BikePGH Message Board Archive

fudge!!! :(

bikeygirl

2013-04-22 16:49:24

http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/04/22/8-year-old-hit-trapped-under-car/ not good

pratt

2013-04-22 16:54:10

< / 3 pratt wrote: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2013/04/22/8-year-old-hit-trapped-under-car/ not good

bikeygirl

2013-04-22 17:00:18

I hope they are both ok.

marko82

2013-04-22 17:26:55

I hope that isn't the father and son pair we known from Flock/other rides I'm pretty sure they travel around that area

sgtjonson

2013-04-22 18:13:07

That is shitty news, hope they are OK.

salty

2013-04-22 18:50:38

As an aside, what is it with KDKA comment sections? Maybe it's just me, but they seem to have the most consistently blatantly offensive commenters of any of the major media outlets in town...

epanastrophe

2013-04-22 19:15:29

Interesting: WTAE has it as the kid was riding with friends: http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/Child-hit-by-vehicle-while-riding-bicycle-in-Point-Breeze/-/10927008/19851036/-/sssh1vz/-/index.html Trib has it kid riding with parent & sibling: http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3891141-74/police-vehicle-campbell#axzz2RF0vyztp PG and WPXI are MIA...

epanastrophe

2013-04-22 19:21:19

Wow, I rode by that area just now, and saw police cars, one at Reynolds at Lexington and the other blocking off Reynolds by the circle. Hoping for the best...

ieverhart

2013-04-22 19:53:46

buffalo: looks like kdka deleted them but i saw them earlier - that was some truly disgusting stupid racist crap. "critical condition" per the Trib, and the fact there are still cops on the scene according to Ian gives me a bad feeling... hope I'm wrong and the kid is ok.

salty

2013-04-22 20:02:15

Bloody hell, that's right by the park. :( Cars should be at crawl speed along there.

joanne

2013-04-22 20:20:02

I'm getting a sense of malaise with the probable fact that with the warmer weather and more riders, the more of these stories we're going to see until next fall

sgtjonson

2013-04-22 20:36:13

I was walking by and saw it happen (from about 100 yards away in the park) but it looked to me like it was a dad and two kids. The kid was underneath the vehicle. Fire/Police came very quickly. I've been working on traffic safety with the neighborhood associations in Park Place and Regent Square. Seeing that today really scared me because I consider Reynolds to be one of the safer bike passages in the area and am on that all the time with my 3 year old in a trailer.

katyfrey

2013-04-22 20:48:25

Do we have a record of all crashes where a cyclist is seriously injured or killed by a motorist? If not what's preventing one from being put together? I hate to say this, but there are so many of these that I don't know how to invest myself in the cause at a personal level unless it really is someone I know. But organized data > disorganized data, that much I do know. Someone with more info on what's out there please share and/or if there are plans to improve things PM me and let me know if there's any way another programmer might help the cause.

byogman

2013-04-22 20:49:51

story is on cw news now. A cop interviewed said it was a parent and 2 children although they showed 3 bikes propped against a cop car with another one lying mangled in the street. helmet looks reasonably intact. they also said residents did CPR on the kid before paramedics arrived. not much else in the way of details.

salty

2013-04-22 21:06:32

In the article linked below, a neighbor (she's referred to as a neighbor in another article) had this to say: “People drive over here to avoid Penn Avenue,” Maryanne Loebig said. “To see another bicycle accident should give city planning people and residents pause to think about traveling through this neighborhood.” Translation: People on bikes shouldn't be traveling through this neighborhood. “It's so sad. Neither the driver nor the family expected this to happen. That poor woman. I want to go put my arms around her.” I think she's referring to the female driver. WTF? Seriously shocking. http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3891141-74/police-vehicle-campbell#ixzz2RFUlJYr0

rachel_ding

2013-04-22 21:22:07

Can we please get a straight story on who was involved, what happened, and how? Too many variants, not enough information, to draw any conclusions. This is a block beyond the Frick Art Museum, right? How do you even get to any speed along there?

stuinmccandless

2013-04-22 21:35:39

I won't speculate too much about what I think happened, since I was kind of far away, but there were a ton of people around. I'm glad nobody tried to interview me...I was so shaken up who knows what would have come out of my mouth. It was truly one of the most awful things I have ever witnessed.

katyfrey

2013-04-22 21:51:03

Stu, the "Parent and his 2 children" thing came straight out of the mouth of a cop on TV who appeared to be at the scene, so I think that's the most accurate information available. I saw 4 bikes in the video, but one could have been a passer-by or something. The driver (who they showed multiple times, "looking distraught") was a middle aged woman, the vehicle she was pacing around was a white Jeep SUV. I got the plate number but I thought the better of posting it.

salty

2013-04-22 21:59:44

Here is the video I saw: http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/video/8800166-8-year-old-hit-trapped-under-car/ Also, Rachel, that is messed up - "That poor woman"?

salty

2013-04-22 22:02:24

A friend of mine also witnessed this and said the driver was turning from Reynolds onto Lexington. My friend said it was a boy with his father and sister. The Post-Gazette story has N. Lexington, but it was S. Lexington. I rode by the scene at about 6:30 but didn't poke into it much (I detoured through the park since the road was closed). Since there's a sharrows bike route along that road I know Google Maps uses it a lot on the bike directions (at least between my house and lots of East End destinations). Rachel, I read the Trib article and given that they put that quote right after talk of Penn Avenue being dangerous for cyclists I interpreted it to mean that cars shouldn't be shortcutting and maybe city planning should do something about that. I know that Regent Square has made some streets one way to minimize that kind of traffic on the residential streets near S. Braddock.

erink

2013-04-22 22:11:51

I shouldn't speculate either. I will say that I am furious about the coverage of this story. They report that the driver "stayed at the scene" and "looked distraught" as if that has any bearing on her culpability or lack thereof. I believe they are pre-emptively excusing her, because they're imagining being in her shoes (rather than being in the shoes of the poor child who was hit).

joanne

2013-04-22 22:18:11

"they’re imagining being in her shoes (rather than being in the shoes of the poor child who was hit)." +1 +5.

epanastrophe

2013-04-22 22:22:35

This is about 2 blocks from Sterret Elementary.

pseudacris

2013-04-22 22:30:43

Nearly content-free WTAE video: http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/Boy-8-hit-by-SUV-while-riding-bicycle-with-family/-/10927008/19851036/-/format/rsss_2.0/-/ql8l7v/-/index.html I know it's hard to imagine, but just maybe the kid that got run over and his parents are more shaken up than the person who inflicted the injuries? [...] the incident shook up many who watched the aftermath. Perhaps none more shaken than the driver herself, visibly distraught outside her grey Jeep, and understandably upset on the sidewalk as she spoke to investigators about the young victim.

salty

2013-04-22 22:34:07

Oh, and I see the driver apparently admitted guilt - except, stupid me, I forgot, "I didn't see someone right in front of me in broad daylight" is a valid excuse, no wrongdoing implied. Police say he was riding his bike -- with a parent and a sibling also on their bikes in front of him -- but that the driver didn’t see the boy when turning from Reynolds onto South Lexington, pinning him under her SUV.

salty

2013-04-22 22:37:15

buffalo buffalo wrote:“they’re imagining being in her shoes (rather than being in the shoes of the poor child who was hit).” +1 +5.

+10000

bikeygirl

2013-04-22 22:42:09

Media empathy for the driver is a lot like media sympathy for the ~~men~~ rapists convicted in Stuebenville, their lives ruined, their potential squandered; they might have played in the NFL someday! The humanity. But they've got dramatic pictures of an emotional person, and they don't have any pictures of the victim, so it becomes a story about Driver Pathos instead of Driver Pathology. hmm.

vannever

2013-04-22 22:48:12

First of all, I've praying for the boy, his family, and yes, the driver. I don't see the media empathy for the driver, at least not what I've read. Pointing out that the driver was visibly upset and shaken is simply reporting the news, because she clearly was. At least she didn't drive away, like the other drivers last year. I don't see "pre-emptive excusing" or really any media slant--they stick a microphone in someone's face, who says "that poor woman" and we're ready to slam the media outlet? When I read the quote about drivers avoiding Penn Avenue, I interpreted it the same way as ErinK--the city needs to engineer the area to keep cars out. We don't know much of what happened. In my opinion, the media coverage is fair. Let's see what tomorrow brings, when we know more...

ajbooth

2013-04-22 23:11:24

The police better get the driver's cell phone, text, and email records for that time, at a minimum. Horrible story.

chinston

2013-04-22 23:29:52

The police better get the driver’s cell phone, text, and email records for that time, at a minimum. +1

mick

2013-04-22 23:39:49

@ajbooth Other media outlets got more varied quotes than the Trib article did - I'm too tired right now to go through it all. And yes, I'm definitely fine with criticizing a media outlet that quotes "that poor woman" in reference to a driver who hit a little boy, especially when the story is more about the driver than the boy. The media reports tons of people were there at the scene - there were a lot of people they could have quoted. There are a lot of ways that article could have been written, and the Trib chose to go for the "sympathizing with the driver" slant - very insensitive. It will probably be re-published differently tomorrow anyway, so we'll see.

rachel_ding

2013-04-23 00:35:58

I am just trying to figure out how anything could occur at a T intersection with one side having a stop sign and one other being a dead-end street.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-23 01:46:07

It was my son. He was riding towards the Homewood cemetery to do some safe hill repeats. Single file, three riders, together, helmets and long finger gloves. A driver missed my husband and daughter,his twin sister, and hit him full on with a LEFT hand turn onto Lexington. Good job Bike PGH, but this is far from a bike friendly city. My husband and I commute. I have been hit twice at the Reynolds Roundabout.

furchtbar

2013-04-23 05:20:01

Actually, I feel for the driver, shit happens, but don't label her as probably most distraught of all. My husband and daughter heard it, saw it. My husband dragged his near lifeless body from beneath the SUV (single driver). Who is distraught?

