BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Nope. Sounds like you need to lead this ride for bike fest this year.

with interactive map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_neighborhoods

this would be the Most Epic Ride.

This is a perfect application of the traveling salesman problem. I'm down.

PS - It only counts if you go to Brunot Island. I think the only way to get there is by boat or the pedestrian walkway on the railroad bridge.

hmmm. it is neighborhoods. i think you need people living there to have a neighborhood

would you do it as a spiral starting from the outside in? or do it as zig zags?

do a spiral around the city, ending at the cathedral for a stair climb to the top

Ah, but can you so arrange the ride so that you visit each neighborhood once and only once?

@erok: You are running this ride, right?

@ ejwme - agreed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Pittsburgh_neighborhoods

Anyone know why there is a hole in this map? What neighborhood is that? I am terrible at knowing my own city, that's why I don't play Tag-o-Rama...

all the city neighborhoods are labeled on the map. I think the hole is the borough of Mt Oliver.

That would be Mt. Oliver Borough, not officially part of the city. However IIRC, the residents pay a 2% earned income tax to Pittsburgh Schools and 1% to the borough itself.

Yeah, the hole is the borough of Mt. Oliver. (As opposed to the adjacent neighborhood of Mt. Oliver.)

i thought it was beltzhoover, if it isn't where is beltzhoover on this map?

here's a route ending at Spak Brothers Pizza

Please do this ride

I would have thought it impossible. So simple, so beautiful.

Crush the Burghhoods.

'Rahn the Tahn (n'at)"

I was going to plan this really! for last year's bikefest but then I got lazy & didn't do anything

It would be bonus points if the route stayed carefully within the city limits everwhere -- avoiding Mt Oliver.

no sliberty love?

nate, did you plan any of it out?

Although a small alteration would fix this, it doesn't go through East Liberty.

darn lincoln place and east carnegie

haha. whoops

East Liberty isn't a REAL neighborhood... it's more of a state of mind...

Then we'll just have to end at Oh Yeah! for dessert.

what's the distance on that?

It would be awesome to take a picture with everybody "in" every neighborhood. (gotta get to 'sliberty)

Bike the Burghs.

Tangentially related, from one of my crazy co-workers: http://pac.tom7.org/

salty, your crazy coworker is awesome. I find his project intensely satisfying, and may completely copycat it in some form. Very happy you shared.

Oh Yeah! is in Shadyside. I vote Kelly's.

I wonder how many miles this would be.

Amazing that erok's map only crosses the rivers 3 (or is it 4 times?)

Because even Pittsburghers who are cyclists rarely cross rivers!

Ha, Kayla. That's funny, I hope it's not really true.

Has anyone ever done a ride where you ride on every single street in the city and carry bikes up/down streets that are stairs?

I'm going to bet somewhere between 65-75 miles.

Three rivers. Three crossings.

Sounds right to me.

But you have to bike through Slib to get to OY from Spak.

(Out of context, that doesn't make a bit of sense.)

But you have to bike through Slib to get to OY from Spak.

Sounds almost Suessical.

Ah, but can you so arrange the ride so that you visit each neighborhood once and only once?

It would be bonus points if the route stayed carefully within the city limits everwhere -- avoiding Mt Oliver.

I think it's not possible to do both of these in the same ride, due to the way Baldwin borough surrounds Hays on three sides, cutting Hays off from the parts of the city to its west.

Of course, the solution is obvious. Two rides!

i just noticed that Lincoln-Lemington-Belmar goes above the Allegheny. how is that the city, but Milvale isn't?

That bump out of Lincoln-Lemington-Belmar is just big enough to encompass the water facility across the street from The Waterworks mall in Aspinwall.

Also the Waterworks mall itself, the reservoir just north of it, and UPMC St. Margaret to its west, according to the city's map. All in the city but disconnected.

i didn't realize that waterworks mall was in the city

Oh yeah, and don't forget the airport!

Wait, really? Is the airport technically city property?

I did not realize the Waterworks Mall and St Margaret's were also in the city. Thought it was just the water treatment facility. Interesting. I wonder why?...

I don't believe PIA is owned by the city. And it's certainly not a neighborhood so I wouldn't include it on the ride.

At one time there was a very narrow contiguous path leading from Pittsburgh to the airport, or so I was told. But that was before they built the new airport, and possibly the original report was in error. I can't find any evidence of it on the Pittsburgh city maps etc.

Looked up ownership -- it's organized under Allegheny County. So the claim of ownership by Pittsburgh some time ago is starting to seem fishy to me.

I've never heard that. There might be a proposed right-of-way for a transportation corridor, but it would be neither city property nor a neighborhood. In any event, both airports are county entities of one sort or another.

Ok, so who's putting the ride together? Erok, did that route have roads associated with it or was that just Paint guestimating?

Chicago's city limits include a 200 foot wide strip of land connecting it to O'Hare, most of which is part of the city. Wikipedia: "This land was annexed into the city limits in the 1950s to assure the massive tax revenue associated with the airport being part of the city." Perhaps somebody confused that with Pittsburgh.

@brad, the reservoirs north of the mall are part of the treatment facility. the mall is actually in the middle of the city waterworks.

that was just a photoshop estimate. haven't worked out any route

If you would like help, I can come up with a route. I'm kinda not very busy these days

I vote this is called the ninety (?) boro bike tour.

good name

Scr*w NYC and their puny 5 Boro Tour. There are 130 municipalities in Allegheny County. 80 of those are Boroughs. We could have an 80 Borough Tour!

How about a sponsorship? The Heinz Catch Up Yinz'r twelve neighborhoods behind tour?

We could call it Le Tour De Pittsburgh or The Tour of Pittsburgh. Would this be a casual fun ride or an all out ride?

Le Tour de Hoods?

Hoods N' 'At.

TERRIBLE TOUR!!!!! woooooooooo!!!!!!

ooooo. that's good

I feel a tour title that incorporates some pittsburghese would be appropriate. Discuss.

The airport is located in Moon and Findlay Townships. The old terminal building and the development along Beers School Road (hotels and restaurants) that used to serve the old terminal are in Moon Township. The new terminal is in Findlay Township.

Allegheny County owns the property. The Airport Authority operates the Airport. The City has no involvement in property, ownership or operation of Pittsburgh International Airport.

I love this ride. If the earlier comment about Brunots Island not being a neighborhood is accurate, then can't the same be said for that section of the City that falls north of the Allegheny River? I don't think it includes any homes. So, not an independent neighborhood......

If you started at Bike Pittsburgh (Lower Lawrenceville), you could reroute slightly to go from Upper Lawrenceville to Bloomfield to Polish Hill, then do Friendship, Garfield, East Liberty (or Friendship, East Liberty Garfield, to end at Spak) at the end.

@dmtroyer: Terrible Tooor an'nat...

Steel City Dahntown Tour an'nat

....I had some other but they were jabs at the Pirates, I decided to keep it positive.

This is the Pittsburgh long distance tour that scores of people have been yearning for ever since the demise of the Pedal Pittsburgh long routes. Or at least a few people. Since last week.

+1 Terrible Tour. Is "Terrible" copyrighted?

I would be willing to develop out the West segment from the McKees Rocks bridge to say "Ridgemont". If a number of people took a section they are familiar with to detail out, it would be more do-able.

I picture a bunch of cyclists with terrible towels pinned to their jerseys like race numbers, toodling all over pittsburgh...

I don't see how anybody in Pittsburgh could mind if we used the word "terrible", in fact I bet we'd get cheered on. I don't see how anybody outside Pittsburgh matters.

