BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

This is getting out of hand!!!

that is unbelievable and completely awful. certainly hoping the cyclist will be ok but i have a sick feeling in my stomach.

According to coverage the two sites are only a few blocks apart!

This makes me sick. I am forcing myself to restrain from saying what I really feel. I so hope that whoever was riding makes it through this.

The facts aren't known; could be any number of things. Could be suicide by bike, could be vehicular manslaughter by the driver. Just don't know yet.

BUT

This is where the Public Safety Folks could win accolades for taking some initiative and taking traffic-calming action, or earn disdain for treating it as business-as-usual.

For instance: starting Wed night, sunset through sunrise, continual speed limit enforcement on the three-block stretch containing the two accident scenes.

Uniformed cops, radar guns, police cars, writing speeding tickets. The goal is to slow it down, let people see blinking police lights and tickets being written. Looking for the Hawthorne Effect if nothing else.

If they take the initiative, then knee-jerk rhetoricians like me won't be asking, How many tombstones does it take?

this is terrible.

This block is part Pittsburgh and part Wilkinsburg and it might make things easier as far as new legislation, investigations, etc if it happened in Pgh instead of wilkinsburg.

hope the rider ends up ok.

I hope the cyclist makes it.

This sucks. I'm really upset about this. I hope this person is OK.

Vannevar, I hear you on wanting the city to step up and do something about this stretch of road to raise awareness about safety in light of the recent accidents. I'm going to contact the city now. I think the 311 web form is the easiest way to do this? Not sure if there is a better way....

That whole section of Penn Avenue is terrible -- two lanes, but everyone treats it like it's four lanes.

It's just going to get worse with the periodic closures of the Squirrel Hill tunnel, as drivers detour through Wilkinsburg.

+1 to take traffic calming steps there.

so awful. i can't express it.

the article didn't give any indication that this was a hit and run, and so i hope that continues to be the case.

i'm really pulling for whoever it is, whatever the circumstances were.

@Rachel.... good thinking.

Let me know/the BBoard if you need more people supporting this....

This makes me sick to no-end

Lucia - Anyone can fill out a 311 form for just about anything infrastructure/safety-related.

I used to just fill the form out about potholes and things like that, but now I fill one out for all kinds of things. I'm not sure if it's the best way to call on the city to do something about driver behavior, but hopefully it helps.

Between Hay St. in Wilkinsburg and East End Ave. inbound on Penn, there are no proper markings denoting Penn as two lanes. PennDOT and whatever other state authority that can issue violations should be made aware of this. Wilkinsburg is responsible for maintenance up to Brushton Ave. according to this map, so 311 won't help on that side of Penn. Take it up the chain.

I was just passing by there, and there were a zillion cop cars. My very first thought was "Not again... no, I'm sure this is 'just' a car wreck." And then I saw a bike laying in the grass and freaked out. And then I thought the bike looked okay, and a car was being towed, and I figured, "Surely not again, maybe that bike was just there by coincidence..."

But I guess not. So, so awful. I hope the person ends up being okay.

Some kind of Jeep-esque thing was being towed. It looked like the front end was damaged, but it was dark, so we weren't sure.

Whoever is responsible for that section of road — the city, PennDOT, I don't care — needs to take this stuff seriously. That section of Penn already should have changed — we all knew it sucked — but there's no excuse for letting it continue to suck any longer.

Didn't expect to read this first thing in the morning. Very upsetting news

I just saw a teaser on the news for ths. I feel sick.

I have a maelstrom of thing swirling in my head, but I don't know what to say. Watching the news last night, and listening this morning - trucks blowing through houses, the parkway being closed down by an "accident", a beautiful young woman driving completely innocently being killed by a wheel flying off another vehicle. Cyclists being hit. People don't get it, are they hardened to all this news, or do they just not give a shit? People go on with what they "need" to do without thinking about the death and destruction around. People don't ask, do I really need to make this trip, or is there really any reason to hurry right now, have I had that noise checked lately, or do I really need to check my phone right now?

There is no government agency that can make the roads safe, no legislation or punishment that can make cars or drivers safe. Only individual actions can change this barrage of death and destruction. We have this stupid mythology of individualism, "I have to make my own way at any cost", when in reality we are all tied together in a web, everything I do affects someone else, and everything others do affects me, so I need to think carefully and pay attention to everything I do.

Last night as I was headed home, I came out of the gas station parking lot by Station Square on to the short section of 1st street then on to McKean to the section that is the official part of the South Side trail. Some moron in a piece of crap Mitsubishi 4 door sedan came flying off of Carson on to 1st at about twice a safe speed, for no apparent reason. Carson was not backed up, traffic was not heavy, this scrawny chicken necked POS just decided to go fast. I was never terribly close to being hit, by luck, but I screamed as loud as I could SLOW DOWN! The ahole elected not to stop and discuss traffic propriety at that time, but continued on his way. But with everything that's been happening, it's possible I would have taken a ulock to this idiots car and face, and worried about the consequences after.

I don't understand how people can rationalize using their car as a weapon. When we get on our bikes, we now have to operate under the assumption that nobody sees us as a human beings, and our lives are inconsequential to them.

sickening.

Penn Ave needs to be fixed but also drivers need to slow down *everywhere*. 50 mph + is too fast for these narrow city streets yet that seems to be the norm all over town.

Police need to start enforcing the speed limit.

The mayor's office is working with us on some short term things. Expect some speed limit enforcement, signage directing bicyclists to side streets like reynolds, thomas and hamilton. mayor's office is also working with us on safety info for radio, tv, newspapers. we're working on getting bike lanes on thomas and hamilton to entice more bikers to use these streets, but it will be weeks if not months before those are in.

i'd love to get a couple radar speed limit signs along this stretch as well which are proven to slow cars, but can't promise those yet.

This sad I hope the person pulls through.

Now for a nice note. On my morning commute I come down a big hill that has a 25 MPH speed limit. I regularly get passed by cars going way faster than that sometimes aggressively sometimes not. I always think to myself that its ridiculous that they are passing me because I know I'm going at least 25 MPH. This morning I could see the headlights of a car coming up from behind me and I held out my left hand and flashed two then five fingers. I was trying to get across the fact that the speed limit is 25 MPH. The car actually did not pass me which was nice.

Thank you Scott. Speeding and aggressive driving need enforced there. I even avoid it in my car it's so bad. That stretch as quizbot mentions is not two lanes, it's one giant lane and people get frustrated and make bad decisions.

Police DO need to enforce speed limits throughout the city. It is ridiculous out there even driving in a car. They need to have a couple of month period where they enforce speed limits and write a few thousand tickets for the attitude adjustment that is sorely needed. Who can I call and complain to? There needs to be a massive call for people to stop being in such a rush and start obeying the law! This is the worst year I have ever ridden my bike around the city as far as wild speeding goes. A huge attitude adjustment via MANY fines will do the trick.

