BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

There had been a time when November 11 of 2011 was a completion goal (as in 11-11-11). But that date has come and gone. Negotiations continue, and are progressing, but still no definitive date.

If negotiations continue to go as planned, work should be taking place this summer with completion in the fall. May be in late fall.

Slightly on topic, but perhaps slightly off topic, is there a timeframe that Some People Might Expect the Sandcastle Gate to be open, for those who Might or Might Not traverse that parking lot?

I was out that way recently and it appeared that the fence and "go away" signage of the scrapyard had recently been increased, or was it just my perception? You have to get right against the tracks now to negotiate that gravel passage.

I assumed they added the new fencing and keep-out signage around the time they did that preliminary work near Keystone, partially removing the old RR trestle support and making a path over the top of the remainder. Don't know though.

In January somebody from Friends of the Riverfront posted on one of the trail groups that they planned to bid the Sandcastle trail work in March. I don't know if that included the Keystone section too.

But at that time they still hadn't found the funding to pay for everything.

I also heard the same that this particular section of trail still needs more funding and work might not even start to take place until fall,and that's if we're lucky. Might have to wait till 2013 for this section to be completed.

Here's question.

Work folks want me to donate to United Way. Is there a way to get my UW funds to go strictly to construction on this trail?

also interested in @mick's question

YMMV, but I don’t like donating money to umbrella organizations like United Way. They are well intentioned I’m sure, but all they really do is take a cut (usually about 15%) for administrative overhead before passing the money on to the next organization. Just donate to the intended organization directly to maximize the benefit of your donation.

Example: $100 donation to United way = $85 donation to American Cancer Society = $72.25 donation to actual research

I have no idea if United Way funds would go to trail building. I know most trails are a mix of (mostly) fed/state transportation enhancement dollars, larger non-profit foundations, and smaller trail non-profits. If you want to give to trail building, consider giving to the Regional Trail Corporation, which oversees acquisition and building of the GAP, or the Steel Valley Trail Council, which maintains that section of trail once it is completed.

You can give to Friends of the Riverfront and say where you want your money to go.

@edmonds59

I usually have to go pretty close the tracks because there always seems to be a big puddle.

A few weeks ago a train happened to pass pretty close to the time I was doing this, was a little scary

A few weeks ago a train happened to pass pretty close

I initially misread this as "a train passed me too closely", and was rather puzzled.

The train conductors need to be informed of the new passing laws

I kind of felt like an ass too, because I bet the conductor probably would have been more comfortable if I wasn't as close as I was

My understanding is that if I donate to the UW without specifying, then they take soem percentage off the top, but if I designate an organization, that organization gets all the money.

Anyhow, I figure that if they take money out of my paycheck, I'd liek it to go to road building - like it was tax or something.

So, any idea when the keystone section is going to open? I would be happy to have that open because I always have to walk next to the tracks coming over from Munhall.

Also the short section behind hofbrauhaus looks 99% finished. When will that be officially opened?

Keystone should officially open when the entire Sandcastle section is completed, should be fall (Oct/Nov) 2012. Southside Works area opens this spring.

I stopped donating to United Way many years ago, the year that they decided to drop Planned Parenthood, apparently in response to pressure from the Catholic charities that they also supported.

I'm not saying that you should donate money to PP or anything: you can probably figure out the groups that you actually care about and give them money directly thus avoiding the UW overhead. (I did send money to UW that year but included the stipulation that the money be given to PP; but if you think about it, what's the point?)

UW to my mind is a bit like the Elks or a country club. Sure, people find them important to their lives and continue to support them; but they're basically irrelevant to the world that you and I live in.

I've refused to donate to UW the year my employer made returning pre-filled out cards authorizing automatic paycheck deductions (where you had to actively opt-out by crossing out the amount automatically filled in and hand-writing in the margin that you didn't want to contribute - something you only knew if you made a few phone calls) a requirement for continued direct deposit of our pay checks every year. Seemed a hollow victory to have one of the highest participation rates in the region when intimidation and public shaming made it all but mandatory.

The participation cards were printed by UW, not my employer, though clearly my employer at the time made things more difficult than necessary.

I've worked for Big Aid, and seen it in action - I'll bet on the efficacy of BPGH, FOTRF, and little local grass roots places every time over it. Some things can only be done on a large scale - famine relief and refugee camps and the like, but lots of things just need to be done by the people already there and caring.

