BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

The type of bike you are looking for is called a "Comfort bike", that's the actual industry term, believe it or not, as if everything else is intentionally not comfortable. I've checked out the Bean bikes, they're fine, especially for the use you describe. From what I know about Bean, they should be pretty good about any warranty issues. I'm not sure how their staff would be with adjustments and tune-ups.

You want the 21 speeds, yes, you do. This is Pittsburgh.

Your instincts about the $200 Dunham bikes are correct.

I don't know how Bean would be about getting the bike fitted to you, pretty important. Key, you need to get the seat height right or your knees will be hurting.

If you want to try looking a bit more before buying, go to REI or Trek Shadyside, they both have a reputation of being very helpful.

Oh, and whatever you get, get a good U-lock and a rear blinkie light at the same time!

Thank you - the seat is easily adjustable. Do you think that is a good price for that type of a bike?

Yes, I think that is about as good as you are going to get for something worthwhile.

Thom Jones, at Bean, is quite knowledgeable about bikes and about Bean's demographic. There's another fellow there whose name escapes me - Ken, I think - who is also a good bike guy.

As a practical matter, I recommend that beginning riders form a relationship with a vendor, not just pick up a bike at one place and get it serviced somewhere else.

Ross Park Mall is a bit of a jaunt from Swissvale, so it would probably be more practical to stick with something closer. REI, Trek, and the Performance store all have plenty of basic entry-level bikes at entry-level price points.

In defense of the guy you mentioned, it's possible that what you interpreted as squeezing every last dollar was simply his enthusiasm showing. The so-called "good salesman" who only cares about sales, doesn't care about what's best for his customer and will gladly allow them to buy anything that want, so long as the sale is quick, easy, and doesn't take any time.

Thanks, Lyle.

My parents live in the North Hills, so I am out there frequently enough that I don't mind the trek.

Yes, don't be too hesitant to engage salespeople out of fear that they will try to "up-sell" you. Most people work at bike shops because they are into it, and they get excited about what they sell. I can totally understand being a little intimidated by the vibe at Pro. It's entirely possible the older woman at Pro had a lot of questions, had some money to spend, and just wanted something really nice. Just stick to the dollar figure you are comfortable with and be straight with the salesperson and yourself.

Actually newbies have got to be harder to sell than vets, last time I spent a big dollar on a bike (4 decimal places, for me, big), it was the easiest sale they ever had (Can you get this bike? Can you get it in a 54 cm? When will it be here?).

In defense of Pittsburgh bike shops, nobody has ever tried to up-sell me anything. Maybe I look like a broke student, but they always pull out the cheapest stuff first, and I have to ask for something a little nicer.

The only problems of upselling I've heard in the city are from the likes of pro-bikes, but that was right after the big "dudes stole my company" upheaving.

hi there, I live in Swissvale too- welcome. I can say that I have never taken Commercial all the way over to Squirrel Hill. It's fine if you want to just go down to the bottom of the hill to Frick, but getting up the hill to the other side would be pretty tough on a comfort bike. It makes me nervous because there isn't a shoulder to mover over to in order to walk the bike.

When I ride to SH, I go the other way from Braddock to Forbes and there's a bike lane. Anyway, that's just my opinion for what it's worth.

It sounds like you mostly want to cruise around the neighborhood and ride bike paths. The bike you're looking at would be fine for that, but less suitable for tackling hills such as for commuting from Swissvale to other neighborhoods.

There are other bikes that might be more of a hybrid and able to do both, but there's nothing wrong with the one you've picked if cruising around is the kind of riding that is most important for you. Basically, decide what kind of riding you want to do the most and buy a bike that's good at that.

Sadly, Pro Bikes can't seem to get beyond its old reputation.

In the old days they were known for being snooty elitists who disdained the mere recreational cyclist (though I admit that I personally never encountered that attitude). I would have expected that they'd grown out of that, but no such luck.

Worse, they seem to have added a propensity for hard-sell, where instead of trying to figuring out your appropriate ride they try to push you to buy something inappropriate but much more expensive. (Based on my experiences last year, trying to upgrade my ride. I bought at Trek East Lib instead.)

Sad.

Pro Bikes hasn't tried to upsell me in their defense. There is one employee that I don't care for, but everyone else has been fine. They aren't a favorite shop of mine though.

My wife bought her bike at pro bikes last year. I had no complaints with the salesperson (who was a female, btw - somewhat of a rarity at a lot of shops) and she definitely didn't try to upsell us. We went to a bunch of other shops but she liked the bike she found there, which is a Giant - definitely a pretty casual ride and in the same price range as the OP was looking for...

So, YMMV but like I said in the other thread, I've never really had a bad experience with any shop in the city.

On a positive note, I've had generally good experiences (and would recommend):

-- Iron City

-- Trek @ East Lib

-- REI @ south-side

This is based on multiple visits to each. Your own mileage will, of course, vary.

If you manage to provoke me (and please don't try) I'll be happy to go into names and dates and emails related to my dealings with Pro Bike.

Thanks all, I didn't mean for this to be an anti-pro bikes thread. It's possible my instincts were misplaced.

I have the day off and I'm going to try to go to the west view shop. Anyone have experience there?

Tabby, I know what you mean about that hill. It's a killer to walk up and there's no sidewalks. You have to take your life in your hands but so far I've walked up and down it many times (for exercise) and nobody's run me over yet.

My current running/walking route is braddock to forbes (I see the nice wide biking lanes!), to beechwood and down the monster hill back to commercial.

I would like to be able to bike around the city, possibly into downtown when I'm ready. I've even thought about making the trek to the north hills on a bike. I want to learn how to bike with traffic. I don't think I'll do too much trail biking. Mainly out of fear of damaging my bike.

So, are you saying there is a difference between a "hybrid" and a "comfort bike?" I do want to be sure I will be able to get up hills. I'll eventually need to do hills like negley from 5th into Squirrel Hill, and Forbes itself is a bit of a hill going from Oakland to Squirrel Hill. Do you think this bike will not be able to do those?

Hi Italianblend. I started my commute from the Regent Square Area to downtown on a "24-speed" Trek Navigator comfort bike last year. I ended up switching to slightly narrower, puncture-resistant tires.(not as skinny as road tires, though)

I can go up all the hills you mention, except I haven't tried that steep stretch of Negley, or Commercial.

