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Great Allegheny Passage

I bought a old building on the Great Allegheny Passage. It is beyond repair. Will be demolishing it next month. I cleaned out all the junk and started to gut it. Trying to build some rental cabins for trail users. Volunteers needed. Is in Smithdale 30 miles from Pittsburgh. Back taxes I paid ($1600)new deed is in my name. Is on Smithdale Road next to trail.My email Bluemountaindrivepaedward@gmail.com


edward-m
2011-03-27 04:58:54

are these going to be free cabins to rent? if not, why would you expect people to volunteer for your for profit venture?


imakwik1
2011-03-29 18:57:31

Somehow I don't expect him to reply. Generally when people leave email addresses in forum posts, they will only respond to emails. Frustrating, I know.


joeframbach
2011-03-29 21:18:49

Just to play devil's advocate, weren't some people doing work and soliciting volunteers for labor on the upstairs of Kraynick's? That's a for profit enterprise no matter what any of us have taken away from there in deals or knowledge or tool use.


bradq
2011-03-29 21:28:49

The Great Allegheny Passage was in fine shape Tuesday. I went to West Newton and said hi to Regional Trail Council. I want to build triple low cost budget traveler shacks. I should be talking to zoning or health department. The Junk Crew cleaned up back yard last fall and junk man Paul and ABC EZ are my employees. Junk Crew is to expensive they are fired. I may be camped out in yard in my green dome next week. My cell phone does not even work in Smithdale.


edward-m
2011-03-31 07:14:09

And the Shamrock Bar is going down next month. This old party shack is falling down. Junk man Paul can have the oil burning furnace and the bath tub. I am gonna get the 40 or 50 yard dumpster next week. It is to rainy and cold to be outside all day today.


edward-m
2011-03-31 07:23:11

I might walk from Mckeesport to Smithdale next week. I dropped of a broom and dustpan on Tuesday. I am gonna bring a hammer, chisel , crowbar and screwdriver. The brick bbq on railroad property is getting smashed too. It got sumac trees growing in it.


edward-m
2011-03-31 07:43:02

Sounds like an epic project, best of luck! I'm jealous of your demo work, it's so much easier than construction or repair ;) I can't volunteer, but I hope you find the help you need. Good luck!


ejwme
2011-03-31 16:41:12

fwiw, volunteering at kraynick's is more akin to helping out your uncle


erok
2011-03-31 17:18:09

I guess it all depends on who your uncle is.


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-03-31 17:22:16

re: DEVIL


if this guy is giving away free cabin space to those who help him out then that's a different story... there is a reason that people don't mind helping out gerry: he's helped all of us at one point or another and never asked for anything in return...


imakwik1
2011-04-01 00:12:44

Building permit guy told me no porta johns permited. I want 2 picnic tables to chain end to end. I got 2011 county tax bill in mail oddly with wrong house number on it. Ocean Street is the side yard been flooded twice.


edward-m
2011-04-01 04:17:10

edward - the no porta johns doesn't have to be a show stopper - you could probably pretty easily build/install a passive composting toilet - http://humanurehandbook.com/ provides instructions on the different types, and how to. THAT would be awesome, requires no sewage/power/disposal. And you could plant flowers with the results.


ejwme
2011-04-01 13:03:33

Humanure.


Great word.


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-01 15:17:24

i was seriously hoping he was going to answer... i want to know why.


imakwik1
2011-04-01 17:32:19

I can't imagine there is a ton of money in renting cabins along a bike trail. I've volunteered an afternoon here and there to for-profit groups that I know will benefit me or something I care about (for nothing in exchange). Plenty of people here have a vested interest in the GAP trail and increasing its popularity and amenities one way or another. So why give him a hard time? I don't get it. If you don't want to volunteer, then just leave it be and let those that want to give their time to his endeavor.


