BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

When they're breaking like that something is very wrong. Bad wheel build.

Aside from polo or other direct spoke impacts, I'll bet I've broken less than 8 spokes from normal riding and fatigue failures over some 15+ years of abusive city and mountain bike riding. You are not experiencing normal wear and tear.

alot of times the wheel is built by the manufacturer who ships them to your LBS who then sells them to you. A responsible LBS will usually tension the spokes and true the wheel before he sells it to you or mounts it on a bike for sale, and most shops will true the wheel for you again (for free or cheap) after you've ridden the wheel for a set period of time, usually a month. I would take that wheel back to where I bought it and demand (nicely) that they replace the spokes, tension and true my wheel for no charge. Otherwise I would take my buisness elsewhere.

I had a wheel a bit like that. Kept breaking spokes. The bike shop guys kept blaming me. Said I was riding more than I used to (which wasn't true). Said I was riding "stronger" (which didn't make any sense). Said that I was accusing them of selling me crap (which I suspected but never actually said). I didn't check whether it was the same spoke over and over again or different spokes but after arguing with them for too long I made them just order me a new wheel and I haven't had a single problem in the two years since.

Bad wheel. Get them to rebuild it completely or get you a new one.

@eppi, have you ever shifted the chain into the space between the largest cog and the spokes by accident? That will chew up spokes and most of the damaged ones will eventually fail. That's the only possible way I can think of that something the rider did might have caused this. Otherwise it was a very improperly tensioned wheel or something is seriously wrong with the spoke holes on the hub--which seems unlikely.

If 8 spokes are broken you can bet the other ones are stressed, so you really should get the wheel relaced with all new spokes. The good news is that if this is done by a good mechanic that wheel will be likely better than it was coming from the factory. Of course, since the bike is only 6 months old I agree they should consider a new wheel for you.

I guess a couple of other questions are in order, about the construction of the rear wheel, and your size. Also, were all the broken spokes on the same side of the wheel? Which? (Usually rear wheel spoke breakage is on the non-drive side, excepting Ohiojeff's surmise.)

(Usually rear wheel spoke breakage is on the non-drive side, excepting Ohiojeff's surmise.)

really? i've had exactly the opposite experience. the drive side experiences considerably more stress during normal use than the non-drive side, and as long as the non-drive side is properly tensioned (i.e. never loses tension during use), you should pretty much never have an issue there.

I've never had a broken spoke, so I only know about other folks' spokes.

But I'm due for one in the rear -- after some serious potholes, this wheel has developed increasing variation in spoke tension. I think the operative phrase is "as long as ... properly tensioned."

I've lost a significant amount of spokes over the years on my rear wheel (non-drive side) The spokes were originally black, but I replaced them with stainless steel ones so I could kind of keep track where they were breaking

Back then my LBS heard a bunch of black spokes were breaking (some bad manufacturer in some country)

Maybe your bike is haunted. You may have a spoke spook. The creaking may have been your spoke spook speaking squeaks.

sorry.

but I wouldn't worry because biking is such good exorcise.

sorry again.

Damn you.

Well folks thanks for all the input. Yes all spokes broke on the non drive side of the wheel. I checked the tension on the other spokes and there were some wide variations. (4x). So I am guessing that I should have tightened things up sometime in the last 6 months.. (Gee I guess I really have had the bike 9 months) ... I have been wanting to try my hand at wheel building. I think I will replace the busted spokes and then embark on a wheel building exercise

double check the spoke holes in the hub to make sure they arent damaged before you start trying to rebuild the wheel.

eppi, I don't think your lack of interim tightening had anything to do with it.

I cycled about what you did when I first got my bike and never lost eight spokes at once. It sounds pretty rare, especially considering nobody else on here has had it happen to them

and get all new spokes, as suggested. if you've got eight going at once, they've surely all been significantly fatigued.

also, i probably should've mentioned, but yeah, you got a bum wheel, unless you did some significant damage to it that caused its tension to change. a well-made wheel should last a hell of a lot longer than nine months.

So, Bum Wheel == check the hub and replace all spokes? Should that "set me on a true course"? Or should I just go buy a wheel?

I have a similar problem. It was probably in march-april that I got a new wheel, and I've broken 4 spokes since then (However, I usually only average 7-8 miles a day). I went into Kraynick's yesterday because my wheel was out of true (and I ended up making it even worse -_-). I don't know that I've ever had this much trouble with a rear wheel before. Is the decision to go with a less expensive wheel coming back to haunt me?

pretty much. wheels are one of those things that you really don't want to skimp on.

A new rear wheel is about $50 and 10 minutes at Kraynicks. He always switches the sprockets for me too.

have you ever shifted the chain into the space between the largest cog and the spokes by accident? That will chew up spokes and most of the damaged ones will eventually fail.

I saw the title of the post and thought someone was talking about me. On Sunday, I was screwing around with my rear derailleur and evidently had it tensioned too high, because as I was testing the range of gears on Forbes Avenue right by Hillman Library, the chain went into that deathtrap area, got real sticky, then froze up, and I skidded to a (panicky) stop. I'm amazed that I didn't fall over, or get run over by a passing car. That would have made that catastrophic failure even worse.

In the end, I lost seven spokes in that incident, all on the drive side, and ended up getting a new wheelset.

