BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I think this might be the year I finally start coming on some training rides. I have no intention of actually riding the Dirty Dozen (I am so not a racer) but I really do want to at least TRY all the hills.

Fantastic! Thanks for putting this together.

I posted this on the other Canton Ave thread, but thought it would be nice to hit it again here. A pic from today of the reworked street. It looked good and is ready for action.

Thanks for posting the training schedule, Steph. And Kris thank you for posting the pic of the finished Canton Ave!

Hey guys! Question from a noob: how many times do we ride up/down the hills on each training ride? Thank you!

@Shut_Up_Legs: Once usually suffices, unless you're feeling extra-perky that morning. Generally, the protocol is to briefly discuss each hill from the bottom (where "briefly discuss" may be synonymous with "see you at the top"), then regroup at the top of each hill. This is to accommodate slower riders, discreet hyperventilation, and casting of aspersions at the skinny punks who make it look easy.

OK that was hilarious! I fall in to the "slower riders who are discreetly hyperventilating" class. At least I know there's a place for me.

Jim Logan will be leading the ride tomorrow. I have to miss this one because the Iron Cross is happening tomorrow.

I am alternately talking myself out of and into doing this. I am feeling painfully shy about it, and about my abilities. But I am also feeling like, damn girl, you just rode in the mountains. If not now, when?? Gonna make a game day decision......

emma.....i was pretty new to cycling last year at this time and gave the practice rides a go. i really enjoyed them and they gave me the confidence i needed to give the real race a go. the practices are really low key and everyone is there to support and give each other encouragement. we all ride neutral to each hill, ride the hill, regroup at the top and relax for a bit. hope this helps and to see you there tomorrow. oh yeah, the group of riders last year was 8 to 10 folks...

Man, super thanks to the folks who sent me pep talk messages. I am really glad I went out for this!

So glad you decided to come! It was a real pleasure meeting you, and so many others!

Nice to meet both of you ladies. That was much bigger group than we ever had last year. Had to be 25 or so total. Shut up Legs....check out this link. A nice clip of the rider who lived that motto. http://www.businessinsider.com/jens-voigt-retires-from-pro-cycling-2014-8

Kristopher (W) ! Great to meet you as well and thank you for that article ~ wow he is 43? That's amazing. I've got 6 years on him and haven't come anywhere close to crushing that many souls! ;) Seriously what a fun read--what an amazing cyclist, Jens Voigt. See ya'll next week! It was an honor and pleasure riding with such a great group.

Had to miss the ride on account of doing this: http://www.strava.com/activities/203260817 Nothing remotely DD steep but Ramaz especially is a climb worthy of the name. Rode with two very fit 30 year old postdocs who live in the alps. A humbling experience but they didn't want to show up the professor too badly... Does next weekend's ride include Logan (5) and Suffolk (7)? The top of Logan is still shall we say challenging. I include Tesla a couple of times a week in my normal rides because I live near there, but the top of Logan is more challenging, partly because the run up takes a little more effort than Flowers/Kilbourne. I also have an equipment question. I've got a nice light carbon road bike with "Pittsburgh gearing" (32/34 is the easiest) but 23mm tires as well (could put 25s on). I also have an older mostly aluminum cyclocross that is obviously heavier but I changed the group set to get to a 36/34 and it has 30mm tires. I'm probably going to change the wheel set quite soon because the braking surface is pretty worn. My sense is that the 12% easier gearing is well worth the extra 5% or less in weight (that's simple physics) and that the fatter tires are much better on cobbles and wet (snowy...) roads. I spun out the road bike on the top of Logan once when it was wet. Is that sensible?

Well, I'd have rather been in Switzerland myself...very nice. Jim Logan led this ride and mentioned that we'll most likely do hills 4 through 7 next week. High, Logan, Rialto and Suffolk. Anyways, I'm either missing something or not so bright, but it seems to me that the road bike with 32/34 has lower gears than the cyclo at 36/34. Yesterday we had a few folks riding with heavier mountain bikes, but with very low gears, and they were quite succesful. And you're right that with low gears and skinny 23m tires you can spin out easily on a wet surface. So, I'd say we've got lots of practice runs left, give each bike a go and see which works best for you.

I believe neilmd typed his largest cog first and small chainring second. This is opposite of convention, so I see your confusion.

Yes -- too early in the morning. They are both compact 50,34, the road bike has an 11-32 and the cyclocross has a 12-36 cassette.

One time I asked Danny if he ever did two laps of the dirty dozen and he told me that he in fact had to train for the thrift drug classic. I then told him that I was going to do 3x in a day. This is what you do to get Danny to freak out. Due to it being january or something like that, we decided that it was too dangerous with the daylight we had, so we instead rode to each hill and rode up and down each one 4x. I think in the end we had 20k feet or so. What was most impressive was that you actually get A LOT of the actual ride's elevation on the "connector hills" and not the 13 hills. When I left, Danny was just doing laps up and down flowers/tesla trying to get the most climbing/mile he had ever done. OH YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok...thanks! I was wondering how you got such interesting combinations. I've only got the one road bike with a 34/28 and 25mm tires and I do fine, but I see the folks with the slightly heavier bikes (Cyclo and Mountain) but significantly lower gears just spinning up with what appears to be great ease. Maybe just a perception of the ease part, but since only a few folks are really racing and the majority are just surviving, the lower geared bike is a good option.

If I were Sir Bradley Wiggo and could put out 480 W for a sustained hour then I would be like Steevo. With the 34/36 I can more or less spin up Tesla sitting, though it does require actual effort -- something like 325W at 60 rpm (not exactly "spinning") for a bit more than a minute. I made a "Tesla only" segment on Strava though that segment goes all the way from the base to the water tank. For me at least things get fairly dramatically more difficult when they get a bit steeper -- there is a pretty astonishing difference between 25% or so, which is about as steep as Tesla gets, and grades that work toward 30%.

Steevo you could do this if you are bored of winning the DD: http://www.strava.com/activities/197409492

I can do 480w for about 2 mins I think. Haha. I saw that strava. totally awesome if real.

I love the Danny stories. I saw him eat 5 packages of pop tarts in April. They were left over from the DD from the November before that. He didn't eat or drink anything for the first 100 miles until he had those pop tarts. Anyway, I am bringing the fat bike to the next ride. Sorry. It sounds like such a good idea but it is a terrible idea.

What the hell do they put in those pop tarts anyways. And have you ever pooped a pop tart? Or popped a poop tart. Sorry. Now just getting silly. Must. Sleep.

I gotta see that fat bike going up those hills. What kind of gears does it have?

Is the training ride still on for this Sunday? Just asking since it coincides with the 321 ride...