I've never been to Kraynick's. I've never directly benefited from Gerry's generosity, but I spent time here looking for plans, talking to my friends, rode over to your house to drop off a box of screws. I find your dedication to his shop admirable and was happy to do what I can to help.


dwillen
2011-04-01 17:51:14

Until I get permit to build new septic tank approved from Allegheny County Health Department I am not permited to build nothing. I had locals tell me I wont get a building permit because it is on flood zone.I am not making promises I am am not building permited to keep.I believe the septic permit first step is a percolation test to see if land is dry enough for a septic tank. I want my shacks to be better than the shacks in Cedar Park and Roundbottom/Slush Run. By the way are you aware Rivers Edge in Adelade charges $100 a day for there cabins.White devil has a lot of work to do and needs to borrow a ladder and sledge hammer.I got some phone calls to make I am planning on starting demolition Monday morning.


edward-m
2011-04-01 18:08:08

There is a sort of stream-of-consciousness to Edward's posts that I find almost hypnotizing. Passages like "White devil has a lot of work to do and needs to borrow a ladder and sledge hammer," bear a certain amount of mystery.


I'm curious to see what's going to happen next!


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-01 18:40:34

Whoa now, before you start demo'ing everything - do any of the existing buildings have ANY kind of toilet facilities? Regardless of how bad they may be? I'm pretty sure there's a whole different procedure for establishing a new waste system, or even building a new structure, (more difficult) than there is for "renovating" a building on the footprint of an existing one. You might want to try running that by the local building department.

You could do a remote toilet/shower building with cabins as sleeping rooms only, like most campgrounds.


edmonds59
2011-04-01 18:49:44

And yes, Almklm, I agree.


edmonds59
2011-04-01 19:04:59

I recall some sort of weird rule for building refab’s that state if you leave at least one of the structure’s original walls it’s not considered “new construction”. The permits are different for new construction vs a building improvement. When you do this it cuts out the need to also get additional approval from the local municipalities for a proposed new building on the site.


greasefoot
2011-04-01 20:33:37

Depending on the municipality, etc., etc... but it depends on the ordinances. Building a new structure means you have to deal with conditional uses, setbacks, square footage requirements, etc. You do generally have a lot more leeway with a "renovation."


It would be worthwhile to research with the municipality whether this type of cottage deal is even permissible, etc.


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-01 20:41:04

Trail Corps headquarters is at West Newton and I gave them a job. There job is to smash the brick bbq from sumac patch. Weather forecast is very wet.To wet for camping I will mountainbike out to Smithdale Monday morning. ABCEZ been there before and my yard is large enough for a 18 wheeler.I smashed the ladies room toilet and threw out the mens room sink. There is no plumbing or electric or water meter. There is 2 phone lines , power line was cut last year. This old building is not connected to sewage line has a septic tank in back yard.


edward-m
2011-04-01 21:18:59

oops, edit, mistaken post


edmonds59
2011-04-01 21:31:45

If they are not going to give you a permit to dig a new septic tank you should be allowed to fix or upgrade the existing one. You shuold do some more research.


greasefoot
2011-04-01 21:47:24

this is getting awesome. so how much are you thinking you're going to rent these for?


imakwik1
2011-04-03 01:19:39

Sound like a cool project. I am sure everyone would love to see some pictures.


igo
2011-04-03 02:13:39

I did mention this building has been flooded twice. It is starting to fall down and roofing is in yard. Am starting demolition Monday. Starting with the roof then paneling and styrofoam insulation. Still have 2 air conditioners in building. And ABCEZ has not been called yet. Maybe Trail Corps will help. I am riding downtown and taking 56 bus to Mckeesport and riding to Smithdale at sunrise Monday. I am going to talk to RTC about placing picnic tables and a portojohn in Smithdale on trail.If ABCEZ is ready I am getting a 30 yard dumpster.


edward-m
2011-04-03 19:11:43

mmm... I am the first to admit that I'm a luddite, but this is looking like a substitute twitter thing, with a ready made audience for following. Just feels a little less like engagement and a little more like exhibition.