I'm sorry, that's so far off topic... Sounds like we need a "Close the GAP" campaign. Though perhaps that sounds a little too like shutting down the trail rather than opening it up.

"The participation cards were printed by UW, not my employer."

That alone would stop me from contributing... but that is what happens when a charity becomes a business, run by business majors.

I give the minimum to UW through payroll deduction ($1 x 26), because I know that employee participation influences how much they fund us the following year.

Quite apart from my own actions and beliefs, I wonder about how these things come about and evolve.

I can see that UW was a great idea at its inception: why do people have to do all the work of figuring out which charity is which and whatnot. Why not delegate this task to a trustworthy organization, such as UW? I can be charitable without wasting my time doing research on each charity; UW will do do it with due dilligence. It works great, for a while. Then people without quite that original motivation start to dominate the enterprise (probably because they're better at managing and organizing things than the original people). The enterprise prospers. But to keep things going you do need to make compromises...

Without trying to complicate things or initiate nasty arguments, do you you think the same process might happen in bicycling advocacy?

I have no real evidence that it might. But I am a "member" of AAA, mostly for the towing and jumping benefits. I know that AAA is not concerned about the social good, or even about the interests of car owners. Is this something (for us cyclists) to worry about just now? Or just something that requires (ongoing) vigilance?

+1 Ahlir. There is much wisdom in your question.

Why would the American Cancer Society eradicate cancer, which is how it raises money and justifies its own existence?

Grass-roots advocacy organizes for effectiveness and it's cool. Then it organizes for efficiency and it's somewhat cool. Then the organization becomes an institution in its own right, with internal stakeholders and employees, and the initial mission is lost.

Maybe just like business startups are in a race between their burn rate and their revenue stream, maybe advocacy organizations are in a racy between ossification and intent.

I always thought the same way that Ahir feels about various charities,specially when the people working for these organizations have a paid job for their entire life!! I have a relative who works for the American Diabetes Association.She tells eveybody that she would like to see a cure for diabetes,but that would mean she would then be out of a job?? I would rather give money to a charity where all the employees are volunteers instead of paid workers.

What I also don't like about U.W. is someone else, instead of myself making the decisions of how my money,(percentage), will be distributed in the various charities that they fund,especially if it's to a political party that I'm not even a member of.

Wow, even I'm not that cynical, but let me know when you guys catch cancer society workers passing out free smokes or diabetes people giving out candy. I also think focusing on size alone is painting in way too broad strokes. And most organizations are going to need paid staff at some point.

I don't have any real experience with the united way, but if you don't like them then don't contribute through them. My advice is to set up direct deposit to a dedicated account and then you'll have a pool of money to give as you see fit (and then increase that amount every year!). Raising money is not free for charities, so UW does provide some value - I don't know if they get paid too much for their services or not but they do have a function.

I think with the American Cancer Society, the question is: Does it advocate screening tests that do not save lives overall (complications rates from biopsies and treatment exceed lives saved) but make a ton of money for various constituencies?

For example, a hospital representaive estmated that on average, a "free" prostate screening test makes the hospital $5,000 (biopsies and treatment for cancers that are so slow they are unlikely to kill anyone who is under 90 years old). The screening overall has no effect on longevity.

I'm not sure exactly what the ACS policy on screening is, mind you. Some screening does save lives. Other screeening does not. Some (like if I recall correctly, lung Xrays screening for cancer) kill more than they save.

Wikipedia ahs a fairly good article on screening. It is a little abstract and short on examples. It doesn't even link to enough other Wiki pages, IMO (doesn't ahve links to "disease mongering," for example. But it explains the abstract issues well.

From wiki: Overdiagnosis occurs when all of these people with harmless abnormalities are counted as "lives saved" by the screening, rather than as "healthy people needlessly harmed by overdiagnosis".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screening_(medicine)

If I were to donate a large amount of money to a charity, I would want to examine these issues before giving ACS my cash.

Also, I'm hesitant to donate to medical "charities" because some of the physicians involved make over a million per year. I should give up my money to pay them? Where is the charity in that?

Slippery slope: a huge charity must have competent people and those people need to be paid relatively competitively. You can't run much cancer research with all volunteers.

