BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

As a sober, vegan cyclist who isn't in the market for a new car, 99% of advertising is a complete waste of my time A bicycle attraction/resource advertising on a bicycle trail seems like a pretty big no-brainer When a friend and I went there it was hard to find and there were some signs around at that point (I think it was around spring) So what exactly is the problem with this? It looks like marking paint, which isn't permanent. Some of the photos of tags are already fading. On the reddit, it seemed like some people just didn't like the advertising and other didn't like the aesthetics I regularly pass stupid ads for the zoo, whiskey, cheap beer, some shop that buys gold, some woman drinking pepsi in skin tight clothing, etc, etc, etc, so seeing the simple "B.H." is quite tame by comparison Let's not forget the stupid American Flag BNY sign, the Bayer cliff side, the never ending Ketchup bottle, and our UMPC overlords Also, kids get off my lawn!

Bicycle heaven will do what they can to stop the graffiti,since this was a argument last month with a member here before on this site seems strange for this to happen again.Iwill have our attorney look into using our name brand as spam / damage,Bicycle Heaven is world wide and has a good name and the Museum is a good thing for Pittsburgh.If you want to post things about Bicycle Heaven be certain your not posting spam graffiti your self,,you may be at risk. I have had a few people ask me about the tags but most think its no big deal,i don't like it and as I said we will do what we can and do what we have to do if someone or any web site uses my good name brand bicycle heaven.I never got a call or have ever met Quizbot I guess just hes not a man to do it but seems very strange for him to go out on this so much.

When BH tags were first spray-painted on the trail surface, I gave the BH-people some feedback in a thread. They explained that it was errant Boy Scouts who had marked up the trail. Then they posted with a different username and a pretend-immigrant's broken syntax about how BH was the savior of this pseudo-person's transpo needs. Then the thread was removed from the board. Recently on the trail, I see that the faded BH markings have been repainted. I guess the Boy Scouts must be maintaining their signage. Those damned Boy Scouts, they're such scoundrels. It's almost tempting to spray paint additional misleading markers for BH and blame it on the Girl Scouts. It's ugly commercial spray-paint graffiti on a pretty green river trail.

it's a 'burgh thing, deal with it

Dear Vannevar Bicycle Heaven gets many bike groups to vist the Museum from all around the world not just Pittsburgh and as a champion member of pgh my money helps the bike trails and the events, now i don't know how much money you have spent but it cost me a lot.I love the bike trails and susport Bike Pittsburgh,The first time i saw markers was when the boy scouts came to visit and like many groups they mark the trail.I have had markers right in front of my shop do to Bike Fest and i dident complain and was ok with me.Bicycle Heaven has worked on the bike trails the same to make it better.I have many flyers that we send out and get many people who stop by the Museum and love it and offer to hand out flyers and what they do with them i cant help 100% of the time.I want everyone to know and to you and Quizbot im sorry for the markers and as i said will do my best to stop it but for you to slander me may be more than you can handle, you never ever came to face me about this ever or even a phone call.I love bicycles and i love Pittsburgh and for 30 hard years of collecting my bikes to build a bike Museum it was a dream of mine .I did it on my own with a few friends WITH no help from banks loans or government help,,i work hard open 7 days a week from 10 till 7 every day / night .i will say it again im sorry to all who are upset over this ,,Bicycle Heaven is free,,thats right free to who ever want's to visit,

@Pierce: I was wondering why so many people on the trails around the South Side get lost trying to find OTB. No OTB tags on the trails, streets, sidewalks and curbs. It's a navigational nightmare. @bicycle heaven: "seems strange for this to happen again" Honestly, does it really seem that strange? People notice things and share them on the internet. Apparently, it was mentioned on bike-pgh a while ago and now someone completely unrelated to this board noticed, took 80 or so pictures of the vandalism, and posted about it on a different site with much more visibility. People see the tagging as a nuisance. I'm not "posting spam graffiti", just sharing links. Go ahead and call your lawyer regarding that & get back to me. I'm dying to hear about my fate. If anyone has anything to worry about, it's the Boy Scouts for their propensity toward defacing public property. I know how they operate, and it is not pretty.

