On Sunday night I received email messages from DuBois people telling me the ghost bike was gone. To make a long story short I started doing some calling. I didn't think Penn Dot did it because it was a weekend. And I proved my thinking was right. Apparently the church felt it was time for the bike to go down. They were told it was only for a short term basis from the beginning was what the pastor stated.. I said, NO that is not the case, it is to be permanent" They do put a nativity scene at the location behind the fence and I understand their concern. However, I was told they didn't put up the wall and Penn Dot did. The pastor said the bike made it look like the motorist killed my brother. I said, " HE DID AND THE POLICE REPORT STATES THAT" What kind of perception is being given that people think the motorist didn't do anything wrong? There were no consequences and thus the public perceives no wrong was done.This is a drastic error and needs to be remedied.
To make a long story short I discussed working with the pastor on this.I also explained the purpose of the ghost bike. In addition I am in contact with Penn Dot on this whole affair to see what can be done. Does the church own this piece of property since the state did the intersection?
To tell you the truth I was aghast when I learned that the church people felt we were against the driver. Excuse me, but someone was killed here...
My fight is not finished.... we have the G. Bike safely stored at Luanne's house until this situation is rememdied. I have been asked to attend the church council meeting and I will go in force with my mother and sister-in-law....
if necessary. But know that I will not back down without a fight, but also accomodate where necessary. The family and others have found that this bike is a solace to them....( So thank- you again to all that helped that day) This happened on Luanne's birthday, which was difficult at best......
I will update this site as things go along.....
Know that your bike is a comfort to those people in DuBois that loved my brother......Your efforts were so appreciated by so many... Thank-you...
Kathi
Kathi,
I'm so sorry to hear about all this---I find it odd that the ghost bike was removed because of any sort of "blame" issue. Roadside memorials from car accidents stay up for years, so the ghost bike should too.
Keep on in your persistence.....and I hope the church will have a change of perspective in this matter.
If we need to do another ride, I'm in. And any other help you may need, just ask.
Clearly more than one person missed every single word of every single thing you and others said that day. The point was missed, time to bring it home.
I thought about this when I stood across the street from the church: That huge wall would make a great mural location. Besides being a memorial, it could be used for educating drivers and cyclists. I envision artwork incorporating how fun it is to ride your bike, that somehow also captures the "missing man" theam similar to how pilots do at flyovers. Besides whatever artwork an artist could come up with, you could list the bike/car rules - bikes have full use of lane, give three foot minimum, X-number of cyclist killed, etc. It would be best if the "real" ghost bike was back in it's place, but a bike and safety theamed mural would not be a bad compromise.
For a brief while there I was in danger of losing my cynicism.
Thanks for your responses everyone. Penn Dot is checking legal ramifications for me.... who owns the property and can they allow a bike at the site even if the church doesn't apporve. I am also checking the possibilities of using a location across the street. This pastor didn't get it and to accuse us of harboring a grudge against the driver was more than stupid thinking. If he wanted to put up a nativity and not have it blocked.... I don't see a problem. Once the nativity is down.. the bike goes up... We can work together....
Marko the mural idea is great!! Are you an artist??
I have learned some things since I spoke here last. ie. Title 75 which states once a bike hits the road it is to be considered a vehicle just like an automobile.??? Homicide by vehicle???? Are the police aware of that??? We are pushing forward with some things and will let you know once anything of significance surfaces...
Until that time.....
Maybe a bike ride on the first anniversary?? We are thinking about that or bike race or anything to raise awareness and possibly funds. Let me know when that nonprofit becomes a viable option..
Kathi
stolen from the Reactions portion of ghostbike.org :
"the Ghost Bike Project makes a difference by providing a powerful visual image of a life taken from us senselessly and also by revealing our sadness publicly; in the hope that others - cyclists, pedestrians, and most importantly, drivers, will help prevent these accidents from happening again." I dont' see the word blame, do you guys?
I hope this won't be taken the wrong way, but that one guy who killed your brother - blaming him accomplishes nothing, he's so far removed from the point it's ridiculous to bring him up. If the Ghost Bike were really about blame and that jagoff, there'd be one up outside his house, one outside where he works, one outside his favorite bar, one at his grocery store, his dentist, his doctor, his parents house, everywhere he goes. If we were really blaming him, and out to get him psychologically (which is what this pastor is insinuating), there are a lot of more effective ways to do it.