Anyhow, I still have to chase down my question (which is now a compund question): "Is there a code I can use so I can give money to UW and all of that money will go to construction of the Mon Valley bike trail? What is that code?"

Will report back.

Ages ago, I donated to/through UW, then decided I could manage the list myself, and came up with this:

I have a running list of the next 12 organizations that will get the next $ I have available. For about half of them (e.g., Bike-Pgh), the list doesn't change, and they are reasonably assured of getting $ at least 1x/year. Occasionally a new one comes along (as Bike-Pgh did for me in 2007) and boots off something else. If I don't get to some otherwise worthy org in 2 or 3 years, they're off the list. Still hoping to give to Tree Pittsburgh and Sarah Heinz House, both worthy orgs I've discovered through biking, but they've both been waiting a long while.

Anything not on the list, their mailings go straight into the recycle bin.

Hello, I'm new here.

I'm curious about this closed section. A group of us are planning a ride on the GAP from Pittsburgh to DC. We would like to start at the point. Is it possible to get around this "gap" in the GAP with loaded bikes? We plan to leave on august 12th.

If it is, any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Mick, why donate through UW? Is there some benefit like gift matching you wouldn't otherwise get (I'm hoping that's not legal or something, but I don't know)? Otherwise, you might as well just send it directly to one of the charities people identified above.

@rambo, usually in August you can cut through Sandcastle's parking lot so you only have to worry about the 200 yard stretch by the scrap yard. This can be done by (carefully) following the RR tracks. It’s large two inch gravel along the tracks so I normally just push my bike for that short stretch. WATCH FOR TRAINS!

It’s embarrassing that this section isn’t finished yet.

Thanks Marko82. That was our plan just from scoping the route out on google sat maps, but I wasn't sure if it was doable. We are going to do some test runs in that area real soon.

It'd be handy if someone could video-cam this, both directions, and put it up on YouTube, & link it here, as this question comes up often.

on Friday, I set out to see what the "gap" near sandcastles was all about. We left from the trail Head near the McKeesrocks Bridge and rode the Chateau trail, to the north side trail, across to the point, across to the station square trail, then cross the smithfield street bridge, to the eliza furnace trail, down to the hot metal bridge, picked up the baldwin borough trail. We rode beside the tracks to the gate of sandcastles. The man gate was open, not the car gate. We snuck in and rode the parking lot around to the road. Jumped on the sidewalk by Costco and picked up the trail again in the middle of the waterfront shopping area. Road down to just past kennywood and had to turn around for the fear of getting dumped on by a thunderstorm.

The "gap" at sandcastles was painless to get around. Will be nice when this section is done.

Rode the "gap" again on sunday. We rode from station square to Boston. What a great day for a ride!! Ended with about 43 miles for the day.

Anyway...this time around, the man gate was shut. So we had to walk the bikes down the fence.

Given the history of such things, I can only imagine that if this route starts to become heavily used, No Trespassing signs will sprout at some point. Then there's a problem.

there are plenty of such signs already in place.

Is the current "best approach" for this to ride the three rivers heritage trail to the end and walk along the railroad tracks and hope that one of the sandcastle gates are open? The gates are basically guaranteed to be closed this time of year right, because Sandcastle doesn't open until June or so? If the gate is closed, I can take Baldwin to Riverton/837 and ride that to the GAP trailhead, right? I am looking at this helpful map http://goo.gl/maps/RezW posted by paulheckbert in another thread. At this point would it be smarter (coming from Lawrenceville) to just go over Squirrel Hill and then over the Homestead Grays bridge?

The man-sized gate has been open the last few weekday afternoons that I've tried, but it was closed last Wed. when we tried to go through at 6pm. So until the waterpark opens for the summer it's a roll of the dice. The 837 route or the Grays bridge route will both involve some traffic. So it comes down to would you rather walk your bike a few hundred feet along RR tracks and risk a closed gate, or climb a hill?

OK, at least it's an option then. We'll see what my dad wants to do. Thanks Marko.

If the gates closed just walk a few hundred more feet to the old bridge pier where the fence ends and you can step over the guard rail onto the road.

I just follow the tracks a little longer? Is that what he means by "hurdle a 5' fence here if you want the detour route" on this map: http://goo.gl/maps/RezW

A few hundred yards past the back gate the fence ends. Then it's just a knee high guard rail between you and sandcastle.