@edward m - are you just not finding time to read people's responses?


ejwme
2011-04-04 16:28:40

Maybe he's Amish? I went to college in Amish county and the local newspaper would publish letters from the Amish (how they communicated with each other), and they sounded EXACTLY like this!


smarti6
2011-04-04 20:12:05

I think if Flannery O'Connor were alive today and McSweeney's commissioned her to rewrite The Little Red Hen for an online literary journal, it would be just like this thread.


pseudacris
2011-04-04 20:22:23

Wow.



edmonds59
2011-04-04 20:36:43

^lmao


pseudacris
2011-04-04 20:37:35

I started demolition. ABCEZ delivered the 30 yard dumpster. Me and ABCEZ argued over what county Smithdale is in (it is in Allegheny county) close to county line. Junk man Paul helped me, I cut some insulated copper wire and that is his pay. Gave Paul a heavy air conditioner. It was so nice Monday until it rained. It is gonna take all month to level this building, my hands hurt. Will be demolishing 2142 Smithdale Road on Wednesday anyone want to help?


edward-m
2011-04-05 06:32:07

So far, I think Junk Man Paul is my favorite character.


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-05 11:31:02

@edward m


Could you do me a favor?


When I see this subject, I think that it is a post about the trail, or perhaps riding on the trail.


Instead i see posts on your project, which isn't the trail, at all. Sure you like the trail being there, and your project depends on the trail - still your project is not the trail.


Could you start a new thread with an appropriate title?


Thanks


mick
2011-04-05 11:38:23

I'm still intrigued by White Devil. Junk man Paul seems a little bit like Eeyore, or maybe that General guy from Twin Peaks. I haven't figured out who that mysterious ABCEZ is, maybe Bob. Regardless, I am enjoying this.


edmonds59
2011-04-05 12:41:16

ABCEZ rents Dumpsters out of McKees Rocks.


pseudacris
2011-04-05 12:58:09

thanks edmonds - I now have the twin peaks theme song stuck in my head. Very appropriate for this thread, though.


Is it bad that that song (and the show) makes me homesick for BC?


ejwme
2011-04-05 13:09:59

Ej, I'm going to download the Twin Peaks tune sometime soon. I can play that and the Portlandia theme back to back on the next ride, and ride off into a hazy PNW mist.


edmonds59
2011-04-05 13:28:04

the dream of the 90's is alive in Portland, Portland, Portland...


*SIGH*


ejwme
2011-04-05 13:34:41

I got caught in the thunderstorm last night. Had no headlight or fenders. My bike and clothes are coated in mud. Mckees Cafe will let me or any customer use there shower.I was to late to use there shower last night. Great Allegheny Passage was muddy last night. Got pictures but I do not know how to post them. ABCEZ was mad it took him a hour and a half to drive to Smithdale. And I am not Amish or Mennonite Or Brethren. Mick bossanova I will repost volunteers wanted free rum and pop. So far I got 0 volunteers.


edward-m
2011-04-05 14:36:11

free rum and pop... hope its gingerale... i guess we would have to get out there though which is a hell of a ride for us old folks


imakwik1
2011-04-05 15:22:25

This line of thinking leads me to believe that I need to download some Portishead, too.


edmonds59
2011-04-05 15:32:06

Hi @edward m,


I see from your first post on this thread that you have a gmail account. If you click the "photos" link at the top of the window while you are logged on to your gmail account, there should be easy instructions for uploading photos. Then you could post a link to the online photo album here.


Another way is to put photos right into your post, but that requires typing a little bit of HTML (web code) into your post. If you want to try that, I can put instructions here, but it might be easier to just put a link to a Picasa album. Picasa is the free photo sharing site that comes with your gmail.


I think it is neat that you want to build triple low cost cabins along the gap trail.


It might be hard to get volunteers until people get to know you and the project a little bit, or know that they'd be trading a lot of hard work for access to the cabins or something.