The Ghost Bike is for the people who HAVEN'T killed a cyclist. It's to keep it that way. If people are uncomfortable seeing it, they should take a deep, long, look inside themselves and in their garages. THAT's the source of discomfort. The ghost bike just makes it harder to ignore.
The ghost bike simply reminds people "pay attention, do it right. failure is fatal."
That's a shame, I'm sorry that you and your family have to go through this, especially at this time of year. Apparently this parish, in its effort to not cast blame, where it rightfully belongs, cares less about the feelings of family members who have lost. And I agree, perhaps some people were definitely not listening to the content of your beautiful presentation at the ride.
Having said that, it was nice of the church to have allowed the use of that location, and I can understand them wanting to use the location for a nativity scene, what a great spot. It would be a shame to alienate that group of people, in spite of their questionable decision, there are other options at that intersection.
Yes, Bill I agree.... there are other options and I am open to exploring any and all of them. Poor Luanne was so distraught to learn about this on her birthday. It is rough enough to go through the holidays this year, let alone how this incident was handled. It was cruel... I mentioned that to the Penn Dot local office.
What I said was ..."Let's work out something that is pleasing to all parties".
I did go toe to toe with the pastor yesterday in telling him Romans 8 v28 says to make something positive from a bad situation. It is our responsibility to promote change and the GBike is just one way. It had been proven countless times to improve awareness and driver diligence. I told him about the GBike documentary etc etc.I also said I know about forgiveness and if we weren't forgiving... we would be the ones to suffer and not the driver. For I am sure that he has no moral compass in that he hasn't ever contacted the family with an apology. My sister-in-law's brother saw Scott entering the local beer joint one day coming out with a 6 pack..... Yes his life is the same except he is minus $ 600.00 for the death. Mmm hardly a dent in his life....
I just consider this a bump in the road and I am sure it will be favorably resolved by all parties. It was just a shock to get the news and hear that the bike was gone.. Thankfully it doesn't have to be replaced and we will take one step at a time in finding it a safe and secure home.
Just wanted to update all my "biker buddies" Miss you!!!
Kathi
One thing I forgot to say.... You have all educated me so greatly in the perils and blessings of bike riding!!! If I was able to give a good speech, it was only because of this group. You taught me well..... and I received all the information that you had to give with an open mind. Without all of you, I wouldn't be able to
speak with intelligence and confidence.
Ugh.
Kathi, unfortunately, not much can be done if the church doesn't want it there. From experience, I can tell you Penn Dot really does not care.
I would try talking to the pastor of the church to see if a compromise can be reached--perhaps a small white cross at the end of their parking lot?
Keep me updated on this--you can find my phone number and email address on my Facebook page, if that is easier for you.
There are a lot of clever and creative people on this board. And there are a lot of people here who care deeply about memorializing killed cyclists. It is increasingly clear that Ghost Bikes per se are unpalatable to the point of people requesting them to be removed, or just removing them for themselves.
So, it seems appropriate to me that we devise some other type of memorial - something closer the the many "small white crosses" that are apparently acceptable to place by the roadside. Couldn't a smallish white cross with a bicycle outline over the center make the point? I'm hoping some of you who are more creative than me might be able to come up with something better.
Also, while I agree the Ghost Bike is a powerful symbol, and that part of it's power lies in making passing motorists think about cyclists, and that sometimes that makes them uncomfortable enough to request its removal, a missing Ghost Bike delivers no message.
A modified "small white cross" may still deliver the message, but in a way that does not have the locals requesting its removal.
I don't think the locals were all in agreement that the bike be removed.....just a few church people. I will sit down and hash this out... Since the symbol has been established, I personally feel that we should go with it. It ain't over until it is over....as they say. I am going in with a positive attitude that we can reach a compromise.... The ghost bike, to me , is a powerful symbol....
If someone has a problem with it, that's the point. Life isn't all puppies and rainbows, and it IS supposed to make something in you go twang, and thus cause you to change your mind on the matter of being cognizant of cyclists. If someone's not getting that message, they need to.
In short, not so much "in your face" but "in your mind".
If I get killed or seriously injured I want a ghost bike. And it damn well better be cross free.
