BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

yeah, riding in the buslane is illegal.

however, many people, especially students do this, because it is often the shortest, or safest way to get around oakland. i'm not endorsing the behavior, just recognizing the reality of the situation.

which way is the sign pointed? like you see it if you are riding away from town or toward town?

Nope. People ride in the bus lanes in Oakland all the time, and while safe if there isn't a bus coming your way is not legal. People have been known to be ticketed for riding in those lanes.

yeah, usually the only ones enforcing it are bus drivers that think they can play cop, judge, and sometimes executioner

I forget which way it's pointed. I'll check next I swing by it, and take a photo if I can. It's a sign that's always baffled me, cause I figured riding in the bus lane had to be illegal.

I've been living and riding in Oakland for 5 years, and I have yet to find a reason to ride in the bus lane. It makes me cringe when I see people doing it.

I can definitely see how it could be the shortest route, but I can't see how it is the safest. It's not hard to jump a block down to Forbes.

think of a pitt student who is going from the public health building to say langley hall.

the proper way: Bouquet St, left on Forbes, left on Bellefield, left on Fifth, cross four lanes to Langley.

the shortest and most likely safer way: Fifth Ave buslane to Langley.

The bus lane also makes a lot of quick one-block-travels really easy when you're going the wrong way (against fifth cars). Like if you're coming down Thackeray and trying to get to the Cathedral, a trip I used to make a lot. As long as no buses are in sight, I hardly see why not.

But I didn't mean for this to be a discussion about whether or not it's good to do. Everyone's got their own ideas there. I'm just curious about that bike route sign. Again, I'll get a photo when I can.

Another spot where it makes a lot of sense is coming from the Birmingham Bridge to Oakland. There is really no good way to get to the southwestern part of Oakland from the South Side, save climbing Bates, which is rife with its own problems.

Hah, that was me last week. I was trying to get home (E. Liberty) from uptown via oakland, and cut over from forbes too soon on McKee or some such instead of Bouquet, saw the hill and decided to continue down the bus lane only to fight bus traffic and feel pretty silly in the mean time.

Never again!

I have always wondered about the Birmingham bridge issue. Could you take the exit down to forbes and then go up forbes?

one could...but it's putting yourself into a death trap.

i recommend going to fifth, then taking the sidewalk up to craft.

it's such a sore issue, i wish i could say "do this" instead of "you could....but"

it's one of the things that gets my blood boiling

I always take the bridge to the end and ride up the sidewalk on 5th, then cut down to Forbes at Craft. You certainly could take the exit down to Forbes but that does not seem like a pleasant place to ride.

@netviln you can take the sidewalk on 5th next to the bus lane from the birmingham bridge to craft. less than ideal but can be a fun exercise of sidewalk weavery.

hehe

it's unanimous then

well tell that to the people who park on the sidewalk. and dpw when it comes time to clear the sidewalk.

Just to be certain that the message is clear.

IT IS ILLEGAL TO RIDE A BICYCLE IN THE BUS LANES.

(Sorry, I was paid to be the messenger on that one.....)

i would also like to say that it is illegal to drive more than 35 on bigelow blvd to town.

I ride in the bus lane all the time. It's not legal, but it is safe. Just make sure you're going faster than the buses.

Also, can we please quit recommending that people ride on the sidewalks? It's illegal in "business districts" (whatever that means) and it's annoying absolutely anywhere. I'm sick of having to leap into a yard because some grown-ass man is scared to ride in the street on fifth, but feels perfectly comfortable clipping pedestrians and whizzing past blind alleyways/driveways at 15 mph on the sidewalk.

If you're riding more than a block on the sidewalk, you need to find a new route. If you're riding on the sidewalk and going appreciably faster than pedestrians you are officially a jerk.

the sidewalk up fifth is as wide as, if not wider than the southside trail, and is not in a business district.

the legality and safety of riding on the sidewalk, vs riding in the buslane from the birmingham bridge up to craft? sorry, i'll take the sidewalk.

i live at the bottom of fifth, right by the birmingham bridge. sometimes i ride to oakland several times a day this way. often, i'll get passed by 2-5 buses on the way up. if i'm in the buslane, they all honk or breeze past me within inches. it's a busy day if i pass 2 pedestrians over the course of the same section. i've never even made one step aside or change their pace

just out of curiosity, if it was called the "Fifth Ave Shared-use Path" would you feel the same way?

the sidewalk on the smithfield st bridge and ft duquesne bridge is marked as "shared-use" and it is much much narrower

think of a pitt student who is going from the public health building to say langley hall.

the proper way: Bouquet St, left on Forbes, left on Bellefield, left on Fifth, cross four lanes to Langley.

the shortest and most likely safer way: Fifth Ave buslane to Langley.