Terrible Tour is great and I think Rahn the Tahn is hilarious. And if it matters I vote for casual fun ride vs all out.

Terrible Tour Rahn' Tahn.

now we just need a route.

We could do it in August and have each cyclist wipe off a little sweat with the towel. It would be terrible enough before the end.

If the earlier comment about Brunots Island not being a neighborhood is accurate, then can't the same be said for that section of the City that falls north of the Allegheny River?

FWIW, the city's neighborhood maps page shows both Brunot's Island and the Waterworks section as parts of other neighborhoods.

Here's a first pass, basically following Erok's line. It's in 3 parts...Google maps stops allowing you to add destinations after U.

[edit these links are too long to manage in one post]

All up, it's only 74 miles.

Sorry, I have to use short urls...the board is doing some wonky stuff if I try to post the full links (all Google Maps):

Part 1: http://g.co/maps/zvchd

Part 2: http://g.co/maps/49kz8

Part 3: http://g.co/maps/jbs4e

mattre, you are awesome. the route looks good for the parts of town I know, which, apparently, is very little. 75 miles, I'll have to train a bit to do that in a day, I'm outta shape.

So when is the ride?

We should do this as a group ride -- but with *everyone starts from + ends with their home neighborhood* Everyone gets picked up along the way, staggered start, staggered end.

We could do an endless perpetual loop, with people joining and dropping off every other cycle... biCycling throughout Pittsburgh in a perpetual motion machine...

If this doesnt come to be, I'm going to be severely disappointed.

I would ride this from beginning to end. I don't want to miss exploring any of the neighborhoods. A 75+ mile route sounds great as long as the pace isn't too fast.

Very cool ride

Such a fantastic idea. One of the reasons why I loved the 60-mile Pedal Pgh distance so much as a newcomer to the city was that I got to see so many cool neighborhoods.

When Nate and Mary set up the "tippy top" ride a couple of years ago, it was such a hot day, and there were enough medicals and mechanicals, plus people getting lost, that keeping a couple dozen people together became a logistical problem. As a result, it got split into two parts. We might need something like that for this, too. Plus hardly anyone knows the whole city. We'd need one person with GPS, maps, etc., for every I'd say 10 people.

Would there be anyway to do signage along the route? This ride is an awesome idea, and like many others here I think we definitely need to make it happen.

"We'd need one person with GPS, maps, etc., for every I'd say 10 people."

Honestly, I doubt that is necessary. I took a similar ride in Chicago recently (4star-biketour) and didn't have much of a problem between the que sheets and road markers (arrows painted on the ground, more or less). The only thing that screwed me up was an inconsistency between my que sheet and an earlier (out dated) one that some riders were using.

There are some areas like say, Fairywood, that you want to make sure you go through with at least 10 people, and stay together. Dip your wheels in Fairywood as briefly as possible. As delightful as it sounds, the fairies are mean, and they want your junk.

^ True. I was speaking to directions, not safety of numbers.

I'll smack those fairies with my terrible tour towel!

I mapped basically the same route in ridewithgps.com with a couple of changes to touch neighborhoods I missed the first time...total length now shows as 81.1 miles.

Check out the hill profile at the bottom

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/914682

Did you throw in some DD hills? I'm seeing some 15-20% grades.

Detail: At the McKees Rocks bridge get off at Helen, go Helen > Munson > River > W.Carson > Stanhope > Stafford. Better.

81 miles, perfect, that's the Pittsburgh "Century" I was asking for in a different thread (I contend that 80 mi +- around here is equivalent to a century most other places).

Miles 1-9 I know pretty well. Nice touch, turning off of Federal Street onto aptly named Mercy Street. From Jefferson to Mercy is shown as a 10% grade, but I'd guess it to be more like 13-15%.

Of some concern are downhills. You only need muscles and a properly functioning cardiopulmonary system to go up. You need good brakes to go down. Henderson St is both steep and incredibly long.

I recommend that anyone going on this ride get a good brake inspection and on-road test. You don't screw with Henderson St.

There is a munson street in Pittsburgh?! I love it.

Wow. Flock of Coronaries.

Looks like fun.

The spike from 27 to 30 is about 1/3 of my commute home. Nice to see that particular coronary represented graphically.

nitpic: you miss Carrick, Knoxville and Bon Air.

Fix: From mile 36 go down Brookline Blvd to Glenbury st., 51 for two blocks of ugh, to overbrook blvd., to Spokane, to Parkfield, to Brownsville, to Amanda, to Charles, then back on your track.

OMG, Crane eastbound off of Banksville (Mile 33). I can just imagine dozens of cyclists, one at a time, taking the whole goddamned lane because you f'n have to, all day long.

Worst part of the trip, so far. Maybe even including Marko's piece of 51.

Mile 46.5, a perfect opportunity to do a Dirty Dozen hill -- Eleanor-Holt-Barry -- downhill! It would break the boredom of going down Arlington just to turn around and come back up it.

I think this gets a better bite on those neighborhoods of South Side Slopes, Arlington Heights and Arlington: Eleanor-Holt-Barry-Josephine-Arlington-Devlin-Spring-Mountain.

Similarly, I think I'd rather make a loop through New Homestead via Mooney-Lindberg-Interboro than merely out-and-back on trafficky Mifflin Road.

EDIT: I've been using this page to get better close-ups by neighborhood.

This is looking like a great ride!

If you want a preview, like I did, I created two files that you can import into Google Earth, then do a fly through.

City of Pittsburgh Neighborhoods.kmz

Every Pittsburgh Neighborhood.kmz

BTW, from looking at the Google Earth overlays we should double-check the route for these neighborhoods:

Lincoln-Lemington

Terrace Village

Spring Hill - City View

Duquesne Heights

Couldn't tell for sure about these. Might be that the route touches briefly:

Ridgemont?

Carrick?

Am I the only one not excited if this ride includes DD hills.

Hills will need to be climbed to get to certain neighborhoods, but I could see how certain streets and dirty dozen type climbs could deter people.

I think the biggest turn off regarding DD hills is this ride is already going to be an entire days worth of riding and if it does happen will almost certainly be unsupported.

Have the main route avoid DD hills if possible. Then have alternate segments with DD hills or whatever for special "achievement unlocked" points.

It is not possible to hit all the neighborhoods without doing the climbs one way or another. But I do think this ride should avoid DD hills if possible, the goal should be complete the entire route. 80 miles will be daunting enough.

There should be one group designated as totally no-drop, non-competetive, walk hills if you have to. I would hope no-one would be totally discouraged from doing this because of the climbs. Plus there are tons of easy bailout points if someone gasses out, it's never more than a couple of miles from town.

I officially vote for the taco stand at Las Palmas Supermercado in Brookline (mile 36) as the first official food stop. Mmmm.

If the route goes past a participant's house, do you think a family member/roommate would be around to provide water and snacks?

I so want this to happen.

Another detail, around mile 57, consider instead of Hazelwood, go Flowers>Kilbourne>Tesla>Harlem>Hazelwood. Pleasanter. And neighborhoodier.

I Don't mind hills or hard climbs, just not feeling up to DD hills. Two groups sounds great, I usually ride with the faster group the first half of my rides then end up in the back of the slower group the rest of the ride.

In the event that I am able to get in shape to even attempt this, I vote for June 17 or 24, when there is 15 hours of daylight. Just, you know.

The possibility of this happening goes a long way toward me getting my ass on a bike today. Looks nice.

