result. (And, confusingly, he did good work.)

It was not a good time on the internets, and I’m glad we can avoid it today. Not to say those things don’t exist today, but back then that’s a whole lot of what it was all about.


jonawebb

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Nov 30 2013 at 9:43pm #

My joke was supposed to come after the comment on negligent driving. Ah timing.


salty

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Nov 30 2013 at 10:07pm #

Fwiw, I don’t know that the internet has become any better… For instance:

http://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2013/sep/30/chvrches-lauren-mayberry-online-misogyny?CMP=twt_gu

http://t.co/EWouS9apoM

http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/miss_america_why_racism_thrives_online_20130916

You don’t have to do much more searching to find more examples.

That aside, the people on this board are very well behaved and very accepting of new people overall. I’ve been here for a few years now (starting from absolute zero – I knew no one at all) and I have seen a lot of people come and go (unfortunately a lot have been on the “go” side lately which is definitely sad to see). The few people I’ve seen complaining about cliques, etc. have been exactly the people who have been trying to cause trouble, express hateful ideas, etc. I think this board is very accepting of differing opinions and views, it’s just very unaccepting of assholes.


ericf

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Dec 1 2013 at 6:10am #

Ahlir wrote:@ericf: You should never feel that you can’t participate in a message board. People may seem a bit sharp at times, but that’s just the nature of the medium (and there’s a fair amount of literature attesting to this). Ignoring slings and arrows is just part of what you’re expected to do; it’s not personal. Really.

I personally do not feel that way. I have no problems participating on this board.
When people hijack a thread without apology, or without offering to make a new thread, even as a joke, it makes a statement about that group. It says to me that they have no consideration for opinions that differ from their own, and they will resort to childish tactics in an attempt to keep those different opinions off of “their” message board.
For me, this type of internet bullying is frustrating at most. For others, it will most definitely stop them from ever posting.
As I stated previously, this board is a great resource and all I am asking is for a bit more thread policing. If you want to go off topic, by all means do so. Just start another thread.


Pierce

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Dec 1 2013 at 11:31am #

I thought jonawebb’s comment was either to my post or alluding to some kind of usenet matrix that we didn’t know we were in


Ahlir

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Dec 1 2013 at 5:34pm #

The best antidote to stuff you don’t want to hear is to click on the scroll button (or equivalent). There are people on this board that I tend not to read, but I don’t mind them being here.

Yes we have threads, but I always thought of them as notional: the title denotes the start of the conversation. Most threads wander off in some (more or less) unpredictable direction. But this is the essence of conversation. And most of us don’t mind; we just stop reading the threads that start to bore us…

If you feel that a particular line of discussion needs to continue along its original topic I would simply start another thread with a suitable title. If people want to continue, they’ll contribute. If they don’t, the thread will end up with just your contribution (“1″). I’ve had some of those but I didn’t really get offended. Conversational gambits are like that.

[Note]
Yes the internets are full of creepy stuff you really don’t want to know anything about (e.g., I read a story just the other day about yet another cannibal hookup on a German message board. Now I’m even more afraid to ask a German friend what it all means.) But you don’t have to deal with it unless you look for it. In the old usenet days there was just that one system for everything, so things were harder to avoid.
[/Note]


jonawebb

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Dec 1 2013 at 7:38pm #

@Ahlir++


StuInMcCandless

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Dec 1 2013 at 8:53pm #

It is a bit of a downer that participation has dropped off in the last few months. A year or two ago, I would say we had 50 daily participants, and another 50 who chimed in fairly often, maybe a couple times a month. We do get new people, but I sense that flow has dropped off, too, and that doesn’t bode well.

I really hope we haven’t become a clique. Sure, the couple dozen of us know one another, which does lend a familiarity to the conversations, and with fewer people in the conversations, there does tend to be a higher degree of familiarity. Do we have familiarity-breeds-contempt situations? Perhaps, in a few cases, and maybe that’s what triggered this conversation, though I’d like to think it isn’t the case.