furchtbar

2013-04-23 05:23:22

I'm so sorry furchtbar, I so hope your son recovers. I saw the 11:00 report, the news coverage of this is sickening. I'm shaking right now with anger. Bullshit on the "poor distraught woman". Sorry but I don't feel shit for the driver, that she wasn't actually in handcuffs is not acceptable to me. If a person can't operate a motor vehicle in broad daylight on a dry sunny day on a residential street with a speed limit of 25 without hitting someone, they should be disallowed the privilege of operating a vehicle. Pure incompetence. This driver should face charges and lose her license and vehicle permanently. Some people die in a random terrorist act and people are ready to accept government surveillance and modification of our justice system in a futile reaction, and yet 30,000 to 40,000 people die every year as a direct result of vehicle crashes, and society writes it off as "shit happens". And bullshit on the term "accident" as well, it's overwhelmingly driver error. Sickening. Edit: just looking at google maps - if she was going down Reynolds and making a left on S. Lexington, 5:00pm+-, unless she lives in the neighborhood, it's almost a lock she was using it as a shortcut past Penn. Miserable POS. I wonder if investigators will take that into account.

edmonds59

2013-04-23 05:41:08

@furchtbar, I am sorry, and I pray that your son is going to be OK. Thank you for checking in.

ajbooth

2013-04-23 06:19:46

Furchtbar, my prayers go out to you and your family, and for your son to fully recover from this atrocity. I won't call this an accident or a tragedy, because for what you describe, if that woman driver had been driving with all do-caution and observance of all traffic laws and safety, this would not have happened. I don't know what else to say, except that I know that I, and as I know other fellow cyclist on this thread and community, are with you and your family if you need us. While I know the the stupid-ass woman driver probably never in a million years meant to do this, it is clearly she is at fault, and if it had been me I would have taken her to jail for negligent driving. And f'k the local media for once again their reporting is bias and insensitive -it is!!!! I'm so tired of it!!! This makes me sick.....

bikeygirl

2013-04-23 06:42:04

@furchtbar, My heart goes out to you and your family. I feel so so sad for what has happened and I hope that your son recovers fully, and that your daughter & husband recover as well. Be strong. While the bike community here is very eager to find out what happened, please limit the info you post on the internet until you speak with a lawyer. And if you havent done so already, please get in touch with the leaders of bike-pgh since unfortunately they have experience with car/bike collisions and are good people.

marko82

2013-04-23 07:04:42

So sorry for you and your family, furchtbar. You are in my thoughts. Totally ridiculous and callous (and highly revealing) of the reporter to suggest the driver could be most distraught.

chinston

2013-04-23 07:09:23

My heart goes out to you too, @furchtbar. I hope your son recovers fully from this. I agree with what @Marko82 said about contacting BikePGH and being careful with posting info.

rachel_ding

2013-04-23 07:10:03

furchtbar, my thoughts Have been with you and your family all night. I cant imagine what you guys must be going thru. Hoping for a speedy recovery of your son. Im an admin on here and work for bikepgh. If there is anything that we can help with please dont hesitate to contact us. Just a quick note of caution, be careful posting too many details of the crash as you may be embroiled in some legal stuff coming up. My thoughts are with you and youll find a ton of support on here

erok

2013-04-23 07:10:45

That neighborhood has to rank as one of the most bicycle-friendly neighborhoods in the city. Signs everywhere, wide lanes, lots of stop signs, etc. And on a group ride... what was wrong with the driver? How can you not be extra careful around a family on bikes?

jonawebb

2013-04-23 07:43:35

Horrible news. Hope he recovers. Any word on how he is doing? I want to hate that SUV driver, but she at least stopped. I just don't understand how THREE cyclists are riding together right in front of the park and she actually passes two of them and hits the third? I am sick. This happens so often it seems. Sometimes I really want to give up. So sorry to hear this. Hoping for a fast recovery of the boy.

gg

2013-04-23 07:59:46

My heart goes out to you too, @furchtbar. Hope for full recovery. Ditto Marko82.

mikhail

2013-04-23 08:04:30

My son (almost 14) bikes and skates all over the city. He is a very safe/conscientious rider. This story terrifies me. BikePgh and other riders, please make this as public as possible. A family, riding safely, on back roads, single file,and a CHILD is STRUCK by someone NOT PAYING ATTENTION. Period. @furchtbar - my sincere condolences.

sarah_q

2013-04-23 08:12:25

@furchtbar, I can't even imagine what your family has gone through in the past hours. I hope your son makes a full and speedy recovery. Thank you for the update, please keep us posted as circumstances allow.

ericf

2013-04-23 08:20:05

Now that I have cleared my mind a bit with a ride into work, 100% what others have said, i.e.; don't discuss details on here. Also this is probably not foremost on your mind right now, but retain an attorney immediately and pursue the utmost action possible. You will find that the law will not inherently be on your side now. Don't feel any pity for this driver either. She took responsibility for her actions by putting the key in the ignition, and with every other decision she made that day. The sum of all of those decisions resulted in this incident, this is not an "accident". Actions need to have consequences.

edmonds59

2013-04-23 08:21:32

Well put, edmonds. furtchbar, I'm so sorry (and angry) this happened and hope your son makes a full recovery. If there is anything I can do please ask, I'm sure there is no shortage of people here willing to help.

salty

2013-04-23 08:31:40

I am so so sorry @furchtbar. I hope your little boy recovers fully and quickly, and the police and city take action on this.

joanne

2013-04-23 08:31:44

I hope your son recovers @furchtbar, my heart is broken for you and your family. This shouldn't have happened. @katyfrey, thank your for your advocacy. Reynolds is a pretty good candidate for a green boulevard. Those using it as a shortcut should be diverted back to Penn. In case anyone doesn't know the intersection, this is it.

rsprake

2013-04-23 08:37:56

First and foremost, my thoughts and prayers go out to Furchtbar and family. I am very sorry for your pain and anguish. I hope that their son and brother is soon on his way to a complete and speedy recovery. I am curious about one thing, however. When I checked to police log for yesterday, there was no mention of this incident. Clearly this met the threshold of a "reportable crime" in that a cyclist was removed from the scene (presumably by ambulance). So why no mention of it in Zone 4 logs? Unless, it was misreported. There was an event logged at about the same time (3:30) a couple blocks away (Penn at South Braddock) that is coded in the same way that a bike accident is often coded. Either way, it makes it hard to track traffic incidents involving cyclists with any degree of certainty.

swalfoort

2013-04-23 08:43:33

@Sprake - Thanks for posting that photo. Hard to imagine a more "bike friendly" street infrastruture for a kid learning to ride a bike. Looks a lot like the streets that I grew up riding on. I didn't realize then how lucky I was.

swalfoort

2013-04-23 08:45:34

@furchtbar, sending our family's thoughts and prayers for the quick recovery of your son and for peace on your family.

ka_jun

2013-04-23 08:54:30

@Furchtbar my thoughts and prayers for your son and your family. For you son and his quick and full recovery; and for your husband and daughter who had to witness this; and for you. Strength and healing to you all.

sarapgh2

2013-04-23 09:04:01

My thoughts as well to the family and wishing the victim a speedy recovery! I am also distressed by the "That poor woman" quote in the Trib article. Likely this is simple reporter bias (hopefully someone stated they felt concern for the victim, but I am horrified there is so little concern noted in the article!), but this bias nevertheless is indicative of the current climate regarding cycling in the city. Similarly, this video closes with a woman quoted as saying "This was not intentional, I'm sure, on either side"—wait. What?! I doubt the victim rode his bicycle into an SUV to harm the lady driver. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BJxltIpa-E The city has made leaps and bounds to promoting cycling infrastructure and cyclist safety. Hopefully this continues (and increases) and includes victim advocacy as well. The climate needs to change. Obviously, all people should be able to bike for fun and commute safely on all roadways. But at the very least children should be able to ride bikes with their families on marked streets and be safe!

lizzimac

2013-04-23 10:35:40

The more I think about this, the more upset and angry I get.... this event in unexcusable: If a driver is driving with all due-diligence, riding to the speed limit, practicing caution, and attention; events like this could be avoided. If drivers gave the 4' space as required by law in the State, this could have been avoided. How can someone not be careful, or not see a family of 3 riding bikes in a residential neighborhood? I'm sorry, but no sympathy for this driver. If you can't drive, if you can't handle your car, or pay attention, stay off the streets.

bikeygirl

2013-04-23 11:02:57

Just to repeat what others have said... I'm so sick of this *@%#. I feel for the woman driving, but again, the accident is a direct result of carelessness and possibly aggressiveness. While I feel for her, she gets no sympathy from me and the news-report is BS to even mention it that way. After all the sympathy that I need to dish out for the affected family, I simply have nothing left for the driver. Why are there so many idiots with a license to drive? I've had so many close calls both on a bike and behind the wheel... there are so many careless people out there who should also be carless. Given, it's a cultural problem in which everyone is in a rush and believes it OK to cut corners. It's not. But... whatever. None of that matters at the moment. I just hope their son pulls through this.

headloss

2013-04-23 11:03:40

Fore those not on Facebook, there is a ride of support for the family being organized for today. Let's try to get as many people as possible. https://www.facebook.com/events/365652246888077/ ----------------- Last night a tragic event occurred for a boy and his family riding their bicycles on Reynolds in our neighborhood of Point Breeze. ( http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3891141-74/campbell-police-riding#axzz2RITfETp7 ) We're meeting to show our support for the family and bike riding in Pittsburgh, and will be riding our bikes around the neighborhood with our kids. We'll be meeting at Lexington and Reynolds in Point Breeze at 5:00, and will ride as a group through the neighborhood. Hope to see you there.

bikeygirl

2013-04-23 11:17:23

Some may find this useful. From an attorney. The "I didn't see him" defense; http://bicycling.com/blogs/roadrights/2012/01/18/the-%E2%80%9Cignorance-is-bliss%E2%80%9D-defense/

edmonds59

2013-04-23 11:20:23

May I suggest that 5 pm is pretty early for a ride like this, for someone hopes to get there after work? I know this one is already scheduled, but heads up for future rides -- and there will be, unfortunately. 6:30 or 7 would be much better, and it's still light.

jonawebb

2013-04-23 11:25:55

jonawebb wrote:May I suggest that 5 pm is pretty early for a ride like this, for someone hopes to get there after work? I know this one is already scheduled, but heads up for future rides — and there will be, unfortunately. 6:30 or 7 would be much better, and it’s still light.

I'm just the messenger and are not related to the organization of this.

bikeygirl

2013-04-23 11:29:58

jonawebb wrote:May I suggest that 5 pm is pretty early for a ride like this, for someone hopes to get there after work? I know this one is already scheduled, but heads up for future rides — and there will be, unfortunately. 6:30 or 7 would be much better, and it’s still light.

