BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

yeah true.

a bill went up a few months ago to pa congress, but it got shot down.

Catherine,

email or better yet, call your state elected officials to tell them your story and relate it to the cell phone bill HB 538 that didn't pass.

I know that Ferlo cosponsored the bill so he seems in favor, but it's still helpful for his staff to hear the story. Also call your state rep!

I fly for/with the Guard and also as a private pilot, so you ask what does his have to do with cell phones. When we fly we have one pilot, known as the non-flying pilot, talk on the radio and help run the checklists and the other pilot flys the aircraft. I do not negate that fact that the aircraft is going a lot faster and is somewhat more complex but except during the critical phases of flight (take off, landing and air-refueling in our case) we have a lot less to hit. If people do not think that talking on a cell phone distracts them from SAFELY operating a vehicle mistaken and risk their lives as well as others. A hands free option I do not feel is the answer either. I feel this option dose not elevate the distracting component that talking on the cell phone imposes on the operator

I believe Tom Vanderbilt's "Traffic" covers that specifically and sees no difference in the distraction factor between talking on a regular cell phone and on a hands-free phone. The issue is the disembodied conversation. That is, it's a measured difference between talking to someone who is in the car with you and talking to someone who is not there.

I agree. I see hands free as just a stepping stone to a full on cell phone ban while driving. But you're correct. All the studies out there show that hands free is just as distracting. Still, I'd rather have someone drive with two hands on the wheel than one.

It's odd. I was shopping last night on the phone asking my wife is she needed anything and i was getting in peoples way, running into things. I had to plop myself into a corner to finish the conversation.

To further play the role of devil's advocate...what about two people conversing/arguing in a car? Isn't there the same possibility for distraction?

I read somewhere (although not in Traffic, a book I highly recommend) that the effect of a cell phone is two fold. First the driver is distracted. Second, the driver's peripheral vision deteriorates, creating a "tunnel vision" scenario. The tunnel vision is reported to last for some period of time AFTER the cell phone conversation ends. (I remembered the source -- a book called The Unthinkable. Also a very interesting book.)

But, neither an in car conversation nor a cell phone conversation can hold a candle to the distraction caused by trying to TEXT in traffic. That should just plain be outlawed!

This is a report out of the UK:

Drivers who talk on a mobile at the wheel suffer from a lethal form of tunnel vision - even if the phone is hands free.

Scientists have discovered that talking on a mobile causes 'inattention blindness' which slows reaction time and cuts drivers' awareness of their surroundings by up to half.

The researchers warned that mobile users who believe they are driving safely because they have a hands-free kit are fooling themselves as it is the conversation itself which is distracting, rather than the way in which it is conducted.

Researchers monitored the reaction times, motoring style and performance of 110 men and women driving 40 miles in a simulator.

Talking on a hands-free phone reduced the amount of visual information they processed by about 50 per cent.

There was no difference between using a handsfree or hand-held mobile phone. 'You are impaired in both cases,' said Professor Strayer.

The researchers then used an eye tracking device to find out where the subjects were looking while using the simulator.

They discovered that, while the drivers looked at objects around them - including road signs, other vehicles and traffic lights (and presumably cyclists...)- as they drove, they could not remember seeing them if they were talking on the phone.

"Even though your eyes are looking right at something, when you are on the cellphone, you are not as likely to see it. This is a variant of something called inattention blindness.'

Drivers who were listening to music, audio books or talking to a passenger did not suffer the same problem, he added.

The research is published in the Journal of Experimental Psychology.

In my opinion, the possibility for distraction is much higher when you have to hold something in your hand, and sometimes push buttons on it, to have your conversation. I've seen dozens of people actually texting and using CrackBerries while driving.

Until I got hit by a car last fall while commuting, I used to ride to work down West Liberty Ave three to four days a week. I sat at the corner by the Liberty Tubes one night on my way home, and while waiting for the light, I counted drivers coming out of the Tubes (at 40-60 mph) while holding cell phones and talking. Well over 50%, several of whom were swerving from lane to lane. It is eye-opening, and a greater danger to cyclists than many other auto driver behaviors.

I agree completely about holding something. I'm curious if the study cited above did any further research as to why hands-free phones still caused tunnel vision, but a lively conversation with a passenger did not.

"It's odd. I was shopping last night on the phone asking my wife is she needed anything and i was getting in peoples way, running into things. I had to plop myself into a corner to finish the conversation. "

This is my experience, too. I can't do much of anything when I'm on the phone, which is why I try to avoid it as much as possible.