Vigilante parking curb placement...

On a less negative note, from the towing comment it looks like the driver stopped this time.

One way to bypass a lot of this is to take Reynolds into Frick, hop onto the trail which empties onto a road you can cross braddock on, then get over to rebecca ave and ride through wilkinsburg.

The driver ran into a utility pole, so yeah I guess the SUV driver stopped.

^+1

Unreal. I hope the cyclist recovers ok.

This is beyond tragic.

I hope the cyclist comes through.

My thoughts and prayers go out to him/her for a speedy and complete recovery.

It seems as simple as new paint and some candlesticks.. No repaving or construction.. But I know in reality it is not just as simple as new paint candlesticks on wide roads.

Scott: (and maybe orionz06 if I got that correctly), there may be a low-cost, easily implementable, immediate / short-term response.

If one of the structural design issues is that it's a one-lane street that in some places goes two-lane, encouraging bad driving between the bottlenecks, then removing the temptation to bad behavior along the accident corridor seems prudent.

Take the three-block corridor that contains the accidents, add one block on each side for a five-block stretch.

Along those five blocks, put out wooden saw-horses and make Penn one-lane in each direction. They've got a warehouse full of sawhorses. Not high-tech, but tried-and-true, paid for, on hand.

It would be efficient to let the right lane be available for right-turning cars within 100' of intersections.

The political statement is, "A terrible week and a disturbing trend. We're taking immediate short-term action to ensure safety while we review options. We don't expect all these measures to remain in place. While our review is underway, we ask everybody to be mindful on the road and avoid unecessary distractions. Too many funerals and accidents."

When they stop hitting bicyclists, they can have their lanes back.

IANAM (I am not a militant) but I really don't think the answer is putting up signs telling bicyclists to use other streets; it's philosophically wrong and it'll set the baseline for all future Pgh discussions about bike-road access. Apartheid anybody?

radar guns

Not in this commonwealth.

CMU Police regularly gives out VASCAR-ed tickets on Forbes Ave. Rest of the cops don't care.

For some dumb reason only state cops can use radar guns in PA. (Allegedly a constitutional issue, according to an instructor I once had at CCAC's paralegal program.) On the other hand, Penn is a state road for most of its length--and certainly from Wilkinsburg to East Liberty, which is a signed state highway--so I wonder if the two towns could ask the state police to come in with their radar guns?

ETA:

IANAM (I am not a militant) but I really don't think the answer is putting up signs telling bicyclists to use other streets; it's philosophically wrong and it'll set the baseline for all future Pgh discussions about bike-road access. Apartheid anybody?

Yes, yes, yes. The solution is not to give cyclists some mythical alternate and/or separated route that will somehow be safer and leave Penn and Carson and wherever else to the big boys in their big-boy cars, it's to make everybody slow the fuck down and pay attention to the world around them.

so I wonder if the two towns could ask the state police to come in with their radar guns?

I wonder if the towns even have to. What happens if state residents call the state police and directly request enforcement of speed limits on a state road?

(I have not yet done this, although it's been rolling around in my head since last night...I don't wish to step on Bike-PGH's toes in their ongoing work with the mayor's office.)

Oh, and I completely agree with Vannevar re: putting up signs telling cyclists to use a different route. That's just more ammo to be used by the people who say "bicycles shouldn't be on Penn...it's their fault if they get hit."

I'm considering staying off of Penn in this stretch on either my bike OR my car for a while. Distracted speeders aren't safe for anybody.

I agree with James. I don't think cyclists should be "barred" from using Penn, but I think I'll be staying clear for a while.

It is mind blowing to me the things that

cars in Pittsburgh do without any repercussions.

- regularly doubling of speed limits. This

is supposed to be enough to lose a license.

It happens everyday by 50% of cars on

bigelow. I have literally been passed by

cars on liberty and friendship for drivng

too slow (probably around speed limit)

- Passing of cars/buses on other side of

yellow.

- Creating 4th lanes (butler at 39/40)

agree on speed limit enforcement plus texting ban enforcement and 4' passing law enforcement.

The laws are in place to make cycling safe but they are meaningless unless enforced.

It's not going to change until the road is changed. I am not sure an alternate route would have helped the rider last night since he may have been riding TO the alternate route.

The more I think about it, the more I don't like putting up signs telling bicyclists to move to another street.

Here's a few questions that flow from that possible path:

1. Say I ride on Penn in spite of the signs - helmet, high-viz clothes, one front blinkue and two rear blinkies, an orange triangle on my rear rack. I get run over from behind. Was I negligent because I ignored your signs? Do my survivors suffer? Does my life insurance not pay out?

2. Say I follow the sign's advice and ride on parallel Acme St. In August, there are two bike accidents on Acme Street. Will we use the same logic and put up signs on Acme urging bicyclists to move over to Baker Street? (not to get all Socratic, but if the logic was valid in the first instance it would be valid in the second instance; if the response is flawed in the second instance, it's probably flawed in the first instance)

3. Let's recognize that there's nothing intrinsically attractive or safe about Hamilton etc. Lots of parked cars, lots of doors, lots of the same drivers that act poorly on Penn. There's no safety basis for saying, Hamilton is a safe bicycle street - it's just something different, anything different than Penn.

4 Is it the role of a bicycle advocacy organization to support public policy that makes a street off-limits to bikes in the name of political comity?

Bicycle apartheid is no solution. It encourages vehicular bullies.

Re; routing cyclists to mythical alternate safe route - refer to the last paragraph of my last post 25 or so back - the idiot driver in that case was travelling FROM the main motor vehicle route TO the mythical safe alternate bike route.

Totally on board with Vannevar, and B-B: Bicycle apartheid is no solution. It encourages vehicular bullies.

I don't know about that. They do that very thing in Santa Cruz and I don't think anyone would claim that Santa Cruz is a hostile place to ride a bike.

Yeah, let's think of alternate signage:

CYCLISTS SHOULD TAKE THE LANE FOR SAFETY

MOTORISTS MUST FOLLOW 4-FOOT PASSING LAW

I submitted my 311 form on the subject. I know the City is already on it, but I wanted to be on record as having asked for corrective actions for this corridor.

Sawhorses in the curb lanes are a bad idea; where do you bike if the sawhorses obstruct the curb lane?

mpm - you're right of course, sorry for my lousy image skillz. The idea is that there'll be room between the saw-horse and the curb. The intent is to turn the right lane into a defacto bike lane with a hard barrier.

FYI: This just went out from the Mayor's Office moments ago:

MAYOR ENCOURAGES DRIVERS TO AND BICYCLISTS TO BE EXTRA CAUTIOUS IN LIGHT OF RECENT TRAGEDIES

Sent 08/01/2012 @ 11:01 am

(PITTSBURGH) Aug. 1, 2012 In light of the recent bicycle tragedies in the City of Pittsburgh, and the forthcoming two-week long bicycle celebration - BikeFest, Mayor Luke Ravenstahl and BikePGH today reminded drivers and bicyclists to be lawful, cautious and respectful of one another.