I'm not the organizer, either, but I suspect that for families with small children, 5pm fits perfectly between school and dinner. (Unfortunately, I probably won't be there, either, for the same reason.)

epanastrophe

2013-04-23 11:58:21

yeah, i have client meetings until at least 6 tonight. hopefully we can organize something else as a community in addition to this ride.

cburch

2013-04-23 12:05:54

But 5 pm is perfect for families with young kids. :) FYI: I have a 3 month old who is too young to put on a bike, so I'll be on foot with him, while my husband rides with our 3 year old, in case any other mamas or papas with babies want to join me there. I walk that route regularly with my kids and I can see the exact same thing happening to a pedestrian at that intersection.

katyfrey

2013-04-23 12:14:18

This is a perfect example of a time to write a letter to the editor to the Trib. here is the info: http://triblive.com/opinion/sendaletter/

erok

2013-04-23 12:31:30

http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/8-year-old-boy-in-critical-condition-after-being-hit-on-bicycle-684576/

jonawebb

2013-04-23 12:44:59

A point I made in a parallel conversation on Facebook, but needs repeated here: Why was the driver driving? Never mind attentiveness, blame, whatever. The simple fact that she was behind the wheel at all is a fundamental issue here. Had that driver not been there, there would not have been a car there to run over the kid. Transit. Cycling. Telephone. Telecommuting. Feet. Carpooling. Not-having-to-go-pick-someone-else-up-because-that-other-person-can-bike-or-bus. ALL of those reasons, if put to better use, would greatly reduce the quantity of cars and congestion and very likely speed, thus making the streets safer for everyone. Solve that problem. So, where was she going, whether in a hurry or not? I less care about her personal life, and more care about why a car was necessary to accomplish that.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-23 13:45:42

erok: Good thinking. I usually remember these things and it seriously didn't cross my mind. I'll be sure to send an email.

Also Urban Velo published this article not too long ago concerning cyclists 'coming out of nowhere.' My response to that defense is a sentiment my good friend, a physicist, made to me today, "Bikes, like any other solid object in the universe, lack the ability to 'come out of nowhere.'" I suppose what is most concerning to me about this whole incident (outside of the injured boy, which is number one), is the lack of awareness. I mean, the incident occurred on a commonly traveled route, in a neighborhood with share-the-road signs, on a street with sharrows, during the day, with several people on bikes, by a park. Anyone driving in that road should be on the lookout for cyclists, not surprised to see one, and surely not not seeing one.

lizzimac

2013-04-23 13:51:37

@stu, good points, but what really sucks about this is not that she was driving, but that she decided to avoid heavy rush hour traffic on Penn by driving on a side street, heavily used by cyclists and clearly marked that way. Her time was just too valuable to wait in traffic, so now an 8 year old is in critical condition.

jonawebb

2013-04-23 14:04:54

Recall that on the Philly Naked Bike Ride, the message I had painted on my back was "CAN U C ME NOW?" I'll spare you the picture. One exists. NSFW.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-23 14:07:33

Remember to note in your correspondence with local leaders and election candidates that this road was the preferred alternative to Penn Avenue.

sloaps

2013-04-23 14:11:48

Reminds me... OT, but one of the amazing things I saw on CtC (well before I started hallucinating) was a man stripped to the waist, with a tattooed Confederate flag covering his back. Full red background, blue bars, everything. Must have taken weeks to do.

jonawebb

2013-04-23 14:12:16

I kinda like this...

ajbooth

2013-04-23 14:38:54

More details. Sounds like Iain is going to be ok.

rsprake

2013-04-23 14:39:37

What a relief. Thanks, @rsprake. Edit, I posted before reading the link. It says he's going to survive. Let's keep hoping for a full recovery, which is very possible for someone so young, who has a lot of growing left to do.

jonawebb

2013-04-23 14:45:59

True.

rsprake

2013-04-23 14:50:55

Elated to hear that he appears to be okay. The last quote in the article was incredibly powerful, especially coming from someone who recently moved here. "There are a lot of friendly riders in Pittsburgh, Ms. Engle said. 'But the city is not a friendly place to ride,' she said. We have an awful lot of work to do in order to amend this torn between drivers and cyclists. I have faith in the individuals who work and participate in this organization that we can make quotes like this a thing of the past.

that_tickles

2013-04-23 15:08:59

I hope Iain pulls through. That is such a quiet street and is pretty much in the park. It can be a frightening experience riding from Regent Square to the East Liberty Target even. Cars driving down the bike lane on E. Liberty Blvd, parts of the Penn ave detour, crossing Penn from Braddock, trying to make a left turn off Braddock with cars speeding behind me, even crossing the street as a pedestrian with my dog at Biddle and Braddock is a joke itself. Flashing lights and "stop in the name of the law" signs don't do shit for the first 10 cars that ignore you, some most likely going 10mph over the speed limit. The point is, even a bike lane and a specific yellow painted pedestrian crossing sign clearly marked with lights doesn't stop a motorist from doing wrong. The cops need to be out ticketing more and I really think speed bumps could help but, won't resolve all problems. This blog post also does it for me. I never understood why 3-4 cars can park on such a busy road in the first place. Usually it's one or two cars. Stop this disruption of traffic and it might also help with the side streets. http://pghroads.tumblr.com/post/45184334555/important-voters-can-park-in-the-road. If they did that, I would forget about my thoughts of having a bike lane on Penn from Braddock Ave to the busway where everyone treats the single lane as two lanes because it will just be another section of road of people not knowing how to merge and driving down the bike lane anyways.

flys564

2013-04-23 15:46:01

Someone mentioned on twitter that there's some sort of citywide public safety meeting tonight. (ed.--info here: http://apps.pittsburghpa.gov/mayor/Citywide_PS_Mtg_April_2013_(1).pdf *---630pm at EL Presbyterian, Penn & Highland). Hopefully someone can bring this up. if this isn't "public safety" and "keep[ing] our youth safe", well.... * ETA: apparently mb doesn't like parentheses in urls. This might work: http://t.co/N6oOHnUV2V

epanastrophe

2013-04-23 15:50:59

Nice turnout at the ride tonight. Thanks to everyone for taking time to come out, especially those of you from distant neighborhoods!

katyfrey

2013-04-23 19:56:13

@ Furchtbar, We were all very sorry to hear what had happened. I hope your son makes a rapid and complete recovery. Thanks for following up with us.

mick

2013-04-23 20:12:28

Glad to hear that it sounds like he is going to pull through. To expand on stu's Point, it is sad that american has such a car culture. As discussed before, in European cities cyclists seem to be treated well, and the larger vehicle is always at fault in a collision. If only we could have this here. If only someone drivers who hurt pedestrians and cyclists would get more than a slap on the wrist..

stefb

2013-04-23 20:40:44

Did anyone stick around long enough to see Bill Peduto? He stopped to talk to Scott Bricker (Exec Dir of Bike-Pgh for those who don't know) and me for a few minutes. One of the points he made was that this is one of the least likely places this sort of thing was likely to happen. There are sharrows. There is a "share the road" sign every five telephone poles. It's posted 25. It's along a park. Why here? This was supposed to be one of the safe streets.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-23 21:15:29

^ It's not this street that is unsafe, it's this driver. A good driver on a poorly designed street is probably safer than a bad driver on a well designed street. See "cars hitting buildings" thread for evidence. According to the article referenced above, she yielded to the father and sister, then turned into the boy not seeing him. Really? Stand at that intersection and tell me how you would not see someone if in fact you were looking.

marko82

2013-04-23 21:33:42

See if she hadn't yielded aggressively and had been driving defensively none of this would have happened. This is why you wait for the intersection to fully clear before you proceed when yielding.

cburch

2013-04-23 21:55:33

It's hard to know what happened. Inattentive driving? 8 year-old suddenly weaving wildly? Anything could happen. This isn't the place to judge. It is critical that the police check for phone activity, though. IMO, that is where the "Did she or didn't she?" lies.

mick

2013-04-23 22:59:17

"It’s posted 25." And if my riding experience on Hazelwood Ave, Chislett, Glenwood Bridge, etc, etc, etc is that the speed limits are never enforced. If driving laws were enforced with any regularity, these drivers could be identified before they run somebody over and behavior modification could be attempted Why do we have to wait until a kid gets hit by a car or somebody else gets killed to do anything or get anything done? I got left hooked, what two months ago? Look on the BikePGH accident map and you'll see hundreds of accidents that never made the news How do we get beyond being reactive? I'm sorry for this kid's family, but we're all somebody's kid. Remember how fucking sad it was when Ruihui Lin's mom started crying on the anniversary of her son's death at the ghost bike? I don't know what to do

sgtjonson

2013-04-23 23:24:40

On taht section of Reynolds, it's actually not very common for car to greatly exceed the speed limit.

mick

2013-04-24 00:18:32

The fact that the driver is not being charged really bothers me. My husband pointed out last night that if she had hit another *car* and done serious damage she would have at least gotten a ticket/ points on her license. This family is from a place where cyclists have the right away. Why can't we have that here? When I was cycling in Europe I felt like I was in Shangri-La.

sarah_q

2013-04-24 06:26:21

When the boy recovers and is ready to ride, I would be up for making this family the guests of honor at a special Flock ride. I would love to swoop this boy around town in the midst of dozens of cyclists.

edmonds59

2013-04-24 06:42:26

edmonds59 wrote:When the boy recovers and is ready to ride, I would be up for making this family the guests of honor at a special Flock ride. I would love to swoop this boy around town in the midst of dozens of cyclists.

