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Negley Run Blvd question.

I have never ridden Negley Run Blvd. and I have never ridden Washington Blvd. so I don't know what to expect when commuting on them. I will only need to ride a few feet on Washington as my destination is near the corner of Negley Run Blvd and Washington Blvd. 1351 Washington Boulevard to be exact. I just want to know how traffic is going up and down Negley Run, and would it be unwise to ride up Washington to 5th Ave.


marvelousm3
2012-03-10 18:09:59

in my experience, negley run isn't super heavily traveled, but traffic does like to go fast through there. if you take the whole lane, you should be reasonably well off.


i don't think i would ride washington boulevard between negley run and fifth if there was any way i could avoid it. come to think of it, i'm not sure i ever have.


hiddenvariable
2012-03-10 18:54:52

I've done Washington Blvd both down and up a few times to get to the oval. Speeds tend to get high (it's on my daily commute) but it's not terrible because there's two lanes and people understand that they should use the other lane to go around. Still wouldn't recommend it though. Take the whole lane for sure if you must use it.


I wouldn't ride on the right lane past the oval though (going towards Highland Park Bridge) as the shade tends to hide you.


Negley Run isn't that highly trafficked, but the pavement does get crappy towards the bottom. Still I'd suggest that over Washington Blvd.


rice-rocket
2012-03-10 19:00:05

I've even considered hitting Washington from Butler but that is a little on the busy side.


marvelousm3
2012-03-10 19:02:51

Its fine. if that is cross fit, it is at the

intersection and you dont actually ride wash

blvd.

cars go faster up than they do down. dark at

night have lights.


steevo
2012-03-10 23:25:39

@ steevo yup It's crossfit I'm commuting to part of my goals for 2012. I've decided that NOT riding up Washington is a better choice I'll go back up Negley Run even if my destination is Jail Trail. I don't feel real comfortable with Washington yet.

@ Rice Rocket How much of Washington do you ride, is it during rush hour and do you find it difficult.


marvelousm3
2012-03-11 01:46:59

my experience with Negley Run is that it isn't heavily traveled at all (road diet anyone?????), just be super aware of sight lines and shitty surface.


washington blvd is a somewhat different beast with better sight lines, a little more traffic, but similarly poopy surface and speeds.


dmtroyer
2012-03-11 04:05:47

Some years ago the city was talking about adding a bike path/lane/something along Negley Run Blvd, connecting the bike lane on East Liberty Blvd to a future bike path alongside Washington Blvd. Here's an old city page about it. I don't know the plan's current status.


steven
2012-03-11 06:02:22

Negley Run > Washington Blvd always.


If you are coming from the jail trail, it is not

THAT far out of your way if you are going

through shadyside then cut through mellon park

to ELB bike path. Probably 2 mins longer and

way safer. Washington Blvd (especially up) is

a nightmare


steevo
2012-03-11 11:40:19

Thanks for the advice everyone.


marvelousm3
2012-03-11 21:06:39

I concur with everyone here... if you do ride washington between Negley run and Butler, take the whole lane. I regularly did that back before I got decent gears and could tackle the hills on the back streets to get to my house (further out ARB near Verona). In rush hour, at the peak, it's not bad because people have to go slow. In rush hour, when traffic is moving, people seem to be less inclined to give you room.


On washington blvd, at all times: Do. Not. Relinquish. Your. Lane. Take it all.


The cyclists I see hugging the gutter scare the crap out of me, because drivers will try to pass between cyclist and another car, and the cyclist will always lose if there's not enough room.


Negley run, the worst part about it is the surface. It's better than it used to be, but still miserable.


Cross Fit is the shiznit. Your butt will be hardcore very vast. I question your sanity wanting to bike home afterwards, I'd totally check the WOTD before committing to it. When they used to be in Verona, I ran down the hill to them (2.5 miles), did the work out, then discovered I always had to walk home. Crossfit is the one gym I really don't have a philosophical problem driving to, because it regularly brings the pain in an incredibly debilitating yet satisfying way. Talk about getting in shape, you're headed the right place. Mike and Jen (owners) are awesome people, too.


ejwme
2012-03-12 18:20:46

oh, the other thing - if you are sitting at the light at Negley run waiting to turn right onto Washington BLVD, you'll have some time to make the turn and get onto the sidewalk or get to their driveway. Few cars make that right so you'll be mostly alone, and the other direction usually a left-turn lane will protect you for the next light cycle for a little bit of time (plenty to get where you need to be). Heading home, I'd walk to the inbound side of Negley run rather than make a left out of Crossfit and then a left at the light, but I wouldn't head up Washington Blvd, Negley run is too nice a ride and the end points are too similar to mess with Washington between Frankstown and Thomas Blvd (especially that tight overpass). Again, biking up Negley run after crossfit... if you're experienced at crossfit and think you can, you're likely right (and are superman, props). If you're new to crossfit, I'd strongly advise having a backup plan, at least for the first few times. Don't *not* go if you don't have a ride home, just maybe don't plan a tight schedule.