“Pittsburgh has come a long way in the last five years when it comes to improving bicycle safety and infrastructure, and providing a flourishing urban environment,” Ravenstahl said. “Our City’s pedestrian and bicycle friendliness are key components to residents’ quality of life and help us grow our City’s population. More than ever, residents and visitors seek walkable neighborhoods and bicycle access to enjoy the City’s cultural opportunities, recreation amenities or merely to get to work, school or the grocery store. As the City encourages walking and biking, we remind everyone that safety not only for yourself, but for your fellow street users, is paramount.”

In recent months there have been several serious crashes involving drivers hitting bicyclists and pedestrians resulting in severe injuries to the bike riders and walkers, and one (a hit and run) resulting in cutting the life short of James Price.

“Hit and runs will not be tolerated on Pittsburgh’s streets,” said Mayor Luke Ravenstahl. “Our neighborhood camera system is up and running throughout our City, and our police officers are ever more on the lookout for the safety of cyclists and pedestrians. As a driver, you never want to be put in a position where you have tragically injured a bicyclist or pedestrian, so drive safe and be cautious.”

State law declares that bicyclists have equal access to our streets unless otherwise signed, and that motorists must give bicyclists at least 4 feet when passing. Due to population density, the City of Pittsburgh, unlike its adjacent suburban and rural areas, experiences a high percentage of cyclists and pedestrians. As a result, motorists must be extra vigilant and careful. Staying alert and driving safely is vital to saving lives.

“Although everyone must share space on our streets, much more responsibility rests on the shoulders of people driving cars, which have far greater ability to hurt and kill. Slow down, and treat bicyclists and pedestrians with care and respect,” says Scott Bricker, executive director of Bike Pittsburgh. They could be your friend, family member, doctor, minister or anyone.”

Starting August 5th, drivers will be seeing even more bicyclists on the streets due to PedalPGH and over 80 other bicycling events during BikePGH’s annual BikeFest celebration. The events are "shared road" type of events, which means that motorists should be hyper-aware of many more bicyclists on the streets. Drivers should also be aware that they will encounter more group rides than usual. Please be patient and pass only when it is safe to do so.

Following the recent bicycle accidents on Penn Avenue, the City is working with BikePGH and PennDOT to improve the safety of Penn Ave. In the short term, the City and BikePGH will be creating an alternate bike route. The route will take cyclists off of Penn Avenue inbound and direct them to Braddock Avenue onto Mead Street. The City will be installing shared road signs, directional signs and on-street markings within the month.

Safety tips for cyclists and motorists can be found at bike-pgh.org/resources/share-the-road/.

The more I think about it, the more I don't like putting up signs telling bicyclists to move to another street.

If it's bad to have signs indicating which roads are safer for bikes, why isn't it bad for Bike Pgh to publish a map saying the same thing? Shouldn't this knowledge be readily available to all cyclists at the moment they could use it?

Bicycle apartheid is also the idea behind separate paths just for bikes. If we have a Jail Trail, then some motorists can and do criticize cyclists who take Fifth to get downtown. Should we shut down such paths to help us keep our right to ride on Fifth?

Seems to me we should encourage cyclists to choose the safest route, not just with maps for those in the know but with signs. And we should also insist that any cyclist can ride wherever the law says he can ride, and work to make the unsafe streets safer, and do a better job enforcing speed limits right now since the infrastructure will take a long time to change.

Cyclists live on most every street, so every street should be made as safe as possible for cyclists. But some will always be safer than others, and we should acknowledge that with signs, not just maps.

+1 on the Mayor's Press Release....

I also dislike the idea of putting up signs directing cyclists away from Penn, for many reasons. I sincerely doubt the two victims or anyone else that rides on Penn were unaware there are other roads in the vicinity.

Any word on the cyclist's condition?

@steven Well, the difference is that Pedal Pittsburgh's map is aimed at cyclists and advises them where the best routes are -- and I don't think it marks routes as too dangerous to ride. The signs advise everyone cyclists and motorists, that cyclists shouldn't be there -- or they can be interpreted that way.

It seems with so many recent pedestrian and bike accidents (most of them hit-and-run, at least one fatal) plus with Pedal Pittsburgh, Bike Fest, and the 4th round of MovePGH workshops, that this is all coming to a head. Maybe it is time for direct action to demand an immediate solution to an urgent problem. Whatever the long-term infrastructure solution might be, lowering the speed limit on 5th and Penn, and increasing enforcement are things we need the city to do now.

We were really excited when the city was planning the way finding system but now we are against it? There will always be better routes for riding and pointing them out to novice users who probably don't study Google maps for the best routes is a good idea IMO.

With regards to Penn...is there any recent, concrete data that one can point to regarding the incidence of driving significantly over the speed limit?

I think there'd be a lot of value in having verifiable numbers that say "one in every 200 cars is traveling twice the speed limit in this block, four in every 10 is traveling at least 15 mph over the limit, etc.", when one is trying to justify traffic calming measures.

If such data does not exist, how can we collect it?

@rsprake I agree that we should point out the best routes to novice users. But road signs are not necessarily the best way to go about it. They are essentially permanent and are easily misinterpreted by drivers. You end up marking some roads as off-limits to cyclists.

This press release is a good bit of communication workmanship and as such it gives background and rationale, mentions common values and shared goals, appeals to various interests, and raises consciousness without offending.

As in any such piece, there's rhetoric/foreplay and then there's action items, and the action items are what's really going to happen. The rest is speech, persuasive words and fog; yada yada yada.

The only short-term action item in this communique is taking the cyclists off the road, and the Mayor's message presents BikePgh as a full partner in that.

In the short term, the City and BikePGH will be creating an alternate bike route. The route will take cyclists off of Penn Avenue inbound and direct them to Braddock Avenue onto Mead Street. (emphasis added)

I have nothing but respect for BikePgh - the Board, the Executive Director, the leadership, and the staff - They work hard and long, they beat their heads against walls, they endure many things, and they do very, very well in an honorable cause. They do more good than I do.

Generally nobody agrees monolithically with any organization, and if you agree with a church or platform 85% of the time it's a good fit. Often, good people disagree.

On the issue of supporting taking bikes off the street, I believe BikePGH has made a strategic mistake and set an unfortunate precedent. If the detour becomes temporary and bikes are soon supported on Penn, good; if the detour/ signage/ no-bikes become permanent, ungood.

I remain a happy BikePgh supporter/ member. My shibboleth for the week is: Bicycle apartheid encourages vehicular bullying.

"We were really excited when the city was planning the way finding system but now we are against it?"

The wayfinder system is a street sign saying that if you want to get from point A to point B, this is the best way to go. A lot of factors go into it including shortest distance, less hills and, yes, safety, but it is primarily informational in nature.