It takes some practice to get up the hills with the right gearing & getting used to / increasing your lung capacity, but it can be done! Beechwood is a great practice hill: longer & less steep!

Eventually, I changed to a slightly faster & more rigid bike, but the Trek Comfort bike was very comfortable & reliable.

I also used the Bike Pittburgh map (download here or pick up a free copy at various shops around town) to plan out some routes around town.

Good luck to you. Riding around Pittsburgh is super fun!

To split hairs, hybrids seem to have narrower tires, and be a bit lighter, not necesarily what you are looking for. The Bean bike you looked at should handle the hills around here. What you want to make sure you get is something with "triple chainrings", the chainrings are the large gears in front by the pedals, you want 3. The gears in the rear are called the cogs, you want the lowest cog, the one closest to the wheel, to be big, like 32 to 36 teeth. That's all you need. Don't hesitate to use those low gears, don't try to push a high gear up a hill, when in doubt, go straight to a lower gear.

Just start picking your way around town, and if you hit a hill, don't be afraid to get off and walk up, nothing wrong with that. As you go you will learn which routes are easier for you.

Can someone look at this bike and tell me what the advantage is with this over the first one?

-21-speed SRAM drivetrain with Mega gear for climbing steep hills

-700c tires instead of "26 in"

-Adjustable Stem

-4 lbs lighter

Thanks everyone for your help.

It looks like almost the exact same bike except for the wheel/tire size and adjustable stem. First bike would be better for unpaved trails and pot-holed roads, second bike would be better on streets and hills (lighter).

@IB - I bought a bike from Scholls (Warrendale location but same basic operation as West View location). They're reputable. I just commented in the other thread that I think their hours are weird, and that keeps me from going back, but I've have generally good dealings with them. And Stu, who you might find knows a thing or two about bikes, and about riding, recommends them.

@IB -- Sorry. Should have thought of this before that last post. Have you stopped by Performance Bikes in East Liberty (same Plaza as Trader Joes)? They might have something of the sort you are looking for, at a reasonable price. And they often offer "sale" prices.

Is the difference between the 26' and 700c wheels a big deal?

Not really. 700c implies a different kind of pump head (Presta) and there's a much smaller range of knobby tires available. But a much larger range of smooth-ish tires.

If it wasn't totally obvious (given the different units of measure), 700c is larger than 26". You can run a variety of road tires, hybrid tires, cyclocross or thinner 29er tires on 700c. I ran a set of schwalbe big apples on 700c rims for a long time and loved the cushy ride. I lived in a land with no hills though. 26" is a popular size for mountain bikes, so you'll be able to find plenty of heavy knobbies in that size, if thats your thing. If you're biking only on the road, and you aren't super short, I'd lean towards 700c if everything else is equal.

I was at scholl's shop and LL bean again. I am going to go back next weekend and see if I can sit on some of their Medium size bikes and make the decision then, but I'm leaning toward that first bike I posted.

Anyone have any experience with LL bikes?

oh btw, I am 5'6" if that has any impact on my decision. I'm short!

Don't believe everything you read about quoted bike weights. They are notoriously wrong.

I have a Specialized Crossroads that I bought used from ProBikes (and subsequently nothing else). I've been pretty happy with it. I do a mix of road biking and (primary) trail riding in Frick.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/41208_477009603625_778173625_6668589_5083317_n.jpg (I forget how to post images here.)

I'm a pretty new biker too, so I'm planning on signing up for the Sunday Series classes at Free Ride this summer to learn about bike maintenance and repair. They have a variety of drop-in classes as well.

http://freeridepgh.org/learn/adult-classes/

5'6" isn't so short -- it's about average for humans. But besides what I said about there being no real difference between the sizes, smaller wheels also allow for smaller frames, and probably eliminate toe/tire overlap for someone your size.

The first time you buy your own bike it can be very difficult to judge what is going to work best for you. You seem to be considering at all the right stuff and looking at bikes suited for what you want to do. Ultimately, it's a situation of buying one and figuring out what you like as you learn to ride more and in different terrains.

On a somewhat frivolous note, I encourage you to buy one that just feels "cool" to you. One that you want to bring home and spend some time with. You can go through all the lists and checks and find something that meets certain criteria, but there's nothing like getting a bike you just really like the look and ride of. If you get one that really sings to you, you'll ride more and it won't seem like job.

also, do get a good u-lock and not one of the cable locks that are too easily cut. and try out flock of cycles sometime (they have a webpage now) when you're ready to do some more riding in traffic and general city biking.

I'm only 5'5". Aside from the fenders on my commuter, I've never had any trouble with toe/tire overlap on any of my 700c bikes.

Given that the OP is mainly talking about riding roads, I'd steer toward 700c.

Also, 700c or 26" wheels can come in either presta or schrader, so if you're looking at a 700c comfort bike, don't be surprised if the valve still looks like the one on your car tires (that Runaround you linked to looks like it's Schrader).

Thanks all for your help.

When I stood on the bike, I was on tip-toes. The guy said that is a good position to be in, and my knee was slightly bent at full extension.

Sara, of all the bikes I have looked at, the one I'm considering is the one that I happen to like the best.

You'll have to post a nice photo of the new bike once you get it home!

I haven't seen anybody stress it, but most people have agreed whenever it's been brought up...

The. Most. Important. Thing. About. A. New. Bike. Is. The. FIT.

I thought I wanted a "comfort" bike last year. I went in to Dirty Harry's in Verona, and the sales guys spent forever with me, fitting different frame sizes and styles, asking me to describe how it felt ("leany on the hands" or "heavy on the feet" or whatever, while sounding useless to me, actually helped them find the right size). I swear to god I tried every single bike in the store. I found out from the experience that what I thougt I wanted was NOT at all what I wanted (I tried it first, it was nice, and felt just ok, not "my god I never want to get off"), and what I thought would be totally unacceptable and painful (road bike) turned out to feel pretty good (though ultimately I went with something similar but slightly different). I now have a bike that feels fantastic to ride (specialized sirrus) and bears little in resemblance to my original plan other than price.