ejwme
2012-03-12 18:30:57

@ ejwme I have no experience with crossfit. the only workout I do is ride my bike. My master plan is on Tuesdays ride to crossfit then meet up for the Tuesday decaf ride. On Thursday go to crossfit in the morning then ride to CCAC Northside. Yes i'm crazy


marvelousm3
2012-03-12 19:36:54

@mm, that is insane.


tabby
2012-03-12 19:49:06

@mm: if you're that crazy, can I interest you in some casual ultracycling while you're at it? We've got some lovely brevets planned for this year...


reddan
2012-03-12 19:53:57

@ reddan you are one of the reasons I am working out. I refuse to let you beat me on a Tuesday ride again. And yes I would ride........eventually


marvelousm3
2012-03-12 19:58:10

you aren't going to want to ride you bike anywhere after cross fit if you are doing it right.


cburch
2012-03-12 22:36:29

@mm: Glad to be a source of motivation. :)


reddan
2012-03-12 22:39:37

whoa - I second cburch, if you CAN do a bike ride like that after Crossfit on Tuesdays, you're not doing crossfit right.


After crossfit, 90% of the time, your limbs will be complete jelly (that is the goal). Ironic, because it is eliminating the jelly-like attributes of your entire body, but that's crossfit. Honestly, and please don't let this scare you off, but it is not uncommon for people to push so hard at crossfit that they vomit. It's avoidable, but it can also sneak up on you.


I recommend doing Crossfit on days you don't do much else, and I wouldn't plan on winning any races the next morning. There's a workout called, ridiculously, "300", which I loved - it's got a couple things in it that really felt good... 4 days later. Day of and day after moving was pain. Every. Time.


Do crossfit. But don't kill yourself!


ejwme
2012-03-13 18:41:26

Ok I probably would do the 5:30 am class on Tuesday's go home take a nap and hopefully recover before the Decaf ride at 6pm. Tuesday and Thursday are the main days I can go and I really don't want to give up The Decaf rides. I will do crossfit a few weeks before I do try any riding after class to make sure I really can handle riding on the same day.


I promise I will be smart and not kill myself


marvelousm3
2012-03-13 18:54:45

@ejwme Do crossfit. But don't kill yourself!


Take that last advice literally.


My job lets exercise-related heat fatalities come to my attention.


Crossfit is up there with August double football practices in the south. Young, fit people can die doing it.


mick
2012-03-13 19:08:58

If you're going to an exercise class that requires you to leave in a car, you're certainly doing something wrong.


salty
2012-03-14 00:54:29

Just watched a crossfit class and everyone is right cycling home the first few classes or so is a no-go. I can see myself cycling from there after a few weeks.

@ salty have you ever seen a crossfit class


marvelousm3
2012-03-14 01:20:59

Just making an observation about how silly it is to go somewhere to "exercise" where you allegedly can't ride your bike home afterwards.


salty
2012-03-14 01:29:59

@salty: To be fair, there are cycling workouts that, if you do 'em right, leave you in such a puddle that you can barely pedal home in your granny. I don't know crossfit, but it doesn't seem like a terribly alien concept.


Not my cup of tea, but I'm willing to believe that such overloading, when paired with appropriate recovery, is a good way to rapidly increase fitness.


reddan
2012-03-14 01:35:48

Oh, I get the concept, I just think it's ridiculous. If they couldn't just assume everyone drove their cars there, they'd modify the workout.


salty
2012-03-14 01:41:44

If they couldn't just assume everyone drove their cars there, they'd modify the workout.


Or carpooled, or took the bus...


reddan
2012-03-14 01:54:22

@Salty: If you're going to an exercise class that requires you to leave in a car, and then get sick or pass out from the exertion you just went through, you're certainly doing something wrong.


Fixed that for you.


stuinmccandless
2012-03-14 03:15:04

I really don't think they care how you get home. I don't think they would change a thing if everyone biked there and back. The workout would stay the same and they would say get stronger.


marvelousm3
2012-03-14 09:34:03

You get strongest by exercising to failure, then recovering.


Back when I used to lift, there were times I had to wait a while before driving home because I couldn't hold the clutch pedal down without my leg shaking uncontrollably.


johnwheffner
2012-03-14 13:24:45

@ John that's what I witnessed yesterday. After their workout a few people sat outside the gym for more than 20 minutes. Most looked in no condition to drive. I think the workouts will be difficult even if the people who run the place bike home. It's just how the workout is designed


marvelousm3
2012-03-14 15:57:01

@mm don't just sit and wait. :) You have to drink/eat some carbs/proteins in 20 minutes range after workout and easy(!) spin/flexing for 2-3 minutes will bring more blood to muscles and help recovery. And no more heavy exercise for 48 hours. :)


2012-03-14 16:09:28

+1


marvelousm3
2012-03-14 16:21:26

Mr Marv, I'm very curious.


Your last "Why can't I have a body like Brad Pitt" message was:

Now that the holidays are over I stepped on the scale and I have gained all of the weight I have lost back


Is starting Crossfit a continuation of the recent change to healthy lifestyle that you started in the fall?