A sign that would direct you away from any particular route is a restriction on movement. It is in the nature of a warning or a prohibition. Do not enter. No left turn. No pedestrian crossing. No trucks over 4 tons gross weight.

These sorts of things are entirely different from a sign saying Bike Route or This Way to Station Square.

We were really excited when the city was planning the way finding system but now we are against it? There will always be better routes for riding and pointing them out to novice users who probably don't study Google maps for the best routes is a good idea IMO.

I completely agree. But since this is coming off as a knee jerk reaction to the crashes, implying that this is the "fix" for the problem, I can understand peoples responses. If it was part of a wholistic approach to the whole city, i doubt there'd be grumbling

I also dislike the idea of putting up signs directing cyclists away from Penn, for many reasons. I sincerely doubt the two victims or anyone else that rides on Penn were unaware there are other roads in the vicinity.

when i started riding, i worked at the food coop and would ride fifth to penn every day because i had no clue how the back streets connected, or that i could even take back streets there. it took me a long time to figure that out

I think the issue with putting up signs is their intent and interpretation from both cyclist and motorist. As a cyclist I would like to know that a safer route exists a block over, but I worry that motorist will then say you should be using the other street like the sign says. I have lost count of how many times I have had motorist yell at me on Carson Street down by Becks Run that I should be “on the trail over there”. Or cars honking at you on Beechwood because you choose not to ride in the door zone, re bike lane.

^ or, for example motorists shouting "Share the #!@%^& road". Yeah, those signs work well.

I am assuming that they aren't removing the "share the road" signs from Penn and banning bikes. The trouble with the alternate routes is that you eventually come to Fifth Ave, and what do you do then?

I asked one dude who works at Google and lives in my neighborhood why he doesn't take Thomas or Reynolds and he said Penn is the fastest route. He didn't care about the alternates.

I like the sawhorses idea, preceded by a good street sweeping. My only worry is that if a car was parked in the curb lane, that immediately pushes the cyclist into the main driving lane.

Mechanically reduce the width of the road for cars while still allowing a lane for cyclists.

I think a lot of motorists will interpret the "alternate route" in such a way that they'll think cyclists HAVE to take that route.

"I think a lot of motorists will interpret the "alternate route" in such a way that they'll think cyclists HAVE to take that route"

^yup, reporters too

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/pittsburgh-to-bicyclists-avoid-penn-avenue-in-point-breeze-647090/

@RubberFactory, @Marko82 - look at it from the other (low-nuance, sound bite, election-year) perspective. Maybe the reporter got the designed message.

The Mayor just announced that Luke and BikePgh are taking the bikes off Penn. Problem Solved. Go Steelers.

I think telling people of alternate routes is the best short-term solution. We need to think about everyone who might be riding a bike in that area - not just those who are fit and fearless enough to mix in with car traffic on Penn. Yes, we have a right to be there, but telling that to someone who can't do more than 10mph or who is just plain scared isn't going to help them successfully navigate that stretch of road.

Ticketing for speeding would be awesome, and would help at least for a little while, as it did on Braddock through Regent Square after the couple of pedestrian deaths that happened a few years ago.

Unfortunate reporting, but that's what you get when someone has to boil down a story in two minutes.

Im torn on this idea. I do believe in having alternate routes, but I also know that signage to that effect will only make it look like we are saying bikes don't belong on Penn. (lets face it perception is reality)

I don't ride this stretch much (if at all)so I don't know what it is like there. I do think that one of the problems is that we are reaching a tipping point of riders where are more riders out there but not so many as to become accepted. we are still the minority and a small enough minority that we aren't taken seriously on the road.

Im not a militant either (well not much of one) but I would love to see some protests (peaceful) over this.

Cyclists stopping at intersections in groups and holding up traffic for a green light or two then riding on.

I know that this isn't the proper response but i believe that something like this is the right response.

I take it back. another cyclist hit in swissvale (see other thread) Im all for protests!

That's not what the mayor urged us to do and the headline is purposefully inflammatory and lazy.

First, I hope the cyclist who crashed is recovering. Does anyone know who it was?

Second, I don't see a long-term solution to Penn Avenue other than strict enforcement of the speed limit and a full-on bike lane, perhaps with candlesticks to keep cars out of it. I biked to work along it a few times. I immediately saw that, in my view, the safest thing I could do was to go as fast as possible and draft off of as many SUVs and commercial vehicles as possible, at 30+ MPH, so I did. That's a really screwed up thing to have to do to feel safe!

Also, as Edmonds said, those "share the road" signs are pretty unremarkable. I can't imagine how much red tape it would take but I'd like to see them replaced with the signs in Lower Burrell, of all places, which say "Bicycles Have Equal Privileges." The old ones can be melted down and hopefully made into bike frames, or put up in the middle of nowhere.

@rsprake - if I may, don't attribute negative intent. The headline is accurate.

WTF. Another one:

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/08/01/bicyclist-hit-by-truck-in-swissvale/

That's not what the mayor urged us to do and the headline is purposefully inflammatory and lazy.

when i saw the headline i thought it was hilarious, another example of pg trolling luke. then i read the article. that really is the only takeaway they got from the mayor's release. we're lucky they included the quote from scott.

Vannevar, the press release mentions the alternate route in addition to working with PennDOT in one paragraph out of SEVEN.

I think StefB has also been trying to do this, but I want to join the linguistic crusade against the term "accident."

I asked one dude who works at Google and lives in my neighborhood why he doesn't take Thomas or Reynolds and he said Penn is the fastest route. He didn't care about the alternates.

I am glad to know about the alternate routes, but I tend to take more direct routes if I'm not feeling tired or otherwise encumbered. I love Reynolds Street as much as anyone, but unless the cut-through behind the Shady Side Academy fields is improved, I will avoid it in many situations when I would have to go well out of my way. Penn Avenue clearly has its limitations, but so do all of the alternates, in that they require a major detour and/or navigating Braddock Avenue other than at a traffic light.

This is just ridiculous.

I'm glad to hear that the city has promised to take action regarding Penn Ave. Major props to the BikePGH staff for everything they do to help us out.

I work on the corner of Braddock and Meade and commute in from Lawrenceveille. I fully endorse and encourage the Meade-Thomas-Hamilton connection to get to East Lib and beyond. Not gonna lie, I've had my fair share of close calls and honks, but it's so much better than Penn, especially at rush hour.

@rsprake, now imagine the press release boiled down to a road sign.

If the road sign is well worded, e.g. "Alternate Bike Route-->", I doubt it'll cause any problems of consequence.

My fear is that you'll get signs saying "Cyclists Go This Way-->", which has a very different implication.

Officials urge caution after bicyclist hit by car on Penn Avenue for 2nd time in week —WPXI

From the linked article:

According to police, a woman lost control of her SUV about 10 p.m. Tuesday on Penn Avenue and hit a man on a bike.

and

Authorities haven’t said if the driver of the SUV will face charges.