If I get a chance today, I might ride some of miles 1-14, particularly 7-9, the section through Fineview.

I'm less worried about DD hills and more about serious traffic issues, like Crane. We had a thread here about climbing Crane a couple years ago. I've never done it, but I've driven it. Nowhere to walk or stand, either side of the road, and heavy traffic. And a >15% grade. Might be better to go down Banksville to Goldstrom, just as steep but less traffic. (One beyond that is Coast, where Canton is.)

Found that thread.

mm, agree. Better to stay on Carnahan to Maydell>Rosanne>Younger>Chappel>Coast, then do a wiggle to get up to - what is that, Duquesne Heights? Then back on track.

Eee, except no stoplight at Chappel & Banksville. Iffy.

And we wonder why we have so few cyclists in the S Hills.

If this ride does nothing else, it will allow everyone to see just how challenging it is to get around Pittsburgh on a bicycle.

btw, I am really psyched about this ride!

I think there are buttloads of cyclists in the south hills, they just can't get into town from there.

Ok, Carnahan to the light at Banksville, tiny bit of Banksville (downhill, not bad) to Coast. That would be my call. Then the nuts have the option of doing Canton and meeting up in Beechview.

So how many hours do you estimate this ride will take? I'm guessing it would start around 6a.m.ish on a Sunday?

What's the longest ride you've ever done, Mr. Marv, and how long did it take?

Let's put it this way: the normal route for the ms150 is 70-80 miles. It is hilly and there are inexperienced riders who don't train. It starts around 7am and the corse closes at 5 or 5:30 (in the past). There are a lot of rest stops that people spend a lot of time at. I don't think many people have to be sagged to the finish line at the end. We should be fine if we start at 7 or 8am. If someone has to bail, the city is small enough that anyone can beat the nightfall home if they don't have lights

Also kind of depends how many official food stops I request to be added to the course.

Ooh, "Donuts" at mile 26, Steuben Street. Yeah.

I would love to do this ride.

Team Dropped, anyone?

@ Pseudacris you know we will represent Team Dropped.

@ edmonds59 Pedal Pittsburgh 60 miles plus ridding around town afterwards is my longest day on the bike by the end of the day I put in 100+ miles. Even with rest stops, lots of socializing, and that crazy woman who keeps crashing into me all the time I finished PP in 3 or 4 hrs. We did ride it at a very social slightly faster than Flock pace, I know I could ride way faster.

Both of those last two setences cannot be true. 3hr/20mph is a pretty ridiculous pace even with no stopping. 4hr/15mph with stops that probably means 17mph moving which I would describe as "hammering" rather than "social". Flock pace is well under 10mph and often more like 6-8.

I am not fast by any means but I average a bit under 15mph moving in the MS150 and 11-12mph overall (taking a long break for lunch brings the average down a lot). And I suspect this ride will be somewhat hillier than the ms150.

Yeah I did the 60 mile pedal pgh and it took me just under 4 hours, and i was going pretty fast (for me)

Had to look back at my GPS and I did PP in about 4hrs, the GPS automatically paused at rest stops, or any time I stopped more than a minute, including long traffic lights etc. So I guess I did 4 hrs of actual riding but I don't remember how long it took including rest stops and stop lights.

(Edit) 4hrs 33min. 28 seconds

incidentally, i'm not sure you guys really grok what 8000 vertical feet is like. it's probably more than the dirty dozen (i don't have the dd altitude change in front of me, but i think it's like 7500?). i think re-tooling the route to stay up high as much as possible, once you get up high, would be better for all involved. as much as that is possible, of course.

@mattre - i see you even threw in 1.5 mi cobblestone section (Wyoming on Mt Washington) ala Paris-Roubaix. nice touch

@edmonds59 - isn't Flowers/Tesla combo DD hill #13?

@HiddenVariable - good point...for reference here are the two rides climbing stats

I tried to check Flowers/Tesla before I made the suggestion, It sounded familiar, but dannychew dot com has been down today.

I've been up it and it has to be easier than going straight up Hazelwood.

Hazelwood is easier than Flowers/Tesla. Hazelwood is a straight steady 10% top to bottom. Flowers is 8% till the end then 25% ish.

Thought about Bigelow St? One of the best roads in the city, takes you out to the same spot, less steeps grades, just a lot more climbing.

@ Pseudacris and mr marvelous - I'm in for Team Dropped. Considering the climbs involved, I may self-drop long before the 80+ mile finish line, but I'm willing and anxious to try it.

@TDW - Dan, come on I've seen you climb some pretty steep hills. Might be that some short sections (~25 miles) of the longer Tour could be used in the coming year's Team Decaf rides? Not sure if this is possible until the final route is decided on, but this would give riders that don't want to commit to a longer ride, a chance to do the Tour over a couple of weekend rides.

^ I like this thought. Break it down into a set of 20-30 mi training/route scouting rides, then string them together on the big day.

p.s. Yay, Mr M & TDW!

Team Dropped all the way.

Heh...I was wondering how the reaction to the hills would go

The first draft was more or less a blind following of Erok's photoshop line on page one. The second one was just a re-drawing of the first with a preference for green bike routes and no attention paid to hills. Now is the time for serious tweaking

I agree with the general consensus that it's best to avoid busy roads and DD hills, and where possible/reasonable climbs should be reduced (e.g. moving the SS Flats to the final leg and going straight to Allentown from Mt. Wash: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/918102).

I'll keep playing and add in some of the suggestions and see if I can reduce the number of climbs...should have another draft in a couple of days. In the meantime, it's put out there as a public file so anyone can save a copy and edit (or export to use in another tool).

@teamDecafWeekend Considering the climbs involved, I may self-drop long before the 80+ mile finish line, but I'm willing and anxious to try it.

80+ miles with more total clamb than the dirty dozen?

Anyone else want to make this a two-day thing? Half on Saturday and half on sunday?

Maybe even a three-day Memorial weekend thing?

The neighborhoods were originally defined by topography. In Pittsburgh, Topography = hills + rivers.

That limits the options for smoothing out the ride.

I will train for this. If I ride it, I will walk any hills that look obscene. I like the epic one day thing, but I see the sanity in making it a multi-day ride. Just not sure how day 2 (or 3) will feel after day 1 (and 2).

If for some reason I can't ride it, and a date is set before I buy summer vacation plane tickets, I will be follow car with gear, rack, food (potluck?), beverages, whatever is required. Will that help make it more feasible for people? If I do ride it, the threat of the hills and exhaustion involved might induce my husband to be follow car for us anyway - schedule will be super important.

It is very important that this happens.

It is very important that this happens.

hear hear!

I got my butt out on Sunday in anticipation of this. I plan to start biting off segments of this route as soon as possible.

I think a key positive to mattre's route is that in my mind the most difficult parts are in the first half. A person could ride the first half and easily bail around mile 44. Or mile 50, or anywhere thereafter.

Also personally I could see doing this as a 45 mile ride in the morning with a 36 mile ride in the afternoon, with a 2 - 3 hour lunch in the middle. I would take 12 hours to do this thing and feel no remorse. I am becoming a committed pootler. http://ht.ly/8oDcS

wow, this really got some teeth. i like the crowd sourced routing of this off of my quick and dirty photoshop.

if this really is 80 miles, taking 10-12 hours to ride this with a group is probably a decent guestimate. Also, if the cue sheet is made, it could also be available at the start for people to ride this brevet style - basically ride at your own pace, alone if you want, with people if you want. the ending could be at a bit more of a public hang out spot like a bar/restaurant, although i like the idea of Spak being on there.