AFAIK the training ride this SUN is still on. chrishent are you doing the 321 ride? Looks like a ride for a great cause. All the best to you if you are riding in it!

I won't be doing the 321 ride, but I'll definitely try to be there for the DD training ride

The fat bike was phat!

Thanks for all of the fun today! Never dropped so many F-bombs in my life.

That's a great pic! I'm sorry now that I cut out after the first 4 hills. And thanks to Steph for leading and showing us how it's done on the Fat Bike. Very impressive!

Sycamore and Welsh Way were the encore! I would like to see some trials riding on the phat bike... (as long as Steph doesn't wind up like Martyn Ashton). I was extremely glad I brought the 34:36 gearing...

Guys I'm having a few lower gears added to my bike. Husband is at bike shop right now (hey, he's retired--he has the time) getting it switched out. I took heed to the DD's motto, "YOU'RE GONNA NEED A LOWER GEAR" and I'm getting 'em! Canton, you're on my sh*t list--I'm comin' to get you, babeeeee! Grrrrrrrrr!!!! (as long as Neil coaches me up the hill, Christen inspires me by killin' it, and Russell give me his poetic descriptions of what to expect and how to manage each hill). You guys (*ALL* of you--Russell, Christen, Neil, Wil, Jim, Steph, Dan, Chris, MIKE (aka John lol), Aitore (sp?) Emma, and anyone else I met that I didn't get your name yet!) have been so awesome to ride with. It's been a real pleasure. Wish we could do training together year 'round! See ya next week! BOO YAH!

If by "coaching" you mean saying "This hill totally sucks" at the base of Logan and then "that was the easy part" 2/3 of the way up, I'm on it... Had a lot of fun, though!

Yes Neil that counts as coaching! I think I confused myself when I said I was adding gears to my bike--in my excitement. I actually went from 26 teeth to 28 teeth on biggest rear cog. It may not be much, but if it helps me even the slightest bit, I'm a happy camper. I don't know nearly enough about bikes as most of you guys do, but I'm trying to learn! :)

wait, are y'all the crew I passed at the bottom of Welsh/Brosville Sunday morning? I was wondering who that was...

Coming down we passed two going up and said HI, yes that was us.

"I actually went from 26 teeth to 28 teeth on biggest rear cog. It may not be much, but if it helps me even the slightest bit, I’m a happy camper. I don’t know nearly enough about bikes as most of you guys do, but I’m trying to learn! :) " Hey, Lori ... it's Russ! It's been great riding with you also and I'm really looking forward to seeing you on Canton this Sunday! ;) You'll be just fine! The difference between 26 and 28 in the rear should be pretty noticeable to you. It will allow you to sit a little bit longer and conserve some energy you will certainly need later on. I will use the 28 (my lowest) on the few parts where you can sit (Center, bottom of Logan, Sycamore, Flowers, etc.) but then I'll usually shift up to my 25 or even 22 when climbing out of the saddle on the really steep bits. It's all personal preference, of course, but I find the return on my effort is highest when used in this manner.

On the fat bike I have 36/22 in the front and 11-32 in the back. Such a low gear haha. Too low almost. Thanks for coming out, everyone. Sorry I had to leave after the first 4 hills. I had a cross race to watch. Hope to see you all this Sunday.

Steph, I wish I would have taken a bit of video of you riding up Logan on the Fat Bike. That was Dirty Dozen history in the making.

Russell! Hey buddy! Thank you for the encouragement, advice and support. You are totally awesome! When you say you shift to 25 or 22 when climbing out of the saddle, do you find that difficult to do (the shifting of gears) on such a steep grade? I'm always a little hesistant to do that b/c I feel like I might drop my chain. I imagine it takes skilled and practice (like anything else) and you have mastered a fine finesse with your shifting while I'm still trying to work out the kinks on my technique? BTW, you see, this is why I love this group. Everyone is so giving with their advice/recommendations, encouragement. Seriously. Really awesome group.

Really wish I could be out there with you guys. On a single speed for now, which wouldn't work for me for those sorts of hills. Time to do some dead-lifts maybe. But this discussion reminds me of my old bike, which was a CL beater hybrid that had an 18/28. The issue was that it was unusable (the only exception I found was Boustead) except seated but at the grades where it was a more sane gearing I REALLY had to fight the tendency to wheelie. Was fun being able to do 120rpm+ up Negley though!

With modern shifters upshifting from a larger rear cog to the next smaller rear cog is pretty straightforward because you just click and the rear derailleur relaxes to the new gear. It is always good to ease off pedaling for just an instant while the shifting happens, but with a rear upshift that is really fast, so it is really just a 10th of a sec or so while you are preparing to stand anyway. I don't believe that dropping the chain is a problem if you are upshifting from your larger rear cogs. A buddy of mine did once catch his pulley guard in his spokes when he stood up in his lowest gear on Tesla because he torqued the cage enough (and the stop wasn't set quite right), but it had nothing to do with shifting. That was pretty entertaining -- I was very, very impressed that he managed to unclip and put his foot down. I would have been in a heap. Personally, I would never touch the front derailleur under any kind of load related to a steep climb. That's where chains drop, catch, etc. I am well and truly in the small ring before any of this conversation even begins. On shorter hills with a run-up (say Tesla because of the flat bit before it gets suddenly very steep) I get quite used to building up some speed and working my way from say 34:22 (4th) on the run up progressively to 25 and 28 and maybe 32 (or even 36 on the cyclocross bike I was riding Sunday) while staying seated during the first half of the steep part. Downshifting requires more thought because it is much more work to move the chain up to a larger rear cog and that can cause a lot of trouble if there is too much load on the chain (like the chain or cog breaking), so the general idea is to upshift while your cadence is still high enough that you can back off (even accelerate a touch, ease, shift, continue). I am afraid to downshift while standing because a lot can go wrong. Actual trained cyclists may have useful hints about that (like, is it always a bad idea or are there good ways to do it if necessary?). Consequently, I pretty much commit to a given rear cog when I stand on a steep hill. If I know the hill well, like Tesla, I'll decide as I am going up the first half (which I do sitting) what I feel like and then use the "false flat" just beyond Prescott St to the left (it dips to 15% of so for a few meters) to accelerate and then upshift to my 25 or 21 to stand just before it gets really steep again so I can kick up my speed for that last really steep section. However, caveat. I am old, not that experienced, and not very strong. If I don't know a hill, or if I am in DD mode and just trying to survive, all I do is get in my easiest gear, stay seated as long as possible with my heart rate out of the red and stand when needed, still in the easiest gear because I don't have the confidence to get back into it under duress if the hill seems to be winning. The downside of that is you can almost completely lose momentum in too easy a gear while standing (Steph was doing a track stand every half revolution, but she knows what she is doing and I get the impression she could have done that up a 10km hill at 20%). I also suck at unclipping in those situations, so for me the steep climbs are pretty much a fight to the death. I also hate falling because somehow the ground seems to get harder every decade. Compacting with time I suppose.