Or did you drop that as a fad and return to pepperoni-swilling couchdom as that message indicates you might have?


And now you are trying to do another night-day switch? Only this time, Crossfit is the magic pill instead of kale?


If this is indeed, a change you've been making for the moderately short time since the fall, then I apologize for my skepticism.


mick
2012-03-14 16:36:34

Now, now, Mick, let MrM sort it out. He seems to be new to trying to get healthier, he's allowed to make mistakes, learn, and adapt accordingly.


Semi-related note: something I realized recently... I used to consider myself a runner. But I got out of it a while back, for a variety of reasons. Past year or so, I've been trying to pick it back up. This past New Years I made a resolution - to become "a runner" again by the end of the year. Ever since January 1st, I've been "trying to pick it back up". I keep doing it, in fits and starts, but haven't been able to achieve my "daily" exercise goals (illness, work schedule, etc).


And then I had an epiphany. All I have to do is "pick it back up again" often enough, and before you know it, I'm almost there (averaged over time). Sure, it'd be better to regularly run every other day rather than run daily one week and sit on my butt the next, but it's better to run daily one week than not run at all. And if I manage to "pick it back up" the third week, that's good too.


In other words, if you make a night-day change often enough, it can be called 'recovery' and 'exercise', and be considered a healthy lifestyle on average. The trick is to keep working at it.


Separate but related note: some people can make moderate changes to lifestyle/diet/exercise, and in fact do much better with slow and gradual changes. My husband is one of those. He can eat cookies "moderately". Some people, on the other hand, do better jumping in the deep end feet first (cold turkey cigarette quitting, running daily, cutting out added sugar all together, etc). That's me - if I need to do add a behavior, I do better if I attempt to add it daily or otherwise go whole hog, if I need to eliminate a behavior I do better if I cut it out completely. I can't ease my way into things, I need the early frequent repetition to build the habit. My husband needs the warm-up time to adjust to the change. When allowed to make the changes our own ways, we can both get the same results - long term change. We just do it differently.


Another kale recipe: colcannon ( http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/tylers-ultimate/colcannon-recipe/index.html ) but it won't lose you any weight.


ejwme
2012-03-14 18:31:38

@ Mick check out my last several post from the Goals for 2012 tread http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/goals-for-2012/page/2 It's true before I started a healthier life style only to let the holidays slow down my progress. I have a different motivation now. I have been working in healthcare for over 12 years now, and I have been helping treat the cause of poor living and not preventing it. I want to change my lifestyle the help other change theirs. I am taking crossfit to learn, I am also taking classes in nutrition and motivational speaking. I have seen to many people die because the didn't have the knowledge, the will power or the encouragement to change their life. edmonds59 put it in better words on the goals for 2012 tread but I think you get the idea.


marvelousm3
2012-03-14 23:35:09

Marv, I think I understand the motivation.


For me, trying to give knowledge on healthy lifestyles includes strongly discouraging unfit people from starting extreme exercise programs without a healthy buildup.


You CAN change your life if you want, dude. I don't want to say anything that might discourage that. I remember where you work. You need to be mentally strong to work there, for sure. You can do this.


I beleive if you want to walk the line, you have to do the time. It's not "8 months of hell and you're done."


There's plenty of people that have the willpower to lose a few pounds a week - but don't have the willpower to maintain a healthy weight. Every 350 pound person I know lost over 100 lbs in a year, once. (At this point, I believe it's part of the typical 5-year process of going from 290 to 350.)


Sustainability is what can make it healthy. Not willpower.


There are plenty of people that have the willpower to become ripped - but don't have the willpower to stay fit.


Like the founder of Crossfit.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/12/22/fashion/thursdaystyles/22Fitness.html?pagewanted=print


Mr. Glassman, 49, a former gymnast from Santa Cruz, Calif., walks with a slight limp because of a knee injury, and at 5-foot-7 and 185 pounds admits he should lose weight. He began developing CrossFit more than two decades ago, but he says that he spends so much time running the business now that he no longer regularly does the routines.


mick
2012-03-15 00:54:16

@Mick, I have the same reaction when I see a bicycle shop sell a race bike to someone just starting out on a bicycle... no wonder they don't stick with it! You'd think for that reason alone there would be more commuters and touring bicycles out there.


headloss
2012-03-15 01:00:09

@ Mick you are 500% right. This is a decision is something that I have taken a lot of time to think about. It's something that takes more work and dedication than I even expect. I just want to help change lives, I can't cure cancer but maybe I can help prevent most other ailments. I understand your bluntness and what you are saying. You have helped me realize how difficult this can be but how rewarding it can be if I succeed


marvelousm3
2012-03-15 01:05:03

hey mm, what's the monthly cost for the cross fit gym? once I'm done with pt for my leg i'd like to start doing it again.


cburch
2012-03-15 02:03:00

@ cburch crossfit on Washington is $95 a month if you go 3x a week. $125 and you can go unlimited times a week. Crossfit on 21st street Southside is $80 a month for 2x a week with unlimited yoga, or it's $135 a month with unlimited times a week and unlimited yoga.