O'Hara St?

@erok I knew as soon as I made an absolutist statement someone would find an exception. Yes, on the portion of fifth closer to the Birmingham bridge I think sidewalk riding is more reasonable, but the OP was talking about the section of fifth by the Cathedral of Learning. There the sidewalk is still wide, but it’s also packed with pedestrians.

Even more annoying is the section of fifth through squirrel hill. There the sidewalk is your typical residential-area narrow, cars are traveling fast and uncomfortably close to the sidewalk, and there’s a constant stream of mountain-bike riding Pitt kids who show no respect for pedestrians.

Like I said before, if you must ride on the sidewalk, at least show pedestrians some respect. Don’t blow past them at 3 times their walking speed, don’t try to pass them in places where the sidewalk narrows even further because of hedges, trees, or those ridiculously big yellow traffic signal boxes (What’s with those things anyway? All the circuitry needed to operate the traffic signals could fit in a box the size of a pocket calculator. I suspect the traffic light computers composed of vacuum tubes and reel to reel tape drives).

As for your shared use path question, yes, I’d find rude cyclist on pedestrian behaviors less objectionable there because pedestrians on such a path are on notice that bikes are to be expected there and are assuming the risk. On a shared use path I’d also argue pedestrians have a stronger obligation to make way for cyclists. On a regular sidewalk I don’t think a pedestrian should ever feel any pressure beyond politeness to inconvenience themselves to make way for a cyclist, just as on a street I don’t think a cyclist should feel any pressure beyond politeness to inconvenience themselves to make way for a car.

thanks for answering my question. it's an idea that's kinda being tossed around, at least a tiny bit, and i'm genuinely interested in what others thought.

the sidewalk talk was brought up because someone asked about what to do from the Birmingham bridge to oakland.

EROK: think of a pitt student who is going from the public health building to say langley hall.

EROK: the proper way: Bouquet St, left on Forbes, left on Bellefield, left on Fifth, cross four lanes to Langley.

EROK: the shortest and most likely safer way: Fifth Ave buslane to Langley.

ndromb: O'Hara St?

That is strictly true.

I used to go from the Childrens' Hospital garage, to Bellefield Towers a lot and to Langely occasionally. (I used to park at Public health near O'Hara, but someone kept vandalizing my bike there. Watch out for the homeless guy on a bike in Oakland. Really. You might think a bike is a cool thing for a poor person, and it is, but my experience has been frightening.)

I dont' block buses on the busway even though I ride it every day. If I'm going up from the Birmingham Bridge and a bus comes, I stay in the busway until I'm sure the driver sees me - then I get on the sidewalk. I want those guys to see me geting out of their way in a timely fashion.

Up by the old Children's, if I had to go east on Fifth and there were buses, I would walk my bike on the sidewalk. PIA, because in the main section of Oakland, I can go much faster than a bus - but I can't really pass one.

I might try forgoing the bus lane. I guess the appropriate thing with be to call 311 every time there are cars parked on the sidewalk around Birmingham? (every day at the used car lot - that guy is making money from your sidewalk.) I'm guessing 911 would be too much.

Making that sidwalk a shared bike/ped path (but not shared with parked cars) would be a wonderful thing. It still needs some repair.

Mick

"Another spot where it makes a lot of sense is coming from the Birmingham Bridge to Oakland. There is really no good way to get to the southwestern part of Oakland from the South Side, save climbing Bates, which is rife with its own problems. "

What are yinz talkin about? The best way to get to Oakland from B. bridge is to take the forbes exit, hop on to the sidewalk to the far right, cross over the on-ramp, ride up the sidewalk of Forbes, and then hop on Forbes @ Craft. No-one really uses that stretch of sidewalk and it is a much gentler climb though you do have to get off the horse once or twice.

Any serious discussion about (legally) using the bus lane in Oakland will meet the same fate as trying to (legally) use the Wabash Tunnel. Maybe we can have that serious discussion with the Port Authority, but cyclists doing truly stupid things like riding *against* bus traffic will serve only to piss them off. Ditto trying to *pass* a bus in the bus lane by riding against westbound Fifth traffic.

That said, I'm with Mick, I think, on using the bus lane uphill from the BB.

I think this is the Bike Lane sign in question, via Google Street View. The arrow points toward downtown, so it doesn't refer to the bus lane.

I'm disheartened to read that the used car lot by the Birmingham Bridge is still such a problem. My impression was that the situation there had improved over the last year or so.