I don't seem to have any issues shifting, either up or down, on steep hills. If you are able to maintain a steady cadence (or even back off the throttle a bit) and make clean shifts one gear at a time...you will be fine! You will run into trouble if you're pedaling all helter-skelter-like and try to shift too many gears all at once (see Berryhill). So, keep calm and shift as needed...no worries!!

Thanks for this great discussion! Neil, you said, "If I don’t know a hill, or if I am in DD mode and just trying to survive, all I do is get in my easiest gear, stay seated as long as possible with my heart rate out of the red and stand when needed, still in the easiest gear because I don’t have the confidence to get back into it under duress if the hill seems to be winning." For me, this is BULLSEYE. Exactly what I've been doing. Too scared to experiment with my lack of experience on these hills. This being my first (but not my last!) DD, I'm gonna play it safe and hope to hell that I can just finish the damn thing. Manisker (have we met yet? Not sure!) you said, "You will run into trouble if you’re pedaling all helter-skelter-like and try to shift too many gears all at once (see Berryhill). So, keep calm and shift as needed…no worries!!" ----> tru dat, bro. Yoga has helped me learn how to breathe through the stressful times my brain goes in to overdrive (which is pretty much constantly) and like Neil said, I try to keep my HR "out of the red" and focus on a consistent & steady cadence. I am going to make this my mantra while I climb, thanks to your advice here: Just. Stay. Calm. Brilliant advice and thanks bro! :)

Pics from today's ride!

Here's a first! Stefb riding up Canton on her Fat Bike. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nyFCWh4WkNw&feature=youtu.be

Thanks for the pics, Will. There was a lot of HTFU on display today! Nice work, everybody! Here's a couple more from this morning that I took:

Thanks for posting this stuff Will and Manisker!! RULE #5!!!!

Russell, your pics really capture the steepness better. Nice! We've done all the hills now, so I suppose it's repeat and more repeat till the big day.

Yeah, it's amazing how tame some of these hills appear in photos. Perhaps a lack of scale is to blame? Or maybe we just need to find steeper hills...haha!

Shut up legs you rock. That was determination.

Neil thank you so much! The determination was urination.

whatever it takes!

I look so comfy on those cobbles...

Thanks guys. That bike is geared so low. I was in slow motion. I am graceful, too, I know. Lori, hope you and your helmet are ok.

A couple videos from Sunday, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSVkODvC5GU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qEP71FK_5E For my part, I'm now 1 for 1 on Canton and found it underwhelming (though not so much that I let's say needed to ride it up 3 more times just 'cause ) Boustead on the other hand impressed me. I haven't been on the message board in a long while. I'm thinking about inviting you all out on tour of junior hills, maybe this Saturday, out-my-back-door tour of Braddock Hills, South Face approaches. I'll post something. Not quite DD-caliber, but, you know not too shabby.

Nice videos! I hadn't noticed that anyone had a helmet cam going. Love the bouncy clip as you're going up Canton. I do agree that Canton, although challenging because of the severe grade, is so short that it doesn't take the life out of you like Boustead and a few others like Logan, Suffolk and Barry-Holt-Eleanor.

It is so interesting how different things seem. Canton (obviously) is still an issue for me. I was intimidated by Boustead but it wasn't that awful -- it certainly hurt, but the top of Logan feels steeper to me. Barry-Holt-Eleanor did not get me out of the saddle (that 34:36 again) and only the very end of Hazleton on Suffolk-Hazelton-Burgess took a quick kick standing. I stood almost all the way up Boustead but felt quite in control of my effort. I think for me it is still about top-end W/kg.

My vote for the toughest hill is Logan!

I'm still in the Barry-Holt-Eleanor camp for toughest (although adding any motor traffic to the mix might tip the balance towards Logan). I say B-H-E because I've failed on that hill more times than any other (excluding Canton, as, for me, that's a bike geometry problem rather than a hill toughness one.)

Gotta say I'm with Neil on this one. Canton blew me away due to the steepness. I had absolutely zero experience in *that* severity of a hill and even though I walked it this past winter to introduce myself to it (hoping it would like me and shake my hand), I still had a terrible time getting the hang of how to tackle it. Thanks to you guys who gave me so many awesome tips, I shook hands with Canton and then flipped it off. ;)

P.S. Nate, Thanks for the vids! I'm gonna study the Canton one over and over again.

Just an observation from a ride marshall/observer of the DD for several years: Getting to and up Canton EARLY is helpful. After 30 riders or so, a soft areas emerges right in the sweet line, halfway up the hill. Rear tires spin, but momentum stops. I've seen this happen to dozens of riders on each of the past three or four DD rides. Riding in dry, almost pristine conditions is one thing. Riding through a 6 ft by 6 ft patch of mud halfway up is another. Factor it into the training, folks!

Swalfoort....fyi, the nasty part halfway up has been recobbled. See pic in first page of this thread. Thank goodnees, as that had made a difficult hill even more trying.

stand alone i think suffolk or berry holt are the hardest. They are the longest. Suffolk has the least recovery and is pretty brutal. BHE has a bit of recovery where you can loligag if you want. Even the front end is coasting this section in the race.

steevo......interesting to know what goes on up front and nice to hear that there's some "coasting" before the attacks. i'm so far back i've got no idea except for rialto where we can view the action as we're waiting at the top till it's our turn to ride down. would you place logan 3rd toughest or further down on the list?

I had trouble with Logan the first time I tried it. I still don't like it. I may bring the road bike out to the next dirty dozen scouting ride.