Not saying your Bean bike isn't The One. Just saying make sure that proper fit, by someone who knows what they're doing (and it sounds like your Bean shop guys do), may open up doors for you that you are convinced are closed. For instance, though I didn't buy a road bike, or a mountain bike, I now have a pretty good understanding of what fits me in those categories and what they should feel like - and can rent bikes or borrow bikes with confidence that I can adjust them appropriately and have a wonderful ride on them, rather than "oh, I don't ride road bikes, too painful" which was my previous thinking.

Good luck, sounds like you're about to have a LOT more fun riding

A "real" bike shop (or even REI) will have that kind of selection. It seems to me that Bean's is pretty much targeted at low-intensity, low-frequency trail-riding. But hey, you can always ride this bike for a year or two and then maybe you'll have a better idea what you want.

@ejwme: I'm in a snit with your bit about fit. Not "The Big Snit", http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90SIuISIVB8, as there's no sawing involved....yet.

The description of your experience suggests learning about fit, not "being fitted" by "reputable and knowledgeable personnel". You gleaned a little from the salesfolk about fit, enough so you now "...can rent bikes or borrow bikes with confidence that I can adjust them appropriately and have a wonderful ride on them..." So you begin by emphasizing how important it is to be fitted to a ride, and end by remarking how you can now fit any ride to your form?

I take issue with the conclusion you draw from your experience, that the OP should get fitted. "Fitting" has elements of religion to it these days, and like the various faiths, each has something to offer. Sheldon's right in his revisionist approach that top tube length is most important(http://sheldonbrown.com/frame-sizing.html), and Grant's right in writing a "handful of seatpost" is right for road bikes, (and two handfuls for mtb works for me.)(http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/choosing_a_frame_size).

The sense I have from the OP's OP is that salespeople at bike stores are not the resource they wish to consult for this knowledge. Peterson shares the OP's concerns: "A keen-eyed salesperson can make a decent assessment of your position, but (1) not all salespeople have the skills to do that; (2) most are loathe to admit ignorance even when they have it in abundance; and (3) if a salesperson is accustomed to fitting people poorly and thinking "yeah, that's good!" then you're likely to get the same treatment. Sometimes he's been misfitting riders most of his adult life." http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/fit_sizing_position

My suggestion to the OP is a big dose of homework. Read Sheldon (linked above and his articles for New Cyclists: http://sheldonbrown.com/beginners/index.html). Read Grant Peterson and the Riv site (http://www.rivbike.com/article/bike_fit/fit_sizing_position). Read Thorn's hidden ruminations of how handlebar choice dictates frame sizing, tucked away in the .pdf brochures for their bikes(http://www.sjscycles.com/thornpdf/ThornRavenTourBroHiRes.pdf). Read whomever anyone on here suggests. Knowledge is good. When your hands tingle, you'll know the handlebars need to be raised, and that you don't need a different ride. Every time I see the prominent "Tower of Knowing Shit" at Pitt I am reminded that knowing shit be good.

My personal, admittedly anecdotal and likely idiosyncratic experience may not only invalidate all I've written, but be helpful to the OP? I rode a Schwinn Varsity Sport from prepuberty to HS graduation. My younger brother had a larger Continental which "felt" perfect to me riding, but surprised me in my pants when I'd straddle it suddenly. After many intervening years and much experimental riding I now find my most comfortable ride is a 1972 Sports Tourer with a 24" hand fillet brazed cromo sleeved frame. Because it comes up so close to my pubic bone I had some trepidation as to it being a "proper fit". Only in seeking justification for this "dangerous" arrangement did I read Peterson, who ably validated my already entrenched belief system. (I have, or can have, "proper" pbh clearance with 700C (622mm), 650Bs (584mm) or 26" (522mm) wheels, rather then the 27" (630mm) single piece alloy wheels, (db spoked), with which it presented. I have an almost identical mid eighties World Sport that feels "cramped", and sure enough, it's the same as the ST but the top tube (and the handlebar stem reach) is shorter by a few cm. So I'm in process of slapping on 26" wheels (and eventually 650Bs when I have the time to build them) with long reach calipers and a handlebar extender with mtb or perhaps comfort handlebar), and converting it to an around town ride, because the tire clearance is Surly crazy and affords much flexibility. (The ST remains my tourer because of the longer wheelbase and sweet familiar ride; I can ride all day long. I suspect a Riv might work for me too, as the geometry is nearly identical to my ST.)

Did my youthful riding of the Varsity mold my body to most comfortably accept the ST as the best fit, like braces or foot binding shape the body to our desires? Or did it shape my mind so that's what a good fit feels like to me? Likely both. (I always ask what someone rode as a teen.)

Is it, as McLuhan scribed, a matter of "We shape our tools, and thereafter our tools shape us"? Or more "I don't necessarily agree with everything I say"? I don't know, as "(a) point of view can be a dangerous luxury when substituted for insight and understanding."

Well, that's my nit to pick with your bit about fit: this twit's snit's quit. (Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.)

And OP, try reading some fitting riding writing?

Have to truck in this one too, though apropos of nothing: "The car has become an article of dress without which we feel uncertain, unclad, and incomplete in the urban compound." (Actually, I feel more comfortable in urbanity on any of my pedalcycles.)

I see some sawing that needs to be done...

oi fungi, I definitely wasn't clear then. or perhaps I should have a little of whatever you're having.

I didn't mean that I could adjust any bike to fit me. Not enough adjustments in the world for that. But I know enough now about sizes/adjustments and enough about how a bike is *supposed* to feel when it's *right for me* to identify what is/isn't right, and probably get close enough to manage when renting/borrowing rather than dismissing an opportunity because "road bikes hurt" or "I can't stand these handlebars" - both problems I'd had in the past. I chalked those problems up to me (out of shape, having bad habits, having unreasonable preferences or, my personal favorite, "having stupid hands") rather than a seat being way too low/high, handlebars being way to low/high, or bikes just being too huge/small for me. I learned. From a human. Go figure.

I know enough now to identify if a bike to be rented/borrowed is an appropriate size for me or not. I know enough such that, if it's an appropriate size, I can get the seat to a comfortable height. I know enough such that, if it's not an appropriate size, I will not blame myself or the bike for the discomfort a stubborn "well I'll try it anyway because I really want to bike" will get me.