My instinct is that when you are talking to a passenger, that passenger is in the same space you are, and aware (or potentially aware) of the same things. Maybe, and I'm really rambling, when you are in a conversation, you try to project yourself into the other person's space. So when you do that over the phone, you take yourself out of the here & become detached and inattentive. But when you are talking to a person right next to you, you stay in the here and remain more focused on the road.

"Maybe, and I'm really rambling, when you are in a conversation, you try to project yourself into the other person's space. So when you do that over the phone, you take yourself out of the here & become detached and inattentive. But when you are talking to a person right next to you, you stay in the here and remain more focused on the road. "

This was what I was thinking, too.

But when you are talking to a person right next to you, you stay in the here and remain more focused on the road.

I'd venture to guess that at least part of the phenomenon is related to how many senses are engaged; sort of the reverse of "lose one sense, and the others sharpen", it's almost like "only have one active (hearing), and the others suffer".

When someone is next to you, you're using hearing, sight (at least peripheral vision), maybe touch, and even smell at some level to communicate. This keeps you more engaged; you don't need to compensate for lack of other input from the person by hyper-focusing on your hearing.

Pseudo-scientific B.S. with no basis in data, but it sounds vaguely plausible.

"It's odd. I was shopping last night on the phone asking my wife is she needed anything and i was getting in peoples way, running into things. I had to plop myself into a corner to finish the conversation. "

Look how people operate their shopping carts inside a store. What would ever make these people think they are qualified to talk on a phone and drive. The other day at the grocery store I turned the aisle and there were 6 people with their 6 carts all stopped pointing a different way in the aisle to a point no one could pass. I asked "what do we have a traffic jam and we are all talking about the milk, how wonderful"

i also think (in my pseudo science way) that when you're talking to someone in the car with you, they are often paying attention to the road as well, along with you.

they can help you with cues such as "look out" or "red light red light red light!!!" or, "Bike rider!!!"as well as not so obvious cues like tensing up, gasping etc.

also, when someone is in the car with you, they tend to stop talking if you get into a hairy situation where you need to concentrate. if that hairy situation occurs, you're also more likely to have both hands to help you through it.

Scott, thanks for the info re: bill #. I'll make sure it gets reported.

I too think that the hand-held vs. hands-free argument is totally bogus. Below is a link to a AAA Foundation report from December 2008 that categorically states as much:

http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/cellphonesanddrivingreport.pdf

My favorite part?

"In one simulator-based study, researchers used a driving simulator to compare the driving performance of drivers using hands-free and hand-held cell phones to drivers not using cell phones who were given alcoholic beverages until their blood alcohol concentration (BAC) reached 0.08 g/dL, the threshold for a 'driving while intoxicated' arrest in all U.S. states (Strayer, Drews, and Crouch, 2003). The study found that the reaction times of drivers using cell phones were slowed by 8.4% relative to drivers who neither had consumed alcohol nor were using phones, and that drivers using cell phones were actually more likely to have a rear-end crash than were drivers who had consumed alcohol after controlling for the difficulty and duration of the simulated driving task."

Based on this, and a multitude of other evidence, it's just incredible to me that a bill to rectify this situation would get shot down. What the f is wrong with these people, really?

its our freedom to talk on cell phones and endanger other's life. just like it's our freedom to drive a gas guzzling car without the gov't interfering in "fuel economy standards." i think it's in the constitution somewhere

sorry so sarcastic

What, were you saying something? I ran you over on your bike? Sorry, I was talking on my cell phone and didn't notice. I'll be more careful next time.

Seriously, I think that's what some people think.

the NYT just wrote an epic piece on this issue

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/technology/19distracted.html

I was riding passenger seat down liberty, and looked over to see a woman texting with one phone, and talking on another while driving. it was the most amazingly scary thing i have seen in a long time.

“When we ask people to identify the most dangerous distraction on the highway today, about half — correctly — identify cellphones,” said Bill Windsor, associate vice president for safety at Nationwide. “But they think others are dangerous, not themselves.”

this was the contet, sorry: And in a survey of 1,506 people last year by Nationwide Mutual Insurance, 81 percent of cellphone owners acknowledged that they talk on phones while driving, and 98 percent considered themselves safe drivers. But 45 percent said they had been hit or nearly hit by a driver talking on a phone.

thing on npr this am said that 86 people in the hospital recovering from injury that they sustained while being in an accident THAT THEY ADMIT THEY WERE AT FAULT for consider themselves above average drivers.

people are idiots

I just moved here from CT and I was there when they started the no cell phone while driving law. I really didnt think it was working there but after moving here and seeing all the assholes on there phones driving unsafe I could see that it really was makign a difference. I cant believe this hasent become a law every where yet. Does anyone remember when that guy in cali crashed a whole train and killed a bunch of people because he was on his phone. So what is gonna happen before this becomes a serious law. How many people are gonna get hurt or killed first?

cell phones dont kill people. people kill people. haha MAKE THE SHIRTS NOW!!!