Whoever is responsible, it is in bad taste. I'm thankful to have an establishment like Bicycle Heaven and I hope that Bicycle Heaven has nothing to do with the graffiti. If Bicycle Heaven is responsible for the graffiti, then I think it is fair to state that fact here, in order to show a general disapproval of such things. I'm not asking you to fess up to it, just please stop if you are responsible or know who is... and hopefully this will not be brought up in yet another thread. @quizbot, calm down... he said he'd have his lawyers look into the use of the BH graffiti (implying that a third party is responsible, without his consent). For the sake of maintaining a respectful tone, lets just give the guy the benefit of the doubt. No one threatened to send lawyers after you (unless I missed something?). Thanks for sharing the link, I had no idea that the tags were so rampant.

"Unable to develop a wayfinding schema, the South Side chamber of commerce decides to implement an evolving North Side trail navigation standard"

I just read the thread from the reddit quizbot referenced in his original post. Wow. Apparently the apocalypse is upon us. It was swell knowing you all. Hope you all have lots of bottled water and canned goods.

Ahlir wrote:it’s a ‘burgh thing, deal with it

Agreed. Goodness, talk about making a mountain out of a mole hill. I tried to find that place once and couldn't. Maybe with a little arrow on the bike trail it would be easier to find. At least it is a bike place.

gg wrote:Maybe with a little arrow on the bike trail it would be easier to find.

Thanks to the magic of the internet, there is no need for at least 75 little arrows spray painted on the trails, streets, and sidewalks of the surrounding neighborhood. Typing Bicycle Heaven in Google Maps will give you directions. There is even an option for bicycling directions, and it utilizes the trail system.

quizbot wrote:there is no need for at least 75 little arrows spray painted on the trails, streets, and sidewalks of the surrounding neighborhood.

I haven't been there. If there is over 75 arrows or more, I would say that is pretty ridiculous. Probably looks as bad as that horrible paint mess on the Ellsworth/East Liberty pedestrian bridge. Goodness, whoever did that mess shouldn't be in art at all. Looks like total crap, but it is there now. Sure looked better plain. Anyway, I had no idea there were over 75 arrows around that area for bicycle haven. If true, I am reversing my stance and agreeing with you. Thanks.

Just looked at the gallery. It's pretty obnoxious.

I'll be marking the roads for the upcoming PedalPgh ride just like I did last year. I'll be painting all the potholes and marking all the turns. I must say, it looks quite awful on some streets. Yet last year all I heard was how great the ride was marked. I don't remember hearing one complaint. Now I'm not condoning all the BH tags laid down on the trail (by whoever), but why the firestorm over this and not for other stuff. I don't hear people complaining about all of the graffiti and tags along the jail trail; some are not "artistic" but just tags not much different than BH. The guy said he didnt authorize this. The paint is already fading. Lets move on. EDIT: Looking at the gallery some of the tags look NEW. Since this would have been done after the community outburst the first time - I think someone from BH should gray-paint over these.

rsprake wrote:Just looked at the gallery. It’s pretty obnoxious.

Yeah, I just looked as well. That is street litter. I had no idea there were that many poorly painted graffiti signs all over the place. I haven't been there yet and now I have to say, I think I will forgo a visit. I can't condone that crap. Wow, I thought there were just a couple little arrows. There is even one that has it on the street and right next to it on the curb! Guess he was really in the mood to make things look bad that day.

Marko marking roads for safety is one thing but trails and roads pointing to a well established business is another. But i travel the trail every day and its not common to see new graffiti up so it is a "burgh" thing

Marko82 wrote:: Looking at the gallery some of the tags look NEW. Since this would have been done after the community outburst the first time – I think someone from BH should gray-paint over these.

