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Truck with logo of blond woman sought by Pgh Police

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edmonds59

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Dec 12 2012 at 3:45pm #

Wow, it just won’t stop.


cburch

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Dec 12 2012 at 3:53pm #

Good trolling doesn’t require so many words. Grrrrrr I’m tuff! Moron.


Anonymous

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:04pm #

One of the first lessons taught to me in driver’s ed (in Chicago) was to never, ever use courtesy signals or yield your right of way unexpectedly. This sounds harsh or selfish but it really helps to protect other road users. Think of the case where someone is turning left into a driveway with two or more lanes of opposing traffic. If a driver in one of the opposing lanes (lets say the left-most lane) stops to let the turning car proceed, most drivers would hit the gas and complete the turn without fully checking the other oncoming lanes. Often other cars won’t stop just because one does in another lane. Why? Because that guy stopped in the left lane could be just some jerk trying to turn left without signaling and chances are you can’t see the car in the opposing lane trying to turn left until it’s too late.

Crosswalks pose a similar problem. Since cars are to yield to peds, they are obligated to come to a stop. If one driver stops, the ped may begin to enter the crosswalk without checking the other lanes. If other drivers don’t know why the first car stopped and can’t see the ped, bad things happen.

This is why signals are so important for crosswalks. A crosswalk on a busy road without a traffic control device (stop sign, or traffic light) is a deathtrap.

Of course I have no idea if this is relevant to what happened to this person, but I wouldn’t be surprised if one person abided by the law and yielded while others didn’t. Please, always check ALL lanes before proceeding when someone yields for you.


erok

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:06pm #

And it’s only when I voluntarily join the cycling ‘community’ and interact with it that I am subjected to this kind of behavior. Ironic, isn’t it?

Funny, this messageboard has been around for 6 years and there’s never been this level of personal attacks until you voluntarily joined the cycling ‘community.’ Ironic, isn’t it?


Anonymous

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:07pm #

Also, I heard that behind-the-wheel instruction is OPTIONAL in PA? Who ever thought that was a good idea?


cburch

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:10pm #

Plus the only “attack” was me calling you a jerk for a jerky reply. A JERK. HOLY SHIT!!!!! Everything else was just people disagreeing with you and you flipping out on them.


Pierce

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:24pm #

Val, to get back to your original point? and away from the seemingly pointless character diatribe,

What does the fact that you’ve seen people jaywalking have to do with this lady who was in a crosswalk? You can’t jaywalk in a cross walk that doesn’t have a signal. Pedestrians have the right of way. Cars should be yielding to pedestrians in crosswalks.

So far as finger pointing goes, it seems pretty clear cut there. Both cars should have yielded to the lady.

From 1990 to 2006, 2,275 people were killed in motor vehicle/transport accidents in our county

During the same period of time, 1829 people were killed in homicides

Where do you think the majority of enforcement is?

(http://app2.health.state.pa.us/epiqms/Asp/ChooseDataset.asp)

Can we not be pissed off that even in the face of seemingly obvious statistics, the police still focus their resources in places that result in little societal payoff?

(The largest cause of death by far is cardiovascular disease, but I’m not sure what the police can do to help there)


jonawebb

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:31pm #

I’ve noticed that Pittsburgh drivers seem completely oblivious to the crosswalk rules, BTW. In complete contrast to the situation in California, where I once put my foot into a crosswalk and had cars stop in both directions. Sorry. Pittsburghers will ease or even speed right on by someone halfway across. As everyone here knows, we need better enforcement.


stefb

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:38pm #

PTSD?

Val’s whole rant made me lol. hilarious and sad.


mr marvelous

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:38pm #

@Val all the people you named are really good people. I know them on and off this board and respect them. You are fighting against bullying by becoming a bully. You can fight and you can build. You have said sum awful things. I would like to see that energy put into building up your fellow cyclist. I don’t care who said it first be the bigger person and stop. We can all be friends here and you will probably like us all


stefb

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:41pm #

I just find it funny that he is so far off on everything. Dude has issues. I think he should come on a group ride sometime.


melange396

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Dec 12 2012 at 4:50pm #

“Until next time, keep up your pained, righteous indignation. Other Hipsters live for your bullshit!”

luuuuuuuuuulz! ironic self-loathing much? i bet val wears hornrims and waxes his moustache.

this shit is almost worthy of the banhammer


Anonymous

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Dec 12 2012 at 5:15pm #

Pierce, the ONLY thing I was pointing out was that secondary to the untimely demise of said pedestrian, a few people had all but convicted the police of eating donuts and watching in amusement as she was ran down like a dog in the street. City Hall, the economic rice bowl, blah, blah, blah…

I’m no cop and never will be, but my point was/is that UNLESS YOU WERE THERE, it’s no good to hype a situation and generate blame for people who may well have not had anything AT ALL to do with her very unfortunate death. Hell, according to the story, the truck driver wasn’t even aware that he’d hit someone.