(edit) there is also a crossfit Shadyside I don't know their pricing.


marvelousm3
2012-03-15 02:08:06

@ Marv - thank you. I was worried that I was as little strident there.


But I'm less than 100% right.


Some people actually do manage a permanent weight loss in a relatively short time. Some people will start Crossfit and start a long-term Crossfit coaching career within months. Some novices buy racing bikes and become randonneurs and crushers of commonwealths and such.


Some folks will win the lottery.


Sadly, from my perspective, a lot of people make a good - or even great - living convincing people to Lose! Weight! Fast! and/or sell them racing bikes when they haven't ridden. ( "'Road bike?' That sounds exactly like what I need!")


You want to move your career into health and fitness, you have to balance that - financially and ethically.


I suspect a lot of people that say "You can give me your money to show how to do what I did!" were NOT actually overweight couch potatoes They were always fit, slender people. They've just learned how much a good self-tranformation story can up their bottom line.


So, yeah, pull it all together.


Talk to people you know are fit and aren't trying to sell you anything. Let Reddan build you up to a couple middling-long populaires. The triathletes will change your life if you give them a chance. I bet the bike polo people do some exercise.


There are plenty of people here who could tell you ways to change a life around. There's people who used to drive and don't anymore, for example.


Get some muscle soreness under your belt before you wander down to Negley Run and Washington.


Signed,

Grumps-R-Us.


mick
2012-03-15 02:25:37

@ Mick thanks. I actually will talk to more people before I go.


marvelousm3
2012-03-15 11:08:11

To borrow a phrase from ejwme, Good-on, boys. I'm feelin' the love here...


atleastmykidsloveme
2012-03-15 11:47:29

I'm super glad y'all sorted it out. (ALMKLM, I borrowed it from the Aussies, but I'm sure they wouldn't mind either :D )


BUT...


My favorite phrase is always... "Why wait?" (this is not only a motto but also a personal pit-fall)


The trick to starting crossfit as a (comparatively) newbie is to pace yourself, swallow your pride, and let the trainer scale things for you. You do that, and you'll be able to keep your lunch and walk out of there tall and slightly wobbly, but just fine. You try to keep up with the regulars, and you'll get absolutely destroyed.


I'm not saying don't talk to people (it's always a good idea, and fun). I'm not saying don't try anything else (my general motto for exercise is: yes!). But why wait? Keep an eye on the web site for the WOTD, try a few at home (there are some that use no equipment at all), wait for a really good one to come up (like a tabata or a 300 or something nice and crazy fun), then go and try it. Don't try it for the first time when they're doing 5 sets of 2 reps of clean and jerks or something equally... fun only for seasoned lifters.


There's also one in Cranberry, I've never been, those prices sound familiar for it though. Most crossfits do respect each other's memberships, too (if you're traveling somewhere for like a week or so), though a phone call or email to confirm is advised, as a few don't.


MrM - If those are really your long term goals, I'd definitely encourage at least trying crossfit for a month at some point, even if you have no intention of using it to personally get in shape. That way, when people ask you about options, you're better informed and can help them. My favorite yoga instructor regularly went to yoga classes all over the city, tried out every new teacher and studio she could find - not to scope out competition, but to stay informed on what was going on in the area, the other options her students had. She regularly would make recommendations for other instructors for students to try when asked (and we always asked, because she insisted on taking 4 months off a year).


ejwme
2012-03-15 13:34:19

I'm still doing crossfit, in fact I start on the 20th. But because I am trying to learn all I can about exercise an nutrition I am talking and learning from everyone I can. I probably worded things wrong when I said "before I go". What I mean is I'm going to do my homework and learn as much as I can before my first day at crossfit.


marvelousm3
2012-03-15 13:58:41

Leslie bonci will be the speaker a tthe next Cafe Scientifique at the Science Center On Monday April 2nd. If you have not heard her talk aobut eating, and nutrition, it would be worth attending. I have heard her speak at least 3 or 4 times but intend on going to this.


helen-s
2012-03-15 16:56:51

@ ejwme I did not listen to your advice and rode my bike to Crossfit. My instructor told me he sometimes has trouble driving home after crossfit and can't imagine riding a bike afterwords. You both were right, I barely made it halfway up Negley run before I had to vomit. Then walked my bike to Target and had mrs. marvelous pick me up there.

Negely Run traffic is a bit faster than I would like it to be and the road surface is pretty bad.


marvelousm3
2012-03-20 22:30:30

maybe next time you'll make it 4/5th of the way home, then the next time 9/10th and then, eventually, you'll make it to your own welcoming toilet! ;)


Sounds like a great work out! Gold star for mr. marv!


headloss
2012-03-20 22:35:25

@ headloss my plan is to always bring my bike even if I need to walk-ride-walk-ride, hopefully in time I'll ride all the way home.