I can't speak for anybody else, but if those tags hadn't been repainted, if they'd just faded and aged, I really doubt this discussion would still be kicking. If it originally was just one or two arrows on the trail, this wouldn't have ever had any energy. I'm just so upset that the BoyScouts would come out and junk up the trail again. Ordinarily they're like "leave no trace", right? But I guess you put them on a trail and they want to earn their Urban Tagging merit badge. I do think that Marko has identified the proper response: to ensure that nobody confuses the business with the graffiti, it would be conscientious and brand-prudent of them to gray-paint over these graffitis.

I never said the Boy Scouts did the tagging but after they came by is when we had a complaint .A few groups come by that same week it could be anyone any time.Bike Pittsburgh had us on the rout on a bike ride and the trail was tagged and still some riders got lost.The tags just lead to the Museum and I think when other groups plan a ride its easy to go over the same tags.Bicycle Heaven had a bike ride group last night and a few got lost,all I was saying is we will do our best to stop tages.The boy Scouts Bike Pittsburgh and everyone are welcome please don't tag the trail,,im getting the blame.

For the record, if we've ever tagged streets for directions, it was with a chalk based spray, that in theory washes away after a few rains. Considering the deluge at last year's Pedal PGH, it was most likely gone by the end of the day.

I find it pretty hard to believe that the person taping up flyers with mountains of tape ISN'T the same person with the spray tagging everything. Both behaviors exhibit similar levels of obsessive compulsive, just in two different modi operandi. IMHO. M2C. etc etc.

I just looked at the gallery. The BH tags on the street are totally OK by me. I had trouble finding it the first time and these would have been helpful. I'd like to see more signs giving directions on the bike trail. Even if those signs are illegal, sloppy spray paint, they are a public service.

Mick wrote:I’d like to see more signs giving directions on the bike trail. Even if those signs are illegal, sloppy spraypaint, they are a public service.

Even if there is a better way to accomplish the same end result? A more tasteful way? With fewer arrows? With chalk as opposed to spray paint? Let's tear down PNC and put 3Rivers back while we are at it... Keep Pgh beautiful! How difficult can it possibly be to find this shop???

@drewbacca Even if there is a better way to accomplish the same end result? A more tasteful way? With fewer arrows? With chalk as opposed to spray paint? yup. Even then. If every bike-related institution did the same and our trails were a cacaphony of spray paint, it would be vast improvement over trails that are a mystery to anyone who doesn't already know where those trails go. We desperately need better signage on the trails.

Drewbacca wrote: Even if there is a better way to accomplish the same end result? A more tasteful way? With fewer arrows? With chalk as opposed to spray paint?

What is a better way? And why chalk is better?

Let’s tear down PNC and put 3Rivers back while we are at it… Keep Pgh beautiful!

Let's kill all humans! Freedom to robots!

How difficult can it possibly be to find this shop???

It took me three attempts during my three lunch hours.

Bicycle Heaven will go down to remove what they can ,if it happends again let us know,,,just call us please

Bicycle Haven, I really think that, to fit the stature of the museum, you should just pony-up the money and do a nice-professional sign with map, and address that shows hot to get to BH, and maybe a blank area where you can post posters for different events so the darn "Boy Scouts or whoever" stop doing all that unsightly tagging that is just cheap. You have a nice bike collection -do proper by it! You could have something like this, (see pic), where you have a Marker coming from the "south" of the trail by the casino, another at the "north" of the trail by the Jail, and another at a key street intersection. Better than defacing the streets and trails. AND I bet you that more people might be "gosh, look at that sign, BH must be the place to be". How about that? You could also use some money on a better entrance-sign. I know you are (BH) is on a warehouse, but you could do better/be inventive about it. Just my 2c

@bicycle heaven: You should definitely let the Boy Scouts and other bike meet up people know that they're harming your reputation in the local community. Thanks for being willing to help clean up.