Carry on.

One routing suggestion: having several out-and-back legs (like the run up and down Mifflin Rd on the existing map) adds to the fun, because faster riders will be coming back while slower riders are still outbound...gives people a chance to say hi other than at the start and end.

so, i just spent entirely too long making this map, which i think might be of use to anyone trying to get the routing done properly. have a look, and i hope it is of use to someone.

whoa

Hey HiddenVariable, is there some way to make that neighborhood overlay permanently visible to the world? Because I can see all sorts of people finding it useful.

Also, reddan -- I was disappointed when you posted and didn't include a ride report. Taking some time off?

@jon: If you're referring to my few-and-far-between blogular endeavors, I just haven't had much to say in recent months. ("I rode next to the river today. It was windy.")

That will likely change this winter/spring.

@mattre - I really like your map. But, I can't seem to make the first 40 miles of the cue sheet appear (or print). No matter what I do with the map, the cue sheet starts with a right onto Williams at mile 41.

What am I doing wrong?

HV, your overlay skills are impressive.

I love maps.

re cue sheets... I have never been able to make them work much for me. I can't steer/stay upright and read things off paper that I have to hold in my hands. Is this a skill that everyone else has? Or do other people have more useful dashboard accessories than I have?

http://urbanvelo.org/bargain-navigation-system/

Brad, you are awesome. this is going on my bike tonight. Now I just need to bike somewhere I've never been to try it out

@swalfoot: I'm getting the same thing with that version. The only way I could figure out how to edit properly was to export into .gpx and then re-upload, but doing so wiped out the control points on the map...I think it's making the cue sheet only from the ones I added back in.

For now, use the original version: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/914682. *Drawing* using ridewithgps is as easy as it gets, but I'm finding it to be a bear to edit with. Does anyone have any suggestions of other programs/websites to try?

@HiddenVariable: That is brilliant! It will make verifying neighborhoods so much easier!

@mattre, have you tried bikely.com?

This makes me think of the Allegheny County Quest. These guys drove around Allegheny County trying to document each and every one of the 130 municipalities here. They list that their next project is a similar quest to visit every Pittsburgh neighborhood but it looks like they've stalled out.

http://alleghenycounty.wikidot.com/

@swalfoort, not yet, but I'll give it a look tonight.

I had another go at it, using HiddenVariable's overlay map and Erok's suggestion from page one that a border street counts as two neighborhoods. I managed to trim seven miles off the distance and eliminated some of the hills while picking up a couple of neighborhoods I missed. I *think* they're all at least touched now.

Thoughts? It still needs work, but this one is a little better.

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/920535

edit: Looking at the metrics, I see that the max grade has gone up to 32% from 24%. Can anyone see where that happened? I'm guessing it's somewhere in the South Hills...

Coming out of Frick Park is 28.8%.

I believe I've gone down that road and I dont'; recall it being THAT steep.

There is a function on the graph where you can change it from "Elevation" to "grade" and look at where the grapjh is the highest. I think it's the Frick exit.

For the section from Browns Hill Road over to the bottom of Frick, why not just cut over and use the Nine Mile trail below Summerset to get to Frick instead of climbing all over Beechwood and down Commercial? Unless you want this to be mostly on road. Just wondering.

as a single person riding a bike, I'd normally vote for trails over Commercial, hands down.

in a group, I think it might be safer to take Commercial, depending on time of day and day of week. If it's prime "take the dogs/kids to the park" time, getting a group of cyclists through the park on the trails around leashes and families could be tricky, especially if the group is strung out enough for people to let go of their little ones between cyclists.

(in my head, there's a large, thumbed, responsible creature trying to restrain an incredibly enthusiastic, flexible, and strong smaller creature from the Object Of Intense Desire across the speeding cyclist filled trail, with a potentially horrible ending... perhaps this is a statistically unlikely event, but I cannot help but identify with all parties in the situation enough to wish to avoid it.)

ejwme, I can understand where you're coming from with that. I've never been on that trail at a "peak" time, so it's always deserted for me.

Personally, I never ride down Commercial, solo or with a group. Way too crazy. This cut through takes out some of the elevation change, it's basically flat instead of climbing up to Beechwood then coming back down Commercial.

Six months ago I was messing around with some google mapping tools + js, and had something that worked the way I wanted it. But I never got it hosted anywhere. Right now I don't think I can get google sites to run javascript, so all have at the moment is this woeful prototype. If I have something else worth looking at I'll link it in the next few days.

Six months ago I was messing around with some google mapping tools + js, and had something that worked the way I wanted it.

nerds of the world, unite!

also, if anyone wanted to solve that graph traversal problem mentioned a few pages back:

Ah, but can you so arrange the ride so that you visit each neighborhood once and only once?

(well, a subset of it, since there are more than two neighborhoods that are accessible by exactly one other neighborhood.)

i (geez i don't even want to say this) hacked up a csv file containing an edge list of the connections between pittsburgh neighborhoods. feel free to find the minimum spanning tree, or the most "central" neighborhood. or whatever else.

To All

Sorry this post is so 24-hours later

@ urbanrider

Great to see you posting on the board, and great idea about making several Team Decaf rides from pieces of the whole.

a group of cyclists through the park on the trails around leashes

Good news/bad news!

Good news: I often ride through Frick Park and it is never a problem because of leashes stretched across a trail.

Bad news: That is because dog owners almost always (illegally) let their dogs run uncontrolled as the owners walk through the park. I usually have to slow way down (no more so than for oblivious pedestrians) but occasionally I am concerned that a dog is going to run out in front of me and make me fall and/or bite me.

iever - Animal Control has been doing sweeps and writing tickets on weekends lately. I know, because my normally silent, sweet, shy dog barks non-stop at their little van in the most embarrassing way. She's 100% leashed, licensed, and vaccinated and we also carry all her vet papers with us, but it still freaks me out that they'll decide she's a problem and take her. She only does it to their van, the park maintenance vehicles (and all others) are ignored. We did NOT teach her that trick!

Unleashed dogs bother me, but what bothers me the most are people with ~100 foot "leashes" (like that dog is under anything resembling control). THOSE are the leashes that stretch across trails acting as lovely trip wires, with both dog and owner paying no attention whatsoever. sigh.

Slightly improved hosting now for the neighborhood lookup map. I haven't really looked at this in half a year and the interface is lousy but if you are in the city, it should tell you where you are.

Awesome, Nate.

Hey, this new site http://www.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/snap/ should replace anything I ever spent time on.

Dude, I don't see any cool neighborhood maps there, but maybe I missed it.

OK, at the bottom they do have neighborhood maps, but the labels are kind of lacking in some places, mispositioned in others.

Didn't want to forget this. Has anyone done any more reconnaisance on this, partial sections or anything?

Bumping. Bikefest. Someone do.

Wife just scheduled some family vacation right in the heart of bikefest (grinding teeth together).

Why not just do it? Set a date & time. Say August 18 at the end of BikeFest (so it doesn't conflict with PedalPgh and can work as a closing event), start at 8 am (it's a long and challenging ride), Penn Ave & 34th St (the arbitrary starting point of the map at http://ridewithgps.com/routes/914682).

@edmonds- my family vacation was either at the beginning or middle of bike fest. I chose middle cause I didn't want to miss pedal pgh.

I'm in. August 18th 8am at Penn and 34th.

Wait, does that route hit east liberty or not? And are we adding a trip to Oh Yeah?

One more post, okay I see it hits the intersection of Penn and Negley. Close enough.