It would be funny that even after a year of crossfit reddan will still easily beat me on any ride.


marvelousm3
2012-03-20 23:25:11

Is the crossfit workout designed to make you a faster rider? It sounds like some kind of intense muscle bulking program, but i don't know too much about it.


pseudacris
2012-03-21 02:03:52

@ Pseudacris Crossfit is geared for endurance athletes. Runners, cyclist, swimmers, triathletes, and martial arts. It doesn't bulk you up but it gets you fit and lean muscle. Look it up on you tube it's fun but really intense.


marvelousm3
2012-03-21 02:22:58

^ woah, looks intense!!


pseudacris
2012-03-21 02:47:40

well done MrM, well done :D


The thing is, you're not supposed to plateau with crossfit (i.e., "get used to it"). Though you should be better able to walk that fine line between completing the workout the way it was designed and being able to function afterwards, if you ease off too much you're denying yourself the benefit of it.


When I was doing it regularly, there were people who'd been doing it for YEARS that still were wobbling on the way out sometimes.


Watch for keywords in the WOTD description before you head over. Anything saying "5 rounds for speed" or TABATA, plan on walking a lot and risk tossing cookies. Anything saying "max weight" with low rep and set numbers, plan on making it just fine, even joyriding after would be ok.


though the guys that run that gym often post a second workout on the "max weight" days because, honestly, doing 5 sets of 1 rep of squats just doesn't do it for many people.


It doesn't take too long to figure out what the deal is. You'll be a pro in no time :D


ejwme
2012-03-21 16:15:06

"The thing is, you're not supposed to plateau with crossfit (i.e., "get used to it")."


EJ, you have a point! @mr.marv, you will eventually plateau and need to up the ante; keep that in mind and don't push yourself needlessly at first. It might be smart to hold off on the bike until your body starts to adjust to the work out and then push it to another level by reintroducing the bike ride home at the appropriate time. Just something to consider.


headloss
2012-03-21 16:59:32

I'm not convinced that exercising until you vomit is a good idea.


"[insert activity X here] 'til you puke ! ! !"


Seems unhealthy for all values of "X."


mick
2012-03-21 17:06:56

When I ran track in HS, I pretty much puked after every race. When I coached, I used to give coupons for ice cream cones to anyone on the team that puked after a race or workout to lessen the negativity of it.

I say do you workout, then ride home- it may be difficult at first, but you will adapt. That is what training is all about. The only thing to be aware of is otoo much workload over a period of time which may suppress your immune system. If you do not recover from hard sessions after 3 days, it may have been too hard. But remember there is 48 hour delayed onset soreness, so you may feel worse the second day. Mine currently usually peaks around 36 hours.


I do not know anything about this crossfit regimen- how long is the workout, and how much of it is movement vs rest? It can't be much harder than training as high level track athletes, which may mean running 70 plus miles per week, 3 hard workouts per week and two weight room sessions.


helen-s
2012-03-21 21:44:34

what people who haven't done crossfit are missing is that the workouts scale to your ability. you are constantly adding weight, resting less, doing more reps, changing movements, etc. its half an hour of the most intense workout your body can handle followed by recovery and ideally a low key activity later in the day or a normal weight room session depending on your goals.


cburch
2012-03-21 22:28:39

I probably would not have puked if I had not push myself so hard up Negley Run after the workout. I was trying to increase my speed because of the speed of traffic passing me. Riding my normal commute today was not too hard and felt good on the way home from work today. They told my to space my workout out a few days so not to overwork myself.

I'm also going to try a Crossfit at the South Side Crossfit location and the Shadyside one just to compare and choose the best one for me.

I'm hoping Crossfit will prepare me for the Dirty Dozen this year.


marvelousm3
2012-03-21 23:21:49

I was thinking about my response while riding home, and felt I needed to add more. If the leaders of the crossfit program do not scale it to each persons current ability and fitness level, they are doing customers a disservice. Maybe a big factor is that patrons are customers. Mr M, it sounds like you are getting some perspective on the whole thing- just remember physical change takes time.


helen-s
2012-03-22 01:06:27

I was trying to increase my speed because of the speed of traffic passing me.


this is the number one reason i recommend taking the low-traffic route home (e.g. 28th/brereton over liberty). it's so difficult not to push yourself harder when cars are flying by you, but it's so pleasant to feel your breath and legs going up a steep hill when you are by yourself.


also: if you think you can ride the dirty dozen, train for it and you can.


hiddenvariable
2012-03-22 03:12:20

@ helen s they did scale it way down. Instead of weights I carried a plastic bar that probably weighed 1 pound. I stood on boxes to do pull ups and I ran 200m instead of 800m. I believe they used a right mix of safety and hard exercise but just to be sure of that I am comparing other programs.

I am also planning on swinging by Yoga Hive to checkout yoga and see how it can improve my health, cycling, and reach my goal.


marvelousm3
2012-03-22 10:54:00

@ Hidden Variable I completely agree.


marvelousm3
2012-03-22 10:55:00

helen s - crossfit also is pretty difficult to describe in terms of intensity/duration/aerobic activity. The best answer to your question is "yes".