Did Marty Griffin have something on this evening's broadcast about this?

he could use his spiky douche hair to srcub the markings off of everything.

bicycle heaven wrote:Bicycle Heaven will go down to remove what they can ,if it happends again let us know,,,just call us please

If/when BH removes the trail graffiti advertising their business, my concern is resolved.

OK, I realize I sometimes have a hard time detecting sarcasm, but does anyone really believe that a bunch of Boy Scouts would seriously tag the streets and trails 75 times? But I guess it could be one evil Boy Scout who is too lazy to think of his own Eagle Scout service project. Perhaps he tags at night, but cleans them up during the day to rack up service project hours.

Vannevar wrote:Did Marty Griffin have something on this evening’s broadcast about this?

Oh yes he did ... see http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/08/15/trail-graffiti-leads-right-to-bike-store/

I just got done with the clean up on the trail and got rid of some other graffiti that someone used with the f word.I removed old tags and the latest ones.I want to thank everyone that helped. I paid for the thinner and paint to cover and to pay for some of the helper's.We had a extra bunch of people to stop by to support us and I thank you.Bicycle Heaven will do its best to stop this from going on but with bike fest and other events and group rides I cant help that.I am not saying Bike Pittsburgh is tagging the trails.I do have some signs on privet property that I think are ok I will look into that. Now can the news and others please get rid of the other graffiti that have F this and F that ,

Oh yes he did … see http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/08/15/trail-graffiti-leads-right-to-bike-store/ Thanks, AWallRider!

PITTSBURGH (KDKA) – Graffiti along the Three Rivers Heritage trail has gotten the attention of bike riders who say they’re disappointed someone has vandalized the bike trail with paint. There are at least 100 markings or graffiti along the trail, and they all lead to one place, Bicycle Heaven. Pittsburgh public works director Rob Kaczorowski says he has been getting a lot of complaints. “We’re going to give him time to remedy it, and if he doesn’t do it, we’re going to have to bill him for it.” KDKA Investigator Marty Griffin talked with the owner of Bicycle Heaven, Craig Morrow. Marty: “It appears at first glance that your people went out and sprayed this all over the trail, does it not?” Morrow: “Yes it does.” Marty: “But you’re saying that’s not the case?” Morrow: “No, we didn’t do it at all.” Craig Morrow says wayward bike groups did the tagger damage. “People enjoy antique bikes and things like that, and that’s what we’re about.” Marty: “You understand though it’s illegal?” Morrow: “Yes I do.” Marty: “and that it would cost the city thousands to take this up.” Morrow: “I don’t think Pittsburgh needs that.” The city has given Bicycle Heaven a few weeks to clean it up. If they don’t, they could bill them for several thousand dollars.

AWallRider wrote:but does anyone really believe that a bunch of Boy Scouts would seriously tag the streets and trails 75 times?

Easily. Get a bunch of boys (10-15), give each of them a can of spray paint, and say: "Go and mark!" And you will see results in 20 minutes. Or set them in team of twos and let them compete... After they finish you will find marks in some very unusual places. Been there, done that.

Mikhail wrote:Been there, done that.

So as a Boy Scout, you went out and tagged public property? That's pretty amazing, considering that the Boy Scouts are fairly well known to participate in graffiti removal projects. It's also contrary to their "Leave No Trace" guidelines:

Leave No Trace is a plan that helps people to be more concerned about their environment and to help them protect it for future generations. Leave No Trace applies in a backyard or local park (frontcountry) as much as it does in the wilderness (backcountry). ... Graffiti and vandalism have no place anywhere, and they spoil the experience for others. Leave your mark by doing an approved conservation project.

Mikhail wrote: Been there, done that.

Just so I understand... are you saying that when you were a Boy Scout that an Adult Leader gave you spray paint and told you to deface public property? or As an Adult Leader of a Boy Scout Troop you gave a bunch on teenage boys spray paint and told them to deface public property?

quizbot wrote:So as a Boy Scout, you went out and tagged public property? That’s pretty amazing, considering that the Boy Scouts are fairly well known to participate in graffiti removal projects.

