BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

You just have to get used to them... For anything but road riding or mountain biking through, as in for cruising around, I'd get something you can wear real shoes with though.

Well, like I said, I thought I was "used" to them, but one second of not paying attention and... plop. Just not worth the aggravation IMHO.

FWIW, I've done thousands of miles with platforms and maybe 500 this summer with clipless (I've dabbled with them in the past but always went back pretty quickly). So maybe it's just the law of primacy biting me in the... knee.

I don't think clipless is for everyone.I'm an experienced bike rider and never ever got used to them.I also tried using clipless last summer(2008), and fell over a number of times when I couldn't free my feet as I slowed down.I agree with Salty and went back to regular pedals.

Since I have had my clipless, I have spilled twice and once was the first day I got them. I have come to keep mine pretty much as loose as they will allow tho. I also found them easier to get out of when I went to multidirectional release cleats.

I agree they arent for everyone, but to me it sounds almost like if you are having that much problem with them, they arent quite setup right, whether it be cleat angle or tension.

to each his own i guess, people think i'm weird for running clipless on my fixed gear, but i feel the same way about toe cages that you guys feel about clipless. except that my problem is the exact opposite. i can never get back into the cages if i need to put my foot down for whatever reason. it would help if i wasnt commuting fixed, but i just said the hell with it and put one of my old sets of xc pedals on my commuter instead.

i have been riding clipless for over a decade now (holy crap, am i actually getting that old?) so i'm plenty used to clipping out and i can afford to keep them super tight which helps with the accidental unclips while braking. personally i prefer the super tight xc clips because they give me the control of cages with the ease of platforms. i think i have fallen once in the last 9 or 10 years and that was on a winter mtb ride when my foot was iced and snowed into the cleat and i didnt realize it until i came to a stop and tried to unclip.

netviln - i may give the multi-release cleats a shot before i give up on them entirely.

i've only fallen 3-4 times and always it's the same story, i get distracted by something else and fall to the left as i try in vain to yank my foot straight off the pedal. it's not an adjustment problem - i've never had them fail to release provided i remember to twist my foot. i thought doing that would become second nature in time, and to a large extent it has, but it's obviously not 100%.

the fact i always seem to fall to the left bugs me because it means falling into traffic - that happened to me twice but thankfully no cars were coming. prior to using SPDs i had NEVER fallen on my bike while "touring". so, i'm getting the feeling they are just not for me.

i think i've fallen a total of 3 times on my spds. once was last year around this time, when i was out with my gf who was just learning how to ride about the city on a bike, and we were turning right, and she didn't know, and i fell over before i could unclip rather than bump into her.

another time it was in the winter, and i lost my front tire in the snow (120 psi 23 mm, no studs. not good), and i just went down too fast.

i'm adding a third time in that i don't remember, just for good measure.

at any rate, i've ridden with clips for over five years now, and clipless was pretty much no transition at all, aside from learning how to clip in and clip out. each fall has been easily attributed to other circumstances. and at very low speeds. and not very painful. and the benefit of pulling up on the pedal going up, say, sycamore, has been immense, and i wouldn't give it up for the few times i've toppled. add to that the ability to spin with no effort spent keeping your feet on the pedals, and it's just a no-brainer. i keep my spds on my everything bike, and they won't be coming off any time soon.

Netviln I agree they arent for everyone, but to me it sounds almost like if you are having that much problem with them, they arent quite setup right, whether it be cleat angle or tension

Don't know about Salty, but seems likely for me.

The price of experiment is high - money, aggravation, and - most important - extra falls.

Setup doesn't work for me: Is it the gear? Or the adjustment?

And in the end, I STILL might decide I like platforms.

If I knew someone with a good setup, with shoes and a bike that fit me, I still might be sold on cleats, I suppose.

I'm a hundred-dollars-of-groceries rider. A hundred-mile rider would be different.

Mick

I have SPD pedals on my fixed bike. I can't ride with out them. I think I have more falls with a shoe getting stuck in toe clip/straps than clipless.

I do agree that set-up is what matters. I think it took about a week of solid riding to get everything right, but now I almost always ride clipless. I can't tell you how many times people have thought I was wearing old-man orthopedic shoes to the bar.

In these threads, those that ride "clipless" (i.e. clipped in) almost always oppose them to toe clips. Those that do not ride with cleats almost always oppose them to platforms.

I have SPD pedals on my fixed bike. I can't ride with out them. I think I have more falls with a shoe getting stuck in toe clip/straps than clipless.

I had clipless pedals on my fixed when I first put it on the road but I fell over so many times I figured I should try clips. Still falling over. Haven't quite figured out how to ride a fixie and have the wheel flopped to the free side at the moment. It seems that most of the people I see on fixies are using clips?

"In these threads, those that ride "clipless" (i.e. clipped in) almost always oppose them to toe clips. Those that do not ride with cleats almost always oppose them to platforms."

thats because platforms and fixed gear are a bad combo. when i had a single speed commuter i ran platforms in the winter but still preferred my clipless on the road. my platforms are for freeride and downhill, and ray's,

thats because platforms and fixed gear are a bad combo.