Cool. Not to leave you hanging, I'll try to be there, too. Lets me see all those remaining untagged neighborhoods.

sorry, couldnt resist :7

it seems like a ride of this size could use folks getting together to coordinate. i might even be a good idea to have it over two days, for example.

also: lulz at the seat angle!

Ok Rain Man. Make sure you get home in time for Wapner.

Cute about the seat angle. But I see myself in more somber clothes.

I'm totally down with whatever people decide but I would prefer not to have to ride on Sunday if possible because then I would have to skip my Quaker meeting. Ahab was a Quaker, you know.

if we do it all in one day, the less experienced of us won't find out what a bad idea it was until after it's over (it's like a thousand miles or something, right?). if it's split over two days, the second half may suffer for the overnight realization of what has transpired. *ahem*

Captain Ahab? I thought he was just a quack.

I'd prefer a single day as well.

I have not delved into the details of the roughed-out route, but it should be easy enough to identify a middle-ish bailout point, with folks who want to do it in 2 days to arrange the second day meetup and resume.

My longest ride this year was Sunday, 55 miles, felt good, but it was a lot of flat. It would be fun to shoot for the whole route at once, but it would also be fun to stop at any pierogi/taco/noodle truck/ice cream places on the route. So far undecided.

8/18 is my Bday, family allowing me to exscape for a day would be an excellent gift.

dude, I think refueling stops for snacks and lunch (and dinner? how long can we go!) are a good idea regardless of number of days involved.

In a world full of ride leaders, perhaps the best option could be to hold one on day one in one direction with a half-way stop for lunch, and the same ride in the reverse with the same stop for lunch (or something across the street, for variety), so that people could partake in either a single full day or two half days (or two full days). In fact if the half way point is reliably planned, non-rider support could join for lunch just to be social with the nuts who are riding literally "All Over Pittsburgh"

Started looking at this. I'm thinking midpoint lunch break/supporty friends meet/bailout-Sunday restart for 2 day riders at the parklet at 12th & Carson, South side. About mile 44.8. Ok/Nokay?

We're going back up the top of the hill right after that point. So, additional challenge? OTB. Burger and two drink minimum. Do it, you won't.

Is anybody going to post this to the BikeFest ride calendar? I plan to be there, Penn & 34th, at 8 am on August 18th, but I'd rather not be the ride leader.

Will no one commit to leading this ride? I'd really like to see it on the BikeFest calendar but they won't put it up there without someone signing on as ride leader.

I plan to do the ride in any case, and will be there August 18 at 8 am with my GPS loaded. I'll even print out some cue sheets for people to use.

@jonawebb -- if you're showing up with cue sheets for people, it sounds to me like you've already become the de facto ride leader. If you've done all the work, you might as well get all the glory. (And I'm sure there will be a lot of it.)

FYI, there's a route in Oscar Swan's book near the back that might very well accomplish a lot of what you want to. It's labeled "The Great Ride".

I was excited about this but my riding since June has gone in the crapper, damn work, grr. No way I'd be able to complete it. I don't know, if there's a cue sheet I might try half then half.

I would strongly consider leading this if Jon or someone else puts together a good map and cue sheet. I could even set up an aide station, complete with restroom, half way through the ride. It sounds like a cool ride.

I'm in for 8/18 at 8am @ 34th and Penn.

@jonawebb -- I'll volunteer to help lead it. I've done plenty of long rides, but I've never led one so I'm not quite comfortable doing it alone. Want to volunteer?

@Jacob -- The maps are all saved in my profile on ridewithgps.com: http://ridewithgps.com/users/8020. Cue sheets can be automatically generated from them, or they can be loaded into a GPS. I'm happy to assist if you wind up leading it.

I'd recommend we use this version of the route, rather than the one posted above: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/920628. It's a hair shorter and a little easier on the hills. I need to double-check that it still hits every neighborhood, though. If anyone has any tips/changes/etc., let me know. If we going to make this official, I should probably lock it down and hide the other versions.

I'm in. Will luckily just have returned from a little backpacking trip. Also can probably round up some family/friends to provide support if need be.

Excellent!

Matt: The maps are great. However, I have serious reservations about riding on Route 51 for a few miles, and also the section of Route 837/East Carson between Sandcastle and the city. I will take a look at all the various iterations and see if any are better.

Great news! Please contact BikeFest so it goes on the calendar.

I'll be happy to help lead. I don't want sole responsibility because I'm slow and old and might drop.

If anyone has updates to the maps let me know. I'll do the printing etc.

I just submitted this ride to BikePGH to be included on the calendar. Here is the description I entered on the website:

Start: August 18, 8:00 a.m. at 34th and Penn.

This is a road bike ride of around 80 miles, the goal of which is to touch every City of Pittsburgh neighborhood. We should be able to hit the overwhelming majority of them. It is not a race, will not be ridden at an aggressive pace, and is a "no drop" ride. With that said, it should be noted that the course involves around 8,000 feet of climbing and is by no means an easy ride. We will do our best to avoid busy roads, but a few roads, out of necessity, will not be ideal for bicycles. There will be rest and food stops at stores as needed, and about half way through the ride the will be an aide station with food, drinks, a bathroom, bike repair tools, etc. for folks who stay with the ride leader(s). There should be a few good points to "bail out." If you are planning to do the whole ride, you should anticipate a long day on the bike and plan accordingly.

Helmets are required. Light or intermittent rain does NOT cancel; heavy or continuous rain cancels. Bring some money for food at stores (or the bus if you bonk!) and make sure you have enough tubes for a few flats.

Excellent, thanks so much for doing this.

No problem, it should be fun. Matt's map marked as "no. 202" looks like it will work the best, with a few changes to avoid major roads and to hit a few more neighborhoods. I will try to figure out how to modify the map and will drive or ride the sections of the course I don't know.

I really hate to be negative and say this but based on leading numerous rides I would respectfully ask that the following types of people NOT COME:

1. Megalomanics who want to make it into their own private road race or training ride by "pushing the pace." Just go do a race.

2. Know-it-alls who want to alter the course or because they know a better way. If anyone has input on a better course, speak up now, not on the ride.

3. Self-absorbed cyclists trying to jam a ride into a too-small time slot. The ride will go at the group's pace, not that of someone who has other obligations later than afternoon.

I'm totally on board with those guidelines Thanks for volunteering to lead this!

I'll have a look at .202 this afternoon...any specific tweaks you can think of? I'll hide the other versions and republish this one with any changes over the next week or so.

My wife has graciously volunteered to set up and man an aid station (she's an ultra-marathoner and experienced in such things)...any thoughts on a good place? I was looking at the mid-point, and much of it is unfortunately in fairly shady places where I'm not sure she'd be comfortable hanging out with the kids for an hour or two...though Baily & Boggs on Mt. Washington looks pretty promising.

Also, my house is two blocks off the route @ mile 17.8 (in Brighton Heights)...it's a bit early for an aid station, but we can certainly stop for water or emergency maintenance if needed.

Wow, this is really coming together. Wonderful!

What about some place on Grandview Avenue? That is the midpoint and I know there are overlooks etc. which would work.

While the ride itself is a bit out of my league, I'd offer to assist at an aid station (providing its not out in the sticks.) Not much experience at it, but i can sure wrangle the heck out of setting up cups of cold drinks & snacks.

A location on/near grandview ave would be good. There's a nice view to enjoy and it would be after the majority of climbing.

