BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

haters gunna hate

to be a bit more constructive bashing his clothing and suggesting he drive a truck (i think a lot of bikers drive trucks... its practical for moving bikes and doing things bikes can't do... i don't know what your point is on that one) just makes you look like a bitter old man.

i pass bikers and pedestrians and cars within a couple feet all the time, although i use a bell, i don't feel like its that unreasonable... was this guy holding his line to the right of you the whole time and you cut into him without signaling? he might see it that way.

Whoa, 25-35mph up the hill by the Rainbow Kitchen? That _is_ impressive. Maybe if you are lucky and get the green light at full speed, but even so...

Even if he was holding his line to the right, It is illegal to pass on the right, bike or not. And to do so without any type of signal is kinda dumb too.

See, that's why I avoid going faster than the speed of sound on my bicycle. I bet he called out a polite "Oi, chap, passing on your right! Good Day!" but you didn't hear it because the sound went backwards in time.

@lyle - it was right at the place the road starts to climb about a block before the Rainbow Kitchen, but it was was impressive. The guy was athletic. After he lost his momentum from the downhill that he was still moving at maybe 25+ mph. Fast.

@mark - I considered going on about the guy's intellect and character, but tried to restrain myself. You're right, I didn't do all that well at it. It's still a temptation to go on about it. The guy risked my life to save himself maybe a second of time.

Yeah, I neither looked behind me nor signalled. Moving to the right from the edge of the parking lane to the middle of it? I just neglected it. The guy might consider that to be me not keeping my line, I suppose.

He neither looked nor signaled when he moved left when he reached parked cars farther up.

The guy reminded me a bit of a guy who posted here about drafting strangers on the jail trail. The JailTrail drafter was surprised at the idea that he might actually SAY something to the people he was drafting. He didn't see the point - if they are going at his speed, they know what drafting is.

In this case, there was plenty of room -two totally empty lanes- to my left. I'm guessing the guy would have had to break his althletic concentration to look behind himself to know that, though.

There may have been room for a bike to pass safely on the right, if he had hugged the curb. He didn't take that effort, though.

@ netviln I'm not sure if is illegal or not.

If it was, indeed, illegal, it was a "trifecta" - Unsafe, illegal, and obnoxious.

Lycra doesn't enhance packages, it just reveals them

I have a general rule of thumb that works, no matter what mode of transportation I am employing at the time: Do not pass someone when going more than 15 mph faster than they're going. If you're in a car on an expressway and they're only going 50, try to keep it to 65. If you're on a bike on a street and they're only going 10, try to keep it to 25. Sounds like this guy was over 15 over your speed, and the matter of passing on the right is merely an added irritation.

and often revealing the package does just the opposite of enhancing it

i really don't think passing on the right is illegal, if someone is riding in the center or left side of the lane that's what you do. i'm not saying this guy was in the right, he should have used a bell or said something, but if i saw someone going dramatically slower than me not keeping their line when there was lots of road to spare i would just pick the side with more room and go (ringing my bell of course).

i have spent the last 5 weeks riding with 5th and 6th graders on the trail and the biggest problem is people not holding their line and "switching lanes" without looking behind them... we can't control what anyone else does, but we can always protect ourselves by being aware of our surroundings at all times and being predictable.

Almost got into a head-to-head collision with a guy going east on Penn Avenue right before you get to Negley... he was riding on the sidewalk and then jumped off the curb to avoid a pedestrian and started riding the wrong way in traffic... terrifying.

@mark - "I really don't think passing on the right is illegal..."

Here's what the PA vehicle code says.

§ 3303. Overtaking vehicle on the left.

(a) General rule.--The following rules shall govern the overtaking and passing of vehicles proceeding in the same direction, subject to the limitations, exceptions and special rules stated in this chapter:

(1) The driver of a vehicle overtaking another vehicle proceeding in the same direction shall pass to the left of the other vehicle at a safe distance and shall stay to the left of the other vehicle until safely clear of the overtaken vehicle.

(2) Except when overtaking and passing on the right is permitted, the driver of an overtaken vehicle shall not increase the speed of the vehicle until completely passed by the overtaking vehicle and shall give way to the right in favor of the overtaking vehicle on suitable signal.

(b) Suitable signal defined.--Suitable signal for purposes of subsection (a)(2) shall be as follows:

(1) At all times when head lamps are required to be lighted according to section 4302 (relating to the period for requiring lighted lamps), an audible signal or the intermittent flashing of low and high beams except that the use of high beams shall not be permitted when a vehicle is approaching from the opposite direction within 500 feet.

(2) At all other times, an audible signal.

§ 3304. Overtaking vehicle on the right.

(a) General rule.--The driver of a vehicle may overtake and pass upon the right of another vehicle only under one of the following conditions:

(1) When the vehicle overtaken is making or about to

make a left turn, except that such movement shall not be made by driving off the berm or shoulder of the highway.

(2) Upon a roadway with unobstructed pavement of sufficient width for two or more lines of vehicles moving lawfully in the direction being traveled by the overtaken vehicle, except that such movement shall not be made by driving off the roadway. (b) Limitation.--No passing movement under this section

shall be made unless the movement can be made in safety.

Passing on the right is legal if there is room for "two or more lines of vehicles", according to the PA Code. Which is kind of meaningless since every lane has room for two or more motorcycles.

On the rare occasion I have a good reason to be on someone's right, I definitely do it slowly, and I tell them. Left side... varies.