There are some workouts where you do 10 different activities for 30 seconds each, 5 seconds between each one, rest for 2 minutes, then repeat the whole thing 10 times or so. The goal there is to do as many pull ups or push ups or squats or whatever as you possibly can for that 30 seconds. Those are pretty intense, but you're working for speed so the weights are all body weight or less, so it's not so bad but it's fast enough that pacing is difficult. If it's recorded (sometimes is), it's harder, because you're shooting to break your PR. It's unlikely to toss cookies after that.


Then there's the workouts where you do a set number of reps, say 3, at the max weight you can possibly do 3 reps, for like 4 sets (or one rep for 5 sets). The point is to reach max weight in your 3rd or 4th set, you may not be able to actually complete the 4th set at the weight you chose. Those are NOT aerobic at all, and are boring unless you've got a PR you're shooting to break (even then, it's not exciting). You won't toss cookies after that.


Then there's everything in between.


The point is that, over a few months of 6 day cycles, you won't repeat a workout (no boredom), and each workout works on one or at most two of the four goals: agility, strength, endurance, and speed. Crossfit attempts to get it all in, just not on the same day. It is all scaleable, but the point is not to provide something easy to do before a vigorous bike ride. The point is to push you to your personal limit, wherever it may be that day. The trick is to plan adequately for the bike ride after, something made easier as you gain a better understanding of your personal limit (which, theoretically, is also moving).


Mick - you can totally do crossfit without tossing cookies. I never even came close to throwing up when I did it. But if there's stuff in your tummy and you're pushing yourself to the physical limit (in an attempt to move that physical limit out a little bit more each time), you're gonna hurl. You're asking your body to choose between spending the little energy you left it digesting food or healing muscles and connective tissue - healing will likely always win, which works out nicely since food is so darn easy to find that may be the point of the whole activity anyway.


Speaking of connective tissue - muscles improve fast, connective tissue slow. As you get into this, listen to your joints extra, extra hard. Use the granny gears, save your knees, back off the squats if you have to. You ARE improving just by trying, let everything catch up. I don't think you're the type to destroy yourself, but just in case. If you wait for a persistent twinge to bother you, you will regret it. If you're using advil or ibuprofen regularly to help get you through the "48 hours of soreness", back way off for longer than you want to. Repetitive stress injuries are the most obnoxious things on the planets. My mother had to stop dancing for a year and almost landed in a wheel chair because she didn't let her bones catch up to her new hobby, and didn't listen to her body because ibuprofen worked so nicely.


this makes me want to go do kettle bell squats.


ejwme
2012-03-22 14:37:02

thanks for the explanation, that is much more enlightening. I had this image in my mind that it was all max weight to failure type lifting, which, from my limited understanding of exercise science, is not necessarily for an endurance athlete.


dmtroyer
2012-03-22 14:54:38

It's worth noting that there are other fitness philosophies that share some of CrossFit's ideas (without the competitive aspects of CrossFit). For example, Gym Jones.


bjanaszek
2012-03-22 15:29:25

which is different, one hopes, from jim jones.


hiddenvariable
2012-03-22 15:35:51

Don't buy any sports drink there.


johnwheffner
2012-03-22 15:38:27

It still makes you want to die.


cburch
2012-03-22 15:41:50

Ladies and gentlemen,


If you puke after each session or almost after each one, if you stiff next day as a wood, I would run away from this gym. 11 years in track and field, 2-3 sessions a day up to 6 hours, personal plans adopted every week by coach and every time coach and sport doctors considered such occurrences (pukes and stiffness for more than a 2 days) as sign of early overload with necessity to adjust plans for extended recovery.


2012-03-23 10:36:51

whoa Mikhail - nobody's saying a person is going to puke after each or most crossfit sessions. I don't think you'll find anybody saying it's likely. And being super stiff is a common part of STARTING an exercise regimen, something that a seasoned athlete wouldn't be expected to experience, obviously.


I'm simply trying to counter that a single time puking at an experience is not a reason to never do it again. Puking every time would definitely be a reason to change your approach to it, at least. I think one time puking would be a reason to change your approach, which MrM has already said he plans on.


And for an athlete who spends 11 years doing 2-3 sessions for up to 6 hours a day, you should understand that what it takes to make YOU puke, and what it takes a newbie without experience to puke, are two completely different animals. An athlete who knows his body and understands his workouts' effects on his body should never EVER be puking - likely severe illness is involved rather than actual injury (athletes know better). A newbie just learning doesn't know his limits - typically blowing chunks once leaves enough impact to get the lesson across.


And blaming the gym for MrM's experience is not cool at all. It happened outside the gym and by MrM's own analysis was due to his approach to the ride, not the workout.