^Thanks for the offer of assistance. As for the aide station, my present plan is to set it up at a commercial building I own near the Zone 3 police station, which is at about mile 40. It is not Grandview Ave., but it does have lots of space, a toilet and running water, is on the route, and can be set up the night before. Also, mechanical issues can be easily addressed there. I would have to meet someone in person before handing over the keys. If someone wants to set up another rest area as well, that would be great.

As for altering the route, where it hits Route 51 it should go up to Brownsville Road in Carrick so that we 1) don't ride on 51; 2) touch Carrick; 3) touch Bon Air; and 4) are in a better position to swing through Beltzhoover, Knoxville, Allentown, etc.

Matt, please shoot me an email at jcm250b at juno dot com for my phone number as it is too much of a hassle to alter or further discuss the route via message board.

Too lazy to go back and read and don't recall if I asked this before. Are there any steep hills? Like steeper than Henderson on the north side?

Here is the elevation profile:



So, yeah.

BTW sorry so small. Google+ sharing is down and I can't get Flickr to link to a bigger photo.

what are the hills specifically? i would like to check them out to see if i need gears.

more than likely both front & rear gears would be beneficial.

The route is at http://ridewithgps.com/routes/920628

Here is a brief update for this ride:

After Pedal Pittsburgh I drove the first half of the 80.9 mile, ".202" route (not the one posted above), which appeared to be the most faithful to the "hit all the neighborhoods" theme. For the most part everything worked out fine, but a few of the hills were pretty insane. The map posted immediately above is better in that regard and I now plan to use it, with a few changes, as the route.

I am going to take a closer look at how we can hit more of the neighborhoods with less climbing as I want to make the ride a viable choice for as many riders as possible. For example, I think we can hit the West End before heading up into the North Side, which should save us from descending into the West End 20 miles later, only to climb right back out of it on Noblestown.

Any way you slice it there is a ton of climbing. I will do my best to make it as manageable as possible, but I would ask that riders help themselves, and me to a lesser extent, by leaving behind racks, saddlebags, extra tools, etc. I will have a pump, chain breaker and multi-tool.

Here is a question on which I'd appreciate feeback: would riders prefer to deal with less-than-ideal roads in order to climb less, or would you rather climb more in exchange for lower-traffic roads?

Edit: There will be a stop at a nice coffee shop in Beechview called Brew on Broadway. The owner reached out to me and kindly invited us to stop by. We stopped yesterday while driving the route and it will be a very nice place to stop (and much needed after climbing Crane Ave).

First, I really appreciate your doing this. I'm looking forward to the ride either way, but I guess I'd prefer lower-traffic roads even if they're steeper.

BTW I found a shop that sells an ideal T-shirt for this ride -- Commonwealth Press on the Southside (1931 E Carson). They don't have it on their website but it shows all the Pittsburgh neighborhoods, names bunched together, laid out like a map.

Edit: No, wait, they do. Here:

I might be in for this. Gonna try to get two bikes ready and enough supplies on hand (tubes to fit, water, food to carry). Thanks for the tip on what not to bring.

damn, I'll be out of town for this

That's a nice shirt. I'm gettin one, ride or not.

I feel like I touched a lot of neighborhoods on Sunday. But if I did 63 m and 5,000 ft of climbing Sunday, and I felt good, I'll bet I could do this.

Okay, the distance and amount of climbing initially scared me off, but now I want to do this. I'll be prepared to bail if necessary.

And I appreciate the note about leaving extra tools and stuff behind. I think I might even pull off my rear rack and any other extra stuff I can. I love my heavy steel road bike, but I was really feeling the extra weight yesterday with that plus my tendency to try to bring along an entire bike shop worth of tools just in case

I have that shirt! I got it at wildcard on butler st.

This ride is coming together nicely.

@pearmask: Yes, you should pull the racks and fenders off of the bike, and leave the bike shop worth of tools at home. Between what I will carry and what is at the rest stop, there should be no need for tools.

@Stu: Be advised that there are some serious downhills on the course, so you will want to get the braking woes discussed on the other thread figured out.

@Edmonds: Yes, you can make it. I have been looking at ways to make the climbs more gradual, and avoiding others, and it shouldn't be that bad. I have to figure out a decent way to hit the Hill District and Polish Hill at the end without too much duress, but I think it can be done, even if it involves a few more miles.

Also, if anyone wants some special food, drinks, etc. to be at the mid-way rest stop, let me know and something can be worked out. We are planning to have plenty of food and drinks (read: don't bring a bunch of heavy food) but if someone has some special dietary needs they can be accommodated. Just shoot me an email; it should be in a preceding post.

Yeah, thanks, I'll do all that if I do end up coming. I'm still not sure I'm physically up to it, and my bike still isn't very light even when stripped down, so I may end up chickening out, but we'll see.

FYI, the 31SB is currently closed to all traffic and last I heard it will probably stay that way until late 2012.

Maybe adjust so that the first leg goes down Penn through the heart of the Strip, then connect to the North Shore trail at the 16SB?

Other option could be to start in the opposite direction towards the 40SB and connect to the trail in Millvale.

the first option is a good idea. herr's island slash washington's landing isn't technically its own neighborhood, it's part of troy hill.

I'm likely to join this ride - sounds like masochistic fun. Do we have an estimate for the number of people yet?

I would predict: we'll have a range of speeds, and people will get flats, so we'll get spread out. But the writeup says "a no-drop ride", so should we plan on splitting into several groups, to accommodate the range of speeds, so the fast people don't get bored waiting, and the slow people don't feel too rushed?

The stretches on Greentree, Banksville, and Route 51 don't look pleasant. Riding in tight packs there would be wise, for safety.

I designed a ride that is somewhat similar in spirit that I call the Pittsburgh Hilly Loop: see http://ridewithgps.com/routes/193966 . I found it surprisingly tiring, when done on a hot day, so let's hope that Saturday is cool.

I won't be there. Sorry.

Jake and I spent some time tweaking the route tonight. Here's the final draft:

http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1575641

It starts and ends at the Bike Pittsburgh office (though technically you've hit every neighborhood @ Roup & Penn and can call it done). We managed to trim the distance to just over 70 miles and the climbing to just under 7000 feet. We used Nate's neighborhood overlay map to make sure we hit them all (http://megliozen.com/mapping/)

I've set all of the other versions to private to eliminate any confusion. This one will stay up for 24 hours for any final suggestions, and tomorrow (Monday) at midnight I'll lock it down so that cue sheets can be printed.

You seem to have cut several neighborhoods in the process, unfortunately: North Squirrel Hill, South Oakland, Duquesne Hts, Fineview, Spring Garden, and Troy Hill, among others...

I am not sure about North Squirrel Hill and South Oakland, but based on the neighborhood maps from which we were working, the route should just touch the borders of Duquesne Heights (in the West End), Fineview, Spring Garden and Troy Hill. We could make a route that goes through every neighborhood, rather than just straddling the borders, but to go through the centers of the above-mentioned neighborhoods you are looking at about 9,000 feet of vertical climbing and 90 odd miles, and the route would make the Dirty Dozen seem like a rail trail ride. We are trying to make this a viable ride for as many folks as possible. If we somehow miss a neighborhood, well, there is always next year.

http://www.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/snap/, which sounds like an official map, has North Squirrel Hill extending to Fifth and Neville, which the route does touch.

And it has South Oakland extending to the Birmingham Bridge, which the route crosses.

Once the map is official I will go through and make a cue sheet that notes the neighborhoods we traverse or touch.