I’m pretty sure that any responsible citizen who possibly could’ve prevented this from happening, would, if they were given the chance. I most certainly would’ve tackled her ass (and probably gotten sued for breaking her hip!) if I would’ve seen she was about to get killed. God bless her, she was probably thinking about getting to work on time, things she wanted to do for her family for Christmas, etc…

I have worked with Risk Management my entire life and one thing that’s almost always true, is that the first ‘report’ is almost always wrong and/or incomplete. And just because something’s in the newspaper doesn’t make it correct. Trashing people and the way they do their job based on partial, incomplete knowledge is fundamentally flawed and unfair, to say the very least. I also would be willing to bet that all those lazy cops out there working to make some extra money, are just trying to support their families like the rest of us.

Ultimately police take their orders from City Hall, and don’t just go out randomly deciding where and where not to enforce codes and statutes. I merely hold THE OPINION that it’s not their fault she’s dead. I’ve biked down there and it is indeed a hazardous place, for drivers/cyclists/pedestrians. Extra caution is called for, even when you have the law on your side; even when you’re using the crosswalk.

I believe when things went South was when I mentioned casually that in the two years I’ve been driving/biking/living here, that I see pedestrians (and drivers, too) doing whatever they want, in terms of crossing the street, interacting with other travelers of all modes. I even admitted that I, too, have been guilty of jay-walking or otherwise breaking the rules, and so have many cyclists I’ve personally witnessed. Apparently having a different opinion is verboten on this board, as you can tell from the enthusiastic responses I’ve received.

I absolutely love the cycling scene in Pittsburgh but there are definitely cities that managed to plan better, build better infrastructure for cyclists, etc. But it also seems like this organization and its supporters have been a strong voice for advocacy and that’s why I paid money to join; to support the effort.

I don’t have any idea where the majority of enforcement is, to answer your question. But judging from other big cities I’ve lived in, it almost always seems to be busy protecting the things that bring money to the city. And that is logical, and right.

I wish the lady and others like her didn’t die needlessly. I’ve worked on many people that got hurt in some sort of motor vehicle accident and the first thing that always ran through my mind was: damn it, this person didn’t have to be here, today… this is so unnecessary.

So for all the mad, angry people out there, I still think had she used a bit more caution, she would’ve seen the car that killed her and stopped. But she didn’t, and now she’s dead. it doesn’t mean it’s right or that I’m happy about it, I’m just being realistic about it. And shit-talking the cops doesn’t help, it doesn’t even make you sound or look smart…

And Pierce, thanks for maintaining an objective viewpoint. Dissecting these incidents and learning from them is so much more useful than just assigning blame and being reactionary.


edmonds59

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Dec 12 2012 at 5:19pm #

Banhammer is my new imaginary band. Thx!


chinston

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Dec 12 2012 at 5:31pm #

“UNLESS YOU WERE THERE, it’s no good to hype a situation and generate blame for people

[snip]

I still think had she used a bit more caution, she would’ve seen the car that killed her and stopped.”

Cognitive dissonance ACHIEVEMENT UNLOCKED


StuInMcCandless

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Dec 12 2012 at 5:43pm #

I’m learning to TL;DR Val’s posts. And I’m a pretty tough cookie to get irritated by people posting here.

If you can’t make a point in 100 words, you’re either trying to say too much, or do not know how to communicate. And in the wise words of Tom Lehrer, “If you really don’t know how to communicate, the least you can do is to shut up.”


Anonymous

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Dec 12 2012 at 5:48pm #

Stu, sorry if you have stretch marks on your frontal lobe, after laboring through all those paragraphs. I suggest if you don’t have time for all that reading, to stick to comics…


Pseudacris

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Dec 12 2012 at 6:01pm #

This message board is a bastion of dropouts from the Scorched Earth School of Friendship.

[edit] meaning, for the most part — regular posters are patient with each others’ differences and able to ride and talk about bikes together despite them.


edmonds59

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Dec 12 2012 at 6:06pm #

@ chinston = fab.