Nope. You mind reader is broken. I provided some boys with some ideas and controlled executions. Just to occupy their mind during summer.

Seriously? "...Craig Morrow says wayward bike groups did the tagger damage..." Now BH is blaming cyclists of doing the graffiti? What happened to the "Boy Scouts"??? What a bunch of lies, but I'm glad KDKA reported on this and Public Works is forcing BH to clean up their mess. Also, smh at how this is making cyclists look like. And BTW, I was a Girl Scout growing up as a kid, and I know that "marking with permanent graffiti" is/was not a way to do things.

Way to embrace your core customer base there guy. A+ marketing strategy.

The people who are complaining about spray paint markings probably aren't Bicycle Heaven's customer base It's like saying to Kraynick to clean up his shop because people who shop at Trek don't like it I also like how the number has gone from 75 to 100 in the reporting Is there any practical reason for not having this signage rather than that it doesn't jive with your (the people upset by this) personal aesthetics or code of trail conduct? The city is completely out of it's mind to spend money on removing graffiti of any kind let alone these. If our city can be plastered with corporate crap all over the place, what's wrong with individuals or small businesses doing it? This reminds me of when I got harassed for chalking on the sidewalk by Pitt, but Panera was allowed to advertise on the sidewalk with chalk with no problem

Not what I was saying at all. Blaming "wayward bicycle groups" on the news was what I was referring to. Unless he actually did it or was aware if the person doing it, the correct and smart thing to say would be "we aren't sure who is responsible for this and while we appreciate the love from the community, we don't condone these actions and will be working with the city to address the issue as quickly as possible. "

Also I'm pretty sure a lot of the folks in this thread and over on Facebook who are upset about both the markings and the response to them from bh ate very much the core customer base. I know I am as someone who is a big bike nerd as well as a museum loving nerd in genral, and this whole thing has made me much less likely to ever go there.

I'm tagging Pierce's house with directions to the trail. And his lawn. And streetlamp. And curb. I like bikeygirl's idea. Trail map with points of interests. Help pay for the sign and I bet you can get yourself added. No need to spraybomb the shit out of public property.

Pierce wrote:The people who are complaining about spray paint markings probably aren’t Bicycle Heaven’s customer base

I'm sure Pierce is right about this. B-H's customer base, from what I've read and been told, is the online EBay store selling the bikes and parts from his inventory, and the high-net-worth Boomer collectors that find him via media and Ebay. The word "museum" seems out of place to me. Probably started as a unified warehouse. The profit in unique stuff comes from sitting on it until the right buyer come$ along, and you need a place for all that inventory. Maybe there's tax advantages to museum operations. I wonder. Let's say at one time, you used storage units at $xyz/month for storage. Instead of spending $XYZ,XYZ per year on storage, now you operate a museum at a loss and take a tax writeoff against the overall business. You move your expenses into the museum, reduce your cost, increase profits, increase your writeoffs, and improve your marketing position. I wish I understood that stuff. Just wondering. On this board, they have solicited donations of bikes and parts to the museum -- which they can then sell on Ebay and to the collectors. Nice business model. So the public rhetoric is, We're good for Pittsburgh. The business plan is, Pittsburgh is a resource for us. No different from any other extraction business. Like fracking. I think having a business is great and my compliments. I'm just not sure it's accurately a museum that should be soliciting donations of bike parts to be sold on Ebay. I'm not sure that having "bicycle" on the billboard conveys virtue. But Pierce is quite right. Very few people (if any) on that bike trail are in the key customer base.