I rode the North hills yesterday in one continuous run except I did not bother to go up and down Rialto because it is sort of dumb without a bunch of people ( sort of dumb with a bunch too, but you gotta do what you gotta do ). For my old legs hill grades break down into 5% ranges. 10-15% is steep but I can go all day at some pace - the only question is how tired I want to be at the top and how far away that is. Kilborne in FKT is like that, about 14%. 15-20% is very steep. Pacing is definitely required. All of High, Sycamore, Center, Ravine, fall in this category. The lower 2/3 of Logan too. Most of Suffolk is under 20 but right around 20. These guys are where my beloved 36:34 lets me more or less chill, whereas the 32:34 on my road bike requires a bit more focus. 20-25% is extremely steep. Tesla, Rialto, Welsh, Berry Hill, maybe Elanor are mostly in that range. There is a limit to how far I can go at that grade so I really like to know the hill. 25-30% is stupid steep and for me the issue is NOT to think it is all out. If I can relax and put out just enough to keep going, then things work out. The top of Logan, a short bit of Tesla, and basically all of Boustead are there. Boustead is right nasty. Once I realized I could make it up Boustead my psychology took a dramatic turn... I think the top of Logan gets really close to 30% especially if you go left. Right is a bit more gentle but still way over 25. For me the key on Logan is to totally zen out for the first 2/3 or 3/4 and then the top is hard work but there is plenty in the tank so it is fine. 30% + is WTF steep. I'm still working on that... I need to go to Dornbush and try it a few times for Canton practice... It is crazy how much psychology plays a role here - 2 years ago I thought Tesla was impossible, now I plan gear shifts by cracks in the road ( no joke, if they repave I'm screwed ) and regard it as wimping out to do anything other than to stay straight right. I was like that with Logan two weeks ago... now it is sort of my friend. At this point Boustead is the toughest for me other than Canton, and I haven't needed to pee enough to get up Canton... Enough ramblings of an old Irishman whose great grandmother was named Llewllyn. Do not go gentle into that good night. It is the centenary of Dylan Thomas' birth. My mother gave that poem to the pastor to read at my grandfather's funeral. Afterwards he told her "you write VERY well...". I digress...

Neil....excellent break out of all the hills. For every hill except for Canton, I'm either sitting and grinding it out or like the top of Logan, standing and grinding it out. Canton though is a different animal. Last year I struggled with making it up Canton and my success rate was about 25%. Even then I didn't consider it the hardest. When I didn't make it, I wasn't tired, just disappointed. One day I happened by pure chance to be there at the same time as Danny Chew and he said to attack it like an all out sprint. I thought he was crazy and I was concerned I'd crap out. But I've learned that since it's so short, if you can go all guns and get enough momentum to get past the halfway mark, you're going to make it. It's the only hill I attack and it seems to work.

yea -- my buddy Jason McCullough says "do it mad".

Very interesting and entertaining back and forth here gentlemen. Missed you both last Sunday! Steph was gracious enough to lead the ride despite not feeling 100%. There were only a few of us (Tom, Mark, Rich, Daniel, another fellow whose name I do not know, Steph and me). Small group but still just as much fun. I'm gonna miss this Sunday's ride (dammit!) but will see you on for the rest of the training rides and then on the big DD day! Neil, I think we should add to your buddy Jason's advice and edit it to say, "Do it mad and with a full blad." That's epic.

you got that right lori! there aren't many pit stops on the route, so full blads are the norm. ha ha. i had a family gathering last weekend so missed out on the fun on sunday. knowing i would miss i went out and rode to connellsville and back on sat. 133 miles for me. building my base for crush the commonwealth. i'll be there this sunday. hope we get a nice big group.

wut. 133 miles. beast! go Will!

we meeting at triangle rental? long slog to Aspinwall. I think my students ( colleagues, they have both defended ) are bringing their tandem.

Steevo I see you are listing a cool green home in Garfield for your day job. Andy Grieshop is starting to think of selling as well. That's all pretty random...

FOLKS. Please note that daylight savings ends tonight, so 8:00 am tomorrow will be bright and seem like 9

to all.....just a heads head up that next sunday is also the EQT 10 miler and as fate would have it, the run starts at 0800 also. i've attached a link to the course map and it doesn't appear that it will interfere with the scheduled ride (the last 6 hills), but there will be road closures and that might affect folks driving in. expect that all the roads will be closed by 0700. http://www.pittsburgh10miler.org/Files/Admin/10-MILER-COURSE-FINAL.pdf

I like to publicly announce what a total freakin' moron I am in not realizing that Russel is "manisker." That is all. :( See you all on Sunday! Booosh!

Next week we do as many hills as you want. I will do all of them unless I have some sort of issue. Jim will be attending the memorial ride, so i need someone who is familiar with the route to help me sweep. Or lead. Or whatever. I just need help making sure no one gets dropped.

Wish I could I'll be in Finland...

Hey Stef ... I'll be there next week and would be glad to help any way I can. Just let me know. - Russ

neil.........have some reindeer sausage for me. any cycling adventures while you're there?

Hey Will! You were missed yesterday--hope your wife did well on the 10-miler and that you successfully fulfilled your domestique duties. ;) If Neil is going to have reindeer sausage in Finland, I say he brings some back for all of us. We need PROTEIN! :) PS Neil, safe travels to you and yours. Since we won't see you at next week's practice ride, all the best to you on the day of the DD!!

hey lori......i'm sorry that i missed all the action too! i was a darn good domestique though and the ladies appreciated it. i'm anxious for next weeks big adventure. see you then.

Trying to bring that back usually involves a nice doggie showing up at the airport and sitting down next to me. Not good. I'll try to stay in shape this week!

Tips for canton: ride up as far right as you can go. If you go left and start to weave you will fall down hard. Also during the real DD if you do fall... GET UP fast and move to the left side, do not just lay there like you broke your leg or arm. If you also have no idea how to climb, please do not ride in the front and ruin it for those going for points... That just makes it a cluster and dangerous for EVERYONE.

hey hikeabike......some good tips, but if you haven't visited Canton in a while you may not be aware that the road has been repaired and there is no need to track on the that narrow strip on the right hand side anymore. they did a nice job getting the cobbles all sorted out and it's a much improved surface now.

Hey, Kris. I know but still the right hand side is the trusted path to making it, those cobbles have been blessed for years there. :D

there you go....and besides being the sacred way, if you do start to fall there's more chance of getting an outstreched hand from a fan to keep you from a big tumble.

This Sunday is slated to be the last practice ride. Is there any interest in having an additional practice ride the following weekend on the 22nd or 23rd? Just curious as to why the last one is two weeks out from the race. Is that customary?

Just a guess, but I imagine the schedule was setup this way to allow folks some extra flexibility heading into the holiday week. I'm not opposed to doing some sort of ride that weekend ... pretty sure there would also be some interest amongst the group to put a ride together. Either day would be fine with me ... any thoughts?

How long of a ride are you guys thinking?

I am certainly interested in riding next weekend -- Helsinki is pretty flat, and I don't have a bike here anyway. Given my lack of exercise this week, I will be keen to put in a lot of climbing next weekend. Either the whole route or all but Canton and Boustead, as getting down there without a lot of people is just not very pleasant riding. Good luck tomorrow!

count me in.

I like the idea of all the hills except Canton & Boustead. Weather is questionable for next weekend, so maybe wait a bit before deciding on which day to ride? My preference would be Saturday, since 6 days of recovery is better than 5, but again, see what the weather looks like first.