Steven

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Dec 12 2012 at 6:12pm #

Val, when things went south was not when you expressed a contrary view. It was when people criticized your contrary views and you then started calling them names, saying they were engaged in “histrionic behavior”, getting “huffy”, that people here need to “attend some group therapy, or maybe get that hysterectomy”, calling them the “know-it-all crew”, etc.

It was only after you made all those personal attacks in multiple posts that some people started responding with personal attacks in kind.

Val, please stop your name-calling and stick to arguing your position, if you can.


jonawebb

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Dec 12 2012 at 6:36pm #

They charged the truck driver: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/box-truck-driver-charged-in-strip-district-pedestrian-death-666010/


salty

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Dec 12 2012 at 8:35pm #

I don’t understand why the driver of the SUV that knocked her under the wheels of the box truck hasn’t been charged. It seems to me the former is at least as culpable as the latter, probably more so.


erok

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Dec 12 2012 at 8:45pm #

i was wondering too, my guess is that the box truck driver fled and is canadian (ie out of towner that will be harder to follow up with). the article didn’t say that the original driver wasn’t charged or won’t be charged. it just said that the box truck driver was charged.


edmonds59

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Dec 12 2012 at 9:25pm #

Granted, not having actually been there, obviously I’m not equipped to make definitive statements on the tragedy. But inexorably constructing the mess in my head; if the box truck was close enough to hit the woman as she came off the grill of vehicle 1, vehicle 1 was probably trying to speed through the intersection and beat the box truck, thus not seeing the woman. With the box truck going straight on Smallman, the driver should have been able to see the whole unfolding clusterf*k, the woman, the freaking SUV TURNING LEFT IN FRONT OF HIM, and slowed. Driver 3 shouldn’t have been so close to the box truck or going so fast as to not see a human body coming out from under a freaking box truck.

This woman was just a victim of a whole confluence of shit driving. In other words, a normal day.

My 2c, as they say.


salty

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Dec 12 2012 at 11:32pm #

edmonds, that sounds pretty spot on.

Also, assuming Ms. Kollar was headed south, the box truck should have been stopping anyways to let her cross. Agreed about driver 1 potentially hurrying to get out in front of the box truck, and possibly also looking right for traffic coming from that direction. The fact he admittedly “heard and felt a hit to the front of vehicle” implies he didn’t see her until after he hit her. But, I’m sure that will be treated as an excuse and not an admission of guilt.


Steven

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Dec 12 2012 at 11:59pm #

I don’t understand why the driver of the SUV that knocked her under the wheels of the box truck hasn’t been charged.

It sounds like so far they only charged the truck driver with leaving the scene of an accident. Perhaps the police are all done investigating that aspect. He was there, accident happened, he left.

On the other hand, charges for the other drivers might need to wait for accident reconstruction. Were some of them speeding? On the phone? Any more useful video evidence from nearby cameras, or perhaps toxicology evidence?

There’s no reason to charge them now if the police still have more to investigate. Once they know exactly what they can prove in court, they can pick the right charge.


StuInMcCandless

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Dec 13 2012 at 1:04am #

When the accident reconstruction experts get done, does their report become public? I suspect likely not until the case goes to trial (assuming it does), so it might be a while. I’m just curious; I don’t know.


Vannevar

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Dec 13 2012 at 1:14am #

If the truck driver is a foreign national and crossed the border, would he have to be extradited to participate in the process? If that’s the case (if) then charging him makes great sense. I suppose they deal with this a lot in Buffalo, etc.


Anonymous

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Dec 13 2012 at 1:39am #

It continues to amaze me that these horrific events are treated for the most part like unavoidable acts of nature. Contrary to the reporting, autonomous vehicles didn’t run over and kill this poor woman–drivers did!

I see people breaking laws all the time, regardless of their chosen mode of transportation–that’s neither here nor there. The fact is, the onus is on the people wielding mobile, one-ton weapons to slow the fuck down and maintain control of their machinery. That means observing conditions and giving themselves time to react to the unexpected so they can avoid killing people. In heavily trafficked urban areas? Double- or triple-Slow-The-Fuck-Down.


stefb

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Dec 13 2012 at 10:30am #

But people are in suuuuuccchhh a hurry and they are so important! How dare they be expected to obey laws! The laws and the safety of others will slow them down, and they don’t have to slow down because ‘Mercia and everyone else does it and everyone needs to get everywhere as soon as possible.