The fundamental problem, clearly illustrated in two sentences.

I suppose the steering wheel could have come off in her hands. Short of that...

Dude, I am being f***ing cautious already!

Maybe I'm just in a bad mood because of these events but until the Mayor actually steps up and does something to FIX the problem his press release doesnt mean shit. Telling cyclists to take this street not that does not to fix the actual problem at hand, only slaps a band-aid on it.

I'm so fed up with the shit I deal with on a daily basis because of the method I choose to get to work or the fact that I obey the laws. It doesn't matter whether I'm on my motorcycle, in my truck or on my bicycle, some asshole is always there to be as disrespectful as humanly possible.

P-G: Pittsburgh to bicyclists: Avoid Penn Avenue in Point Breeze

Ugh. I absolutely hate this headline, as well as this line: "Pittsburgh has no legal authority to restrict bicycle traffic on Penn, a state-owned roadway."

Yeah, I avoid Penn Ave in Point Breeze already because it totally sucks and I don't mind taking Meade/Thomas and other less efficient (and sometimes questionably legal) detours like the cut-through behind the LifeCare hospital (a good way to get between Trenton and Meade). But I shouldn't have to.

The way this is being presented is going to solidly convince a subset of drivers that cyclists really are not supposed to be on Penn and have no rights there. Clearly too many already believe that. This is only making things worse.

if anyone at the P-G reads this, please redo your article and actually read the press release. I thought I was reading the Trib.

Everyone, the goal is to advise bicyclists who may not know that there are good alternative routes to Penn. The city will be striping bike lanes on Thomas and Hamilton (sharrows too) to entice more bicyclists to use these streets. I told the Post Gazette and the Trib, bicyclists have the full right to use Penn Ave and drivers should watch out for bicyclists there. The solution to Penn Ave is more mid-long term. We are NOT taking away anyone's right to use the street. The Share the Road signs are NOT coming down. The City is going to work on speed limit enforcement there according to our contacts and are open to putting up radar speed limit signs that tell drivers their speed in combination with a speed limit sign.

Our goal is not to take away people's rights to ride, we're just trying to inform people of better routes to take to save lives while we work on a mid-long term solution to making Penn actually safer with PennDOT. Again, the City only has immediate power to affect change on the streets it actually owns.

If you like Penn keep riding Penn. Hopefully cars will start getting pulled over soon for speeding on it.

Maybe they can nab the guy in the swissvale accident with the new license plate cameras if he went toward regent square?

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/08/01/bicyclist-hit-by-truck-in-swissvale/

Yeah, Scott, I totally get what you guys are doing. I just hate the way the P-G reported that. It assigns all the responsibility to the cyclist and (to me) could imply that the cyclists who have been killed and injured on Penn shouldn't have been there in the first place. The WPXI article does a much better job of presenting the appropriate message.

@Scott, that all sounds good -- I especially like the radar speed limit sign -- that might actually have an effect.

The solution is not to give cyclists some mythical alternate and/or separated route that will somehow be safer

I would settle for alternative route if, for example, stretch of Penn is for cars and Reynolds is for bicycles only.

But, again, there's no connection from Braddock to Reynolds--the only through street between Penn and the Parkway is Forbes. Meanwhile, there are few parallel roads north of Penn east of Braddock due to the Busway, hospital, etc.

Are we really going to tell cyclists they have to zigzag across half the east end and avoid this one road because people can't be bothered to obey the law?

and are open to putting up radar speed limit signs that tell drivers their speed in combination with a speed limit sign.

We have a couple of these where I live in Ohio now and they work to slow people down. They start to flash as your speed gets more than 5 mph above the limit. You can see cars braking as they get near the sign.

There is one that that I want to mention though that is stationed before a hill that has curve and a hidden driveway on the other side. It shows your speed but if you get more than 5 mph above the limit it shows your speed and then it flashes "SLOW DOWN." It works well. You might want to ask about having that feature.

there's a couple on the ramps from SB 28 to 279 and 579 that just flash slow down like you describe--not sure how well they work exactly, but i've never heard of anyone driving off the new ramps ...

Argh. The P-G website really likes to delete my comments. (I had ignored the comments on all the other articles this week, but I let myself get caught up in it on this article about avoiding Penn... bleh.) Either they have a really finicky filter, or they know I should be doing my real-life work instead of trying to talk sense into a few awful victim-blamers on the Internet.

Why do online papers even have a comments section? Do we really need to know what every uneducated asshole hiding behind a computer has to say?

^+1

Unfortunate reporting, but that's what you get when someone has to boil down a story in two minutes.

A different reporter at the PG also quoted the Mayor's press release, and summarized it as "Mayor Luke Ravenstahl issued a statement today urging drivers to be more aware of bicyclists." That would have made a fine headline (but maybe he needed an extra minute).

"Pittsburgh to bicyclists: Avoid Penn Avenue in Point Breeze."

I wonder what the general reaction would be if, following news of another shooting, the Post Gazette had the headline: "Pittsburgh to Pedestrians: Avoid Homewood"?

I suspect it would be even more inflammatory than the reactions we are seeing here when cyclists are the marginalized minority. At least, in the eyes of the PG.

@pearmask - i see plenty of comments by you. i think the comments software just gets wonky and things disappear or don't show up from time to time. either that, or the comment you replied to was deleted by its author. that happened to me earlier, as i seemed to shame someone into taking their post down.

@Kordite another way of interpreting that headline is as implicit criticism by the PG of the city of Pittsburgh. They could be implying the city should be doing something to fix the problem rather than just warning cyclists away from a dangerous area.

HV, yeah, it showed up again later. I think there's just some glitch that causes them to disappear, and then they reappear later. I was being impatient because I was all worked up about people's stupid comments. The moral of the story is that I should really just ignore the comment sections. Stefb is right.

"They could be implying the city should be doing something to fix the problem rather than just warning cyclists away from a dangerous area."

Do you read the same Post-Gazette that I do?

@jonawebb - that was how i interpreted until i read the article. it seemed clear that they meant it as though this is what the statement truly said.

I'm waiting for the headline "Pittsburgh to motorists - quit killing people."

My knee-jerk reaction to alternate route signing is of course contrarian: I like alternate routes, but I don't want that information to be screamed at me as drivers force me off the road.

This is what happens when you have a decades old policy at PADOT that all improvements must move the maximum number of cars at the maximum speed possible. When PADOT makes complete streets and safety a higher priority than moving cars quickly, we will see far fewer of these stories. If it's a state road, state cops can go set up radar traps and issue state tickets, which are harder to fight in court (the cops will actually show up to defend them).

It's beyond time to enforce the laws we have, and use the information we all know to get ALL streets to be safe for ALL users. Not just the side streets that motorists ALSO use to avoid traffic (ever try to drive down Meade at rush hour? yeah, so is everybody else, and they're there because they're already pissed off.)