Oh sweet. So that route is an option no matter what. Thanks.

Any updates, or are we just stuck riding through SAD-castle the rest of the summer?

Here's a recent post from Friends of the Riverfront on the Three Rivers Heritage Trail list. (Short version: They're now shooting for this fall for the Sandcastle section. Not surprising, since their agreement with Sandcastle says no construction while it's open. So given it's not done now, the next construction window isn't until the fall.)

Plans are being reviewed by City Planning to sign and stripe a connection from Eliza Furnace to Point State Park. This will give a safe and dedicated connection above the Mon Wharf.

Construction to begin next week on connecting Eliza Furnace at Hot Metal through the ALMONO site to Hazelwood Avenue. This will add another 1.5 miles of trail and connect Hazelwood with downtown Pittsburgh and beyond.

Last portion of GAP at Keystone Iron and Medals funds secured, contracts currently out to bid. Completion tentatively scheduled for this fall.

Mackin Engineering now under contract to plan additional trail along the Ohio Riverfront from Station Square to Coraopolis to connect with the Montour Trail, will create a connection to the Pittsburgh international Airport and loop through the South Hills back to the GAP

Plan for the Allegheny Riverfront (Community Trails Initiative) completed, Friends of the Riverfront has begun purchasing property (Aspinwall Marina) and negotiating for right of way to begin the trail extension.

South Side Segment from 4th to 2nd. Easement from terminal Building secured, currently negotiating with CSX for property to connect straight through.

Additional information of current projects may be found on the Trail Status page at www.friendsoftheriverfront.org

Friends of the Riverfront has already hosted over 450 volunteers this spring along for 3 or more hours of service on the trail. We have planted 430 trees on the South Side to replace those dying of from Emerald Ash Borer, removed 2 tons of trash and recycling along the trail and removed several acres on invasive Japanese Knotweed. Please consider volunteering some of your time to help maintain the Three Rivers Heritage Trail.

Mackin Engineering now under contract to plan additional trail along the Ohio Riverfront from Station Square to Coraopolis to connect with the Montour Trail

Very cool.

Construction to begin next week on connecting Eliza Furnace at Hot Metal through the ALMONO site to Hazelwood Avenue. This will add another 1.5 miles of trail and connect Hazelwood with downtown Pittsburgh and beyond.

This is also rad. I was just going to inquire about this as I've been taking 2nd Ave outbound lately. While 2nd isn't the worst road in the world, traffic moves fast and aggressively. This will more easily connect Duck Hollow to Downtown and South Side for me.

It's going to be one heck of a network when it's all said and done.

Cool, I'm going to have to see if we have any professional contacts at Mackin and see if I can poke my nose around in that.

Any updates on the status of the GAP? Obviously the SADcastle portion is on definite hiatus until the summer season's over, but any further work being done on the Keystone Iron and Metals scrapyard portion? Honestly, the latter being completed is of more importance to me because at least the detour around Sadcastle isn't as bad as riding on heavy railroad aggregate with large puddles alongside a quite ACTIVE rail line.

Question. Of. The. Season. (seriously)

At one time, it probably made sense to link the opening of Sandcastle's trail and the Keystone Metal trail, but with the extension of yet another year and another tourist season, I'm not sure it still makes sense the way it once did.

(photo taken 6/23/12)

When there's a lot of puddles, the proximity of the remaining path to the moving train is problematic.

When/if this goes wrong, who will be surprised?

Has hell frozen over yet??? No okay, so therefore the answer to your question is NO.

it's in the SPC's 2012-2016 plan (PDF). Since 2000, it has...

What a great first impression.

What is the hold-up here? Is it money? Is it city politics? Is it Sandcastle not wanting to come to an agreement?

Ask Sandcastle, Army Corps, DEP, City of Pittsburgh, SPC, Norfolk Southern, Allegheny County, Keystone Metals and various trail non-profits, and you'll receive a variety of answers.

@sloaps -- So is it possible to put the various answers together a la Rashoman to come up with something that might tell you what the actual reality is here?

Since I don't live in the Burgh I haven't followed this closely, so I'm asking because I don't know what all those answers actually are.

I haven't followed the issue very closely but maybe a year ago one of Keystone Metals' owners told me that the company had already donated the land to whatever entity will own it. He didn't say when it was donated but my impression was that it was not a recent transaction.