Well, I get paid three times in July, so I'm hoping to get a new bike. a good wheel will be a big priority for me. Wheel problems are the bane of my existence.

checked out the receipt from my wheel, and it was only $34.99. maybe aim a little higher next time?

$35? Yeah, that's pretty inexpensive. Good rims alone run that much a piece.

I love Jerry, but I think sometimes he has a tendency towards the cheapest fix rather than the best fix. Wheels are a perfect example. Someone who is rough on wheels is going to destroy a $35 wheel in no time, but will probably get years of service out of a $75 wheel.

I agree with Eric. Yup.

The cheapest possible fix doesn't work with much of anything, bikes or otherwise.

erica, for starters make sure your new wheel(s) have double walled rims. if the person helping you can't answer that question, find someone else to help you. tell the shop that you have had all kinds of issues with this wheel and ask nicely and they should be more than happy to throw it on the truing stand and make sure everything it true and properly tensioned before you leave.

well, I got it from thick when I got hit. they had all this nice gear lined up for me, but when they found out I had to pay out of pocket, they downgraded a bit to help me out. And it did help me out a lot at the time, and as frustrating as it is, it's still not that bad. At the time, a cheap wheel would get me to and from work, and that was what I needed.

When I went to kraynick's yesterday, I somehow managed to get it back into true, and they said that it was definitely usable.

As I save up for a new bike, I'll also save for a super-nice wheel for my current one as well.

yeah i'm sure chris helped get you the best you could at the time. but if you are going to make an investment in a new bike and wheel i just want to make sure you make it worth all the time and trouble of saving.

definitely get double-walled rims....any brand recs?

any brand recs?

I tend to go by what the reputable online resellers offer. I'm not sure if that is the best approach?

http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/tourtand.asp

http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/rims/622.html

I've always found the Salsa Delgados to be good, solid rims, and generally affordable.

Edited to add: The Mavic Open Sports are pretty decent, too, as are the Sun CR-18s. I've found the CR-18s to be a bit "big"--some tire brands are just a nightmare to install.

I purchased a pair of Mavic A719 36 hole rims with XT hubs and think they are bitchin. I've ridden all over the pot holed PGH streets with lots of weight on the rear rack, on and off curbs and even on some rooty single track in Frick and they haven't needed an adjustment yet. They weren't cheap but worth every penny to me.

Now I'm nervously looking at my 27 x 1 1/4 rear wheel I got from Kraynick for my backup commuter...

I think Gordon used one of those cheapo wheels on his partial cross-country trip and he's a pretty big guy. It worked, but I think he had to keep adjusting the spokes

Pierce, don't fear the spoke spooks... just never cross the streams. It could be bad.

The poor man can only afford the very best.

+1 stu

goes right along with "do it right once or do it wrong over and over again"

do it nice or do it twice?

I still can't find fault with a shop or a customer trying to meet a budget entirely dependent on the cash in a pocket that was put there by a job that needs the customer back via that bicycle before more cash can get in that pocket.

Saving takes time, emergencies don't. (not saying not to perpetually save as much as possible, just that "as much as possible" might not always allow for the best emergent repairs)

it's one of the maddening connundrums - having no money is often the most expensive way to live, even if you're a careful miser.

no one is saying buying the wheel she could when she needed it was wrong. just that if she's going to go through the hardship of saving up money for a new bike, she should make sure the bike she gets is worth the trouble. you don't have to spend a fortune to get a nice reliable bike for city riding, but you do get what you pay for.

When you mention getting a lot more use out of a $75 wheel are you pulling that number out of the air or can you really walk into a local shop without knowing someone there and get one for that price? My internet searches are not pulling the mentioned brands for less than $150 but maybe I'm not looking in the right places.

fwiw: skills can be a substitute for money, or vice versa. From my experience I would say if you're broke, you simply can't afford not to learn how to fix stuff. Freeride offers free wheelbuilding classes. Once you know what you're looking for, you can find decent wheel parts on closeout sales and the like, and build up a bombproof wheel for 50 bucks or so (edit: maybe prices are going up, quickly scanning around shows me it will be hard to find parts cheap enough to do that - but occasionally you do find rear hubs for $20ish on closeout or ebay)

FWIW by get what you pay for I meant pay in time or money.

" My internet searches are not pulling the mentioned brands for less than $150 but maybe I'm not looking in the right places."

Be sure that you aren't confusing the price of a single wheel with the price of a wheel-set. There are lots of good options out there for $75 ($150 for a set...)

For example

I'm in agreement with Lyle, (though not necessarily on the freeride suggestion, though it can't hurt?)

Being old schooled (and absent a spoke tensiometer) I check and tune my spokes by ear.

Over winter I needed to adjust my spoke tension frequently. Perhaps it was the temperature changes? Now, not so much.

Knowing stuff be good.

tips for extra durable rear wheels:

(a) Read Jobst's book

(b) Forget it, read Sheldon's site, and build a wheel

(c) Read Jobst's book again, this time maybe you can understand it.

For people looking for something far more scrutable than Jobst's book, but in more detail that Sheldon's site, I used this e-book (which I bought back when the Road Bike Rider website sold it) to build my first set of wheels. I found it really helpful.

I suggest reading everything you can about building wheels before going into it. Everyone has a different technique.

I wrote this back in March 2008, and it is enough to be dangerous for sure.

http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue6/urbanvelo6_p62-63.html