@reddan: That's a solid idea about taking a speed census of a road from time to time, as cyclists/pedestrians report it as dangerous. Since there is apparently a prohibition on police using radar within city limits, I wonder if civilians (say, a Bike Pittsburgh volunteer) can use a radar gun to log the speeds of cars traveling down Penn Avenue?

Along the same lines as taking a census of how many bicycles vs. cars use a given road, it'd be useful information to know how many cars are speeding on a given road. And the best outlet for this information would be the media rather than the authorities. Actually, maybe some news media could investigate this? Calling the I-team...

@mpm, I think KDKA has done the radar gun thing in the past. I'll try to find it using the goggle machine...

@stefb Do we really need to know what every uneducated asshole hiding behind a computer has to say?

They have put themselves on record as being ignorant, some of them willfully so. That being public record, if any of them mow down a cyclist in the future, we can show at trial that they believe this way.

KDKA is reporting that the 2nd crash victim has died.

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/08/01/bicyclist-injured-in-point-breeze-crash/

"It's beyond time to enforce the laws we have, and use the information we all know to get ALL streets to be safe for ALL users."

I believe this sums things up very well. It's not just cyclists that are targets of aggressive drivers. Have you ever tried to drive AT the posted speed limit? I'm not just talking about Penn Ave either. I've attempted to drive at the speed limit for years and I can tell you that it's extremely stressful and at times difficult to safely do so. Drivers constantly tailgate, pass unlawfully and make the standard rude gestures. It's quite scary at times. I'm afraid that on a bicycle we're just so much more vulnerable. Road Rage takes on a whole new meaning when you're the target of it and you have nothing around you for protection. Asking for enforcement of the speed limit laws, cell phone use (as well as other distracted driving), tailgating and aggressive driving would change the culture much more effectively than asking for or demanding better conditions for cycling. There probably is no need to change any laws, but a huge need to enforce the ones we have in place. All those "Targeted Enforcement Area" signs are very pretty, but I have yet to witness a single vehicle pulled over in one of them. Maybe the signs help to some degree, but visual proof of enforcement would go a long way to getting better compliance. Sure - concentrate the effort on Penn Ave right now, but start enforcing traffic regulations region-wide please. I'd bet I witness on average at least three cars running red lights every time I'm out. Bring on the cameras.

so sad.

Yes, my husband and I drive the speed limit in the city, and we also get shit from everyone. I have mentioned this once before, but one of the most dangerous things a person did was this: I was coming down one wild place, and as I approached the cross walk for employees, I slowed and stopped because someone was crossing. Some asshole teenagers who were already annoyed that I wasnt speeding down the hill tried to gun it around me when I was stopped for the pedestrian. Luckily the pedestrian was unharmed.

Sad that that second cyclists died. I really don't know what to say about all these idiot drivers. Everyone in a rush and being so selfish.

The only way people will slow down if police make it a priority. They need to do this NOW! I can't get over how aggressive drivers are in Pittsburgh these days. Believe me, it wasn't always like this here. There was a time Pittsburgh drivers were actually nice to one and other. They were never nice to bicycles, but at least they weren't rushing dangerously to each stop sign. We need to get the police to do something about this speeding.

Is there any interest in doing some sort of demonstration at a major intersection in Point Breeze? Penn & Braddock or Fifth & Penn? It wouldn't be sanctioned by BikePgh, understandably. I don't know what exactly. I fantasized about taking over an intersection, but that seems unsafe, and would probably lead to arrests.

I have thought long and hard about taking over intersections all over town. One green lights time. Ride away. Meet at different intersection repeat. Video everything

Sorry posting from phone. Double post

Someday, some people may think it's time for that sort of "propaganda of the deed". IMHO I don't think we're anywhere close to that yet. YOMV.

It's hard to be effective and not just cathartic. And it's real hard not to be a bungee-cord activist, ready to jump into another neighborhood and suggest my pet solutions without listening to the locals. And finally, you know what Hippocrates said.

I have no doubt that we have smart good people wrestling with this. We should give them some room.

If some sort of peaceful action is called for, it'll be just as evident in a few weeks. If drivers keep killing bicyclists, and no action is taken, and no charges are filed, and then somebody wants to have traffic-calming group rides to call attention to hazardous roads, I get that too.

I'm Katy Frey, President of the Greater Park Place Neighborhood Association. Our neighborhood spans the area between Frick Park and Wilkinsburg, along South Braddock Avenue. I can tell you that we have long been lobbying for enforcement of speed on South Braddock - for everyone's safety...pedestrians, cyclists and drivers. I live just off the corner at Penn and Braddock and witness traffic accidents and near misses on a regular basis.

I'm wondering what, if any, connection there is to the recent traffic rerouting from the Squirrel Hill Tunnel construction. Are more drivers who are unfamiliar with the quirks of Penn and Braddock coming through this area?

Vannevar - your advice to work WITH a neighborhood and not just jumping into it without knowledge of the situation is a good one, but I think if the cycling community reached out to the neighborhood associations - of which there are many along this stretch - you would find allies.

@Katy: Thanks for posting here and reaching out to us!

Some comments:

1) @reddan et al: before you contemplate complex traffic surveys and such, I invite you to simply drive down Penn between 5th and Braddock (either direction) at the speed limit. Observe what other cars do. Report if you notice any problems.

2) Installing signage telling bikers to move off to a different street is offensive. We have equal rights to the road. The only consequence will be that the next killer will claim that "It's not my fault! The bicyclist(s) weren't supposed to be there. That's what that sign is for!".

3) I travel through that part of Pittsburgh on a semi-regular basis and have done so for years. I have yet to see any active traffic enforcement. Is there some particular reason that the laws are not being enforced in that area?

4) There are plenty of effective traffic calming techniques available. Why has the {city, state, etc} failed to install any? What am I paying taxes for?

5) I'm all for a bit of street action. It's all well and good that our various worthy representatives (government and community) are pledging to take action as soon as practical. But maybe some indication that the community indeed feels deeply about this issue might help all of us focus more clearly on these problems. Nothing complicated, maybe a nice group ride from Forbes and Braddock to Penn and 5th? And nothing disruptive of course, just making legal use of the roadway.

National Night Out is on Tuesday August 7, 7pm to 9pm. Communities across Pittsburgh are holding events...I think some group rides around the city would be awesome. If people decide to ride around the Braddock and Penn corridor, be sure to stop by the 100 block of South Braddock. I'm hosting an ice cream social for my block.

We've been focusing our event more around combatting the armed robberies and drug trafficking in our neighborhood, but certainly James Price's case falls under criminal act, and I know my neighbors are concerned and outraged.