"I like the idea of all the hills except Canton & Boustead." That could also be some sort of existential statement. Let's wait on the weather; I am officially a meteorologist, so I'll try to keep tabs of the forecast. The other thing we could do if it is an unofficial official scouting ride is meet in Aspinwall so we could forgo the miserable ride up from the Point...

Neil Denardo.

How was the ride??

hey neil.....boy it must be pretty late over there. how many hours of daylight where you are...what's your latitude? anyways, about 20 folks with a couple newbies. everything went well and there was much success all around at Canton. i cut out after hill 10 as i had some things to do at home, but quite a few went on to do all 13. twas a cold one too. it was cloudy and it just never warmed up.

I was and am back in Pittsburgh. As a PhD meteorologist I predict rain possibly mixed with snow for at least the next few hours... (rule #1 of broadcast meteorology -- LOOK OUT THE WINDOW! Or, in my case this morning, listen to the roof and notice that the cats don't want to go out) ps -- Helsinki is 60N, so it is pretty dark this time of year, but the weather in Nov is pretty familiar to a Pittsburgher. We went up to Pallas last year. That's 67.5N, but it was in Sep. Beautiful Aurora Borealis though.

Hi Neil! Good to hear from you--I really missed your sense of humor yesterday (but there were plenty of laughs to be had, probably at my expense as usual lol). OK everyone, here are the two pics from yesterday! The group held up remarkably well after conquering the 13 punishing hills! The first pic is the one I took of everyone, and the second one is the one Phil (Philly!) took. Don't we look so fresh? Mike and Will would have been there too, had it not been for family obligations and a few flat tires (damn construction!). Anyhow, everyone did a fantastic job and boy, it was the support of everyone I think that was most impressive. I know I wouldn't have made it up those hills without the encouragement and cheering of you guys. I won't be able to do any more rides. So I greatly look forward to see you on the big DDAY! REST UP! And thanks again for Steph and Russell managing yesterday's ride for all of us. And of course, a HUGE thank you to Jim and Steph for donating their time to do these training rides with us!! I have to admit I'm really going to miss riding with you all. Unil next year's training rides then! Cheers my friends!!!

Pics coming....hold the phone...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/129449241@N07/15627057247/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/129449241@N07/15810357551/

Hey there fellow DD trainees! I've just posted this years DD shirts for sale on my site. They will be available for pre-order until the day before the race and for sale the day of the DD. Check out the details at Peppernamecard.com

Your designs are always awesome.

Hey everybody ... Saturday is shaping up to be a pretty solid day weather-wise if you guys want to meet up for a ride. 45 degrees sounds pretty damn good to me right about now!! I was thinking we could do most of the DD route ... maybe cutting-out Berryhill, Canton, and Boustead?? This would dramatically shorten the overall route and we'd still get to do all the hard hills. What do you guys think?? Any suggestions are more than welcome. P.S. -- I dig the shirt, too! Might have to grab me one of those guys!!

That sounds good to me. It might still be quite cold in the morning though. Any interest in starting the ride a little later (10-11?)? Meeting in Aspinwall, as Neil suggested, would be fine with me.

gawd I hope the weather holds for the 29th...holding my breath...turning blue...

I can't start too late as I have some things to do later in the day. Some practice with thermal management might not be a bad idea as current projections have the 29th on the cold side (below freezing but just high 20s). Maybe 9am? The forecast for the 28th/29th right now looks sort of grim, but forecast skill 10 days out is not super. From the look of things the temperature projections are probably pretty sound, so it looks like cold but not bone chilling. The prospects for snow on Friday the 28th are worrisome. The snow would not be associated with a frontal passage so much as general uplift, so my sense is that both the timing and quantity (if any) are probably going to bounce around.

I would also prefer to not start too late ... I think a 9 am start is a pretty good compromise. Okay ... Let's meet at the Golden Triangle Bike Rental (as usual) and be ready to roll at 9 am this Saturday (NOT Sunday). Neil, if you'd prefer to meet us at Center Ave in Aspinwall ... that's fine we'll just see at 9:30. That work for everyone? As always, feel free to invite anyone interested, just be ready to go by 9 downtown or by 9:30 in Aspinwall.

That works fine for me. I will also meet at Aspinwall at 9:30.

Roger Dodger

I have a race on Saturday so I can't join you. Have fun! I may tell a friend, roger, about it, if that is ok. He is a tall fast skinny dude that was looking to do some hills.

Stef, of course Roger can join! Tell him to come with us ... the more the merrier!!

Would that be Rodge Dodger? (sorry)

OK so 9:30 in Aspinwall for the Aspinwall crew. Where should we meet? Just gather at the stop sign on center a couple of blocks before the underpass? Roger Doger is part of a story of my father's from WWII. He was in the signal corps. They were developing instrument landing systems, and they were doing a demo for some general. The pilot would not land. Finally the Major in change of the demonstration grabbed the microphone and shouted "This is MAJOR Jones I ORDER you to land". After a few seconds the response on the radio was "Roger dodger you old codger I'm a Major too". Discipline in his unit was a little unusual.

The stop sign at 4th street on Center sounds like a good spot. I'll try to get there a few minutes before 9:30.

Yeah, Neil ... I think that would be just fine. I will be stopping by Golden Triangle to meet up with some folks on the way and we'll try our best to be in A-wall by 9:30. Don't leave without us ... we'll be there! See you guys in the morning. It's gonna be a cold one early, so this should be a good dress rehearsal for race day.

Another version of the Roger Dodger story is here.

Good stuff! Loved reading the Rodger Dodger stuff! Hey guys GOOD LUCK today on your ride. Kick some ass on those hills! TAKE NO PRISONERS! See you all next Saturday. Anybody else have butterflies in their bellies? I do. And it's not even 'the day of' yet. Yikes. RIDE STRONG MY FRIENDS! And as always, BOOOOOOSH! :)

see people soon. weather may be a problem in a few hrs but we can play it by ear

bring raingear!

I wasn't able to make the ride today, but for all of you that did - way to go!!!!!! You honored Rule #9 in an extraordinary way. "If you are out riding in bad weather, it means you are a badass. Period." "Fair weather riding is a luxury reserved for Sunday afternoons and wide boulevards. Those who ride in foul weather - be it cold, wet, or inordinately hot - are members of a special club of riders who, on the morning of a big ride, pull back the curtains to check the weather and, upon seeing rain falling from the skies, allow a wry smile to spread across their face. This is a rider who loves the work" Kudos to all!