There are probably a lot of people who might be interested in renting the cabins once they're done.


pseudacris
2011-04-05 15:33:56

It may be impossible to get permit for any new construction. Land is 10 feet beneath flood zone. This building damaged by floods and fire. Am still gutting the building. I heard building codes are for people who want utilities. And this double lot is flat and cleared the grass mowed by Smithdale.


edward-m
2011-04-05 16:30:36

edward m - here's a tip: look for the smallest footprint you'd need a permit for, then cut an inch off all dimensions. Fit cabins/shelters to those new dimensions (there may be a quantity limit too). Most municipalities are ~10' square, WAY more than necessary for a little trail cabin. If people can live full time in tiny spaces, they can spend a nigh in one: http://tinyhouseblog.com/ or http://www.thetinylife.com/what-is-the-tiny-house-movement/


No plumbing/no electricity is "rustic" and "green". Might be able to swing some small solar panels to provide lighting, though. If you fit them up nicely, they could double as "tiny house" themed novelty place to stay. There's a guy in Texas who builds them cheap with 99% recycled materials (new nails/screws/glue, everything else is scrounged, spiffed up, repurposed, reused).


You have an awesome opportunity to do something very very cool here.


ejwme
2011-04-05 16:40:47

Edward I think you are referring to the UCC building code for Recreational Cabin’s:


Recreational Cabin -- A structure where all of the following apply:


i. The cabin is utilized principally for recreational activity.


ii. The cabin is not utilized as a domicile or residence for any individual for any time period.


iii. The cabin is not utilized for commercial purposes.


iv. The cabin is not greater than two stories in height, excluding basement.


v. The cabin is not utilized by the owner or any other person as a place of employment.


vi. The cabin is not a mailing address for bills and correspondence.


vii. The cabin is not listed as an individual's place of residence on a tax return, driver's license, car registration or voter registration.


If you are planning to rent the cabins for a commercial purpose then you probably need a building permit and building inspections.


White Devil should probably do some more research…


greasefoot
2011-04-05 17:08:34

White Devil, ABCEZ, and Junk Man Paul sound like prime characters for a webcomic or flash animation. They can be smashing and removing random parts of bathrooms, drinking rum and pop and watching their hard work get washed into the Youghiogheny River.


dwillen
2011-04-05 17:28:03

And I don't mean to throw more problems in your path, but if you are going to run this as a business, you will need some kind of insurance coverage. You may not be able to get an insurance carrier to insure any structure in a 100 yr flood zone, and they would certainly require full permits. You would want to incorporate, for your own protection, and you sure don't want to be carried on your personal insurance and have anyone to come after your personal assets. Yikes.


edmonds59
2011-04-05 17:33:37

@edwardm - Have you checked with your municipality? Regardless of the need (or not) of a Building Permit, you will still need an Occupancy Permit. Especially for a commercial venture, which it appears this is.


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-05 19:23:18

The State of PA has a uniform set of UCC building codes that were passed in 2004(?) Over 80% of local municipalities in the State opted in to reform with the new UCC building codes. The local municipalities that opted in can have additional requirements and regulations but the state UCC codes are a good point of reference to start with.


It took me about 5 minutes to find this information on google and the state of PA web page.


greasefoot
2011-04-05 19:59:39

And those codes are enforced by a local Building Inspector, who also issues Occupancy Permits. Also, I'm pretty sure the UCC was updated in 2009 or 2010.


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-05 20:02:55

@ALMKLM – Yep, that’s what it says on the State web page, the local muni enforces the codes and issues permits. I think the last time they amended the building codes it had something to do with requiring building contactors be register with the state.


OT but after the tornado last week several roofing contactors came in from out of state to try and "help" with the recovery. They found out that since they were not register with the State they could not do any of the insurance work.


greasefoot
2011-04-05 20:30:33

@edward, greasefoot - just to be clear, Building Permits and Occupancy Permits are two different things. Even if edward skirts the issue and just builds the cottages, the municipality may not issue an occupancy permit for the use of the structures (forgive if i'm beating the dead horse here).


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-05 20:50:10

ALMKLM, Rest assured I’m reading your messages and comprehend what you are saying.