Sandcastle, Army Corps, DEP, City of Pittsburgh, Norfolk Southern, Trail Orgs: someone must fix the failing streets run culvert; owner may or may not be in violation of federal and state environmental law; it's partially collapsed and no one wants to own or fix the whole thing. GAP trail alignment (between railroad and Sandcastle) is through the collapsed section.

Sandcastle, Norfolk Southern: a private road is probably within the railroad R/W. should be demolished/moved.

Trail Orgs, Allegheny County, Norfolk Southern, Keystone Metals: the R/W is yours, but others have to build it and hold the railroad and Keystone harmless of any loss or damage to the traveling public proximate to their operations.

Our story so far (since some folks haven't been following it)....

In October 2010, Sandcastle and CSX and Allegheny County and the trail folks finally came to an agreement to build the trail past Sandcastle.

Their goal was to open it just over 12 months later, on 11-11-11. The agreement specified no construction while Sandcastle was open.

Then they started actually engineering the trail: writing a request for bids, waiting for engineers to submit bids, picking a winner, having them do the detailed design, circulate it to the various parties above plus the federal government and other funders, then modify until everybody was happy. I heard getting the federal government to sign off took a particularly long time. That ate through all of 2011.

Then they sent out requests for bids from construction companies to actually build the thing (spring 2012), and hired one. The construction company now has to wait for Sandcastle to close before they can start, though I think some utility work happened this spring.

Simultaneously, they were doing the same for the Keystone Metals section. Keystone had agreed long ago to let the trail go through once Sandcastle was on board, but actually building the trail there was going to be much more expensive than the Sandcastle section, and the trail group didn't have the money for it at first. So applying for and receiving funding took a while too. They also had to do some preliminary construction, removing part of a bridge pier, before they could finish the detailed design. I think the plan is now to build that section simultaneously with the Sandcastle section.

So that's all supposed to start in September. I've seen estimates that construction could take 2 months, which seems optimistic to me, but at least then we'll be seeing obvious progress on the ground, instead of progress in the paperwork.

I know before Sandcastle signed off in 2010, there was speculation that they were tying approval to their beef about the culvert, but I haven't heard anything about it since then.

awe snap, sounds like things are so so close.

concur on CSX as the railway owner... always confuse the two... thanks, Steven.

@Steven -- thanks. As always your willingness and patience to explain everything well is appreciated!!

@Steven, thanks! Christmas Trail in Sandcastle! (or New Years!)

I ride through there just about every day twice a day. On one occasion I ran into an employee from Keystone and he thinks the trail will be done next spring. He showed me that the grading was done and the route of the trail through the area. That said, there is a lot of work going on there, but it's not trail work. Equipment is stored on the graded trail. It appears (and this is a a guess on my part) that there is a lot of land fill being moved around to give K.M. more area to compensate for the land they donated. We've been patient, and it'll get done. I hope more riders will join me on the commute from the McKeesport Industrial Park. Again, this info is unofficial.

My pleasure, folks.

Equipment is stored on the graded trail.

Interesting. I wonder if that construction is what's delaying the Keystone section from starting construction this summer. I'd guessed it was due to the delay in getting funding (so perhaps they couldn't get on the construction company's schedule until that happened, around the beginning of the year I think). But maybe it's to do with not getting in the way of this work Keystone's doing.

Next spring sounds like a reasonable completion estimate to me, though it'll be great if they can manage to build the whole thing by the end of the year like they want to.

Then we can start grumbling about how the two connections to the Mon Wharf GAP trail segment downtown are taking so long.

@Steven: thanks. Glad that it sounds like things were close. And I was all set to start raising money if that was the issue...

@Steven - Just wanted to add my thanks too. I come here solely for updates on this section of the trail.

We're leaving from the point, to DC in a few weeks. Last year we had high hopes that this GAP, and the big slackwater detour would be completed for our adventure. Looks like neither will be done. Maybe next time!! Thanks again Steven!

The Sandcastle thing is VERY frustrating to an after work ride. Got stuck with the gate locked and nearing sunset! 7th Ave and Carson st. are very scary at that time of night! I'm going in the daylight today and will take the walk along the tracks to scope it out. ANYTHING but the ride through Homestead's streets.