That would be awesome!!!!! Actually, while I attended yesterday's family ride, there were a lot of kids on their bikes, and they were pretty excited to see all the people that came. A boy kept talking very loudly about how cool all the bigger bikes with gears looked like, and even after the ride asked when we were riding again. Also, one of the parents was very thankful of everyone that came, and mentioned that it would be nice if done thing like that could happen again. In all, watching the scene really warmed my heart, and also made me think that maybe during the summer we could have a couple of special Flock Rides there. How it happens would need to actually be ironed out, but I think it would be great! Most of us start riding bikes when we were kids, so why not have kid & youth rides that show that as adults they could continue riding their bikes, not only for fun or entertainment, but as a way of commuting to work, saving on gas, helping the environment, and the health & community empowering benefits it brings? :)

bikeygirl

2013-04-24 06:57:17

@Mick, we're hearing from neighbors there that motorists are constantly taking turns without paying attention and speeding down their nearly empty streets. The answer is, sharrows aren't good enough. They mark the street with extra signage that hopefully alerts most motorists that they should expect to see bicyclists on this route and help mark a route for bicyclists, but they don't slow down cars. What MUST happen next is to upgrade Reynolds to a Bicycle Blvd (http://nacto.org/cities-for-cycling/design-guide/bicycle-boulevards/) and make sure the cross streets have traffic calming measures like speed humps. I also noticed last night that there aren't any crosswalks to speak of in Point Breeze. That needs to change.

scott

2013-04-24 07:03:30

Yeah it's the kids in that picture that stood out to me. One of their peers just got hit by a car and they're just like - "let's go". The bullshit must change.

edmonds59

2013-04-24 07:17:00

I totally think this is the place for me to judge. 1) She was probably on that street bypassing heavy rush hour traffic on Penn. She should have stuck to Penn instead of diverting to a quiet suburban street to save a minute or two. 2) She, the sole occupant of the car, was driving an SUV, which not only was far too large a car for her needs (likely bought because of the "protection" it claims to offer to the driver), also made it hard to see Iain in front of her. 3) She was attentive enough to pause for the first two cyclists but in a hurry enough to proceed without carefully checking that the intersection was really clear. In other words, this is a classic case of someone who put her convenience over concern for others. And a little boy ended up in critical condition because of her choices.

jonawebb

2013-04-24 07:29:11

I like the bike boulevard idea and I don't know reynolds, maybe it is quiet enough normally, but the fact that it's used as an alternate for Penn makes me doubt that a bit. Honestly I don't know how many useful through streets you're going to find that have few enough cars to satisfy the bike boulevard initial requirements. But one idea to get there... periodically interrupt the road bottlenecking it to bike/ped trail so it CAN'T be a through-way for cars anymore... only bikes/joggers, etc. The local residents going a couple blocks aren't going to be running over kids like commuters trying to dodge traffic.

byogman

2013-04-24 07:45:16

jonawebb wrote:I totally think this is the place for me to judge. 1) She was probably on that street bypassing heavy rush hour traffic on Penn. She should have stuck to Penn instead of diverting to a quiet suburban street to save a minute or two. 2) She, the sole occupant of the car, was driving an SUV, which not only was far too large a car for her needs (likely bought because of the “protection” it claims to offer to the driver), also made it hard to see Iain in front of her. 3) She was attentive enough to pause for the first two cyclists but in a hurry enough to proceed without carefully checking that the intersection was really clear. In other words, this is a classic case of someone who put her convenience over concern for others. And a little boy ended up in critical condition because of her choices.

Yep, she was most likely trying to make time through that residential street with no regard for anyone, but herself. SUV drivers buy them mostly for selfish reasons. Being a bully on the road in a vehicle that doesn't stop well, doesn't handle well and has poor visibility when keeping an eye out for neighborhood kids. Yep, if she hit another car, she would be charged. Pedestrians and cyclists aren't considered. I would hire an attorney and go big. These aggressive drivers need to be stopped.

gg

2013-04-24 07:52:23

Has the news recently mentioned whether or not the driver is still "distraught"? 'Cause I hope she is.

edmonds59

2013-04-24 08:02:15

I drive an SUV. It's great for taking 4 people and all their stuff somewhere with 4 bikes on the back. It's the person behind the wheel, not the vehicle.

benzo

2013-04-24 08:36:02

@Benzo, I know. But I hope you'll agree that SUV drivers have to be extra careful in some situations. And that they're a tool that not everyone needs. And that many people who have them don't need them. And, quite possibly you'll also agree that if this lady hadn't been driving one, Iain wouldn't have ended up in critical condition.

jonawebb

2013-04-24 09:06:37

It's the driver, but... have you ever driven in a rush? Have you ever driven tired or distracted? I have. I've learned a little since starting biking in the fall and really try not to do it anymore. And I try to keep my speeds lower (drives my wife nuts). But this is a recent development in my life. Almost everyone who drives speeds along occasionally in those states, some primarily. There's just a total unconsciousness that's society wide, about what piloting a two ton hunk of metal at 30mph really means. Until people are awakened to it, the harm they cause as motorists will always be disproportionately far worse than the harm they cause by any other actions in their life, and it will come as a shock if and when it does happen... they'll tell themselves some rationalization about... well I was just trying to get to X when Y came out of nowhere. And over time, most will eventually be comforted by how common ~their~ plight is. It seems so ordinary, but logically, when you're driving you're basically going through your city, your neighborhood with a loaded gun, drawn, with the safety off. That's the level of seriousness it should be treated with, and that's why it should be avoided whenever possible. Bad happen with dangerous setups. And that's not an arbitrary comparison for effect, it's the most rational comparison based on the number of deaths. So my message is less to that particular driver than it is to just about all motorists. And I know you're in a hurry, so go ahead and skip the first 5 minutes if you want. A rousing start to your day, no?

byogman

2013-04-24 09:26:17

I for one second a Flock Of Munchkins ride.

pbeaver

2013-04-24 09:37:49

+1 on the Flock of Munchkins. I love that idea, and I know several biking families who will participate.

ajbooth

2013-04-24 09:45:31

Baltimore does something like this regularly. Typically in a very family friendly place. Baltimore Family Bike Party inspired by Kidikal Mass http://baltimorefamilybikeparty.wordpress.com/

benzo

2013-04-24 09:53:05

I'm heartbroken that this happened and hope he makes a full recovery. If y'all are in the habit of making posts somewhere that normal humans read (facebook, etc), this is a good time to point out "This driver is just like you, the reader, and here are SPECIFIC things YOU should do differently so YOU don't have to live with having hit someone" (yes, we should all actually be sympathizing with the *victim*, we can break that to them separately.) People brush off accidents because they think they are better drivers than "that guy" who was drunk, stoned, speeding, awake for 24hrs, texting (yes, we can break it to them later that driving is not graded on the curve and it doesn't matter if they are doing better than x% of the class) and you might notice if you tell them about an accident they will *instantly* try to find something that the driver was "doing wrong" that they, personally, do not do, so that they can sigh with relief and say "can't happen to me!" So this driver makes a pretty good wake-up call, because they can identify with her... don't let them weasel out of it. Goodness knows about 20% of the left-turning drivers I encounter in the evening *badly need* a wake-up call. IME it won't work to say "this could happen to your kids" because people's "I am a better parent than ANYONE else EVER, plus I never let my kids bike because the streets are full of people who drive like me" reflex will kick in. So I'm working on the "this could happen to you and your car" angle. :/

sprite

2013-04-24 09:54:10

@sprite and @byogman, yeah, I've been thinking about this since I used to ride with my kids. It's a real problem, figuring out how to do it. If you ride ahead of them, on the sidewalk, one can lag behind (not saying this is what happened here); if you ride behind, one can get ahead and then you're watching your child ride across driveways down the block without a care in the world. On the street, you can ride in a protective position (kids against the curb, adult behind, more to the center) but you have to have kids who are old enough to ride straight and who are at least a little aware of the traffic issues. Either way you're depending on drivers looking out for your children, and if you think you're safe, it only takes an accident like this one to show you that's an illusion.. The only "safe" alternative is to load up the SUV or minivan with your bike and theirs and drive to the park or the trail. Which totally sucks, people should be able to ride safely in a neighborhood like Point Breeze.

jonawebb

2013-04-24 10:13:10

There were some kids rides in the Regent Square area last summer.

rsprake

2013-04-24 10:18:14

Separated bike lanes please. Miles of them. If only there was money

stefb

2013-04-24 10:22:07

Hey, so my friend just mentioned something that changes this up for me - said that the cyclists were riding on the sidewalk. Anyone hear that elsewhere? (I haven't seen any of the followup coverage after Monday.) It is really, really dangerous to ride from the sidewalk into the street at a crosswalk or intersection, and I see young and less experienced riders do it all the time. My friend also sent a letter to the local politician asking for a stop sign to be added on Reynolds, which I think is a great idea.

erink

2013-04-24 10:25:24

1. I hate SUVs. No judgement against the person driving it other than to say "do you really make use of the vehicle?" Some people need/use an SUV for something other than to feel like they are driving a tank. The reason that I hate SUVs is simple, there are a lot of them on the road. SUVs on the road encourage others to drive SUVs thus making the problem worse. What's the problem with an SUV, you may ask? Simple.. even when I'm in my car, I can't see past the damn things to prepare for traffic up ahead. They are like moving walls on the highways and roads that reduce my reaction time. Remember those posters encouraging people to write their representatives if you don't want 18wheelers pulling three trailers at once? It's a lot like that for me. Just change out a picture of an extra long tractor-trailer with a line of SUVs. But, I digress since it was a lone SUV responsible for this latest reminder of human stupidity. My hope is that the events opened up this woman's eyes. It's easy to sit here and type about what a bad person she is and to say things like "I hope she is suffering." What I'd really hope is that she would make amends for her crime. In an ideal world, such a person would go on the all of the local news stations and plead with other drivers to not be in a rush, look both ways, and remember that there are people out there who are vulnerable when we aren't paying attention... yeah, in an ideal world. I doubt this woman has the balls to do what is right, she'll just hide out and let the status quo remain. So, by some small chance that she ever finds and reads this thread... Dear Lady, Please own up to your mistake and actually try to make a difference in this world. You have move power than you know.

headloss

2013-04-24 10:25:57

I met with the mom and dad yesterday and they said nothing about riding on the sidewalk. That said, riding on the sidewalk there is completely legal.

scott

2013-04-24 10:30:01

Please, please let’s do the munchkin ride. Can we do them regularly? And since no date is set, can we do them Sunday not Saturday? I would be there for sure with my 8 year old + 2 in a trailer and my neighbor who’s sabbath observant similarly bike crazy would try to come I’m sure and has quite a flock of munchkins (and preteens and teenagers) just by himself. There are a fair number of families in my community, some of them quite large, I could probably get in on this. In terms of how to do the ride, I think if you've got numbers the best answer is to pick a very low traffic route, claim the lane, and have adults take the front and rear, teen riders ride in the driver position in lane in between, and munchkins, to the right. In the case of a left turn, a spare adult rider from front or rear pull forward or drop back and box the turn or even dismount and act as a crossing guard.