Do you know if they need a permit for a Hobbit Dwelling?


greasefoot
2011-04-05 21:02:36

Yurts are a great idea! If they were on platforms, there might be better ways of dealing with humanure & flooding.


pseudacris
2011-04-05 21:10:36

Yurts are pretty sweet. I've not stayed in a semi-permanent one, but the portable models are awesome for long-term camping.


(NOT light or easy to pack in via bicycle, however.)


reddan
2011-04-05 21:12:03

And the name Yerts already sounds Pittsburghese...


greasefoot
2011-04-05 21:14:09

Business Opportunity: Yurts n'@!


(greasefoot - but is edward gettin' it?)


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-05 21:24:31

{{{slight threadjack}}} I like @dwillen's link to the guy who lives in his bike. Reminds me of a project by the artist Machel Rakowitz: inflatable heated tents for the homeless that are paraSITES on the HVAC systems of city buildings & made out of cheap bags & tape.


pseudacris
2011-04-05 22:11:53

Are there yurts for rent in Ohiopyle State Park? Anyone have a picture of the cabin at Rivers Edge? The Elisabeth Township building inspector told me I cant have a porta potty or build any size shed. He also said I can park a recreational vehicle on lot but can not live in it. And it is Allegheny County Health Department that handles septic permits, recertifications.


edward-m
2011-04-05 23:04:00

So if you can't have a porta-potty, and you can't even erect a shed, how do you expect to be able to (lawfully) build cottages, yurts, lean-to's or anything else that you would rent out to people?


Any structure built without a building permit is not likely to be given an occupancy permit.


(All of my comments presume you intend to operate a legitimate business and provide a responsible service to trail travelers - ie: safe lodging in a structure build to accepted standards as defined by applicable codes.)


atleastmykidsloveme
2011-04-05 23:31:24

edward m - not sure if this will help, but it might give you some ideas.


there's a guy in Kentucky who owns a pizza shop with a shower and bathrooms. He charges a dollar a shower token, potty is free (he's got sewage, but you might be able to figure something out a la humanure or something). he doesn't charge people who just drive up and set up a tent on his property.


I also know a guy in West Virginia who owns a mess of land in a convenient spot. He asks $4 to park a car on his property, beside which you can set up a tent/have a camp fire unharassed (charge is per vehicle, not person or tent). He's got bathrooms (attached to his little convenience store), no shower.


Not sure what details you'd have to settle, but until you sort out the building stuff, you may be able to scrounge a few dollars from people looking for a quiet place to camp on the trail. Depending on the amount of land, you could even retain this option and add on the plusher building option once you figure that out.


Don't forget that even the tallest mountain in the world has been climbed - just not all in one day.


ejwme
2011-04-06 16:03:38

I am staying in Pittsburgh today. Had a terrible 16 mile bike ride in thunderstorm at night with no fenders or headlight on Monday. Mud got in my eyes. My hands and back were sore but I feel better now. Got lots of stuff done on Monday. I had 2 people help remove a heavy AC from a window and lift it into back of pickup. Am still gutting building, could not remove roof due to thunderstorm. Picnic tables wanted, delivery needed.


edward-m
2011-04-06 16:48:10

I rode to Smithdale on Tuesday to have a look. Smithdale rd is a residential street. I certainley support the project. I just wonder how many trail users want to "camp" on a residential street between two houses. Good luck Edward maybe I'll run into you next time.


timito
2011-04-06 22:10:05

@ewjme: In ol' Kentuck, I think you're talking about Miquel's in Slade. It's a very popular climber's campground. These days, it's busy enough that he does charge a few bucks to pitch a tent, but the pizza is still darn good, and after my first (of many) visits, I'm now in the habit of putting ice cream in my coffee. And, of course, Miquel is good people.


There are several similar campgrounds around the New River Gorge in WV (most notably Roger's Rocky Top Retreat and Chestnut Creek Campground, which is a bit more of a proper campground than Roger's).


In my experience with climbers (a culture which shares many characteristics with cyclists), they are more than happy to have a bit of earth to pitch their tent (in the case of Roger's, it doesn't even have to be flat). Both Miquel's and Roger's have interesting communities that form, and my wife and I have lasting friendships with folks we've met there.