Likely, after the workout was over and his heart rate was down, he drank some water or sports drink to rehydrate, maybe ate something small for some energy, relaxed and chatted, then started home. He said traffic urged him to try to power up the hill, combined with the usually good idea of rehydrating/refueling, it produced the perfect gut storm. That's easy to do and does not warrant ceasing all activity, visits to doctors, or disparaging unmet professionals.


ejwme
2012-03-23 15:12:44

My next crossfit workout is tomorrow. I don't think there will be any puking this time as I will take the trainers advice and cool down properly before heading home. I didn't mean to start a crossfit controversy and don't let my stubborn actions reflect this program. I have seen top riders puke doing the Dirty Dozen not listening to their bodies.


marvelousm3
2012-03-23 15:49:07

So for anyone who cares I ended up joining the Crossfit on the South Side called Crossfit Athletics. I like both gyms but I guess the difference between the gyms would be the one on Washington reminds me of Cobra Kai and the one on the South Side is like Mr. Miyagi. Another thing that sold me on the South Side is when I told them I ride a bike their response was so do we and if you ride a bike to your workout you "get it". They even gave me a workout specially for becoming a stronger rider.

So I guess Negley Run is not a problem for me any more. Riding the jail trail even after a workout shouldn't be a problem.


marvelousm3
2012-03-24 21:51:37

nice. I just wish the Southside were closer to me. I think the yoga aspect probably changes it completely, I've never been to one that's been anything other than a crossfit. I never felt compelled to "compete" with the other people at Wash blvd, but I'm generally immune to shenanigans like that.


Very happy you found something you like (and with such a nice commute!) :D


ejwme
2012-03-26 10:37:43

No puking for your seocond crossfit session?


mick
2012-03-26 18:27:53

I really do like both gyms, but I think I like the feel of the South Side one better. On the South Side everyone came on bus, bike or walked. Almost everyone had a Chrome Bag and had on used looking clothing. The few that had on nice T shirts they had "Average Joe's" written on it from the movie Dodge Ball. The one on Washington everyone was just as nice but they all drove BMW's and Audi's, changed out of their suits into Under Armor clothing. Nothing against BMW or Audi owners my first car was an Audi, but nothing beats a Chrome Bag and a bike.


At Mick no puking, not even close to it. I felt sore but also energized. And was able to ride my bike (slowly) home.


marvelousm3
2012-03-26 23:51:16

And on the seven month, the deceptively-titled thread rose from the dead...


Let's talk Crossfit and similar things again.


So, I need to do some cross-training. (Funny, because one of the reasons I started riding a bike was to get some lower-impact cross-training for running, but now riding a bike is all I do.) Don't get me wrong, cycling has been great for my fitness in a lot of ways, but I'm not actually sure I have any muscles left anywhere above my waist these days, and I think something along the lines of CrossFit would be good for me (and might even make me a better cyclist).


Two questions:


1) Has anyone ever been to Crossfit Shadyside? That would be by far the most convenient place for me to go, but I haven't heard much about it.


2) Is there something other than Crossfit that I should look into? (Primary goals: be stronger w/o acquiring scary bulging muscles or getting injured; be a better cyclist.) I just need something structured and systematic, because I don't have the discipline or knowledge to impose a regimen like that on myself, and I'm not aware of any similar set of classes or other system that would produce the kind of results Crossfit reportedly produces. On the other hand, I really have zero interest in acquiring any injuries or in doing a lot of puking, so some of the accounts I have heard of Crossfit make me worry. Suggestions/advice welcome.


2012-11-04 21:42:26

Pilates? Theoretically good for flexibility, core strength, and suchlike fitness, without adding a lot of bulk.


Not that I would know, as I've been working the Swivel Chair Anaerobic Program (as in, I never even get to the stage of aerobic exercise) for far too long.


reddan
2012-11-04 22:19:14

Wow - they have swivel chair bents now?


salty
2012-11-04 22:26:13

Yeah, I've done some Pilates and Pilates-like stuff in the past, and that would probably be great. Not quite as extreme as CrossFit, but maybe that's okay. There seem to be several overly fancy Pilates studios around here, and that doesn't really appeal to me, but I've considered joining a gym that offers classes including but not limited to Pilates. (Recommendations of gyms in the East End are also welcome.)


2012-11-04 22:28:48

@salty, I'm imagining a collabo between a 'bent and one of these Turtle scooters:



2012-11-04 22:30:05

You're both doing a horrible job of masking your envy with mockery.


reddan
2012-11-04 22:32:48

CrossFit has a lot of haters, for good reason, and the big reason anyone does well is because it is a predetermined program with accountability. Olympic lifts or another program would be preferred by some. Starting Strength and 5x5 are great programs to look into. Even some martial arts gyms around town might be better as they will help you gain strength without the injury risks of CrossFit. Some also work in a conditioning night. All depends on what you want to do. I shoot out a text, a friend of a friend is a well reviewed personal trainer and should be near you. They could also work within your goals.


orionz06
2012-11-04 22:40:19

I cant see how CrossFit produces results at any different rate compared to a workout routine. Its all about discipline and form. I'd imagine most injuries from CF are due to people jumping into things too quickly without learning the proper ways to do the exercise. If you join a studio I'd make sure there is an ample introduction period where they focus on showing you the proper movements before setting you up for WOD routines.


boostuv
2012-11-04 22:43:22

Good points, orionz. I think it's just the predetermined program and the accountability that appeals to me. I'll look into some of those other things.


Personal training sounds lovely too, but I don't think that's quite within my budget.