Rule #9 was honored to the fullest today! We made it as far as the cobbles at the top of Suffolk but it was a sheet of ice and totally impassable...you couldn't even walk it! Cars were sliding around us at this point. Then we realized we were now stuck at the top of the hill and had to walk / slow ride all the way back down to the North Side. For the last hour or two, we heard a constant whine of police and ambulance sirens all around us. We had two separate police officers stop and basically tell us to go home because it was too dangerous. So we figured that was our cue to call it a day. And it was cold as shit.

Everybody make it back OK? That was ... interesting.

That was rough. I think I've regained feeling in most of my fingers. Nice meeting everyone. See you all next week!

All good here. All the pedestrians in downtown had to walk in the bike lane because the sidewalks were sheets of ice ... I didn't hear any of them complaining about the bike lanes today! haha!

I'm just glad I had dropped back to 2nd for the turn onto Burgess! That was a really nice hot shower I just took.

wow....what a story! i can't decide if i'm glad to have missed it or sad that i can't say that i'm a badass! glad that everyone made it home safely. i finally got out about 2pm and rode up and down FedEx hill 12 times. it's not DD worthy but still a good hill and i got a decent workout in.

Geez you guys are making me look bad. I only did 23 miles on Corrigan Drive in South Park. All flat. Cripes. I suck! :) Glad everyone is OK and didn't have any accidents! YOU GUYS ROCK!!! ALL OF YA!

HTFU, Lori.

lol Russell that's why you rock.

Got so pissed off at the beautiful weather that I did F/K/Tesla repeats... First time up I smashed my PR, only 45s to go to catch up to Stumpf; according to Strava he finishes about the time I turn onto Tesla. The next two repeats were ... slower. The strangest thing of all yesterday was when we were headed toward the jail trail and a bit more icy adventure downtown on Smithfield street, in the bus lane. Chris saw a motorcycle cop up ahead and muttered "I wonder if he is going to give us crap for being in the bus lane..." Sure enough he lights up and pulls up to us, saying "Guys, I've just got one question..." My mind filled in "where did you get the idea it was OK to ride in a bus lane?" but he parried with "Which kind of light do you recommend, batteries or plugin rechargeable? I've got a Madone I've only ridden about 45 miles in the past 4 years..." During all of this there is sleet basically bouncing off of my glasses. It was totally surreal. The second strangest thing happened when we were inching along the totally ice covered bridge over Bates on the jail trail. I was clinging to the railing with my left hand, my bike with my right hand, and shuffle skating along with my feet -- shuffle, shuffle, grab ahead on the railing, repeat. This guy in the passenger seat of a car passing below leans out and hollers up to me "be careful up there, it is icy!" Um, yea, I can sort of tell...

Right now the Sat forecast is looking OK -- chilly but dry, near freezing. I'm still a little worried that it might change, but so far so good.

Hey Neil great job! And thanks for the crazy stories about yesterday. Cripes what a day you guys had. I rode today and let my ego get the best of me. Was a chick riding same route as me, and she (dare) passed me. So I proceeded to go all out to pass her and stay ahead of her as long as I could. I just about puked. But damn if I didn't cook her goose. Thank god I don't have to ride tomorrow cuz I blew all my reserves so my ego would shut up. I'm such an asshole.

Yes, one tip gathered during the ride yesterday -- beware of that. I am quite prepared to have a lot of people pass me; I just want to be far enough toward the front to avoid people weaving (my plan is to go straight on Canton come hell or high-water). I figure I am going straight so people should be able to pass me if needed.

way to go lori. you run a chance when you pass someone that they'll just sit on your tail and let you do all the work, but it sounds like you dropped her good. neil don't worry about Canton....except for the leaders going up all together, the bulk of the rest of crowd go up one at a time. last year there was a dude that positioned himself at the bottom and did a traffic cop thing making sure only one or two riders at a time.

Yea I saw that video watching my students roll it -- they are doing a tandem this year. Yes great job Lori!

Wow. Glad everyone was ok. At the cross race, the rain came down right before my race and froze immediately on the pavement. There usually isn't a lot of pavement in cross races, but this happened to have the most in the series. I went down at 2 miles an hour and slammed my knee into the pavement. I was worried that it would be too injured for the race next week, but it seems to be ok after riding today. Excited to see you guys there. I will be on the fat bike either marshaling or riding it.

Ha-ha, Lori did 253 miles at Corrigan in South Park. Stef raced just 0.3 mile of Corrigan in South Park (around wave pool). Lori, you should have ride up McConkey and take left at Pinto Court. It was a lot of fun from 9 to 4 pm.

Yipes Stef -- I hope your knee is OK. Both the temperature and the chance of precip are edging up for Sat. Something of a warm front coming through. Decent change of rain and T around 40. After Sat, cold rain seems like a luxury, as long as it doesn't freeze!

Mikhail! I know! I actually could hear the announcers up there from where I was riding on Corrigan. I had a feeling Steph might be up there and the thought crossed my mind to go and see if I could find her! So close! Steph I hope your knee feels better. I know you'll be good to go in time for Sat! Neil thanks for the updated forcast! Sounds like it's gonna be a great day to ride!

Is anyone aware of a way that spectators can follow our progress / location online so they know when to head out to certain hills? I'm aware of the Cycling Fusion's live stream, but I was looking for something a bit simpler and more data plan friendly that won't require folks to stream video on their phones all day. If I recall correctly, last year someone shared a link to their Garmin page that displayed the location of their GPS device ... anyone have a fancy Garmin capable of broadcasting their location and is willing to share the URL with your old pal, Russ? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!!

I do have a Garmin that has the live update functionality but I haven't set it up. However, I have bluetooth synched with my smartphone and I'm pretty sure the next step is quite straightforward. I'll tinker tomorrow. The only problem is that I'll be about a mile behind you most of the afternoon...

Haha ... thanks, Neil!! I'll just tell my friends that there may be a bit of a lag due to 'system limitations.' Let me know what you figure out.

I just need to be sure it suppresses my heart rate... by which I mean suppresses the data, not the actual organ...

PS -- Danny reports that Berryhill is still a go unless they weight the barriers before Sat.

uh oh -- looks like my Garmin feed may be an "official" route tracker. Now the pressure is really on me not to have 6 repeats at Canton... As long as I can build up enough pee I'll be fine.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2014/DirtyDozen/prweb12351983.htm The Pittsburgh Dirty Dozen Bike Race To Be Broadcasted Live http://www.wbay.com/story/27474921/the-pittsburgh-dirty-dozen-bike-race-to-be-broadcasted-live

Yes -- the video feed definitely will be up. With any luck we will also have a somewhat simpler link to Garmins that are posting location in real time. With a little more than any luck we will have several of these so it isn't all on me...

http://ridewithgps.com/help/live-logging -- basic account is free.