Duq. Heights is covered by the W. End circle, Fineview at the corner of Carrington & Federal, Spring Garden by the corner of Spring Garden & Concord, Troy Hill by the Northside end of the 16th St. Bridge, North Oakland is clearly crossed on Forbes, and previously touched just after leaving the Bloomfield Bridge, and South Oakland is covered by the Birmingham Bridge and the ride up the sidewalk on Fifth.

Here's the final map: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1583234

We've got one built-in rest stop at mile 36.6, and my wife has graciously volunteered to man one or two more, with gatorade, water, and gels (sort of a gas-and-go). Any thoughts on where they ought to be?

I was thinking of putting her at Sherwood & Sheraden (mile 18.3) and again at Braddock and Forbes (mile 51.5). Thoughts?

We live a few blocks from the intersection of Forbes & Braddock, so I can help out with the rest stop if you like. My husband Nate will be part of the ride.

Please feel free to email me .... gmail ..... marymeg ....if you'd like a hand.

I'm excited to see that the route goes down Parkwood. I just explored that a month ago. It's got a half mile of ghost road! Very rideable and nice. I actually intended to tag it in tag-o-rama (not that I can ever manage to get out to pick anything up) but now that this ride will show it off I won't need to.

Also, credit where credit is due, the source of the overlay map is Chris Briem, I just modded it a little and put it up.

Yes, the ride down Parkwood should be pretty cool - that's a little slice of Pittsburgh that isn't often seen. A few more comments on the ride:

1. Other than the climbs out of Arlington Heights and Hazelwood, most of the tough hills are before the mid-point rest stop. So, if you can make it to mile 36, you should be able to do the rest. We put a lot of time and effort into figuring out how to minimize the climbs.

2. Jon is printing cue sheets, so if riders want to go ahead or fall behind, they are free to do so. However, I don't think we can promise that the rest stops will be open for those who want to go ahead or fall behind.

3. If anyone has solid plans to attend, please email me at jcm250b at juno dot com so we have at least a base line for how much food to have at the mid-way stop, as well as cue sheets. We have a decent selection of food and drinks but do not want to run out.

I've made a cue sheet, marking the neighborhoods, and uploaded it here. I verified the neighborhoods following the map at http://www.pittsburghpa.gov/dcp/snap/, which seems official.

You can print it from there. I'll also bring printed copies and some maps.

Did this ever get posted to the bikefest calendar? I don't see it.

(More usefully for my own cetaceans, is there a Facebook event anywhere?)

I'll try to be there, but I'm not convinced I'm up to it. (I'm not up to much at 8am Saturday, but that's a separate issue.)

It's listed as "A Ride That Touches Every Pittsburgh Neighborhood". August 18, 8 am.

oh, i get it, bikefest calendar doesn't copy to the bikepgh calendar, which of course was the one I was looking at.

I made up maps of the route for printing. See https://www.dropbox.com/sh/8lz96dnmp2hha9v/NJJ2Q-yANk . There's an overview map and four zoomed-in quadrant maps. You could print them and bring them for Saturday. For anybody falling behind, the map shows numerous ways to shortcut the ride. The route I used is the one at http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1583234 .

I wish I could do this ride but unfortunately I work 12hrs that day.

Too many things have come up, unfortunately, including a pair of apartment viewings Saturday. I plan to be at Flock & Lightup, but I'll miss this.

My friend Paul Heckbert made some maps of the Terrible Tour. I've shared them at https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B0SsCVLENRv4eXpGSzFrOEkwbEk. You can print them from there if you like. I'll also print some to distribute to the riders.

See you Saturday!

Oh yeah I am leading the light up ride on the evening of this ride. I am very tempted to do this one.. But I would definitely have to do it fixed.. Weather does look perfect though.

getting psyched for this. i haven't done any kind of tough ride since the dirty dozen, so this should be a fun test.

im not hard enough to do this ride, but good luck tomorrow. in case you dont already have a flyer, feel frfee to use this old pic:

I kept thinking of this image yesterday and laughing. Thanks for posting it again. I have this goofy voice in my head that goes along with it.

I think this ride just passed me and Erok's house on Hatfield St. in Lawrenceville! We had just come in from gardening and heard ding-ding-ding out front. Was that you guys???

Ride report? Man what a specfreakingtacular day.

I bailed once we hit highland ave., but I belive I hit the other hoods on my commute to the ride. Few mechanical issues, one flat tire, not bad for +-20 riders. Really well organized, rest areas had water, gatorade, gu, crackers, cliff bars, and more. A+++ to the ride organizers and their families. Wanted to get in some cat 6 training, but everyone rode respectfully. Really great ride!!!!!

awesome ride, top to bottom (and then back to the top again). jon, jake, and matt did an excellent job organizing and planning the route. the rest stops were impeccably stocked, and the support was terrific. jake did a great job going back down pretty much every hill we came up to make sure everyone made it. a hearty thanks to everyone involved!

edited to add: apparently we had sponsors, and i would also like to thank them. unfortunately i don't know the organization's name, so hopefully someone will fill that in for me. but thanks to them, as well!

Great job to all involved in planning this ride. I know it couldn't have been easy, but you pulled it off in spectacular fashion. I think Matt's wife might have put in more miles than we did, rolling from rest stop to rest stop, with everything we needed!

I think we should reconsider the name of this ride for next year - how about "The Barking Dog Ride"? ha!

It was a fantastic ride. I had a great time in spite of the mechanical issue that kept me from completing after Regent Square. Now I really can tag all the neighborhoods. Thanks to Jake, Matt, and Matt's wife and kids.

I didn't do the ride, so I could be talking out of my ass, but any chance this could become sort of the "zenith" ride on Pedal Pgh, the "hors categorie"? It would give the grumblers something to chew on (personally I would go full snarky and say, you want a ride? Here's yer f'ing ride). Also I think it really has what a marketer would call "resonance".

But it would really put the Bike Pgh! stamp on Pedal Pittsburgh, pretty much fully conceived and executed by the community. Just a thought.

How would that work?

I will definitely help make sure the ride happens next year in any case. May even be one of the ride leaders since thanks to Matt and Jake's skilful routing and Matt's wife's rest stops it wasn't a hard as I'd feared.

Btw thanks also to Mary and Nate for the eat stop. I didn't get to it but I'm sure it was nice.

I dunno, theres a route and a map, it's been ridden and tried. Sounds like it worked quite well for 20 people, scale it up.

The ride was great, I think because we had a terrific ride leader and a group of people that stuck together. When you scale it up, I think you'll run into problems. On the ride you will encounter terrible pavement, bad traffic, unfriendly roads, surprising turns, iffy neighborhoods. You'll certainly make wrong turns and get off the route, and quite possibly get actually lost.

I loved it and will do it again, but I'd be cautious about making it lots bigger where small groups & individual riders will be dropped.

Do it again next year, same scale. Didn't Dirty Dozen take a couple of years to get rolling?

The ride was awesome...I don't think it could have gone any better. We had a great crowd and the weather was perfect. Jake did an awesome job leading the ride and keeping the group together.

My favorite part remains coming out of the woods on Parkwood to see the family outside working on their car. I was the third rider to emerge, and the guy looked at me and said, "What the...?" and then 19 more riders came out. We definitely left them scratching their heads over it

Thanks to Jake for doing such an awesome job leading the ride, Jon for the cue sheets and picking a date/time for it to happen (I don't think it would have, otherwise), Nate and Mary for hosting the last rest stop, and my wife for ferrying food and refreshments all over the city, and Elite Runners and Walkers (my wife's employer) for donating some gatorade and the two cases of Gu.