From one of their Ebay Stores:

WE HAVE THE LARGEST COLLECTION IN THE WORLD OF THE VERY RARE BOWDEN SPACELANDER BICYCLE AND STINGRAY MUSCLE BIKES. WE HAVE IT FROM 1862 TO THE NEWEST BIKES,,CALL US FOR ALL YOUR BIKE NEEDS ON OVER 90.000 ITEMS WE SELL ON EBAY I HAVE PARTS FOR ROAD BIKES,BMX,BALLOON, CUSTOM CHOPPERS ANTIQUES,PARTS FOR SCHWINN PANTHER, PHANTOM ,TYPHOON,CORVETTE,B-6,AEROCYCLE,RANGER, LA'SALLE,EXCELSIOR,SPITFIRE,MEAD RANGER,MEAD CYCLE, PARAMOUNT,VERSITY,AUTOCYCLE,DX,ACE,LINCOLN,WHIZZER,,TORNADO,,HORNET,,STARLET,,KRATE,,STINGRAY,,FASTBACK,,RACER,,LIL TIGER,,AMF,,ROADMASTER,,B.F.GOODRICH,,COLSON COLUMBIA,,DAYTON,,ELGIN,,FIRESTONE,,HUFFMAN,,HAWTHORNE,,HUFFY,,IVER JOHNSON,,J.C.HIGGINS,,MERCURY,,SILVER KING,,MONARK,,MURRAY,,ROLLFAST, VERY LARGE COLLECTION OF VINTAGE TIRES AND RE POP TIRES,, HANDLE BARS, WHEELS, CABLES,,SPOKES,,GRIPS,,BIKE TUBES,,FORKS,,FENDERS,,BICYCLE ACCESSORIES,,CHAINS,,CHAIN GUARDS,,STREEMERS,,PEDALS,, RIMS,,HEAD BADGE,, REFLECTORS,, BIKE HORNS,,BIKE LIGHTS,,CRANKS,, HEAD SETS, CRANK SETS,,DECALS,,BICYCLE PAPER WORK & BOOKS,,APPLE KRATE,,LEMMON PEELER,, PEA PICKER,,RALEIGH CHOPPER,MANTA RAY,, COTTON PICKER,,ORANGE KRATE,, GREY GHOST,,SCHWINN SUPER DELUXE,, FASTBACK,,SHIFTERS,,BIKE MIRROR,, BANANA SEATS,SPRING FORKS,,SPEEDOMETERS,, SISSY BAR,,PADS,,BMX BIKE,,ROAD BIKES,, RACEING BIKES,,,,,,SCHWINN STORE AND BICYCLEHEAVEN WAS GIVEN AN EBAY AWARD FOR OUTSTANDING PERFORMANCE AND PROFESSIONALISM,, PLEASE GO TO BICYCLEHEAVEN MY OTHER EBAY STORE FOR OVER 80.000 OTHER BIKES & PARTS,,,,,,,,, I HAVE EVERY DARN BIKE PART YOU COULD EVER ASK FOR AND IM OPEN 7 DAYS A WEEK,,INFO ON MY EBAY ITEMS MY CRAIG MY CELL,412 716 4956 EAST COAST TIME ,AFTER NOONS BEST OR TILL 11:00 NIGHT IF NEEDED,COME VISIT OUR BIKE SHOP BIKE MUSEUM CALLED BICYCLE HEAVEN AT 1800 PREBLE AVE RJ CASEY INDUSTRAIL PARK PITTSBURGH PA 15233 COLUMBUS & PREBLE AVE

The only thing that bothers me about that, really, is the CAPS LOCK key. They are providing a service, showing folks old bikes, etc., providing a place for bike nerds to hang out, etc. Selling some of their stuff keeps them in business and gets people access to old bike parts. You think they're getting rich? Spray painting directions is sort of annoying, though. Also not that bright since it's not hard to figure out who did it. Though the strategy of blaming boy scouts and errant bike enthusiasts is cute.

The markings were gone within 2 hours of KDKA and the City showing up, mission accomplished. The horse is dead.