I usually am wearing Lycra shorts though, Mick. Seems that the only people who care about the package enhancing/revealing aspects are other men, and I'm beyond caring what they think of my assets. Occasionally I see someone eying me, but eff that. I've put enough miles on in Pittsburgh that can wear whatever I want.

i like it when i don't have to look anything up.

Passing on the right is ok & to be expected on fast group rides, particularly downhills in turns. A close right hand pass on a commuter in traffic... not so much. I agree that dude should have used better judgment, but maybe he had to make a quick decision if you looked a little wobbly or indecisive.

That being said, moisture wicking fabrics on days like this are your friend.

Not to get off-topic, but since it was brought up earlier, what would be the proper etiquette for drafting a group, or person? Is a simple "mind if I tag along" sufficient?

yeah, that's fine. but always always ask if you're not on a group ride. or even if you're on a ride like Pgh Pedal.

I find there are awfully few opportuntities where it even makes sense to draft another cyclist, given the horrible road surfaces and frequent stop signs. Almost the only places that work in the city are the paved trails, and that's a really bad idea. Or maybe up the hill by the Rainbow Kitchen if you're lucky.

Yeah the behavior was cause of the spandex.

You people are worse than motorists who hate others

cause they are on bikes.

Lets start a hate group!!!

yeah drafting someone who doesn't know you are drafting is totally not cool. The other day I was doing longer intervals(20m long), I pass a guy, he starts drafting me but I don't realize it, I finish my interval, begin soft pedaling and he nearly runs into the back of me.

I really can't imagine matching speeds with someone and remaining in close enough physical proximity to effectively draft and not either 1) know them very well, or 2) speak to them in any way. That's just creepy.

Steevo, I rather like it when most cyclists wear spandex. But I also oggle the Calvin Klein billboards and football player's butts too. I don't think I'd like it if someone passed as described, spandex or not. But I agree - lets not vilify spandex. What would Olivia Newton John have done without it?

What would Olivia Newton John have done without it?

Jiggled. (More.)

twenty mile intervals!! Holy shit, you must be the guy that passed Mick at 35.

@Lyle: I suspect minutes, not miles. Otherwise, the feelings of inadequacy are too strong to bear...

It was Aaron S! Quick, everyone grab your pitchforks.

(disclaimer: I'm joking)

Stupidity transcends fashion.

All you haters suck my chamois.

I suspect that many of the skinny jeans that the helmet-less fauxhawk hipstahs are wearing also contain lycra, so maybe there is something to this?

Also, Olivia Newton John was many things. Jiggly was not one of them.

Oh. 20 MINUTE intervals. Well, that's better than 20 meter intervals. Anybody who tries to suck someone's wheel for 20 meters is beyond desperate.

i'm sorry but i have seen my fair share of lycra-clad chaps riding like complete idiots. i have seen about 5 near-miss right hooks and 4 of the people were lycra-ed and clipless-ed speed demons trying to pass traffic on the right through an intersection.

human nature and the way our brains work causes us to lump experiences together. i give spandex people plenty of room, always.

drafting on the streets? really? WHY?!

you would think that if you're training for that next big race, you'd want more resistance.

but what about the people who wear both? how will we know to kill them or not?!

kill 'em all, let Erok sort 'em out.

i'm pretty sure that a lot of the lycra hate is tied to discomfort with ones own sexuality and self-"man"-image. i don't really see or hear much of it coming from women and it seems like its ok to wear a jersey if you have baggy shorts on but not to wear bike shorts. that and almost every anti-lycra rant i hear mentions "packages" at some point.

"DONT SHOW ME YOUR WEEN!!!! I MIGHT LIKE IT!!!!!"

@mark: If they wear both, they're obviously at least spandex-sympathizers, and must pay the price.

Personally, I'm just glad that we're finally shedding our veneer of tolerance for our brethren and sistren. I really hated it when we were only condemning the actions of individuals; it's so much easier to condemn entire groups based on their choice of clothing. Or transport.

I think you should let the air out of their tires when they aren't looking. That will show them.

Sometimes I wear spandex under my normal shorts, so I'm not entirely sure what that makes me.

I also like to ride really fast down hills (one of the few benefits to having extra mass on a bike), although I try not to pass people on the right.

@BradQ: if you really want to show them, let the air out when they *are* looking. That's package.

sometimes, certain people should wear lycra/spandex MORE often, if only for my own personal visual enjoyment. Most people I've seen in lycra and on a bike probably fit into this category. To them: Please do not let the haters win. Rock it.

ALL the time, ALL people should try to avoid being adam's apples. Mean people, clad in any cloth at all (or butt nekkid), suck. Maybe people just notice the spandexed adam's apples because spandex is just that eye catching?

how about just loosening the rear wheel on their brakeless fixie so they go careening into traffic without helmets on.

Brad you don't have a black leader by any chance?

reverse snobbery is still snobbery.

Sometimes I wear spandex under my normal shorts, so I'm not entirely sure what that makes me.

Hard to tell. But I bet there's a web site for people just like you...

@ahlir - Rule 34 demands there is always a website for people like that

I could be mistaken, but I think that is the first invocation of Rule 34 on the board. Well done, sir, well done.

@Reddan,

I can't help it, im oldschool internet. Preweb/telenet/godwin's law.

...especially considering that we've discussed WNBR a few times. But really, who needs Rule 34 when we have the real thing?

I just hope nobody riding WNBR in Philly on Sept 5 endangers any other cyclist. That would hurt. (Trying to keep this on-topic, y'see...)

@dbacklover: Ah, right, back when tamper-proofing messages meant baking the clay tablet inside another clay tablet.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again:

Spandex is a privilege, not a right.