Cool -- I do have a ridewithgps premium account too, but for whatever reason the gps activity on an iPhone totally sucks battery. The hope is that when the phone does not have to do gps functionality but is only reporting data from the Garmin unit it won't turn off at about Logan.

I looked at the Ride With GPS site and it appears you would need to have a paid subscription to use the Live Logging feature. It says the 'Starter' plan is free, but the 'Basic' plan is actually $6 / month. Neil ... looks like you can adjust the frequency at which it updates your location. Perhaps setting it for every 5 or 10 minutes, as opposed to every 1 minute, would preserve battery life. Let me know if you are able to get this working ... it would be a big help! Thanks a bunch!!

will do. I'll experiment with it tomorrow between turkey baking and exam grading... bought some studded tires today for winter commuting, and I'll give them a test ride if possible... if I can't get it to work CMU will revoke my position....

Nice! I have confidence in you. And you certainly don't want to be know on CMU's campus as "the dude who doesn't even know how to use a Garmin." Haha! Let me know how it goes. Thanks again, Neil ... enjoy your turkey! And also a Happy Thanksgiving to EVERYONE on here!! It's been a real pleasure riding with, and getting to know you guys ... I'm really looking forward to seeing everyone Saturday morning! Try not to eat too much.

OK, if anybody wants to watch me drink my coffee live, go to my Facebook page (nmd@andrew.cmu.edu) or maybe you can just go straight to https://www.facebook.com/neil.donahue.50/posts/406539156161410?pnref=story Let me know if that works. To my chagrin, this does appear to have full access to data (I put my heart monitor on so you can watch the progressive effects of the pathological amount of coffee I consume). Depending on t-day preparations and road conditions I'll probably take a spin around Hazelwood and Braddock around noon, and I'll try to broadcast that too. Privacy, what privacy?

FYI ... This is the message I received when I clicked on your link. "This content is currently unavailable The page you requested cannot be displayed right now. It may be temporarily unavailable, the link you clicked on may have expired, or you may not have permission to view this page."

I'm cracking up here. Too funny. Neil, I'm happy to share with you my frequent urination syndrome. That'll get you up Canton faster.. And yes, as Russ said, it's been a real honor and pleasure getting to know you all. Here's wishing everyone all the very best on Saturday. I hope to see you all at the finish line but you'll probably be long gone by the time I get there! Godspeed to you all! xoxo!

Russ -- try my Facebook page directly and let me know. My heart rate spiked to 84 bpm a few minutes ago, I think I panicked when I realized that I was out of coffee, but it settled way down. Also, I looked at the link and it was only sharing with my friends. I changed the permissions so that the whole world can see my coffee drinking exploits. Try again going straight to the link and see what happens.

Yay! That seems to work fine now. You're the man, Neil ... thank you!!! Lori ... I'll be waiting for you at the end. We'll definitely need to get an 'after' photo!

Good luck to all who are riding! My out-of-shape failness will be marshalling some of the key intersections...I'll see yinz out there.

"PS — Danny reports that Berryhill is still a go unless they weight the barriers before Sat." Neil, what do you mean by this? Sorry, I don't understand. Is there a problem with Berryhill?

Lori ... the township usually closes Berryhill to traffic each year at the first sign of snow or ice. If they put up the barricade prior to race day, it will be removed from the DD route.

Russ that you! And thank you for waiting for me at the end!! That will make me push harder and yes, we must all get an after photo! You all helped me soooo much during the training rides and I seriously owe much of my progress to you and your coaching and insight. Cheers, my friends!

Wow....what a busy morning on the DD link today. The excitement builds! Happy Thanksgiving to all and see you Saturday!

Doing a dry run called TG ride on my Facebook if anybody wants to take a peak in the next hour or two especially non fb friends to make sure that works

I see it as activity is finished. Activity itself looks like spaghetti code. :) PS I do not have FB account.

Neil...it looks good to me. The link on your page worked fine for me and everything seemed to be operational. And I will not judge you and your 12 mph pace...this was a practice run after all. ;). Thanks!

I am going to be a car marshal on DD. C u there!

Hey guys, I have a question. If I park my car at the start, when I finish, how do I get back to my car? Ride my bike (please say it ain't so)..

Omg I do not want to do this anymore.

Lori..... Yes you have to ride back. So do a lot of people so you won't be alone . We should finish the same time so we can ride together. It was getting pretty dark by the time we got back last year so lights if you got 'em.

Never will be there supporting the ride, but will support the riders! Good Luck Guys and Gals! Remember, when you think the hill is over, it really isn't :]

Last year last rider leaving the race was about 16:30. I know because Cliff, Marko, and I were closing Hazelwood-Calvary for riders coming out of the last hill (after everybody got they prizes). So I got to the Oval about 17:30 and it was dark at that point.

Thanks Mikhail! That helps a lot with how much time we'll all need to plan for. Looking forward to meeting you tomorrow. YIKES! It's TOMORROW that we're talking about! IT'S ALMOST HERE!!!!

OK, my last forecast. There is a decent chance of a little precipitation tonight but I don't think much will come of it. It should be in the high 30s by 10 tomorrow morning and work its way into the low 40s through the afternoon. Not much sun, not too windy. I rode with my light booties yesterday and am just now starting to feel my toes. I'm going for a lot of layers with a light shell I can pocket if it is getting warm. Still pondering glove choice. My Facebook page will have a running link to my (aka lantern rouge) progress. I really want to make Canton on the first try now, or the whole world can start mocking me.

Good luck to all who plan on riding! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ix7jqxXQ2I

Good luck to all! Let's do this!

Let's do this! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkirJ_r1nes

You guys totally rock! Congratulations all. Thanks especially to Stef (and Jim) for organizing the training. As we were saying on the way home, training was harder than the actual ride, which is how it should be. Keep in touch!

Wow! What an awesome experience!! It was really great to see everyone out there doing so well and just enjoying the heck out of it! One of the coolest (and hardest) things I've ever done! And thanks again to Jim and Stef for organizing all the rides! It was a great group of folks and just a lot of fun! Yeah...if anyone ever wants to get together for a ride, hit me up!

Really incredible experience. Definitely planning on doing again next year. Will miss riding with you guys, spring isn't that far off (wait...yes it is). In the meantime, enjoy your time off the bike and enjoy some downtime. YOU EARNED IT!

Congrats, riders! I decided it best to not clog up a hill and got some shots as you all crossed the Smithfield. A nice, picturesque background. Have fun trying to find yourself: https://www.flickr.com/photos/cspiegler/sets/72157649519473602/ Enjoy!

ditto on what you all posted! an exhausting but fantastic adventure. it was great to ride with old friends and make some new ones. let's try something a bit easier next...say, Icicle Bicycle Jan 1, 2015. it starts at REI Southside and it's only a 10-12 mile ride. then Hofbrau for lunch and beer? last year it started at 11 but i haven't seen the posting for a time yet....stay tuned!