I think we should stick to the same scale for next year. It is not an easy ride, and it would be asking a lot of the leader to be in charge of a group any larger. There are also the two sections which require some trespassing (from Becks Run onto the trail, and again from the trail onto Baldwin at Sandcastle) which would probably prohibit any "official" endorsement by Bike Pittsburgh. My vote is to do it in the same way next year. If it grows much bigger, we're going to need multiple ride leaders and may need to change it to a “drop” ride where we leave the stragglers behind.

All in all, I had a total blast on my first group ride. Now I just need to find another regular one to keep myself busy until next year

@HiddenVariable: Elite Runners and Walkers in Robinson Twp donated some of the gatorade, coolers, and the two cases of energy gels

great ride! I will definitely do this one again! Maybe next year we can get a few more ladies to join. (just to clarify; i am female, not a creeper)

I agree that the faces of surprise at the bottom of Parkwood were great. I was at the tail end of the line after taking some photos at the top. The folks working on the car were still surprised at that point.

After struggling to figure out how to post photos I just put a few on the bikefest image dump thread.

Here's a photo I took at our house (rest stop #3)

Oops ... not working right now. I'll have to figure out where to put the photo. I'll be back.

The whole thing reminded me of the A-Team show, where Hannibal says at the end, "I love it when a plan comes together."

All kidding aside, I appreciate the kind words above and have to commend EVERYONE for their substantial efforts at making this work. The bottom line is that this would not have worked well without everyone's efforts. I will likely overlook someone given everything involved, but here is my quick list of who did what to make this ride work as correctly described above:

1) Matt, who invested substantial time in making a viable route, including multiple revisions to make it hit every neighborhood AND be rideable (not easily done), without which the whole thing would not have happened;

2) Matt's wife Jen and two kids, who generously procured excellent rest stop food, set up and helped with the rest stops, including the second stop in an unknown location, and took the supplies from stop to stop;

3) Elite Runners and Walkers, which generously donated Gu's, Gatorade and the use of equipment for the rest stops;

4) Jon W. and Paul H., who generously made cue sheets and maps, respectively, both of which were very well done and took some time, without which we would have been riding around like the cast of Gilligan's Island for half the ride;

5) My girlfriend Kelley, who generously gathered and made a great deal of food, Gatorade, etc. for the rest stops (I told her, "mix that Gatorade strong, I don't want these people to be bonking on me.";

6) Nate and Mary, who generously hosted and stocked a much-needed rest stop in their front yard, and provided much-needed guidance in areas with which I was unfamiliar;

7) Sam R. and her coffee shop in Beechview, Brew on Broadway, who kindly invited us to stop by and made sure that she had plenty of ice water, coffee, etc. on hand (that's where the band is);

The various riders who, at various points, helped out with intersections, a thankless but critical task;

9) Last but most certainly not least, the entire group of riders, a highly skilled and gentlemanly group who I look forward to seeing again. I was especially appreciative of the road manners and general adherence to law which prevailed; it was far better than what I reasonably could have expected and that took a lot of stress off of my shoulders.

I am pressed for time today but will comment in a day or two on some of the issues raised above for next year's ride. However it happens, it will happen again, and it will again be good. Thanks again to every one who participated and contributed. It's always nice to go home and say, "wow, that was a really good day in my life."

Rachel,

That was probably us on the Pool Ride that were *dinging* for you are Erok on Hatfield!

Regarding doing this as a Pedal PGH route, I hate to say it but I am not sure it would be worth the effort. I see many issues, as Matt and Nate correctly mentioned. I'd add a few more to what they've said:

1. You pass through at least two other boroughs, Greentree and Baldwin, which I imagine requires some advance notice and/or politicking. You may get "cool, call if you need something," or it may be like getting an act of Congress to put up signs. I really can't say for sure.

2. You need a completely separate set of rest areas and signs along the route. I doubt the signs and food would break the budget, but placing and removing them takes a lot of time. You would be setting up a completely independent 70 mile Pedal Pittsburgh route for perhaps 100-200 participants. I can't say whether it would be worth the effort.

3. We had 3 stops: a nice public location in Brighton Heights and two other participant-owned properties. This worked for 20-25, but may be asking a little much for the organizers to handle an all-day stream of 100-200 riders.

4. I say this with great hesitation, but it's hard to publicly promote the ride AND make it clear that many riders have no business being on such a ride. Flame me if you must, but in my view the route is not for riders who are uncomfortable dealing with occasional fast traffic, steep climbs, high-speed descents and turns, choppy pavement, etc. It is also not suited for poorly conditioned riders, or riders with inappropriate equipment who blithely expect to do 70 miles of serious hills, one after the other. It took about 20 solid riders nine hours to complete the course. Granted, we stuck together, lingered at the rest stops, obeyed the laws and waited atop the hills, but casual riders would take far longer than that.

With all that said, I will do it again next year. I would only make a few changes. I would break the ride into two groups, essentially fast and slow. I'd make sure each group had a ride leader who knows the route, as well as someone riding "sweep." I would move the course a street over in two places to avoid a dangerous intersection and a hill. Other than that, plan on the event happening next year. It should be much easier next year, and it was too much fun to not revisit it.

Jake, looking forward to it!

@Jacob McCrea

1. I don't think so. As soon as bicyclist follow the road rules no advanced notification is needed. You can ask RedDan as one of organizers of long trips. PMTCC also does not notify boroughs its passing through.

2 and 3. We (as PMTCC) use gas stations, small plazas as a rest stops. We ask to bring a little bit of cash so everyone could buy drinks/food along route. Often we worn people at gas stations/subways/mcdonalds that at certain date a big group of bicyclists would come through and stop for the rest. E.g. small gasstation with restaurant at intersection of US-30 and 168 is one of our rest stop on long routes. As per marking I think that using paint is more advanced.

4. I agree completely. The only thing I can add is that if you have 100 people then you have to split them into groups and have a designated leaders per each group. Similar to what Dan and Lucia (and I helped a little bit) for 12 bridges ride. I would say two leaders per group is even better -- one in front, another one at the end sweeping.

mattre wrote:If I wanted to train for it, I’d spend some time climbing the longest and steepest hills in my neighborhood...

jonawebb wrote:The cue sheet you get when you download from Ride with GPS doesn’t include some of the turns, for some reason.

jonawebb wrote:Updated cue sheet, added first rest stop. https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0SsCVLENRv4Z2I0Z3B1eFc2dU0/edit?usp=sharing. Tomorrow 8 am.

stefb wrote:

I woke up with food poisoning so I couldn’t make it :( Maybe if others had to miss this today we could do a self supported ride sometime in the future? Hope you all have a good time.

Jacob McCrea wrote:We can probably move the first stop a few miles down the road to a ball field in Chartiers, assuming we can get the keys to the bathrooms.

fultonco wrote:I would recommend starting early and identifying some food/hydration and restroom stops because they were the keys to successfully completing the ride.

fultonco wrote:when coming off the West End Bridge and bearing right, one cannot turn onto Fulton Street in either direction because both are marked as one way streets.

Jacob McCrea wrote:we came back across the West End Bridge, made the immediate 180 degree left turn onto Western Avenue, and then made an immediate right onto Manhattan

1. Will the route for this year be the route used in 2015 (as posted by mattre)?
2. Is 8am the "meet" time or the "ride" time?
3. Rain or Shine. Right?

1. it's a challenging ride,
2. the organizers do an awesome job,
3. trying to overcome this ridiculous landscape fosters a sense of camaraderie.