Here's a website for NNO. Also the department in the mayor's office that is coordinating events locally.

http://www.nationaltownwatch.org/nno/about.html

http://www.pittsburghpa.gov/publicsafety/nno/

Penn Dot has jurisdiction over that stretch of road, and Penn Dot doesn't give a shit about your neighborhood, or your community groups, or the bike community, or your contacts. They just want to move the motor traffic through. They're sitting out in their isolated suburban fortress in Bridgeville (45 Thoms Run Road, Bridgeville, PA 15017, Telephone: (412) 429-5000 to be exact) You want to take some effective action? Get a large enough group of citizens and a news crew and go sit in their lobby until somebody answers some questions about what will be done about traffic calming and enforcement. Doing something on Penn Avenue will motivate Penn Dot not one iota.

The brown stuff is gonna hit the spinny thing after the bus cuts hit in a month. Penguins game traffic *every day*.

This is not OK

+1 edmonds.

Hence my comment re: actual data. None of us doubt that the driving on Penn tends to be, uh, less than law-abiding...but the plural of anecdote is not data, and personal impressions cannot be thrown down on a Penn-DOT desk, or given to investigative reporters, to effect anywhere near as great as hard numbers.

The people who need to be convinced aren't here, and, in most cases, probably don't go anywhere near Penn.

Flock group is discussing our monthly ride heading out that way, but that won't be until the third Friday of the month.

The only consequence will be that the next killer will claim that "It's not my fault! The bicyclist(s) weren't supposed to be there.".

Don't the stupider drivers say this sort of thing already? Before there was bike infrastructure, they thought bikes belonged only in parks. Build a bike path or bike lane and they complain whenever a bike isn't on one. Add a sign saying there's a road with lower speed limits and a bike lane two blocks over that way, and they'll use that as further evidence. But they'll be wrong in every case.

I agree that signage (or any bike infrastructure) helps enable the stupid drivers who say things like this, but in my view it's better to have good bike infrastructure (including wayfarer signs), and deal with any resulting extra stupidity as best we can, with education and publicity.

+1 about the data, though it's disheartening that we'd need more hard numbers than "dead people = 2" to convince PennDOT to take action.

Also, if anyone decided to go visit Penn Dot District 11 seeking answers, I guaaaaaraaaanteeee you'll find police enforcement there. To prevent unarmed citizens from attempting to hold anyone there in any way accountable.

Wouldn't it be cool if a group of cyclists heading down Penn Avenue from Fifth, and another group heading up Penn Avenue from Swissvale, left at the same time, rode across both lanes (observing the speed limit, of course) and happened to meet at the corner of Penn and Braddock? And then went to an ice cream social in the 100 block of South Braddock on Tuesday evening?

From what I have seen PennDOT is also about two other things besides moving traffic:

1. Safety (whatever that means)

2. Covering their ass so they don't get sued, which happens to them all the time over anything and everything.

Now here they have a problem -- they have two cyclists dead in a week on this stretch of road, the cycling and the neighborhood communities up in arms about the lack of safety, and a myriad of people who are able to tell them of close calls.

Now they have a known (to them) dangerous condition, and it is foreseeable that additional incidents will happen in the future. They have just met the two biggest conditions for tort liability. And they know that they will get their fucking asses sued to the moon and back the next time something happens if they don't address it starting right now.

The political theater of rides, demonstrations, etc. is fine. It has its place in this to keep everyone's attention 9ncluding PennDot's focused on this.

But even more important, is that someone needs to sit down with PennDOT and show them exactly how to fix this with ideas like Stu and others mentioned earlier -- traffic calming, single auto lanes, bike lanes, median dividers, whatever -- so that the end result will be safer for everyone who uses this stretch whether with feet, bicycles or cars.

I bet they listen. Their only other choice is to spend a lot of time and money in court defending themselves.

Scott, BikePGH and the city have all been around long enough to know this. So if this is their thinking, I say let 'em have at it. But that will take time. Meanwhile, if I am right, the proposed signage, etc. is a stopgap measure that gives some evidence to help avoid liability till something more permanent can be worked out.

Penn Dot thinking is this: Pedestrians and bicycles are not part of the transportation fabric. Penn Dot purvue is motor vehicle traffic. Safety means keeping the roads a safe as possible for motor vehicle traffic. Pedestrians and bicycles are hazards to motor vehicle traffic. Safety is made by keeping pedestrians and bicycles as far away from motor vehicle traffic as possible. Penn Dot does not care where they go as long as it is not in our jurisdiction.

If it is left to Penn Dot to decide what to with this situation, peds and bikes will be pushed who knows where.

It's my perception that Penn Dot even holds the motor vehicle operators they are supposed to serve with disdain, i.e. "we've designed and built this beautiful and efficient highway system, why do these idiots keep crashing and complaining?"

Penn Dot needs to be TOLD that peds and bikes are part of the transportation system and must be integrated into it.

PennDOT is under the directive of Gov Corbett right?

In order for its direction to change, there has to be a push from the Governor's office. Heat from the state legislature would probably help.

I'd encourage those interested in change to spend as much resources talking with legislatorsthe Governor's office as they do on these forums and contributing to BikePGH. I.E. if you make $20 an hour and donate $100 to BikePGH, I'd also encourage you to also spend five hours talking with legislators.

If you want Pittsburgh to be more safe for all parties involved, I'd encourage you to spend time talking to your councilmen/women and the relevant city offices/the mayor's office

Those people don't read those forums, but I'm sure they're connected to people whose entire careers are dedicated to improving the safety of roads for cyclists/peds/drivers.

We don't need to reinvent the wheel here, we need to have solutions implemented in reality and we need to push our legislators to make that happen

That is just awful news about the cyclist, Anthony Green. Sincere condolences to his friends and family.

The circumstances of the crash as reported in that article are absolutely infuriating, especially combined with the earlier story about how police aren't sure whether to charge the driver.

I really think that we should push for regular drivers license retesting. Maybe every 5 years? It would be more revenue for the DOT, and in theory, it might help eliminate drivers who forget how to drive.

I'm a robotics grad student at CMU so I follow a lot of the autonomous vehicle progress. I can't wait to get humans away from the wheel. I try to be safe while driving, but there are certainly times that I get sleepy or distracted. I've decided to sell my car because I just don't use it enough anymore. Good riddance.

I had a bit of a scary/infuriating experience riding on West Liberty today when I got buzzed by a driver. I have a mirror on my sunglasses so I can see what is going on behind me. Almost everybody changed lanes and gave me space, but a few weren't so nice. One guy in particular saw me and sped up ( I was watching in my mirror ), gave me about a foot and then looked in his rear view as he passed. I really would like to see people like that lose their license. Actually, I wish a lot worse...

I haven't gotten a mirror cause I don't want to see someone coming at me like this. I can tell anyway when someone changes lanes and passes me at the last minute just by the wind from the car and my peripheral vision.