byogman

2013-04-24 10:37:02

@scott that is the only way the accident makes sense to me. They were on the way to the park and if they weren't on the sidewalk then how was the boy hit when a driver turned left onto Lexington? Unless they were riding against traffic on Reynolds...

jonawebb

2013-04-24 10:57:14

most def adult rolling vangaurd front & rear & the kiddos on the curb side. and while corking intersections is not common practice for Flock, you bet your backside we'd be taking those intersections by force.

pbeaver

2013-04-24 11:03:35

Flock of Munchkins would be cool :) I don't have kids, BUT I like kids, plus feel like a kid myself :) I'll talk to the Flock's BoD and see.... I don't know what kind of liability would this require.

bikeygirl

2013-04-24 11:04:01

On the ride: I can certainly make myself available to help escort, cork, run interference, whatever. On the "accident": My understanding is similar to Scott's. The family's riding habits are beyond reproach. They own a dozen-plus bikes. Both parents highly educated; they know how to ride down the street correctly. The pavement on Reynolds is pretty rough. Lots of holes. In scheduling a paving job, let's also hope for at least a couple of speed humps if not a redesign to make it a bike boulevard. Slightly off-topic, but geographically close: The First Fridays at the Frick concerts run in June-Sept, and cause that whole area to be clogged with cars. (I park over on Thomas when I go.) One of my early long bike trips was to bike there from McCandless. I would surely like to figure out a way to reduce the number of cars trying to converge on the Frick Art Museum. Getting 50 fewer cars there, of probably 1,000 that show up, would be a show of support, and I'm sure the residents in that area would agree.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-24 11:43:08

+1 for running traffic control on the Flock of Munchkins ride. I'll do what I can with my work schedule to be there for the kids. On another note, did the news reports release the name of the perpetrator of this incident? If she really feels as shaken up and bad as she claims, she should voluntarily give up her license and stop driving until she's had time to review what safe driving is and how to correct her behavior, or she should just voluntarily stop driving altogether.

jaysherman5000

2013-04-24 12:28:59

...or she should just voluntarily stop driving altogether. Easier said than done. I'm tired of hearing myself say it, and maybe some of you are tired of hearing me repeat it, but unless and until we get people to start using Anything But The Car to get around, we will keep having these incidents. (I will not call them accidents.) Just how would you go from home to work, then to the doctor's office, then to the store pick up some potatoes, then back home, using transit? For three, four, generations, the answer is, you don't except with a car, and expect no traffic delays and ample parking the entire trip. That problem is solvable, but not easily. Over time, I've figured it out, but I'm only one person. Absent a car, this woman would not have injured this kid. Yanking her license only forces the issue, but does not solve anything, not for her, not for the 50,000 other drivers on Penn Avenue, not for anyone trying to get around by bike. THAT is the problem we need to solve, and the partial solution is to make transit truly usable, and the way to do that is with an order of magnitude easier to understand transit info.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-24 12:59:34

make transit truly usable, and the way to do that is with an order of magnitude easier to understand transit info. Easier than transit directions on Google Maps?

ieverhart

2013-04-24 14:40:03

ieverhart wrote: Easier than transit directions on Google Maps?

As a start it needs to be real time. From there it needs to be more frequent and more direct. But beyond that even, we have to get back to neighborhoods. Cars have made it too easy to have a doctor or church across town and too easy for us to drive 4 miles further to the "nice" grocery store rather than the one down the street.

rsprake

2013-04-24 15:11:55

pbeaves wrote:I for one second a Flock Of Munchkins ride.

I'm fifth or sixthing it. This is a stupendous idea.

justray

2013-04-24 15:56:07

I assume people do not have any better technology than I do at the moment: A crappy cell phone with no Internet. The only thing I assume is that they can read English (and I have reason to doubt that, but let's keep the argument simple). Why drive anywhere, ever? Lots of good reasons, but I'd wager 3 in 10 car trips, at least, are unnecessary if the info was available. I do not know where this woman was heading, but it's safe to assume she was traveling from work (I think some medical office in Sq Hill?) to home, somewhere east of Braddock Ave (I don't know where). Such a trip is definitely do-able by transit. So why wasn't she on a bus? Throw in a few side trips -- I mentioned picking up something at the store, getting Suzy to piano lesson, yada yada, and that vastly complicates traveling by transit. If you cannot figure out a theoretical trip of (say) Forbes and Shady to (say) Collins Rd in Blackridge, then adding Points C and D to that becomes nigh impossible.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-24 16:13:02

I love the idea of the munchkin ride. I was impressed with the parents and the kids they brought on Tuesday eve. One kid did the ride skooching along on his balance bike! It would be a good opportunity to demonstrate visibility and safe riding habits (i know, we all have different philosophies on this....do whatever is a good role model for kids riding to school...). Other thoughts... -All of the problems neighbors who live near the accident cited are similar to problems neighbors in Park Place (the far side of S. Braddock Ave) and Regent Square have. People speeding, dangerous or entirely negligent "yielding" at existing crosswalks, unsafe passing of cyclists, lack of crosswalks in many places, people avoiding Penn Ave or S & N Braddock at high speeds, blowing through neighborhood stop signs, etc. It is challenging to visit the park I live 2 blocks from. -There are a several schools adjacent to the park: Sterret Elementary, Ellis School, Shady Side Academy, and 2 locations of the Environmental Charter School (I'd throw Shady Lane in there, too). On my side of the park we have major problems with speeding school buses, private cars blocking bikes, peds & driveways, etc. -I drive to Moon Twp during the morning rush hour about 3x per week. I often pass Allderdice High school and see unbelievable stuff nearly every time. Speeding. Ignoring the "no turn on red" sign. Yielding, um I mean Buzzing, crossing guards at Shady @ Beacon and again at Shady @ Forward. Sometimes there is a backup on southbound Shady of people waiting to turn right onto Forward and head toward the Parkway ramps. Cars who intend to go straight or L on get impatient and pass despite the double yellow line. I have even seen a couple of cars & SUVs use the sidewalk IN A SCHOOL ZONE IN FRONT OF THE SCHOOL to pass the line of cars waiting to turn right. It is so stressful to watch. I am one of the people waiting to turn right, cringing at the ass-hattery. I hate driving & really wish there were more transportation options out to Moon Twp.

pseudacris

2013-04-24 16:23:04

Maybe the answer is to allow gas drilling in Frick Park. The proceeds could be used to build a dedicated expressway right through the park for cars only. Paging Jack Wagner and Rick Fitzgerald?

pseudacris

2013-04-24 16:26:16

"The proceeds could be used to build a dedicated expressway right through the park for cars only." Oh, like the one in Schenley Park? Yeah, that's just great... I don't recall if this link has been dropped in this thread, but I'm sensing it's time: http://localhost/2013/03/22/take-action-tell-the-candidates-that-you-want-safe-streets/

byogman

2013-04-24 17:39:07

Did Peduto imply that he would get stop signs up and maybe get some serious traffic calming installed (bumps, chicanes, anything...) Something like this:

→ street narrows so that cars have to negotiate passage → cross-walk is raised and acts as a speed bump → a signed crosswalk for pedestrians What's not to like? (gubament taking away our freedoms?)

ahlir

2013-04-24 18:21:51

God, I would love to see street furniture like that all over the city.

chinston

2013-04-24 19:47:06

Park Place and Regent Square are working hard to lobby for "bump-outs" like in your photo for Braddock Avenue. I don't know if that is a good solution for Reynolds, though. I 311'd the pothole situation on Reynolds. They are especially bad in the next block. Can everybody else jump on that? I know the DPW crews are out doing potholes now and it would be nice to get that done fast. I'd like to see all-way stop signs at Lexington. Also the traffic circle there is sort of terrifying to cross on foot or by bike. Nobody really seems to know how to handle it and it's too wide. If it was a tighter turn, then you'd be forced to slow down. But really, if you made Lexington one way, you'd eliminate a ton of through traffic there. And big +1 to the family/kid rides!! I organized one for Bike Fest last year and we had 3 lovely families join us for a little ride from the Bowling Green to the Blue Slide park. It would be awesome if someone wanted to organize a weekly or monthly ride. I'd do it, but I'm swamped with all these stinkin' traffic meetings I go to. :)

katyfrey

2013-04-24 20:01:54

Benzo wrote:I drive an SUV. It’s great for taking 4 people and all their stuff somewhere with 4 bikes on the back.

I can easily do all that in any 4 door car, even my little A4. Oh and I have AWD, can see little kids, it handles well, avoids well and is just much smarter to drive. Sorry, but it is what it is.

gg

2013-04-24 20:23:35

@ Stu - I don't have a data-enabled/smart phone either. Compared to the mobile interface, the website version for Transit Directions is as good if not better for planning out routes and exploring options for any given trip. As I see it, the problem is then either (1) people don't have computers and Internet at home to connect, or (2) people don't want to make the effort to plan out a route in advance. But in neither scenario is it an issue of the Port Authority's need to provide "easier to understand transit info." We've talked about putting route maps and schedules at bus stops (as they seem to do in a lot of other cities) and while I am in favor of that, I am not convinced that it makes it more easy to understand. What else could be happening in the realm of "information"? (Would someone who won't look for point-to-point information online look online for anything else?) Is it something other than routing? @ Ryan - I agree that more frequent service and more direct routes would be great, and I would also love to see real-time tracking. But that's not the same as figuring out how to make a trip using existing route and schedules, to answer the question "Just how would you go from home to work, then to the doctor’s office, then to the store pick up some potatoes, then back home, using transit?" +1 on neighborhoods.

ieverhart

2013-04-24 20:30:04

I added this comment to the Post-Gazette story: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/neighborhoods-city/8-year-old-boy-in-critical-condition-after-being-hit-on-bicycle-684576/ Mark Parrish suggested that 8 year olds should not be bicycling on streets. Nonsense. We need ten times as many 8 year olds bicycling on our streets. That way they can grow up to be adults that bike to work and stay healthy. PA Vehicle Code Sec. 3501 says "Every person riding a pedalcycle upon a roadway shall be granted all of the rights and shall be subject to all of the duties applicable to the driver of a vehicle…" From all I've heard, the cycling family was within their rights, cycling on the street in a legal and safe fashion, and had the right of way, but the car driver was careless, perhaps in a hurry, probably didn't look around after stopping, and ran over a kid. She should lose her license for a year, I'd say.

paulheckbert

2013-04-25 00:38:09

Oh you people went and got me involved in the PG comments. :/

edmonds59

2013-04-25 06:32:00

Hm, guys many of us have cars. Even more have driver license. And all we should remember that (http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/pa_driversmanual/introduction.pdf): Driving is a privilege and not a right. This privilege comes with many responsibilities. I feel that people like Mark Parrish don't remember about this fact. PS I don't have facebook account and I ma not going to create it. So I cannot comment on PPG site.

mikhail

2013-04-25 06:32:11

No worries Mikhail, I got that covered. :)

edmonds59

2013-04-25 06:33:09

Thanks!

mikhail

2013-04-25 06:45:37

In regards to "street furniture" PIttsburgh hates pedestrians Please see those photos. I used to take pics when I saw them. It is plain and simple. The laws need to be enforced. Speed limits. Stop signs. Ped crossings. All of them.

steevo

2013-04-25 07:30:27

I drive an SUV, and I use it to haul my bike inside of it every day. I don't understand why some people seem to imply that SUV's make the roads less safe than any other vehicle.