I'm ready to tell my parents that if I ever get hit while on my bike, I want them to press some serious charges, unless I'm conscious enough to say otherwise.
I think it's important to stick with the ghost bike precisely for the reasons that Stu stated. Although a cross at the side of the road does make me stop to think, it's even more important to have a person reflect on the fact that it was a cyclist that was killed.
Well, nobody (except us on this board and his family) is driving or cycling on Harts Run thinking about Don Parker because there is no Ghost Bike there anymore.
And, I'm not necessarily suggesting a "cross", but asking for those of us more creative than me: what could we place in memory that would not reflexively be removed the way the Don Parker and Du Bois Ghost Bikes have been.
Back in the 600+ posts on the original Don Parker thread, someone suggested a bike helmet.
But I'd rather we stick to our guns and demand the bike get back in place, and if we have to single out people who need educated, well then, let's single them out and educate them. (That is not a threat.)
I'm all for sticking to the guns, etc. But how has that worked out on Harts Run, and why should it be any different in DuBois?
And how do we go about re-educating the owner of Jack's Pizza who asked to have the ghost bike removed on Hart's Run?
If the bike isn't there, then there is no message.
If you want to insist on Ghost Bike or nothing, that's fine, but we can't get all indignant and surprised when some neighbor or property owner or whomever takes it down.
Perhaps there is an alternative out there that would deliver a message, and do so in a way that would not have the locals or whomever asking for its removal.
"Perhaps there is an alternative out there that would deliver a message"
Paint! Crime scene outline of a bike on the pavement would do it.
and you put a couple >> above it, you get a sharrow. Not sure most people would understand either symbol, to be honest.
Is it clear whether or not they will replace the ghost bike after the nativity scene is put away?
Not to minimize cyclist deaths, but a symbol that could apply equally well to motorist-caused death of pedestrians or other road users might gain more community support. Focus on the problem, not the specifics of the victim...
We are in a "pay to play" society and a church is a business (not my fault just a reality I deal with). I would suggest a donation of bikes to kids in the congregation that may need them or help with some of their projects from this community. A little goes a long way with a church (especially bad publicity). But I'm sure they would deal with it if they get something out of it. If the trade involves bikes or training for kids, everyone wins.
The people who have ghost bikes removed have various rationale, but generally, they really want all bikes removed from all roads.
in situations where an entire bike may be objectionable due to sheer size, what about something like this:
I keep thinking I need to draw up a will. When that happens, I now will stipulate if I die in the saddle and not by my own hand, I want a ghost bike there!
The church didn't like the fact the bike stated " killed" I said that was what happened... my brother was killed...The police report stated that he was killed .... They said my brother wouldn't like all the good he did to be overshadowed by the bike.... I told them the bike was doing good that he couldn't do anymore...
It is a message to those alive to be careful when driving . The chruch was also about putting up a nativity scene and I have no problem with the bike being removed for that and then being put up again...
When you think about it....
this church puts up a large cross at Easter... doesn't that mean Jesus was killed ???? Doesn't that cross represent a death and the purpose from that cross is for the good that Jesus did for the people???
careful Kathi, hypocracy is a shy beast that doesn't like to be brought into the light.
keep fighting, it's a good fight. No matter the outcome - the conversations you are having are doing good. The discussions you are starting are planting seeds for good change. None of this would have been discussed if you didn't bring it up, if you didn't fight for this. Business as usual is hard to change, but it starts exactly like this. You are awesome.
When you think about it....
this church puts up a large cross at Easter... doesn't that mean Jesus was killed ???? Doesn't that cross represent a death and the purpose from that cross is for the good that Jesus did for the people???
It struck me as ironic that they were removing the memorial for your bropther, who died earlier this year, to put up a memorial for someone who died 2000 years ago.
It's good that you are keeping up the discussion.
I'm curious, has anyone thought of replacing the ghost bikes in an illicit fashion? Just putting them back up every month or two, no matter how many times someone takes them down?
Kathi - be sure to share this article with the pastor and the church: http://post-gazette.com/pg/10335/1107199-51.stm#ixzz16reQFuUp
it's up on another thread, but I thought you might find it here if not there.
Thanks, Ellie... My neighbor brought the article over, but my mom could not bring it up. I definitely will share the article... how timely!!
Kathi