Ok, if you take issue with my suggestion that the OP get fitted, then I'll instead suggest that he/she ensure that whatever bike ends up being purchased fits. Oh, wait, telling that to someone who may not undertstand what it means, like me before I actually tried different sizes/styles of bikes that someone kept fiddling with until I said "yes, that's amazingly comfortable in a way I'd not imagined possible", might not actually hold meaning. Like telling someon who's never seen a tea cup to keep their pinky up while drinking - accurate but meaningless.

I told my story because the start of his/hers sounded like the start of mine, and I have hopes that his/hers ends as happily as mine. 1) Started on old beater bike that someone else suggested I use. 2) hated the way road bikes felt, too leany and wobbly tires. 3) liked it, but wanted to upgrade to something much more comfortable, but able to handle hills. 4) walked into a bike store and had a crappy experience (except I flew over the handlebars, which was kinda cool, but very scary)

Here's where my story gets good, and I hope s/he has as good an experience, be it the same or totally different. 5) went to local place, decided to start from scratch and ditch all preconceived notions. 6) tried every bike in store, with every adjustment possible, for many hours, twice. I was a total PITA. 7) found bike that feels like extension of my body only much better, for better price than expected. girl and bike lived happily ever after.

Silly me for sharing what I thought might help.

Oh self styled "silly" ejwme, why must you start off insulting me, disparaging my humble efforts to help the OP by implying I'm under the influence of something? Certainly one would think such ad hominem insinuations are beneath the likes of you?

No matter. I've no wish to be contentious.

Your post was helpful, just not in the way you maintain. You learned to fit a bike to your needs from salespeople you pumped for information at a store. The OP appears less then enthusiastic with that approach. My suggestion is that the OP reads about the varying "religions of the fit", from a variety of vantages. Knowing shit is good.

Please keep sharing; your posts are always interesting.

To the OP, the most important thing is to either walk into a bike shop informed, or to have someone with you that is informed. From my own experience, the brightest mechanic/salesman in a shop is pretty much useless to you if you don't ask the right questions. Most salesman won't even discuss bicycle fit with you if you don't flat out ask them to help you find an appropriate size and even then, a good fit requires you to have knowledge of what is normal so that you can help the salesman determine when you are most comfortable. Fit requires a conversation in my opinion. Clearly, you are on the right track already since you are here asking questions.

Fungicyclist posted some great links and they will answer your questions better than anyone here can. Pay close attention to Sheldon Brown's beginners guide as it is full of good info, especially about common bike pain and how to avoid it so that you can enjoy your ride.

A couple other thinks that I'd recommend:

http://www.myra-simon.com/bike/whatbike.html

and this one, although mountain bike specific is more or less true for most bikes http://www.bikeradar.com/gear/training/article/technique-perfect-mountain-bike-fit-29498 the article also points out an important note, which is that road bikes and mountain bikes are sized differently and I'm not just talking cm vs inches. It's best to explain with an example, my road bike size is about 54cm frame (or 21inch after conversion), however my size in mountain bikes is 17.5 or so. There is also a lot of variation from one manufacturer to another, so you can't trust the numbers and often you can't trust the salesman. Ultimately, you need to have some idea of how things are supposed to fit so that you can accurately compare across brands and across different bike shops and even different styles. I think, that is more or less the point that ejwme and funji were trying to make, but coming at it from different angles.

My personal opinion, if they Bean bike feels right and you think you'll stick with it then go for it! Keep in mind that people who don't stick with their bikes frequently post them for sale on craigslist after a couple of rides and a year of the bike sitting in a garage doing nothing. Your best bet is to spend as little as possible, possibly even get a used bike, and take your time digesting everything that has been written above so that you will be ready to make a more focused purchase down the road once you've been riding for a while.

Don't be afraid to try out the department store bikes either, if that is all your budget can allow. The bikes aren't that bad, they just don't have a lot of longevity. They are perfectly fine introductory bikes, however, they come in a one-size-fits-all category so unless you are average all around, you are better off sticking with a bike shop. Not to mention, an actual bike shop will always keep you on track with tune ups and advise when things go wrong. Good luck!

wow, this might end up being the most polite flamewar in the history of the internets.

Civility is not dead, sir salty, "he's resting".

Nice links, headloss; bookmarked.

LOL to all. It's Pittsburgh, yinz are polite like that!

Additionally,

I think the LLBEAN bike is a good choice but with some caveats. It is more or less the same as a Trek 7100 series which is very popular with new cyclists. As someone else mentioned, it's called a "comfort bike" and that is more or less the average price that you will pay for one with introductory components. You should at least look at a Trek 7100 before making up your mind, as it would be better to develop a relationship with a bike shop going forward. Most major manufacturers have something similar; some offer a comfort bike with 26" inch wheels while others offer them in 29"/700c size wheels. They are all priced as entry level and they are all pretty much Swiss-army knives in that they can do anything and everything.

My only advise is to find a bike with a ridged fork if you are going to be riding up any hills. The suspension forks that they put on intro level bikes are nothing more than a gimmick. You need a ridged fork or a higher end fork with something called a lock-out to really ride comfortably.

As for wheel size, 26" wheels come with fatter tires and are better off road. 700c/29" wheels absorb roughness from the road better and in a way act as shock absorbers; they also roll faster once you get them up to speed. Neither is better but my personal preference is to have a 700c wheel. Most mountain bike tires (26") are about two inches to two and a half inches wide. 700c tires range from 3/4 an inch to an inch and a half in width. The bikes that tend to have the wider road bike tires are usually marketed as either comfort bikes, fitness bikes, or cyclocross bikes (all three types of bike are very different but share a similar tire).

I think that fitness bikes are the best all around intro bike. A trek 7.1 has nothing fancy, no gimmicks, it's just a bike to ride and you can frequently get last year's model on sale for about $350. I'm helping my girlfriend to search for such a bike now. Here is a list of that sort of bike made by various manufacturers:

Trek (fx), Specialized(sirrus), Kona (Dew), Cannondale (Quick), Marin (Sausalito/a bunch of other ones, sold at REI), Jamis (coda/Allegro), GT (Tachyon), Fuji (Absolute), Raleigh(Misceo/Cadent), Scott (SUB).