Drewbacca wrote:But, I digress since it was a lone SUV responsible for this latest reminder of human stupidity.

Seriously? An inanimate object is responsible for human stupidity?

jonawebb wrote:I know. But I hope you’ll agree that SUV drivers have to be extra careful in some situations.

Why do SUV drivers have to be more careful than any other driver?

gg wrote:SUV drivers buy them mostly for selfish reasons.

Doesn't everyone buy a vehicle for selfish reasons? Seems to me that it is the idiot behind the wheel that causes the problems, not their choice of vehicle.

ericf

2013-04-25 08:10:39

@edmonds, check your pm's

marko82

2013-04-25 08:12:36

People like Mark Parrish are the types that are happiest in their own misery. He is just trying to bring others down around him to have some company in that miserable state. No doubt forgot to take his meds again. More importantly, I hope the kid is doing better each day. I also hope something can be done to these self centered selfish drivers speeding through city streets to try and save one minute. She sure fits the bill of the typical aggressive SUV driver running around city streets. I see them countless times every day.

gg

2013-04-25 08:14:24

@ericf, because you're higher up and it's harder to see what's in front of you, down low. Also the car is heavier and will cause more damage in an accident. And the car is wider so you need to pull over more when, say, passing a cyclist.

jonawebb

2013-04-25 08:26:10

@Marko - done.

edmonds59

2013-04-25 08:33:20

@jonawebb I agree that SUV's are higher, heavier, and wider, but every driver has to be able to control their vehicle regardless of its mass or size. Your comment seems to imply that somehow people who drive smaller vehicles can get away with being less observant or attentive than people who drive larger vehicles.

ericf

2013-04-25 08:39:13

I drive an SUV. I need the space, as I have a side job that requires me to fill the vehicle with equipment every weekend. I've never hit anyone. I'm careful, I look around, and I drive like I ride--always assuming that every other driver is an asshat. It's not the vehicle, or the type of vehicle, it's the operator.

ajbooth

2013-04-25 10:22:00

"Seriously? An inanimate object is responsible for human stupidity?" If that is how you want to read into my words, I'm not going to bother correcting you. It's not healthy to nit-pick a sentence out of the larger context... and I still can't see over your stupid oversized vehicle without a periscope. But, if you have a valid reason to drive an oversized vehicle... more power to you.

headloss

2013-04-25 10:31:41

@Drewbacca, I am not trying to start a flame war, and did not mean to nit-pick. I am trying to understand if you truly believe that if the woman had been driving a smaller vehicle that somehow she would not have hit Iain, or if you are just making a political statement with your SUV bashing.

ericf

2013-04-25 11:35:30

@ericf, it's common sense to believe that if this driver had been driving a smaller vehicle which places the driver closer to the ground she would have had a smaller chance of hitting the boy, because she would have been able to see him better.

jonawebb

2013-04-25 11:39:43

I'm not sure I buy the smaller vehicle/closer to the ground argument. I think she did not see him because she did not look. Logically, here is what I think probably happened...Iain was lagging behind a bit, out of the drivers' line of vision. She waved Dad and daughter through, and assumed that it was then OK to go, without actually looking to see if that was the case. If that is what happened, and again, I'm guessing that it might be, then it would not matter what she drove, or how close to the ground she was. If you don't look, you won't see.

ajbooth

2013-04-25 12:14:58

ajbooth, +1

marko82

2013-04-25 13:39:09

@ajbooth and @ericf, let's be reasonable. Anyone who studies how humans pay attention and process information knows it's not an all or nothing proposition. Different things can distract you from important parts of the task at hand, or focus you on it. After the father and daughter passed the driver was probably looking down Lexington and her line of sight would have been a lot closer to the boy's head if she was lower down, so she'd have been more likely to notice him in her peripheral vision. Of course it's her responsibility to drive safely no matter what car she's driving. But the SUV may well have contributed to the accident.

jonawebb

2013-04-25 14:51:17

@jonawebb, How am I being unreasonable? Vehicles don't cause accidents, bad drivers do. If we follow your thinking, then is it ok for the driver to say "Well of course I couldn't see him, I was driving an SUV"? This thread is filled with a lot of "probably" and "might have" assumptions by people who don't know what really happened, and I find it scary that seemingly intelligent people are lining up to lay blame on the driver's choice of vehicle. Kind of like blaming guns for murdering people. Let's just ban SUV's and then there will never be another accident.

ericf

2013-04-25 15:22:00

"and I find it scary that seemingly intelligent people are lining up to lay blame on the driver’s choice of vehicle. Kind of like blaming guns for murdering people. Let’s just ban SUV’s and then there will never be another accident." Cars and guns have experienced a proliferation in this country that results in a lot of people getting killed. The majority of the population doesn't need either. As Stu alluded to, she probably wouldn't have hit the kid if she was walking, riding a bike, or the bus.

sgtjonson

2013-04-25 15:35:28

ericf wrote:@jonawebb, How am I being unreasonable? Vehicles don’t cause accidents, bad drivers do. If we follow your thinking, then is it ok for the driver to say “Well of course I couldn’t see him, I was driving an SUV”?

with that line of reasoning, we could also say it's ok for a driver to say "i couldn't see him, i was wearing a blindfold." so, no, your comparison doesn't hold. it's certainly not unreasonable to believe that reduced sight lines due to the driver's choice of vehicle may have been a factor in the collision. but no one here is arguing that the driver would have no culpability if that were the case. if you choose to drive something that is more difficult, you have to use greater caution while driving. if you don't, you have an increased likelihood of a negative incident. surely you don't disagree with this, even if you don't think the driver's choice of vehicle had any effect in this case.

hiddenvariable

2013-04-25 15:38:58

I still contend that it is likely that she did not see him because she did not look. And it doesn't matter what you drive if you don't make the effort to turn your head. She failed to use the necessary caution in the situation she was in, and a little boy paid the price.

ajbooth

2013-04-25 15:48:25

So long as drivers realize SUVs should NOT be driven like cars, but as I see every day they are driven the same as cars. That is the problem. Sure SUVs are as safe as a car so long as you drive them like the trucks they are. Leave more room when following other cars/cyclists or whatever. Slow down way more if negotiating curves in the road because you don't know what will be around that curve. A cyclists or pedestrian perhaps? Remember, they don't handle well and they don't brake well and they certainly can't do both very well. They are top heavy and just don't maneuver well. Therefore, don't drive them like a car. Do we see SUV drivers not tailgating, driving slower and driving as they should? No. Therefore, I do feel they cause more accidents due to drivers watching all those dumb commercials showing SUVs going through slaloms as if they can handle well and blowing fast through that snow drift like they can magically stop better than a car. They are good for very little. They don't have much more utility than most cars. It is more smoke and mirrors really. Anyway, it is what it is. I don't know what would happen in this case if the women was driving a car. Most likely she wouldn't have been trying to avoid traffic in a selfish manner cutting through a quiet residential street.

gg

2013-04-25 15:52:13

@Pierce, I don't disagree with you at all, but she and millions of others drive SUV's every day. @HiddenVariable, The difference in sight lines between a Smart car and a Hummer are not that much different to have had an impact on this situation. We are talking about a kid on a bicycle here, not a cat or a dog.

ericf

2013-04-25 15:58:36

gg wrote:Anyway, it is what it is. I don’t know what would happen in this case if the women was driving a car. Most likely she wouldn’t have been trying to avoid traffic in a selfish manner cutting through a quiet residential street.

I'm sorry, but I don't follow that line of thinking at all. She drives an SUV, therefore she is selfish and more likely to take a shortcut? That's a really big leap. My SUV handles just fine. I drive it carefully, just like I drive my wife's sedan. I've seen just as many, if not more, commercials showing cars doing the slalom, or any other handling tricks, and I've seen just as many bad car drivers as I have bad SUV drivers. It's the driver, not the vehicle. By lumping all SUV drivers together and assigning them attributes, we're just as bad as the "All cyclists run red lights" crowd. Except that we should know better.

ajbooth

2013-04-25 16:03:58

ajbooth wrote: My SUV handles just fine. I drive it carefully, just like I drive my wife’s sedan.

This is what I am talking about. You CAN'T drive that SUV like your wife's sedan. Didn't you read my post? SUV's don't do anything well. They don't avoid anything, so you need to leave more room for error. Cars handle better and avoid better. Sure maybe not a 1964 Caddy, but I am talking late model here. Hopefully you drive them both REALLY carefully and that is fine. Then sure, you can drive them the same, but my point is most drive SUVs way too fast and that is when the problems start. MOST of the issues I have on the road are from the SUV crowd though, so sure I profile and always will. I at least want to try and stay alive on our roads. Not an easy feat.

gg

2013-04-25 16:09:42

ajbooth wrote:By lumping all SUV drivers together and assigning them attributes, we’re just as bad as the “All cyclists run red lights” crowd. Except that we should know better.