Cell phone control is knowing how to dial.

you'll have to pry this cell phone from my cold, dead fingers

if cell phones are outlawed, only outlaws will have cell phones

At the very least there should be restrictions and education.

Another interesting article in the NYT today about highway safety and cell phones included the following comment:

http://community.nytimes.com/comments/www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/technology/21distracted.html?permid=38#comment38

paraphrased "cell phones make long commutes tolerable". So it's back to land use. Of course, that doesn't explain all the people I see who fire up the cell phone the instant they hop behind the wheel to run to the convenience store.

"cell phones make long commutes tolerable"

what does that say about the current state of radio

Of course, that doesn't explain all the people I see who fire up the cell phone the instant they hop behind the wheel to run to the convenience store.

Habit, quite likely. Speaking as an ex-smoker, one of the hardest triggers to break was that of driving; so much of driving is unconscious and instinctive, that any habits you regularly add to the mix (smoking, cell phone, eating potato chips, whatever) also become more of an unconscious need.

This morning, I stopped for a red light at Fifth and Halket. Nearly two seconds after the red, a cell-phoning woman driving a light-colored SUV blew right through it, despite the pedestrian in the crosswalk. I confess I screamed at her, though I doubt she heard.

Shortly afterward, I saw another cell-phoning SUV driver run a red light downtown (Smithfield and... 6th?), and one of the women in the crosswalk screamed at her.

If we can't get laws and enforcement, maybe social pressure will work? A friend of mine wants to set up a web site to record license plate #s of cell-phoning drivers, thinking that it might be useful for a plaintiff's attorney or an insurance company, in the event that the driver has a subsequent accident. I don't think it would be admissible in any kind of suit, but IANAL.

If we can't get laws and enforcement, maybe social pressure will work?

Doubtful...the number of drivers who would be swayed by the prospect of shame to change their behavior is slightly less than the number of drivers who will calmly respond "You're right, and I'm sorry" when being sworn at by an irate cyclist.

The idea of a idiot road user registry sounds like a tailor-made Twitter app...send an appropriately tagged tweet, and it gets logged in the bowels of some database somewhere.

did ya'll see this article in the NYT?

U.S. Withheld Data on Risks of Distracted Driving

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/21/technology/21distracted.html

Yeah. Best government money can buy.

I don't doubt at all what some of you were saying abou tlosing some of your sensory percpetion while being on a cell phone. I am a drummer and have done among other stuff like traditional drumset...hand drumming and drumcircles...one way to get beginers to be able to focus on what they are trying to play and learn new rhythms is to have them CLOSE THEIR EYES while learning....it is done intentionally to get the mind to *focus* on the feel and sound...having the third stimulus (even if watching the instructors hands) can be distracting and lead to more problems. So it very much makes sense to me.

If we can't get laws and enforcement, maybe social pressure will work? A friend of mine wants to set up a web site to record license plate #s of cell-phoning drivers

There's this site:

PlateWire

In Study, Texting Lifts Crash Risk by Large Margin

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/28/technology/28texting.html?hp

+1 to erok's hypothesis. We've been speaking to each other in cars for decades, and except in cases of sheer chaos (i.e., a car-full of teenagers) it hasn't proven to be a significant source of distraction.

As much as I abhor distracted drivers (especially as a motorcyclist... speaking of scary encounters with drivers), I make a point of not being militant with family and friends. Instead I take a passive approach to discouraging the behavior. If I find out I'm on the phone with them while they're driving, I tell them they can call me back if they want. If they insist it's "OK" (which they usually do) I'll let them control the cadence of the conversation. If I don't get a response for several seconds, I don't immediately jump in with "HELLO? ARE YOU THERE?" I think this form of social "pressure" is the first step. Make it OK to not use their cell while driving in the first place. Failing that, let them direct the conversation.

(Hypocrite alert: I do play with my MP3 player somewhat while driving. Though in my defense, radio does suck and Rt 28 is mind-numbing at any speed.)

as someone who failed to figure out the signs along freeport road inbound from blawnox, i must say, 28 is NOT mind-numbing at about 20 mph on a wednesday mid-afternoon. don't ask me why the signs for 28 point to the route you're supposed to take if you don't want to get on 28, but feel free to ask for pointers on how best to stay out of speeding automobiles' ways!

Sorry, I can't help you. I go Highland to W. Kittanning (for an internship).

as someone who failed to figure out the signs along freeport road inbound from blawnox

You too? I've done that at least three times.