While I try to avoid being a pollyanna, I do try to contribute positively to any conversation. And that’s where I will leave this.


ericf

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Dec 2 2013 at 6:13am #

Ahlir wrote:Yes we have threads, but I always thought of them as notional: the title denotes the start of the conversation. Most threads wander off in some (more or less) unpredictable direction. But this is the essence of conversation. And most of us don’t mind; we just stop reading the threads that start to bore us…

When I am having a face to face conversation that wanders off topic, I have no problem with redirecting, or being redirected, to keep the conversation focused. There have been otherwise informative discussions ruined by threadjacking, animated gifs, and other childish behavior.
If a thread already exists, why should anyone have to stop reading a thread, and start another because people feel the need to interrupt a conversation with their b.s.? The normal thing to do would be for those who are causing the thread to become “boring” to go and start their own discussion, without interrupting the rest of us.
The search functionality of this website is weak to begin with, keeping threads on topic is one way that users can help with that problem.


ericf

Private Message

Dec 2 2013 at 6:20am #

StuInMcCandless wrote:It is a bit of a downer that participation has dropped off in the last few months. A year or two ago, I would say we had 50 daily participants, and another 50 who chimed in fairly often, maybe a couple times a month. We do get new people, but I sense that flow has dropped off, too, and that doesn’t bode well.

I really hope we haven’t become a clique. Sure, the couple dozen of us know one another, which does lend a familiarity to the conversations, and with fewer people in the conversations, there does tend to be a higher degree of familiarity. Do we have familiarity-breeds-contempt situations? Perhaps, in a few cases, and maybe that’s what triggered this conversation, though I’d like to think it isn’t the case.

While I try to avoid being a pollyanna, I do try to contribute positively to any conversation. And that’s where I will leave this.

Familiarity is not the issue that led to this conversation. I understand that people ride together, hang out, and even converse on this board.
The clique behaviors I am referring to are when people repeatedly interrupt an existing thread instead of starting their own thread, or when they blatantly threadjack in order to stifle opinions other they don’t agree with.


jonawebb

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Dec 2 2013 at 8:15am #

ericf wrote:I have no problem with redirecting, or being redirected, to keep the conversation focused.

It is pretty easy to do that here, politely, by saying something like “Back to –topic–, has anyone ever noticed that…”

ericf wrote:The search functionality of this website is weak to begin with, keeping threads on topic is one way that users can help with that problem.

It is hard to find information here but I think that is mainly because long discussions aren’t that easy to pick out information from. You can use Google’s tools to do that, but what we really need is a place to put information that we want to persist, such as a Biking in Pittsburgh Wiki. There could be a page on favorite routes, which could be incorporated into the BikePgh map when it gets updates, a page on license plates of dangerous drivers, and so on. It would be a useful addition to this message board.


reddan

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Dec 2 2013 at 9:20am #

but what we really need is a place to put information that we want to persist, such as a Biking in Pittsburgh Wiki. There could be a page on favorite routes, which could be incorporated into the BikePgh map when it gets updates, a page on license plates of dangerous drivers, and so on. It would be a useful addition to this message board.

That’s a fine idea indeed.


StuInMcCandless

Private Message

Dec 2 2013 at 9:53am #

It would also help to have a sticky thread that introduces the board itself. We’ve made do for years without, and I’ve scribbled some ideas for doing that without it being overly boilerplate, TL;DR, whatever.


cburch

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Dec 2 2013 at 10:14am #

so you’re mad that Stef derailed her own thread for about 4 posts still? in the middle of a page and a half derailment to talk about mirrors and lane position? seriously man. we don’t need board police. get over it.


Drewbacca

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Dec 2 2013 at 10:16am #

reddan wrote:That’s a fine idea indeed.

It is. Should it be part of the bikepgh site or a separate wiki site? A good start would be a separate thread to discuss ideas, list the FAQs, etc.

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