I feel that the more experienced I get, I can read the drivers and anticipate aggressive driving. Of course, I would never be able to help being hit from behind, but I never ride at full speed in traffic. I don't fully trust any driver to not cut me off. Not everyoje does,either. There are certain drivers that I can tell are going to be aggressive, turn left in front of me, pull out in front of me, and I have been able to avoid crashes so far. I could just assert myself and not brake when I see that this is going to happen, but I don't feel like getting injured to prove a point.

@brybot - Welcome to the message board! I hear you, but JSYK, the state is moving in precisely the opposite direction in terms of licensing. The party that gained control in the 2010 election has a general disdain for regulation. While I don't want this discussion to devolve into mere politics, I do recommend you register to vote (go here to check your registration status), and then do the right thing on Nov 6.

EPR is reporting this morning that the driver in the Penn/Brushton incident was unlicensed...

Again the story made the front page, above the fold

Story link: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/two-bicyclists-killed-on-penn-ave-preface-bikefest-647242/

Sweet, can't wait for the comments... Any guesses as to what the first subject will be?

I'll bet, "cyclists don't have the same rights to the road because they don't pay road tax".

edit: damn, I forgot I have the facebook blocker on, the comments already started (for the better it seems).

As I read it, at least, the PG article is much more balanced than the version that appeared on the web yesterday. They make it clear that the issue is with the motorists not the cyclists. Fourth paragraph: "'Motorists need to remember that bicyclists are extremely vulnerable,' Steve Cowan, safety press officer for PennDOT District 11, said. 'They have as much right to the road as you do in your truck or your motorcycle.'"

Damn, props to Steve Cowan.

Ok, cynical pragmatist coming out here...

Money gets attention of people like the governor and PADOT. People with it, and businesses with it, to be specific (not, unfortunately, community groups and citizen deaths).

So what business associations are along that corridor? The Factory is there, is there a Wilkinsburg business association at all? Same with braddock... I know there's not much, but there's that private school on the hill, and there's a few businesses at the corner of Forbes and Braddock.

If we can get businesses to make our case for us, we won't have to fight the whole "why, yes, I both ride a bicycle AND have a job, thankyouverymuch" BS that goes along with the PADOT and Corbett mentality.

We don't have to get the idiots to listen to us, we probably can't anyway. We just have to get the people who they think elected them and are their friends to make our case for us.

safety press officer? I like his talk. I'm still looking for the walk.

Here are some of the groups that are active in that neighborhood. There are many other groups, but these are some of the ones I remember seeing at recent PCRG meetings.

Wilkinsburg

http://www.neighborsunitewilkinsburg.org

http://www.wilkinsburgcdc.org/

Regent Square

http://www.regentsquare-rsca.org/

Park Place

http://www.parkplaceblog.com/

Homewood

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Operation-Better-Block-Inc/114323008629

And I don't want to make light of the situation - it IS serious, and the residents are definitely concerned, but some of us have other fish to fry, if you know what I mean. Armed robberies, shootings, gang activity, vacant properties literally falling down on top of other people's houses...these are other things that make their way onto our agendas. Sometimes it's hard to decide where to focus your energy first. However, I do know this is a hot topic around these parts recently.

Believe me, PennDot is a total joke. They don't care about anything at all. For example, they did a tiny road patch on the beginning of the Highland Park Bridge and they must have had a little left over asphalt material left in the shovel. What did they do with it? Threw it on the sidewalk of course. Too lazy to throw it on the truck or at least in the weeds. Nope, on the sidewalk it went. I am going to throw it back on the street at some point. I maintain that dumb bridge's sidewalk, which is a pain in the butt as it is. I mean I bring a chainsaw out to cut back all the crap on the zoo side of that mess, so people can actually not have to dump out on the road and get killed by motorists going over 50 mph. PennDot is a big waste of money for taxpayers and they only care about their inflated wages.

http://greatergreaterwashington.org/post/15264/new-maryland-signs-emphasize-cyclists-right-to-the-road/

My sincere condolences to the friends and family of Anthony Green. This was a senseless tragedy. The news is reporting the driver did not have even had a valid drivers license. The people who drive on this section of road obviously have no concern for the safety of others. I’m not going to tempt fate so I’m staying away from it for now on.

I live a block away on Tuscarora Street from where both of these deaths occurred and I can't believe how insanely people drive on both Braddock and Penn -- it's not safe for anyone even pedestrians trying to cross the street. The speed limit is set at 35 but cars are routinely going 50 there and I've never seen anyone pulled over for speeding. Cars speed right up to the red light. There is a lot of pedestrian traffic right in front of Family Dollar and Walgreens. That area should have huge painted crosswalks with lots of signage warning motorists to slow down. The speed limit should be reduced to 25 all along the corridor from Rite Aid down to the Ever Green Cafe. I cross Braddock every morning on my bike and cars will speed up to the red light on Penn even when the light is red and even when there is a long line of cars stopped right in front of them. What if those two cyclists had been elderly pedestrians trying to cross the street to get to Walgreen's or Rite Aid? Would anyone be saying they didn't have the right to be using the road to get to where they needed to go? And what if one had been a child? What would it take to get some much needed action/enforcement? Aren't two deaths in the same spot enough to get the word out that it's a really dangerous location for anyone - motorists, joggers, pedestrians, cyclists.

After not having bike-commuted for a month due to illness and vacation, I rode today. I was paranoid as hell. I did not take the riskier routes; I avoided Penn entirely. But I keep telling myself now is the time when we need to be out there and visible.

Just passed by this area. Police are painting speed traps there right now. The question that I have, is are they going to use them?

Even if they don't, they do work to slow traffic some.

I crossed Penn (on foot) around noon when they were out painting. Boy let me tell you, some of those cars were not happy about having to stop and sit for 30 seconds. Honking, lane switching in a vain attempt to move forward 5 feet, it's just ridiculous.

Sometimes I wish it was acceptable behavior to carry rocks for the purpose of hurling them at cars that run intersections as the walk signals turn on.

Ooh...rocks. I'd like that for mouthy motorists.

Driver: "get off the road jagoff!!!"

Me: *pull rock out, wind up, send it into driver's face. Smile, wave, pedal away*

I should stop. That's not nice, nor is it something i would actually do but this recent string of "accidents" pisses me off. Their lives were cut way too short. A rock hardly seems significant in comparison.

I can see why people think cyclists are self entitled assholes.

That is completely unwarranted, even in jest. It's sad that we are collectively so powerless to stop people in cars from killing people that hitting them with rocks starts to seem like a good idea - and believe me I've had those thoughts and worse myself. Drivers like to play this "entitled asshole" card to distract attention from their own psychopathic behavior but it is a complete load of bullshit.

Completely unwarranted is absolutely right. I think that when we feel powerless and angry some of us will admit having thoughts like that but also instantly recognizing them as crazy.

Thoughts like that aren't crazy. They are a sign that you feel threatened. Revenge fantasies are the normal pressure valve for dealing with a situation where you are helpless or feel helpless to affect change.

If it wasnt for those pressure valves you would have bricks flying thru windshields and worse.