I have to disagree here. I worked in the automotive industry and interacted with thousands of drivers and their cars*. You start to see definite trends. Whether it be because marketing, personality type, or some other cause, there is definitely a particular customer for most SUV's--especially Jeeps and other brand-heavy vehicle. Sure, some people bought their vehicle for practical reasons, but there is plenty of proof that shows most Americans don't use rational thought to buy things--they are sold to them. Billions of dollars are spent trying to sell certain things to certain people. Because of this, you definitely see behavioral trends with owners based on the cars they drive. This idea might not sit well with a lot of cyclists, but that is probably because most of are in that minority that is rationally thinking about purchase decisions--part of the reason they ride bikes. I'm certainly not saying all SUV drivers are bad drivers--when I drive, it's a 6,000lb 5.7L full-size van--or that we should/shouldn't lump them together, but it certainly isn't the same as lumping people on bikes together. Also, from what I was told by someone who knows the family, the driver was not just cutting through--she lives in S Point Breeze.

ndromb

2013-04-25 16:41:16

PIttsburgh hates pedestrians Please see those photos. I used to take pics when I saw them.

adding all of these to my queue and tagging them with the same tag

rubberfactory

2013-04-25 16:52:31

There are, as has been mentioned good reasons for some people to buy SUVs, but usually, even thinking that an SUV might be desirable is a sign that you watch more TV than your brain is capable of processing correctly.

mick

2013-04-25 17:06:32

jonawebb wrote:her line of sight would have been a lot closer to the boy’s head if she was lower down, so she’d have been more likely to notice him in her peripheral vision.

This is overly generic statement. Look at Corvette or Mustang. You are almost laying in a seat. Your ability to observe is even worse than in SUV and/or in minivan. As a matter of fact in these cars your observation ability is more limited in any direction than in SUV. You cannot turn your head easily. Your head is much lower relative to nontransparent part of a door. I can name quite a few cars with the same issues.

mikhail

2013-04-25 17:30:17

@ericf, The statement that you quoted wasn't meant to imply that "the SUV caused" anything. It was meant to clarify that my talking-about-SUVs-in-general was drifting off-topic. I certainly could have been more clear, but I didn't expect the necessity of doing so. To be clear: No, I don't think that an SUV caused this particular incident. I know that the driver of an SUV caused this particular incident. Would the driver have done the same in a smaller car? There's no way of knowing... so, I suppose it's a moot discussion to have. That said: I don't have a problem with SUVs on a case-by-case basis. I don't have a problem with anyone owning or driving one in general. What I have a problem with is the cultural aspect of SUVs. They were pushed by auto manufacturers due to the higher profit-margins. They were, for a while at least, a luxury vehicle that was a method of getting around gasoline efficiency requirements. They were and continue to be a vehicle frequently driven by people who have never learned to drive a vehicle of that size. They are also a self-sustaining trend... in that, put enough of them on the road and it becomes an incentive (in of itself) for other drivers to buy one in order to not feel vulnerable to the large number of SUVs on the road. It also creates a problem with visibility for other drivers who can't see past an SUV... which was my primary point. I'll leave it at that unless someone wants to start a separate thread for SUV discussion. The wreck could have happened if she was driving a golf-cart FWIW... but I think it would have been less likely. Also (FWIW) I learned to drive in a full-size GM van and I drove a full-size pick'm-up truck for a few years.

headloss

2013-04-25 17:51:06

Uh... I don't like SUVs, but I'm starting to feel queasy about this conversation. We don't know - either way- if the size and variety of that vehicle made a difference. There's real people from our community that were involved in this accident. They can - and some of them do for sure - read what we have written about this. It's emotionally charged. I mean, it is for us, even. Perhaps we should take debate about SUVs to an other thread.

mick

2013-04-25 19:54:08

+1 take it to another thread. Whether you choose to travel by SUV, semi, tiny car, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard, or on foot you're responsible for making sure you don't run people over.

salty

2013-04-25 22:25:18

salty wrote:Whether you choose to travel by SUV, semi, tiny car, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard, or on foot you’re responsible for making sure you don’t run people over.

also, yeah. take it to another thread.

cburch

2013-04-25 22:56:36

I would like to offer my sincere apologies to those involved with this tragic incident, as well as the community at large, for dragging this thread off topic. Although nothing was posted in poor taste, it does take the focus away from the victim and his family. My heart goes out to them, and I wish Iain a full and speedy recovery. I have started a new thread here: http://localhost/mb/topic/suv-debate/#post-270249

ericf

2013-04-26 04:58:25

The police marked the POI (point of impact) and the stopping location of the car on the asphalt and I'd estimate the distance traveled after impact at about 30 feet. If those markings are accurate then from that long stopping distance I conclude that either: a) driver was inattentive (i.e. didn't see, hear, or feel the impact), b) driver was not in control of vehicle, or c) driver was traveling quite fast when the impact occurred, or some combination of those.

paulheckbert

2013-04-26 21:36:00

As the mother posted on another thread, the father had to chase down the driver to get her to stop. Sickening, imagine.

jonawebb

2013-04-27 08:38:24

I can imagine. I would be in jail. Because I would have beaten the living shit out of her.

edmonds59

2013-04-27 08:46:53

+1 Not sure I could have controlled myself.

ajbooth

2013-04-27 09:18:17

Hitting the driver wouldn't solve a thing when you have an injured child to tend to. Priorities.

headloss

2013-04-27 11:35:10

jonawebb wrote:As the mother posted on another thread, the father had to chase down the driver to get her to stop. Sickening, imagine.

That is a sickening image. I really don't know what to say other than I hope he is doing better each day and makes a full recovery. Just a horrible story.

gg

2013-04-27 16:51:41

I am shocked by this accident and it is truly a shame. Everyone fails to mention that the driver stopped to let the dad and daughter go across and the boy was no where near them. I question why the father didn't wait for his other child before waving thank you to the driver. How many times has it happened that kids ran out in front of cars and gotten hit. I think EVERYONE needs to be more careful and mindful of our children. I have much sympathy for everyone involved. It was a horrible accident. No one person was at fault and condemning all drivers who turn down a road in point breeze as careless is uncalled for. I drive this neighborhood as I did that very day and never have I hit anyone. I agree that when biking, it should be safer, I only bike in certain areas with my kids and will continue to do so until our city is responsible for our safety.

neenad

2013-04-27 16:53:42

neenad wrote: the boy was no where near them

Do you have facts on this account? Or did you witness it? If answer is no the you kno waht it is. Some people do a lot of assumptions including one that there is only one child following a parent. I saw almost similar situation but with crossing pedestrians when second child almost got hit even the girl followed father and and brother was 3 feet behind. I had to kick door of the car pretty hard making a dent in it to get driver attention.

mikhail

2013-04-27 17:50:30

Welcome to the board, neenad. Glad you're shocked. I'm sure the parents are as well. First, fuck the term "accident". This is negligent operation of a vehicle. Also, fuck the term "shame". This is a tragedy. I have no sympathy for this driver. When she put the key in the ignition she accepted responsibility for operating a thing that is a potentially deadly weapon, and she should have operated it in a corresponding manner. The driver is entirely at fault, so stop that bullshit immediately. I am so glad you have never hit anyone. I'm sure everyone who has not been hit by you is glad also. The city is not responsible for "our" safety. Operators of motor vehicles are. Thanks for your input.

edmonds59

2013-04-27 21:05:17

Not enough attention is being paid, IMHO, to my contention: Why EVER drive? What made this trip, or anyone's trip in a car, necessary? I'm sure a few trips can only be accomplished by using an automobile, but the more you try not to, the more you find out that indeed it is possible. Change some things. * Choose not to shop at a place that can only be gotten to by car. * Choose to plan expected trips, like shopping, such that you only need to do it once every two weeks instead of weekly or almost daily. * Choose to commute by bus, carpool, bicycle, feet, or some combination thereof. * Better yet, telecommute when at all possible so you don't lose valuable time at 100% capacity doing something useless like merely getting there. Demand it, when the job allows it. * Downsize your fleet. Your household only needs one car, tops. I'm making it work in McCandless, have been for 20+ years. Stop thinking "I own a car" and rather "My household has a car, shared among multiple drivers." * Stop making trips to "pick someone up" when they can walk or bike or bus. * Decide that Suzy and Danny *can* get to piano lesson on their own. Think "they're already 10" instead of "they're only 10". * Cease to tolerate bad driving behavior. Call people out on it. If you want to stand at red lights with a baseball bat and take out a windshield or two of drivers who don't yield to pedestrians, it might be worth the court battle and media coverage. * When cycling, TAKE THE DAMN LANE. Refuse to concede to having to hug parked cars (with doors opening), the curb, etc. You are MUCH safer smack dab in front of someone's steering wheel than off to the side where they *think* they can get past you. * Buy bus fare. I didn't say ride the bus. (Well, I did, earlier, but this is different.) Buy a monthly pass. Then another. Figure out how the system works without having to figure out fares. Make it work. The more people they have paying into the system, whether they ride it or not, the more likely they will keep routes in place and maybe even expand service. * Learn how to use the buses' bike racks. Bike to the bus, use the bus to get past the suckiest traffic, then bike the rest of the way to your destination. I was at the park for that little gathering. I rode from McCandless, up by CCAC North, by way of downtown where I work. I took a bus to the busway's Homewood station and biked to Reynolds & S Lex. Then I rode back downtown, using Fifth, taking the lane (nearly) the whole way. (One spot, I let a bunch of cars and a bus past. One.) Stop driving. I'm serious. Figure out how. Make it work. I don't care what you're driving. When we stop driving, we will stop running people over. It's that simple.

stuinmccandless

2013-04-27 21:20:49

Stu, the problem is very clear. Nobody thinks when they get into the car... hey, I feel like putting my neighbors and others passing through my neighborhood in danger today. Except that's what they're doing. In the case of tired, distracted, or rushed driving the danger knob goes to 11. I mean, people have ~somewhat~ got the idea with drinking, but these three conditions, often combined are SO common and people don't think twice about driving under them. This is, I think, is where the message can start. I had my fun earlier in the thread with the link out to "Wake Up!", but the truth is that full throated Rage Against the Machine probably won't be heard. Look, I'd love people out of the cars in dense urban areas, period, till they're self driving. But it ain't happening. And trying to get them to realize that any driving with other options is not good is too far a reach. The comparative low hanging fruit here is to make someone feel a sense of responsibility about driving tired, distracted, or rushed. Show first behavior, crash, rewind, show better behavior (or public transit option). With the distracted driving case, you should do cells of course, but I think that's worthy of a two-parter. In the second part, kids causing trouble in the back seat, parent warns, "I'm going to pull this car over!", reaches back, crash, rewind, "I'm going to pull this car over!"... and then actually pulling the car over... cut to sheepish looking kid. Tagline: BE IN CONTROL.

byogman

2013-04-27 22:01:10

neenad wrote:I am shocked by this accident and it is truly a shame. Everyone fails to mention that the driver stopped to let the dad and daughter go across and the boy was no where near them. I question why the father didn’t wait for his other child before waving thank you to the driver.