Did Steveo make it 11 in a row? I saw a few of the hills, but then had to work. :(

no....a young guy named Ian won...17 years old.

Video from my friend Alexis via Danny's Facebook Got to hunt for us in the video: I see a shock of red hair at 0:31. Betsy Shogren single speeds by at 0:52-0:54. She doesn't look exactly comfortable but she sure looks fast. I see orange panniers at 1:21-1:25 so that has to be Jason. He almost pops a wheelie but recovers. Allen R goes by 3:26-3:32 in yellow. I appear in the background at 3:36 just after the guy in yellow with the busy beard and backpack trudges past and go by at 3:44. By far the best part comes at 3:57 when a mysterious object starts to come into view and somebody nearby says "What the hell is that thing? I've never seen one of those before..." The camera pans and follows the apparition to the top.

Lolz yeah that woman must never have seena fat bike haha I laughed so hard. I was very happy to see you guys succeed. So glad I could help with that. Phil told me at the end how much the scouting rides helped. Now does anyone have a good shot of the mini that stopped in the middle of the turn on high street? I know I saw it somewhere but can't recall where. I want to bring that to someone's attention because that was dangerous. What was even wore was that they got in the way at the base of barryhill.. A friend was going for points and almost wrecked going at a high rate of speed coming off of that downhill. The marshals made everything run smoothly though. I greatly appreciate that. Steevo said he wasn't out to win, and that he wanted to have fun. I don't blame him. 10 years at the top is legendary. He still finished in the top 5. I will say it again here: Betsy is my hero. Single speed and won it. I wish that some day I could be half as strong as her.

oh, and also on Danny's Facebook the results for the first 6 dudes and first 4 ladies. it's was great to see one of the DD training ride regulars name there. Kristen got 4th!

You go Kristen! I think Russell is riding along with Allen R in the Canton video at around 3:30.

It's an honor to lend Tommy Chew brother of Danny Chew the vintage Merlin titanium bicycle for the Dirty Dozen race that he completed. https://www.facebook.com/102283623199515/photos/a.544394575655082.1073741827.102283623199515/740134976081040/?type=1&theater

Hey Guys! I also rode the dirty dozen this year. It was my 3rd one (2007, 2011, 2014)! It's always a long exhausting day but, is also super rewarding. The crowds on canton ave were incredible!!! The ride is getting big. +320 riders. I wonder what will happen if it ever grows to 500. The roads are pretty much maxed out at the moment.

FYI. I did a spectating ride using the following the attached route. Hit 8 of 13 hills (no canton for logistical reasons). Feel free to use this to plan your own spectating ride in the future. Take a long break before welsh way, as it's going to be a while for the racers to finish canton. http://ridewithgps.com/routes/6493212

Benzo, that's awesome! Thanks for posting! And super duper mega congratulations to the riders (most especially to user Shut_Up_Legs! <3<3<3). Yinz are amazing.

BTW, for the spectating ride We hit hills #1 Center, #2 Ravine, #4 High, #5 Logan, #6 Rialto, #8 Sycamore, #11 Welsh, #13 Tesla

Benzo I totally noticed your spectating group! It was cool seeing you guys at almost every hill. I might have to do the spectating ride one year.

http://www.pavephotography.com/2014dirtydozenpittsburgh

By the way, Steevo, 10 years of winning is an awe inspiring accomplishment.

Last 10 Years of The Pittsburgh Dirty Dozen: A Data Geeks Delight http://communityvoices.post-gazette.com/arts-entertainment-living/wellness-n-at/cycling/item/38597-last-10-years-of-the-pittsburgh-dirty-dozen-a-data-geeks-delight

Holy sh*t Rialto and Berry Hill be damned! Max watts - insane!

This is why I don't race (except on the jail trail) or ride with a power meter. I can tell myself I'm fit if I'm not paying attention too closely. Average wattage on Rialto... 877. Wait, I'm sorry, what??!

Rialto felt nearly the most difficult on the fat bike. I kept telling people that I didn't understand what my problem with it was.

Ben- I am questioning that too. Sometimes when I'm really pushing my watts *might* reach 230-ish on my indoor CycleOps (and I can only hold that for a very brief period of seconds). I realize this is an indoor bike I'm using as an example so there's not a *real* outdoor hill being factored in here, but honestly, I think you'd have to be some kind of super elite athlete to reach watts that high? Anyone have more info to share on watts you've reached on some of these DD climbs? Was reading that even top climbers have a ratio of 6-7 Watts-per-kilo (so say you weigh in at 190 pounds--that's ~ 86 kilos, giving an elite climber an average of around 600 watts--I guess it would be average--I have no idea--maybe it would be max?) for a climb. Soooo the numbers produced on this chart seem scewed? I mean no disrespect, but honestly, I cannot fathom...

Mark Cavendish asserts that he can peak at about 1600W (aka 2hp) as part of a story about finishing 2nd on a flat tire in the final sprint of the Vuelta a couple of years ago. That is of course insane, and there is every possibility his performance is medically enhanced. Likewise, Sir Bradley Wiggins commented that in winning the world TT championship this year he sustained something like 470W for about 40 min. So, yes, it is totally possible for a well trained cyclist to sustain 900 W up Rialto, which is after all a very short sprint. Steveo posted a link to typical power profiles sometime long ago -- I think I can find it. You can search for powerprofiling.jpg. Here is one version . A midrange cat1 cyclist can put out about 9.5 W/kg for a minute, so at 70kg (Devereaux was "25 lb heavier than Steevo" but I can't find his actual weight) that is 665 W for a minute. That's not too far off of his typical 1-min power from the table, and this is the guy who came in 2nd that year. The listed 5s power for a midrange cat 1 is about 19.5 W/kg so that puts his hypothetical max at 1365 W. Indeed his listed max power for the whole DD (on Rialto) was 1207. The thing I don't quite believe is the max gradient listing for many of the hills. They don't quite match either my perceived max steepness or for that matter my Garmin.

Found this photo gallery for the 2014 DD. Thought you guys might appreciate it: http://www.alpsandes.com/2014-dirty-dozen

Thanks for posting that link. Love this picture with the homes in the background and how far a cyclist has to lean to show how steep that hill really is. http://static1.squarespace.com/static/534eaf94e4b0e65f5c1c76c8/54a9de2fe4b0f4be6757f698/54a9de4ee4b09c6fe40f2e5d/1420418643400/IMG_9755.jpg?format=1000w