There are also dual sports, which are similar to "comfort bikes" in that they have a front shock, how ever they are a little more road worthy:

GT Transeo, Gary Fisher-dual sport,Specialized Cross Tail, Fuji Sunfire, Marin (various), Scott Sportster, cannondale quick cx

The dual sports and fitness bikes are more agressive, the seat and handle bars should be at about the same height, you lean forward (but not nearly as far forward as you do on a road bike), they are still considered an upright bike. A comfort bike on the other hand, such as the LLBEAN will have the handlebars significantly higher than the seat which is nice on a flat surface but they really aren't designed well for hills.

So in short, go with a hybrid (they are all hybrids) but avoid the comfort bikes with the gimmicky suspension if you are going to ride on hills and stick with a fitness bike or a dual sport. Just my opinion, some people on here are bigger fans of road bikes than I am. I don't have anything against road bikes, but I believe they are something that you grow into.

Oh, and I should clarify that the Trek 7100 is a comfort bike and the 7.1fx is a fitness bike... a bit confusing, especially when the older version of the fitness bike was called the 7100fx. Just remember that FX denotes a ridged fork and it's all good.

I hope to try the LL Bean 700c wheeler as well. If they had a medium frame on display I would've tried it.

Can someone confirm for me that when sitting on the bike with feet at the floor (not pedals), you should be on tip-toes? If you're stopped at a long red light, do you stand like this or lean over to have a flat foot? Silly question but it seems like tip toes would get tiring.

How can I test the "fork" to make sure it's a good one?

Somewhere James Michener is twitching in fear that some of his books may have been a little too short, there's a lot of information on this thread.

Italian, on a standard design bike, when sitting on the seat at a stop, you should almost definitely be on tiptoes. In fact, when I'm at a stop, I usually get off the seat and stand over the frame. There are Electra bikes with what is called "foot forward" design that are exceptions, but that may be too much info for now.

Since you are looking for a simple bike to simply ride, two key things to look for:

1. The frame should just gently touch your undercarriage when standing over it with flat feet on the ground (off the seat) unless it is a womens frame, of course. We have not discussed gender here.

2. The seat should be adjusted so that when you are sitting, your downward leg is straight with the arch of your foot on the pedal when the pedal is in the lowest position.

Don't worry about anything else for now and go do some riding! But continue to ask questions as you go.

Thanks edmond. I am male

I was told (Perhaps falsely) that there should be a slight bend in your knee when sitting and your pedal is at its lowest.

I will read up on fitting, but it seems like the Bean medium size is good for me. I was worried because they have listed 5'6" as the lowest height for their frame, but it seemed comfortable and did seem to fit me. Off to work for the day. I will check back later.

Not false. To be exact, that's why I make the adjustment with the ARCH of the foot on the pedal and the leg straight. You should ride with the BALL of your foot on the pedal, then, that gives just the slight bend of the knee that you should have.

Or the heel, instead of the arch, just to take ankle position entirely out of the equation.

Yeah, or heel.

oh - and note ('cause it caused me SUPER headaches) - different shoe soles may affect the height your seat, especially if you're prone to light sandals in the summer and heavy boots in the winter. People who get specific cycling shoes don't have this issue, people who ride in whatever they're wearing like me, from flip flops to steel toed work boots, may have that issue. My personal tolerance for the difference starts off pretty high and decreases with distance traveled.

Good point.

I'm going to toss a hand grenade here, but keep some perspective regarding "bike fitting". To illustrate my point, I volunteer to go to Copenhagen for 2 weeks, and I will ask every cyclist I see if they have had their bike "fitted". That should be good for a chuckle. They will instantly know I'm American, we obsess about things. Go ride.

edmonds59, I don't think you should go alone. I volunteer to go with you, just to make sure we record all of the answers...hahahhaa

well, obviously you two are going to need some logistical support. i think we should probably head to belgium, also, just to vary the sample a little bit.

I'd be curious to see how their average distance traveled compares to ours. When I was doing 10 miles a commute (one way) on a bike that wasn't adjusted properly (I'll avoid saying "fit"), I struggled but did fine. Over 15 miles single trip hurt, over 20 one way did nerve damage that lasted a few days. If I'd only been doing 1-5 mile trips like a proper urban utility cyclist, I may never have bothered with ... learning to adjust the bike to me. (again avoiding the word "fit")

And then there's the semantics issue: rather than say the word "fit", if somone uses the words "correct size" (like clothing or shoes, seems reasonable) and "adjusted for comfort" (again seems pretty reasonable, that's why the seat moves, right?), would the Copenhagenites laugh as hard?

Also, they have socialized knee repair.

It would be hard to imagine the Germans NOT having systematicly "correct" method of fitting bicycles.

Just saying.

At a stop, I usually stand over the top tube with my feet flat on the ground; I only stay in my seat if I can maintain balance with my feet on the pedal or if there is a nice high curve that I can prop up against.

To answer your other question "How can I test the 'fork' to make sure it's a good one?" Just try to ride up a hill or reasonable steepness and you'll see why the front fork can be a pain-in-the-arse. A rigid fork is just all around better for city riding, I wish they wouldn't bother with those cheap comfort-bike front suspension forks. You might be able to put up with it better than I can, we all have different tolerances. Better forks have a little dial and say "lock out" right on that dial But a bike with a lock out fork will pretty much raise the price well over $150 so you're best looking for a rigid fork when on a budget.

I would imagine that most bike shops have a rigid fork (no suspension) laying around that they can install on the LLBean bike if you buy that and later decide that the front suspension is a burden.

Also, you said: "I was worried because they have listed 5'6" as the lowest height for their frame." Going by most standards, I should be riding a 56cm road bike, not a 54cm one... if you go by height. I have short legs/short inseam for my size so I usually have to go down a size and make saddle and stem adjustments (some manufacturers, i.e. Gary Fisher, have a longer top tube and this isn't an issue). Anyways, point being, those height recommendations aren't set in stone.

You're right, Edmond, I'm probably over-analyzing. Believe me, it's not my personality to do so. But I'm glad I at least know the "issues." $350 is a lot of money for my budget, and I guess I'm just making sure I'm going to get a decent bike.

The only thing that's really boggling my mind is the 2 bikes I'm looking at and the fact that they have different wheel types.

I don't want the 700c tires to be so bad on trails that I can't venture into Frick occasionally. And I don't want the 26" tires to be so road-unfriendly that I can't navigate the hills and ride with traffic. But, I'm probably over-analyzing still.