I don't find it surprising that the used car lot is still parking on the side. They are unlikely to change their behavior without pressure. It is "official" that we can use the sidewalk. It says so on the map. What we need is a "shared sidewalk" sign.

I would also recommend using http://pittsburgh.mybikelane.com/ Embarrass them, or at least document all their violations. Perhaps a record of them continuously parking on the sidewalk can be the evidence necessary to get a sign put up and city enforcement.

Report them as abandoned cars:

http://www.city.pittsburgh.pa.us/police/html/tow_pound.html

Erok, I haven't ridden on the 5th Avenue sidewalk and given the choice, probably wouldn't. When going downtown from Oakland, I usually ride right down 5th Avenue and return via the Jail Trail. I used to always then go to the Panther Hollow trail but compared to a straight shot up Bates Street it turns out that adds around an extra mile. But, in response to your question, if it were the "Fifth Ave Shared-use Path" I'd definitely consider using that.

I once came over the Birmingham Bridge towards Oakland by the book--going on Forbes. That wasn't so bad, but there's a merge point somewhere up towards Oakland--presumably cars coming off I-376 still going interstate speeds--which was harrowing, and this was late at night--I shudder to think of doing this at rush hour.

Going from Public Health to Langley, what about taking O'Hara Street? Even with the hill I'd say it's less hassle than going down and around on Forbes, and really unless you're in a super hurry walking would even be a pretty good solution. The "fences" along a lot of the bus lane make me wary of being able to hop out of a bus's way if one comes along.

Kordite, you're doing a great job on documenting the mybikelane.com violators.

> Kordite, you're doing a great job on documenting

> the mybikelane.com violators.

Now there are a lot more bike lanes in Pittsburgh then there used to be and my commute only rarely takes me onto any of them. We need a lot more eyes and cameras out there making sure people are respecting out space.

I realize this is OT but I've always wondered what the point of the stop signs are on the 5th ave bus lane? There are one or two kind of in the middle of nowhere - no bus stop, no intersection, no crosswalk, the railing is there to prevent jaywalking.... anyone know?

always wondered what the point of the stop signs are on the 5th ave bus lane?

I've wondered that myself. The best answer I came up with in my head is bus pacing. If the bus has to make those stops, it slows it down a bit and prevents crowding at the lights. But it's just a theory.

re: birmingham bridge to oakland, i usually take forbes since it's the safest street to get through oakland in that direction anyway. i personally don't like mixing with buses, especially when i know they'll likely be coming from behind me (where i'm not looking 100% of the time). i really don't see how that is considered less dangerous to some.

yes, the exit ramp is there before you go under the blvd, but it is now well lit at the crosswalk and visibility is much better than it used to be. just cross to the right as quickly as you can near the crosswalk and then take your lane as you go up the hill. they will go around.

re: used car lot. it has gotten better. it used to be all day every day. now it's once in a while, and it could be them just staging a car to shuffle them in the lot, and not displaying them. i'll let them slide on that one.

I thikn the stop signs on the Bus lane in Oakland are designed to get the buses to occasionally slow down to the 15 mph speed limit.

They acheive this.

Sometimes.

Mick

I haven't done this myself since the intersection was finished so it's partly speculative, but if you take Forbes from the Birmingham bridge, it looks like it would be possible to enter Ophelia street--something cars can no longer do--between the "barriers" (orange sticks) they placed there. Then you bike up the hill to Craft and cross on Craft to Forbes. It would allow you to skip the hill and all the traffic coming down from the Blvd and merging across.

Yes, you can get on Ophelia street no problem.

Traffic on Forbes where the paarkway exits to it is a 60+ mph hazard.

Just a little update on Fifth Avenue--I rode down Fifth toward the bridge today at 1:00 PM, and the dealer had NO cars on the sidewalk. But...the city is replacing at least part of the sidewalk near the bridge, and it is completely impassable (with no signs indicating such). So, if you're going to do the bridge-to-sidewalk method of getting to Oakland, you will have to take the bus lane, at least for 50 feet.

Does anyone know if they plan on "beautifying" the entire stretch of sidewalk? Sure the corners at the bridge will look great, but what about the sidewalks extending in both directions?

Steven: I think this is the Bike Lane sign in question, via Google Street View. The arrow points toward downtown, so it doesn't refer to the bus lane.

Thanks for finding that; I haven't been remembering to take my digital camera along.

I see what you're saying. Am I at least not alone in having been confused by that sign, though? It is RIGHT at the bus lane.

Update on fifth. Used car lot had an SUV parked on the sidewalk on my ride home from volunteer night. Also, only one impassable construction area remains, the rest have been repaired.