Pierce wrote:It’s like saying to Kraynick to clean up his shop because people who shop at Trek don’t like it

Only, it isn't... not even remotely. What Kraynick does INSIDE his own shop is his own business (granted it doesn't attract vermin or create a fire hazard for his neighbors... or otherwise break any laws). Honestly, I can see one or two signs to help with direction... even if illegal (so long as a long term plan is in the works). How any of you can defend 75-100 of these things is beyond me. Graffiti invites more graffiti. If you don't have a problem with graffiti, then there is simply no way we will see eye-to-eye on this. Even if you are ok with it, it's bad PR for the cycling community as a whole. As far as customer base, I'll still check out the museum at some point when I'm in town but this whole discussion has made me unlikely to ever be a supporter of the establishment, beyond that (but I'll hold off on that until I've had a chance to talk to Craig face-to-face and see firsthand what he brings to the burgh). I'm sure that I'm not the only one alienated by such things. That said, I do appreciate that BH acted quickly once this issue grabbed media and gov't attention.

@db, this was not what people usually mean by graffiti. Calling it that is misleading at best. It was an inept attempt to publicize a business. And when they were called out on it (by the press and government) they cleaned it up. Blaming it on boy scouts etc. was kind of sucky, they should have cleaned it up before, and I don't disagree with your bad impression of the place as a result. But let's not make it into something worse than it was.

Fair enough. Also in BH's defense... if the museum is just a "tax write off" then there would be no reason to be so helpful with directions, so I think there is an honest attempt to be part of the community going on here.

In BH defense: Regardless of the graffiti and what ebay-business the do, they DO have a very impressive collection of bikes. I've been there a couple of times, and enjoyed myself immensely every time getting lost among the rows upon rows of bikes, bike parts, and other collectibles. Also, the people I talked while there were pretty amenable. Sometimes when I've gone in long rides and find myself with no water, the BH is the only spot where to grab some shade, and get a cold drink or snack. So, from that point of view, I do-recommend checking the place. AND are also glad that BH's large collection of bikes is in Pittsburgh. AND that they donate their money and bikes to BikePgh and other events. They just need to tune-up their image & marketing (don't half-ass it)., be a responsible business/operation in ALL fronts; and don't throw under-the-bus others when you can't own up to your own shortcomings. And last but not least, THANK YOU for taking the graffiti off.

I've been to BH once and it was pretty damn amazing Very seldom do I come across interesting or novel things, BH was both How many of you have seen a bicycle from the USSR? It's obviously a business and museum museum: A building in which objects of historical, scientific, artistic, or cultural interest are stored and exhibited. Museum collections change, they buy and sell pieces too Unless the Trek chain has some mega-warehouse, BH has the largest collection of bicycles in the city. He could probably sell half his collection and that would still be true If you want to say compare it Carnegie, remember that they charge $17.95 for an adult ticket, BH charges nothing

bikeygirl wrote:In BH defense: Regardless of the graffiti and what ebay-business the do, they DO have a very impressive collection of bikes. I’ve been there a couple of times, and enjoyed myself immensely every time getting lost among the rows upon rows of bikes, bike parts, and other collectibles. Also, the people I talked while there were pretty amenable. Sometimes when I’ve gone in long rides and find myself with no water, the BH is the only spot where to grab some shade, and get a cold drink or snack. So, from that point of view, I do-recommend checking the place. AND are also glad that BH’s large collection of bikes is in Pittsburgh. AND that they donate their money and bikes to BikePgh and other events. They just need to tune-up their image & marketing (don’t half-ass it)., be a responsible business/operation in ALL fronts; and don’t throw under-the-bus others when you can’t own up to your own shortcomings. And last but not least, THANK YOU for taking the graffiti off.

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thanks im trying my best and your right I could use some help on things,i try to do to much myself.

I rarely go down the Ohio River trail, but the last time I did, there were permanent metal signs at several intersections saying "Bicycle Heaven this way -->" ... have those been removed?

My earnest and sincere thank you to bike heaven. I rode from the Valspar building to the casino and the trail graffiti was all cleaned up. I appreciate it. Thank you. I did see the four or five signs and i think they'Re great. Im trying to think what i can do in return, two things come to mind. When i get to a computer ill make a submission to google maps requesting they're shown as a POI. Two i'd like to ask, BH can you sponsor a trail section? Like AdoptAHighway? I think you'd get trail signage and lots of goodwill from that. Im done. Thank you.