Nothing is "road unfriendly" it would just be slower, might have less traction, and might wear down quicker on pavement. I used the cyclocross tires (700c) that came with my bike last summer, almost all road, but I did find a little dirt here and there. They rolled perfectly smooth on any roads, didn't corner real great, and the back one was totally bald 9 months later.

You could find a good compromise between tread and slick in either 700c or 26".

Thanks, Dwillen: Another dumb question: If I buy the 26" tire bike, would I be able to put 700c wheels on it, or vice/versa?

Nothing is "trail-unfriendly" either. I ride road slicks in Frick. In the snow. Okay, that actually sucked, but like dwillen said. You are over-analyzing. Just get the bike you like.

edit: no, you can't swap between 700c and 26" wheels. You can swap between 700c and 27", if you also do some significant brake modifications.

26" == 599mm (which is != 700mm, which is ~27.5in)

So, in a word "No" since, as Lyle points out, the brake geometry is not interchangeable (modulo your brake characteristics).

OT: [two more week before I can get on a damn bike again... grr]

The best way to choose is to just test ride both bikes and see which one feels more natural. Due to frame geometry, the 26" will often feel right to a smaller guy whereas the 700c will be more comfortable to a larger guy... if you are some where in the middle, test riding is the only way to tell.

Surly has this to say, if it helps. "We offer the LHT as a frameset or as a complete bike. The ‘Trucker is available in a 26” wheel size across the size run, with an option for 700c in 56, 58, 60, and 62cm sizes. Some people prefer the larger diameter 700c, and that’s cool. 26" is a more popular size around the world, however, so you’ll more easily be able to find replacement tubes, tires, and rims should the need arise. Smaller wheels are also stronger than their 700c counterparts, so they’ll stand up better to rough roads and heavy loads. "

Of course, they are referring to international travel when they say that 26" is more popular, but it may in fact be easier to find tubes for one wheel over the other, perhaps that is something you should look at before making a purchase... see if either or both tube is readily available at your local bike shop. My brother has an odd Schwinn that was bought at Target and the tube size on it is very hard to find, so it's a good thing to check into ahead of time. When I get around to upgrading my wheel set, I'm going to give him my wheels and toss weird ones.

FWIW, both 26" and 700c tires come in a lot of widths; there are marginal differences but overall either one can be road and/or trail-friendly for a given tire width. For what you want to do, both on and off road, something in the 28-38mm range (26" are labelled in inches so 1-1/8" to 1-1/2") is probably what you want. I use 700x32 and think it's a pretty good compromise between speed and versatility.

Oh, Italian, I was not directing my comment at you, it was more toward "Cyclists" in general. I start to get cranky when things get so esoteric that it gets in the way of simply going for a ride.

Anyway, these days, with either wheel size there are enough tire options that you can tweak either kind more toward the road or trail, as you may find your riding tending.

AND you whichever one you go for, you can upgrade

inexpensively just with narrower faster tires as your skills,

fitness, and range improves.

Salty and I were thinkin along the same lines.

@Ahlir/Lyle: Likely a typo, but 26" mtb = 559mm, and 700C = 622mm yielding a near two and a half inch difference. That said, I swap 559's onto my originally 27" wheeled World Sport (which presented with a 700C in the rear and a 27" up front: praise be on them Weinmann centerpull long reach calipers) with the aid of a pair of real crappy extremely long reach calipers. It's doable just not done often. And the above is completely irrelevant to the OP's bike choices, which are supported by braze-ons.

@Italianblend: Because of the rising popularity of 29ers, which sport 700C rims, off road options for the 700C rims have increased. In my experience, running a mtb (26" wheels) with road tires makes it rather "twitchy and harsher". A workaround sufficing for me right now is to have a fatter tire up front (1.75) and thinner in the rear (1.5). The fatter rubber up front works like a shock absorber and affords me some traction/stability in the mud (and tempers twitchiness, while the thinner tire in the rear makes a road ride a little easier. (Besides, mtbs just look wrong with road tires so at least when I glance down while riding I'm not aesthetically offended.) Your Mileage May Vary.

With either rim choice, you have many tire options. My suggestion is if you're riding more then 10 miles a pop, or planning to, go for the 700C. If you're only bebopping around town and tickling the trails at the local parks, go for the 26" rim option.

@headloss: If those "weird" Schwinns are 584's, could you think about tossing them in my direction when the time comes? I've an app for them (see World Sport mention above).

Addendum: I think I may have mistakenly previously written 26" = some number other than 559mm in this or some other thread. Apologies for any confusion and for the errata.

Sorry, they are just weird 700c. They are cheaply made, with twenty-four spokes and an extra long valve due to the deep-v of the rim. I just don't feel comfortable riding that bike with those wheels, although amazingly my brother managed to bike from Squirrel Hill to CMU for a year without a problem so I guess there is something to be said for cheap bikes.

I probably won't actually toss them anyways. I have a Trek 7200 with a bent chain stay that I might eventually brace/reenforce and use to ride around the house. The weird wheels and damaged frame will make a great match, don't ya think?

@fungicycle: thank you for pass but, actually, I was just being lazy and didn't bother to get the numbers right.

I've run different tires on front and back and like that option. Thanks for mentioning it.

I actually read only about half the posts, but here's my $0.02:

I put zero thought into fit. I spend nearly zero on bikes, aside from parts and lights. Most of my bikes are 30+ years old, and inherited or 2nd hand.

Practice on the flats, add hills when necessary. Eventually you'll make it up Commercial, Negley, even one of the Dirty Dozens if they're between Point A and Point B.

I get on and ride. That's what matters.

One of the funny things about these bike stores: there's no room in the store to test ride the bikes.

They should have a big treadmill. Or a squirrel wheel.

Pro Bikes is putting two extra floors on their Squirrel Hill shop. One floor is supposed to have a track for test rides.

Italianblend, that's why they make you leave something as collateral and let you take the bike out for a test drive! Or they should. I would never patronize a bike store that's so customer-unfriendly that they won't let you take their bikes out for a spin before purchase.

A track is a good idea, but there are a lot of things it doesn't tell you about riding in the street: how does the bike handle on hills, are you badly jolted when going over uneven road surfaces, etc.