So, Edward, I say go for it.


bjanaszek
2011-04-07 00:54:00

Smithdale is a very small town. Sorry I missed you Timito I was not feeling well. Will be in Smithdale around noon to 6 tomorrow.


edward-m
2011-04-07 02:53:58

bjasaszek - indeed it is Miquel's that I was thinking of (his pizza toppings have inspired me - adzuki beans, who knew?!). The other was outside Seneca as I remember it about 7 years ago (forget the family name, they own the only store/pizza shop too). (haven't been to Slade in about 5 years either, always went in winter too, not sure if that matters). Roger's is awesome, though :D


Timito's point about things like Rogers and Miguels not necessarily fitting in well in a residential area are a good point, though I'm sure edwardm will figure out something unique to his site too.


ejwme
2011-04-07 16:03:45

Depends on the popularity. In the mid 90s, before the climbing boom really hit, on any given weekend there would be just a handful of us at Roger's, so it was quiet and mellow. These days, it's seen as _the_ climber's campground, so it busy, and can certainly get noisy. So, I'm guessing such a thing _is_ possible in a residential neighbor, as long as things are kept under control. Roger, for example, doesn't allow rafters to camp on his property, given their propensity for extra-loud-obnoxious partying.


bjanaszek
2011-04-07 16:45:44

wow, I didn't think anybody had a worse reputation than climbers. Then again, I didn't realize that rafters had a stereotype either :)


The Red you can still find some rock to yourself - if you go in the winter. Chilly, but I've climbed happily there on sheltered south facing cliffs even in the rain. Nothing beats having a wall to one's self... similar to having the road to ones' self on a Sunday morning.


Sorry to digress edwardm, you can have your thread back now ;)


ejwme
2011-04-07 18:11:03

Got a lot of work done yesterday. Had a visit from the building inspector. I talked to volunteer trail patrol guy. RTC has my permission to clean up the trash at the Sutersville trailhead and put it in my dumpster. Yesterday was a great day for cycling. This post is about the Great Allegheny Passage and Im not reposting. 0 volunteers so far.


edward-m
2011-04-08 15:49:41

What do the houses in the neighborhood do for water and sewage?


How is this posting on your real estate project about the Great Allegheny Passage? How is it you think we might volunteer for you when you won't even give your thread an honest title for us?


mick
2011-04-08 16:07:59

(Mick, the property he has is on a residential portion of the GAP, he's trying to turn it into some kind of accomidation for GAP cyclists and is looking for help, doesn't seem so unreasonable to me, I just work too long hours to help out.)


ejwme
2011-04-08 16:38:17

I'm not really motivated by the idea of voluntering my time and labor, I have enough projects of my own to finish, also camping on a residential street is unappealing to me especially considering there's more then one free campground on that part of the trail. I ride it to get away from the city. That said, anything that improves facilities along the trail is in my opinion a bonus.


timito
2011-04-08 18:41:03

Best of luck to you Edward.


timito
2011-04-08 18:41:06

Edward,

Any news? I may be out again this week. If the weathers nice for a few days, I camp at the Dravos cemeterey, not far, maybe I can help for a day.


timito
2011-04-10 17:00:38

Dravo cemetary campground was wet and squishy yesterday. Use a ground cloth. There was a camper there yesterday morning and all his clothes were on clothes line drying. Have to start with a septic permit going to talk to the guy tomorrow. And the trees that were down on trail are cleared. I can not do anything but rebuild. Was allowed to continue gutting building by building inspector. Almost done with the cleanup. Met my neighbor George and he asked if I had any work so I paid him to chop down the poison ivy and poison oak pick up trash and dig up 2 railroad ties out back. He did a real good job. Going to get some building permits. If I do any rebuilding without permits building inspector will catch me.


edward-m
2011-04-10 19:00:29

yep, wet and squishy, just the way I like it.


timito
2011-04-10 21:48:59