2012-11-04 22:45:29

@boostuv, yeah, it's just a workout routine that someone else puts together for you and that you pay for per session so that there's some accountability about actually completing it. Nothing magical, you're just paying for someone else to impose structure. I'm lacking the discipline as well as the knowledge necessary to design a routine and maintain proper form on my own. And you're right, part of what I'm worried about is making sure I go somewhere that does the introduction period properly.


2012-11-04 22:48:56

That being said have you thought about just joining a gym and doing your own workout routine? There are TONS of online resources that can help you build routines depending on time/target areas/experience/ect...


edit: Just saw your post before this one.


boostuv
2012-11-04 22:49:53

Yeah, I have. The problem is... I'm lazy. My track record shows that I can make myself go to classes at predetermined times every week but that I cannot be trusted to plan my own workout and go to the gym by myself and actually do all the things I was supposed to do


Edit: just saw your edit, haha


2012-11-04 22:52:58

I guess I should give an update on my Crossfit progress. It's has been several months since I joined. I missed about 3 months of crossfit because of school and it set me back a bit. I can say my fitness level is much higher. I am stronger usually using the prescribed weight of the workout or close to it. Also I am no longer the slowest rider on the Tuesday rides. Able to keep up fairly well with a single speed. I used pedal Pittsburgh 65mile route on a single speed as a measuring stick the year before I struggled with gears. I am happy with the place and the fact that I get individual attention without the high cost of a personal trainer.


marvelousm3
2012-11-05 01:40:42

While this is kinda climbing-related, I came this musing on training today. I think it applies to all sports.


My wife recently went through a year or so of doing a Cross-Fit-like training program at Chris Anthony Fitness in East Liberty. While she felt the program did her some good in her general fitness, it also focused a bit too much on strength and weight training (which, from what I've heard, Cross-Fit can do, too), which caused her to bulk up more than she would have liked for climbing. She's shifted to a HIIT program, which she likes better because it's mostly body-weight stuff.


bjanaszek
2012-11-05 15:31:38

Lately I haven't been doing "workouts" or "training" to race my bike because I've been sort of burnt out for various reasons. I still have been racing which has been great and really enjoying just going on rides with friends. I couldn't imagine always "training" and never racing or not getting better at racing. I'm sure people do though I think I know some.


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-05 16:23:21

Crossfit has greatly improved my climbing. I do admit that there are a lot of cyclist who go to my gym and the owner is some kind of competitive cyclist.


marvelousm3
2012-11-05 16:41:35

I've been doing a lot of swimming since mid-May. About 2 1/2 miles per week on average.


For a while, I really thought that the swimming was making a noticable difference in my cycling - then I realized that cycling difference might be more from climbing the hill to Pitt's Trees Hall 2 or 3 times per week (usually in a hurry), than it was to what I did up there.


A few months will make a huge difference in fitness at a superficial level. Any solid change, though, is better measured in "years at an exercise program." The 6 months I've been swimming is kinda borderline between a fad and real fitness program.


I hope I can keep this up long enough for a real change. I have a tendency to fall in and out of exercise programs.


I'm very moderate at my start ups. My non-exercise lifestyle includes biking daily and dancing a few times every week. Because of that moderation and my non-workout baseline, I might be doing more good than harm.


@tetris_draftsman I couldn't imagine always "training" and never racing or not getting better at racing.


That's the thing - keep a fitness program going as a lifestyle and you won't see much as improvement after the first year or two. If your reward is watching yourself improve, where's the ongoing motivation?


mick
2012-11-05 17:18:21

...climbing the hill to Pitt's Trees Hall 2 or 3 times per week (usually in a hurry)...


Oh, so that's why you have those granny gears.


So, yeah:

(A) Ride a bicycle for basic transportation every day of your life;

(B) Tackle serious hills on an almost daily basis;

(C) Climb those buggers fast.


That'll keep you in shape, for sure. Who needs a gym?


stuinmccandless
2012-11-05 17:31:25

Mick for me and most average people there are always people faster. Sure I've made huge jumps in fitness at times which has been sweet and really rewarding. Now I'm looking at hopefully beating 1 or 2 people so I get 4th place rather than 6th. I just like competing. Not to say I wouldn't ride a bike if I didn't race but more I wouldn't "train" if I wasn't racing. I would imagine I won't race if I don't enjoy it anymore.


tetris_draftsman
2012-11-05 17:43:59

Pearmask,


Since you're at Pitt, have you looked at any of the classes on campus? Looks like http://www.intramurals.pitt.edu/groupclasses.php has as much info as you're likely to find--there doesn't seem to be info on whether grad students or staff are eligible, so you may have to email someone.


Looks like IM also offers personal trainers at about $12/session; not sure how that compares with off-campus options...


epanastrophe
2012-11-05 22:31:53

Well, I have, but as I guess I have not finished announcing publicly, academia and I are taking a bit of a break after this semester to, uh, work on our tumultuous relationship... so as of mid-December I don't think I will have those privileges anymore (I'm just taking a leave, so I won't be 100% unaffiliated, but I'm guessing they take that stuff away while I'm "gone")


2012-11-06 01:02:44