As it happens, on the rare occasion I've taken a bike out for a spin, I've never even been asked for collateral. But ProBikes is in kind of a tough location when it comes to sending people out with expensive merchandise.

at DH's, the little neighborhood between them and the river has lovely flat places, and then the hill just above them makes for some nice climbing - there's even a nice mix of cobbles, pavement, gravel, and brick to try out. Then again I have the totally unsubstantiated/subjective view that DH's is pretty much perfect.

I want to thank all of the people who replied to me. I only started this last Sunday and there are already 2 pages of replies. You've all been very kind to take the time to respond and reply to me. I'm glad there were no "lol you newb, go to a real shop, not llbean lolz."

I think ejwme and edmond said it best when they told me to try bikes, and just go ride!

I'm sure I'll have more newbie questions for you all.

I went back to LL and tried both bikes. The 700c bike was a little too big for me, so I took the acadia cruiser for a test ride on the mall sidewalk. I really liked it. The gears were easy to change and really made a difference in pedal ease and speed, which will greatly help on hills. They are going to assemble a new one for me today and I should have it by dinnertime (although I will have to borrow my mother's car to actually transport it home).

I am certain I will have many more questions for you all. Thank you for all of your kindness and time in replying to me.

Congrats on your *first* bike, can't wait to see what you buy next! :p

I got it home, only to discover the chain was rubbing against the derailer...and the gears don't shift to the lowest sprocket... I have no idea how to fix this. I assume the chain isn't on the correct gear...so I have to lug it back up to the north hills tomorrow morning. I should've test ridden it today...stupid me.

Sometime, you might want to consider taking the bike on a trip using a PAT bus. Taking the bike back to the store would be an ideal such adventure, as the 12 goes right to Ross Park Mall, runs once an hour on Sundays (Sunday and Monday are both on the Sunday schedule this holiday weekend), and leave Downtown at 15 past the hour.

My biggest problem for newbie bikers using transit is that the fare payment system here in Pittsburgh is based on a system designed in about 1957 and never re-thought. It's costly to use and a pain in the neck to figure out. (And as every regular on this board will attest, I'm one of the most pro-transit people you will ever meet.)

If you already have a Zone 2 monthly pass, go for it. Otherwise you're going to be out over $10 to make the round trip, and that's assuming everything else about the trip goes well.

Yeah, drive it.

ugh... sorry to hear that the shop couldn't be bothered to properly adjust the derailleurs. Good luck with getting it resolved. Not that I recommend you fix it yourself, I believe it's the shop's responsibility, but here are some links that will explain how to adjust them. At least this way, you have a better idea what is going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2j1gSwhsVN8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ngm6dr-1na0&feature=related There are plenty of other good videos out there as well.

This is a newbie question. Your derailleur might be fine.

http://www.google.com/search?q=trim+derailleur+chain+rub

http://www.google.com/search?q=cross+chaining

That's interesting...

So there are gears on your bike that you shouldn't be using because it puts the chain at an angle.

I did not know that.

But let me ask - if you are say in a certain gear, and you manually put the chain on another cog, or if it skips or is not on the correct cog, does the bike auto-correct this when you shift into another gear again? Or would you have to manually put the chain on the correct cogs?

In other words, if the chain is on a gear that doesn't match what it's set at, will it auto-correct, or do you have to fix that yourself?

You mean, if you reach down and pick up the chain with your fingers and place it on a different cog? Try it and see...

Italianblend - for the most part, if you're futzing with your bike, moving the things that move easily will not cause you severe problems that cannot be corrected by simply moving those same or additional things that move easily. You won't hurt your bike by fiddling with it if you're gentle.

That being said, I have found myself in the opposite boat. Being confident that I would not hurt my bike(it is metal, and thust stronger than me, right? heh), I've done things with it under great stresses and forces, thinking "if I push/pull/yank just a little harder it will work...". I am not a gentle person by nature. Nuance is hard work for me.

So Lyle isn't trying to get you in trouble (at least not with that advice). Perhaps the second best thing to do with a bicycle, after riding it, is playing with it to see how it works and how it doesn't work. Remember you can always take it to the shop for them to fix it

And the whole chain at an angle thing was total news to me when I started too. I think it's still the most surprising thing I've learned about bikes (that or the "it's supposed to be easy, not hard" part about shifting and gears and whatnot - stripped some before I figured that out - see previous paragraph).

Have fun! (and hopefully see you on a ride soon )

Italianblend: There are gearing arrangements you want to avoid, big front gear (chainring)/big rear gear, and the small/small combination too. However, on a properly configured bicycle, these really should not present too much of a problem. And on a properly set up bike, you shouldn't have to tweak anything either. But it seems you'd like to, and I can't blame you.

From what you describe, it sounds like you need to loosen your low limit setting on your rear derailer. There's a small screw with an "L" next to it on the rear derailer. Turn that counterclockwise a rotation, and see if that doesn't remedy your issue with shifting onto the largest rear sprocket (lowest gear). (See Sheldon Brown's article on derailer adjustment: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adjustment.html)

As for the chain rubbing (I presume against the cage of the front derailer?), that is a front derailer adjustment issue, which could be a myriad of things. I have no quick mechanical fix, but you can "solve" the problem by "trimming", "nooging" the front derailer lever a little until the chain does not rub on the cage anymore. The bike is stupid, we are (allegedly) smart. Sometimes we have to be the brains for the machine. But with a new bike there should not be any need to trim, so have the shop attend to that ultimately.

Bike mechs have been built to auto-trim, most notably the suntour shifters, but they had problems. Bikes have been built to autoshift even, but I haven't tried one of them. Since bikes get bashed about just going out the door, delicate mechs that would accomplish fine tuning tasks for us don't tend to endure. We, (not me), are the brains behind the bicycle. It is just how it is.

Learn a bit about your bike and it will serve you well.

Thanks guys/gals.

I brought it into ll bean this morning. There was no bike tech on duty so I had to leave it. My bike was back in the shop in 16 hours!

It's possible something was shifted during the tight commute home in my small saturn. Perhaps I need a bike rack.