But seriously, people need to relax and stop stressing and think about other people for once. There is a lot that needs to change, and I am not just talking about law enforcement. People need to learn to be nicer and care about each other. They need better education. They also need more time off of work. Lack of time to relax contributes to stress and bad behavior sometimes.


edmonds59

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Dec 13 2012 at 11:48am #

One last thing occurred to me in tweezing apart the whole incident – if vehicle 1 was making a left turn from 14th on to Smallman, it’s likely that they were using 14th as a shortcut to the 10th street bypass to avoid the lights at Liberty and 11th. Again, the “rush” mentality contributing to the death. Left turns from 14th should be disallowed, or it should be made one way, something. Cutting through 14th for that move should be eliminated.

Last evening I had to drive from S. Side to Friendship at 6:30+-, which I almost never do. The experience was a 1/2 hr of the most horrible driving I have almost ever seen. Drivers in this city suck ass. Where the FFFF are the police?


Vannevar

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Dec 13 2012 at 12:45pm #


Anonymous

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Dec 13 2012 at 11:42pm #

@Pierce “You can’t jaywalk in a cross walk that doesn’t have a signal. “

On top of that — it’s25 mph road. if there is no snow or/and ice car should be able to stop instantly. And yes, both cars should stop.

“(The largest cause of death by far is cardiovascular disease, but I’m not sure what the police can do to help there)”

May be enforce a little bit more so pedestrians and bicyclist would not be afraid to walk/bike?


StuInMcCandless

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Dec 14 2012 at 10:46am #

bloggy (unfinished)


mark

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Dec 14 2012 at 3:03pm #

if the person who originally hit this woman is not charged with manslaughter then this situation is fucked. i’m not saying the box truck driver is innocent, but seriously there are lots of situations where when driving a big vehicle like that you just can’t see everything, and you concentrate on what is in front of you. the driver could have been being completely reasonable and had this woman thrown under his tire and not even seen her. the person who made a left turn to beat a box truck and wasn’t paying attention to human beings walking on the road needs a reality check in solitary confinement for a couple years.

if it turns out the box truck we being negligent, same goes for him. I can say that when i got hit in the suburbs in a very similar situation i go thrown about 15 feet perpendicular to the direction of the car that hit me, so this woman could have only had 3 steps off the curb and still ended up being thrown under that box truck in the other lane… when the box truck had to make the decision to either stop at the crosswalk or not the pedestrian could have not even been to the curb yet.


Anonymous

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Dec 14 2012 at 3:08pm #

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/hit-and-run-driver-strikes-pedestrian-in-oakland-666355/

Another hit and run. Not a cyclist, but pedestrian. Figured I might as well add it here instead of another thread, since it wasn’t a cyclist. Hope that is okay.


Swalfoort

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Dec 14 2012 at 3:16pm #

There was a pedestrian hit and killed in Greensburg this week too. Interesting that the news reports that “since the motor vehicle operator had the green light, no charges were filed against the driver.” I thought PA had a mandatory yield to pedestrian law. If a pedestrian steps out in the roadway, the vehicle operator is obligated to stop.

Was there another pedestrian accident this week too? In Butler County, or Washington County? I thought I remembered seeing news of a pedestrian accident on three consecutive days.


WillB

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Dec 14 2012 at 3:17pm #

I think it’s basically impossible to solve this problem by trying to get people to more cautious and considerate. I like edmonds59’s approach: identify the specific situations and behaviors that are leading to accidents and change the infrastructure to prevent them.

People drive like assholes all over the place, yet there seem to be certain locations that are most dangerous, like this stretch of the Strip. Although the immediate fault in this case is (most likely) the careless drivers, the real problem is that the City has failed to put adequate controls in an area with high car traffic AND high pedestrian traffic. The fact that there are basically no traffic lights to help people get from the parking lots to the offices on the other side of Smallman and Penn is crazy.


jonawebb

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Dec 14 2012 at 3:22pm #

While I very much agree with the need for infrastructure, the fact is that people in other states like California are a lot more respectful of pedestrians rights, and that must at least in part be the result of enforcement. Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh need to improve in both areas.


mark

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Dec 14 2012 at 3:33pm #

I think the real truth is that there are a bunch of self-centered jagoffs in pittsburgh who can’t comprehend the fact that ±2 seconds on their commute isn’t that big of a deal. no amount of infrastructure or enforcement is going to change the greater mental landscape about pedestrians in the city, but better advocacy might. this is why bike pgh exists, and it’s already done a ton to make it better.

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