Vannevar wrote:My earnest and sincere thank you to bike heaven. I rode from the Valspar building to the casino and the trail graffiti was all cleaned up. I appreciate it. Thank you. I did see the four or five signs and i think they’Re great. Im trying to think what i can do in return, two things come to mind. When i get to a computer ill make a submission to google maps requesting they’re shown as a POI. Two i’d like to ask, BH can you sponsor a trail section? Like AdoptAHighway? I think you’d get trail signage and lots of goodwill from that. Im done. Thank you. OK thanks the same,yes I would go for the sponsor trail ,send info when you can how to do that,the signs I put up a good while back but I may have to take them down.thank you

If our city can be plastered with corporate crap all over the place, what’s wrong with individuals or small businesses doing it? Again, what's the problem? Local businesses do this all the time. No one complains (to my knowledge). Why is bicycling different? I mean, "Mature Singles" seems to be acceptable... Why get all puritanical about bike-related stuff? We just want it to be a part of normal life, right?

Ha! I forgot about those Ahlir! Yeah, how many signs have I seen for some kind of send-a-gram thing, singles of various types, people who buy houses of any condition, etc, etc, etc For once, something useful along my path of travel!

Just to be clear: I've ridden over the BH tags on the Penitentiary(?) Trail. I wasn't particularly happy to do so, but I was not personally offended. These days, cities are pretty much all tagged up; you get used to it. I should point out that, once you've reached the pen and are riding back along Beaver, the BH is pretty easy to spot. Someday I might actually stop; mostly I'm focused on desperately (laughably?) hammering my way up to the casino.

" If you don’t have a problem with graffiti, then there is simply no way we will see eye-to-eye on this." I have a slightly more nuanced position. I'm against graffiti on private property, and I prefer artistic stuff compared to spray painting tags/cliche things Now I'm more tolerable to tags in interesting or hard to get to areas or humerus tags, like Thor's black and gold thing by the Whole Foods bridge

Yes, I admit that there is a lot of grey/gray area...

I think Kennywood style signs would be fine if done professionally. Who knows what "BH" even means? Certainly not anyone who's never heard of it.

Beverly Hills? bh Bikes (bhbikes-us.com/)? Biglari Holdings, Inc.? BH Cosmetics (bhcosmetics.com)? BH - symbol for element bohrium (and who doesn't love them some bohrium?)? I loves me mah google machine.

Brighton Heights

There's bohrium in Brighton Heights?!?! Eureeka!!! Let's load up the wagons!! We're gonna be rich!!!!!!! I'm telling yinz, it'll be like we've died and gone to bicycle heaven!!

Like a California Avenue goldrush even!

I have not seen the museum. I have, however, been to the now-closed bicycle museum in Orchard Park NY, outside Buffalo a few years back (2006). That place was a true museum, but also went belly up because they couldn't pay the bills. So I'm willing to cut this guy some slack. I'm sure he has a good bit of overhead. But I do wish he'd knock it off with the all-caps text. It just looks unprofessional.

Things must be pretty good in this world if this forum is complaining on 2 pages about hardly visible tagging and caps lock. Rough.

Oh, FFS. This bullshit again? Most people don't find it that difficult to keep multiple concepts in their head at one time. Some of us are even capable of processing multiple opposing concepts. For example, I'm happy to accept that a bicycle museum is an awesome concept while being disturbed by the current proprietor's business practices and advertising methods, and still have plenty of time to be profoundly angry at the IOC's complicity in Russia's suppression of queer athlete's at this winter's Olympics and across the country in general.

Can we just move on from this already? How about them Steelers? :)

+1 for letting it die already. If you really think that spray painting an area that already looks like a concrete shitbox is graffiti, then either file a police report or STFU.