I am going to go to one of these free bike workshops soon so I can learn some more about the bike. Hopefully I'll get my bike back today, but it's looking doubtful... Maybe God doesn't want me to be a biker

Definitely don't feel discouraged - crap happens. Derailleurs are a bit fidgety by nature, and you do have to be careful if you put your bike in the car that they don't hit anything. Not that that was necessarily the cause of your issues, but definitely keep an eye on them.

I got the bike back home now.

I will say that I don't think many service shops would be open on a Sunday, so this was a nice advantage to LL bean.

Still, I don't like the fact that I had to call to see if my bike was done. If it was done, why didn't they call me when it was ready? end rant.

I dug out my old helmet. It looks soooooooooo lame

Gunna test her out tonight or tomorrow.

Is it normal after your very first ride to:

1) Have to re-learn walking (especially steps!)

2) Be surprised that some pretty flat roads made you tired

3) Are perplexed when riding in traffic and cannot for the life of you figure out how to trigger your green light at an intersection (without the help of a car)?

4) Oh this gear is easier to pedal, I'll choose this - oh wait, now I have to pedal more...maybe I'm just out of shape...

5) To injure your thumb...by putting your kickstand down? (Stupid me)

yep. that's how I was when i rode for the first time in years. I had back pain, but it went away. Just keep riding.

Arlington at east carson is impossible to trigger. that was pretty much the only red that I ran regularly and did not feel bad about.

Be surprised that some pretty flat roads made you tired

Riding a bike will really let you know how the road is sloped. After you've done it a while you hardly notice, but don't be surprised if people you're riding with still complain about the "hill" though.

Are perplexed when riding in traffic and cannot for the life of you figure out how to trigger your green light at an intersection (without the help of a car)?

Some people suggest placing your bike right over the cut of the sensor, but I've never been able to get this to work here in PA (other states calibrate their sensors to detect smaller objects). You can move up, or over, so the car behind you can trip the sensor, or you can just wait a complete light cycle and proceed through the red light when it is safe to do so. The light is malfunctioning, so it is legal in that case.

Oh this gear is easier to pedal, I'll choose this - oh wait, now I have to pedal more...maybe I'm just out of shape...

Experience will help you with that, but to start, try and keep the same pace (cadence) rotating the pedals, and adjust your gearing to make it easy/hard enough to keep that pace.

To injure your thumb...by putting your kickstand down? (Stupid me)

That is a new one on me. I always used my foot.

Haha thanks dwillen. I was so stupid. I stopped to adjust my seat and stepped to the right side of my bike. I leaned over to put up the kickstand with my hand and I got a nice looking blood blister.

You're right, some of those roads were sloped...but just a bit. I was pretty surprised how difficult it was.

This is the intersection I couldn't get. Where the 2 cars are. I stood there for several light turns. Sometimes on the white line, sometimes after. I could not make out the sensor pattern on the pavement. I even tried hitting the walk signal and it wasn't even working then.

Oh this gear is easier to pedal, I'll choose this - oh wait, now I have to pedal more

When I started, I switched to a lower gear on hills, then sometimes tried to pedal extra-fast to maintain my speed up the hill, and ran out of energy part way up. I'm still learning to try to maintain a constant cadence, and just let the bike go slower when tackling hills in low gear.

No kickstand injuries to report (no kickstand), but I've managed several fender injuries.

Italianblend, that all sounds pretty normal, even the kickstand thing. I don't think more experienced riders ever get over the little bumps and bruises, they just get used to getting little boo-boos all the time. It's a mechanical thing.

The intersection you show is a pretty crazy intersection. In situations like that, if I can't get a light to trigger, and I don't feel confident getting a safe time to cross, I'll pop up on the sidewalk and hit the pedestrian crossing button, and cross as if I'm a pedestrian, and I don't feel bad in the least. If whoever designed the infrastructure neglected to design for me, I'll work it however I have to.

Perhaps the second best thing to do with a bicycle, after riding it, is playing with it to see how it works and how it doesn't work.

Right. You'll learn more that way than you will from people telling you stuff on the boards.

re: induction loop sensors. Sometimes laying your bike sideways over the loop will help. I don't recall encountering any lights that don't trigger in Pittsburgh, but I could just be lucky. And a lot of the places I ride don't have those fancy lights anyway. I'll go check out that intersection on Braddock sometime.

The ones around Schenley plaza never trip. As near as I can tell they cycle on a normal pattern for commuting hours, and are triggered at other hours, but its tough to tell because there are almost always cars in the prior. If it is after 8 pm I just treat them as stop signs.

The one at the bottom of Greenfield Ave only triggers 1/10 times or so. Another one I routinely have to roll through unless I've got 3-4 other people with me.

I can confirm a flock of cycles can trigger the light at Greenfield Ave and keep it triggered for a reeeeeeally long time... I thought it was hilarious but the guy stuck at the red light didn't really seem to agree.

I never have had a problem with the light at the bottom of Greenfield Ave. Although, I haven't used it this year, so maybe they screwed up the calibration. You should report it to 311. In theory, aluminum frames should work as well as steel, but I do ride steel. Dwillen, do you ride steel or aluminum?

I thought the traffic-light-won't-trip problem was mentioned on PennDOT's bike laws page, but apparently not.

I believe the state law in question is the very last entry on this page, §3112(c)(2).

I have a steel frame. I line my wheels up exactly on the right hand cut of the sensor, or left, if I'm headed left.

The defective traffic light is covered on PennDOT's web site in the road riding safety section. There's lots of detailed safety advice in those sections, very helpful for novices.

It's adapted from a non-PennDOT booklet, so it contains advice that's odd to find on a government web site, like the suggestion to pressure your local and state governments to use bike-sensing detectors.

Italianblend - sounds like you're off to a fantastic start. You've got a lot of fun ahead of you (and yes, it gets exponentially easier - a second and third ride will prove it)

I never bother trying to trip sensors, I just pull as far forward as I can and stay safe, then wait for a car to come up behind me (usually not long). In monroeville at Northern Pike and... Haymaker? Mosside? whichever, the turn lanes are trip-only, won't trip to a bike, and I often had to coax cars behind me forward onto the sensor. For some reason people liked to stop about 6 car lengths back and just stared at me as I pointed to the sensor, pointed to the light, pointed to their car, and motioned them forward - sometimes through an entire light cycle. But I've noticed people not understanding the sensors when I'm driving a car, too, so it's not just a bike/car thing.