Try this one on for size, @neenad: The driver waved the family on. The boy was a little bit behind the others, just far enough to be out of the driver's straight ahead line of vision. When she saw the father and daughter pass, without turning her head, she ASSUMED that it was clear, and went forward. Without looking to be sure. That's my assumption, admittedly not having any more information than what's been published. That being said, yes, there was a person at fault. The driver. She hit someone because she didn't see him. Simply means she either didn't look, or didn't look hard enough. Either way, it's on her. Stop trying to blame the father, even though you say no one is to blame.

ajbooth

2013-04-28 10:51:36

"Everyone fails to mention that the driver stopped to let the dad and daughter go across and the boy was no where near them. I question why the father didn’t wait for his other child before waving thank you to the driver. How many times has it happened that kids ran out in front of cars and gotten hit. " You could ask the sister of the boy who got hit if he was "on her wheel" TdF style. Or ask the father, who made EYE CONTACT, with the driver and did not "wave her on." Speculating nincompoop. Raising issues is good, speaking falsely about facts you know nothing about us irresponsible and could be hurtful. Think of the father! I do, he is my husband and my son was hit and there is no way he would lag behind his twin.

furchtbar

2013-04-28 17:45:12

By the way, I rode through here Saturday morning on my way to the Keg Ride and a woman driving up Lexington totally blew off the stop sign and was halfway through the intersection when I yelled at her and she stopped. That's the only stop sign in that intersection and she's driving right through it? I was riding toward the traffic circle so I was heading right where she was driving. I don't think the cycling community's outrage is enough to change drivers' behavior but a few police blitzes ticketing folks who drive this way could make a big difference. Who has pull with the police around here?

erink

2013-04-28 21:38:59

"Who has pull with the police around here?" I don't know but am going to guess, um... nobody. At least, the amount of garbage that seems to go on with complete disinterest or a shrug at best make it hard to think anything else. Now, if anyone objects to this and says, hey my cousin so and so is a police officer (preferably high ranking), then GREAT! Let's make those connections and see what can be accomplished. In fact, even if we don't have those connections personally, I wonder if organizationally, event based, bike-pgh can help seed this. One way or another, we need friends carrying badges.

byogman

2013-04-28 22:13:15

Citizen's arrest? We should check into the guidelines. Pool funds and buy a speed "gun". (Don't go there) Then we can either collect data or make Citizen's arrests. Even data would be great.

furchtbar

2013-04-28 22:26:31

ErinK wrote: I don’t think the cycling community’s outrage is enough to change drivers’ behavior but a few police blitzes ticketing folks who drive this way could make a big difference. Who has pull with the police around here?

I think that's District 9, Burgess.

ka_jun

2013-04-28 22:28:33

I went back to Lexington and Reynolds and measured the distance the car traveled after it hit the boy and before stopping (as marked on the asphalt), and it's 40 feet. My earlier estimate of 30 feet was inaccurate.

paulheckbert

2013-04-28 22:54:48

byogman wrote:“Who has pull with the police around here?” I don’t know but am going to guess, um… nobody. At least, the amount of garbage that seems to go on with complete disinterest or a shrug at best make it hard to think anything else. Now, if anyone objects to this and says, hey my cousin so and so is a police officer (preferably high ranking), then GREAT! Let’s make those connections and see what can be accomplished. In fact, even if we don’t have those connections personally, I wonder if organizationally, event based, bike-pgh can help seed this. One way or another, we need friends carrying badges.

This has got to be one of my favorite comments. Thanks

furchtbar

2013-04-29 02:15:28

StuInMcCandless wrote:Not enough attention is being paid, IMHO, to my contention: Why EVER drive? What made this trip, or anyone’s trip in a car, necessary? I’m sure a few trips can only be accomplished by using an automobile, but the more you try not to, the more you find out that indeed it is possible.

I am amazed at how you get around, in spite of our poor transit and inadequate infrastructure. I lived car free for 18 months, and got around the eastern suburbs by doing a number of thing that you list. I went back to driving part time, that is another story.

ericf

2013-04-29 04:40:14

furchtbar wrote:Think of the father! I do, he is my husband and my son was hit and there is no way he would lag behind his twin.

My heart continues to ache for you and your family. I can only imagine how upsetting it must be to read some of this crap. Please know that we truly care for you and your family. All speculation aside Pittsburgh has a great cycling community and we are here for you.

ericf

2013-04-29 04:46:54

Hello everyone, I'm a resident of Point Breeze. I'm an active biker like all of you, along with being an active runner and a pedestrian who takes advantage of living in a beautiful walkable neighborhood. I live within 100 yards of all three of the biking tragedies that have taken place in less than a year. I also have a beautiful 7 month old baby boy who I walk daily in his stroller. First, my deepest sympathies to the family. It appears that the mother is posting here, and on behalf of my family, I would like to state, if there is anything we can do to help out, please let me know. I saw someone else say that if this were their child, they would be in jail. I'd be joining whoever said that. After reading a few of the posts, I'm guessing, as I predicted, no charges have been filed. The day after this happened, I was walking my baby along South Braddock, and as I was properly waiting to use a crosswalk, a typical Pittsburgh driver pulls up and ignores the crosswalk, looks right, looks left then "OH, SORRY, DIDN'T SEE YOU"......and of course they didn't, because THEY WEREN'T LOOKING. If I had a dollar for every time I had someone mouth or say to me that they didn't see me, I'd be pretty darn ritch. I've considered myself a cyclist/pedestrian activist since the Stiles case in Mt Lebanon. In that time, I've seen multiple situations where cyclists and or pedestrians have been hit or hit and killed, with little to no punishment. In my common sense mind, a multi thousand vehicle of any kind vs a human being should be a no brainer. But it seems like this country is near anarchy anymore. You literally can get away with murder, can't you? Again, my sympathies to the family, and I look forward to some great conversation with all of you.

eastendresident

2013-05-01 10:11:41

ericf wrote:
furchtbar wrote:Think of the father! I do, he is my husband and my son was hit and there is no way he would lag behind his twin.
My heart continues to ache for you and your family. I can only imagine how upsetting it must be to read some of this crap.Please know that we truly care for you and your family. All speculation aside Pittsburgh has a great cycling community and we are here for you.

ErinK wrote:By the way, I rode through here Saturday morning on my way to the Keg Ride and a woman driving up Lexington totally blew off the stop sign and was halfway through the intersection when I yelled at her and she stopped. That’s the only stop sign in that intersection and she’s driving right through it? I was riding toward the traffic circle so I was heading right where she was driving. I don’t think the cycling community’s outrage is enough to change drivers’ behavior but a few police blitzes ticketing folks who drive this way could make a big difference. Who has pull with the police around here?

furchtbar wrote:“Everyone fails to mention that the driver stopped to let the dad and daughter go across and the boy was no where near them. I question why the father didn’t wait for his other child before waving thank you to the driver. How many times has it happened that kids ran out in front of cars and gotten hit. ” You could ask the sister of the boy who got hit if he was “on her wheel” TdF style. Or ask the father, who made EYE CONTACT, with the driver and did not “wave her on.”Speculating nincompoop. Raising issues is good, speaking falsely about facts you know nothing about us irresponsible and could be hurtful.Think of the father! I do, he is my husband and my son was hit and there is no way he would lag behind his twin.

I agree. This person will continue to drive careless, just like the rest of the population, because there is no enformcent and/or punishment

eastendresident

2013-05-01 10:15:22

“Everyone fails to mention that the driver stopped to let the dad and daughter go across and the boy was no where near them. I question why the father didn’t wait for his other child before waving thank you to the driver. How many times has it happened that kids ran out in front of cars and gotten hit. ” REALLY??? I am not sure why it continues to shock me when I hear outrageously ignorant comments, but it does. I know this family, and you would have a hard time finding more attentive loving parents. They make every effort to provide the type of emotionally strong, intellectually stimulating, physically fit, and ecologically sound environment every child should be entitled to. Keep in mind that a child, A CHILD was nearly killed while engaging in a healthy fun activity with his family...he is hurt badly. This little boys sister and father had to see it happen, and his mother is in the type of emotional pain that I hate to even imagine. To blame his dad is absurd and disgusting, I am appalled! People really need to be more aware of their surroundings and attentive to the people around them, watch where you are going people, seriously! The best day will be the day this lil guy can get back on his bike and ride again with his family!

lilyiris

2013-05-03 22:09:08

BUMP May 15th - Pittsburgh Bike Ride of Silence What: The Pittsburgh arm of the worldwide Ride Of Silence™ bike rally. See http://rideofsilence.org When: Wednesday, May 15, 7:00 PM. Gather at 6:45 PM (evening) · Ride rain or shine – if it’s important, let’s do it. · Check the WPW website (www.wpwbikeclub.org) for any last minute messages Start location: Oakland - Schenley Plaza (next to Carnegie Library) Base route is 11 miles – Fifth to Penn Ave, right out Penn to Wilkinsburg, loop around the block in Wilkinsburg to reverse direction, Penn Ave to Main St in Bloomfield (just past Children’s Hospital), over the Bloomfield Bridge, left on Bigelow Blvd to start. Route is documented here: http://ridewithgps.com/routes/1604145. -Why attend? • to honor those cyclists injured or killed on public roadways • to raise awareness of cyclists on the road • to demonstrate responsible road sharing • to show that cyclists are not going away Personally, I'll be attending to honor Ian and his family, but also for all the reasons above. If you can, please be there! https://www.facebook.com/events/328632897239935/

bikeygirl

2013-05-06 11:24:26

BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Bikers Hit at Reynolds and S. Lexington