Why? I ran platforms on a fixed gear for awhile and never really had any issues. I wouldn't wear flip flops with platforms on a fixed, for sure. Running clips or clipless does, however, let you relax a bit more, as your feet won't disengage from the pedals.

Upon reading this explanation, I've realized that I've never ridden a fixie.

Sometimes the extent of my ignorance astonishes even me.

Mick

i tried riding clipless for a good month and couldnt get the hang of it, at least not in the city. fell over once in front of some cars at a light and that was it for me. i still use them occasionally on longer road rides in the country or on bike paths though.

With clipless you HAVE to start out with them adjusted out as loose as possible, and as your feet get used to them, gradually tweek the adjustment down. Have a friendly mechanic show you how to do this if you have to. And I don't think a month is enough to get the hang of it, really.

I've ridden with toe clips/straps for decades, I have one short wheelbase bike with these, and still sometimes nearly dump it at low speed when a clip overlaps the front wheel.

And I've ridden on platforms, and nearly taken out the boys when jamming on the pedals and having a foot slip off.

But as far as I'm concerned, the benefits of clipless far outweigh the other setups.

I just realized I've been riding clipless for 15 years.

I really like my Power Grip straps.

http://powergrips.mrpbike.com/

I found out about them from another post on this site.

+1 on the power grips - also from a previous post on this site.

! just figured this out - I've been riding bikes 42 years.

Schwinn rubber platforms - 6 years

Toe clips/straps - 21 years

clipless - 15 years

Though not exclusive, still using all setups, depending.

My son is 13 and he's running toe clips on the road bike, 2 years, old school.

Ok Iam the newbee here please explain something to me. When you are talking clipless - does that you are or not using cleats. I have decieded to put up the cleats for the time being till I get use to the new bike. My inexperiance and the matching knees from falling trying to get the hang of cleats are some what overwhelming. A friend told me I should learn it all at once but it is not second nature for me and they have been riding over 20 years and it is a piece of cake for them. I am not the most graceful person.

RarSwampCollie,

"Clipless" almost always means cleats. Ironic because you clip your feet into the cleat holders, but it comes from the old foot holders being called toe clips.

On this board, there is a pretty good tolerance to different views on this kind of issue. People here have a good awareness that there are different ways to use of bikes.

Not always the case. My brother, for example, will start screaming and his face will turn purple if I am fool enough to discuss the advantages of platform pedals near him.

If you want to race? You need cleats.

If you want to ride 350 miles in a weekend? You would be advised to use them.

If you can't imagine going for a ride with someone without, at some point, it being a contest of who is faster? You want cleats.

You want to tool around town and learn how to deal with traffic? I say platform. I think most people here (even those that are advocating cleats for their own use) would agree with me.

Good luck.

Mick

If you want to ride 350 miles in a weekend? You would be advised to use them.

I got a chuckle out of this.

As I've mentioned elsewhere on this forum, in September I did a roughly 270 mile/8 day trip across Wales. (With us getting lost it was closer to 300.)

The trip was awesome. Not 350 in a weekend, but it was an intense trip, and my first multi-day ride.

Before I left I kept getting advice to go clipless for the trip. I resisted simply because I didn't do a trip like that *and* be getting used to clipless at the same time. (And the words "nuts", "crazy" and "stupid" did get bandied about...)

On the fourth day, I woke up with serious bruising across the arch of my foot. Not only did I not go clipless, but I was also using plain old cross-trainers that were worn out well before the ride started.

So in Dolgellau (the next big town) we stopped off at the sole cycling shop and got some cycling shoes for me. The proprietor (a really nice guy) tried to convince me to get some pedals as well, even offered me a discount. But again, I resisted for the same reason.

At the end of the trip, the more experienced cyclist I was with (actually my sister) again urged me to switch to clipless, saying that I'd be in a whole other league as a cyclist if I did.

As soon as I got back to the US, I got some pedals and headed out. In that time, I've fallen twice: once the first time I got on the bike and the second time at S Neville & 5th as I tried to get past a car that was over too far. (Scraped the curb and fell.)

Now I can't imagine riding without them, even if I'm just heading down to the grocery store. Not sure I'm in a "whole other league," but I definitely notice a difference.

I really start to miss being without them when I am climbing a hill.

Well, despite all my whining, I can't bring myself to get rid of them - and I've been riding a ton since I posted since I have the week off and it's been nice out.

I have this sneaking feeling that if I try to go back, I'm going to discover I don't like platforms anymore (with or without toe clips) and then my situation will be completely hopeless.... It's not supposed to be this complicated, right?

Thank you. I really think I need to learn them, since my goal is go to on long rides. But first I think I need to get use to the new road bike. Going from my 35 year old schwinn to my new very wonderful trek madone is a whole different world. The quick and ease of the new bike is a whole new world to me. Kinda like going from the ford escort to the cobra GT. I may have purchased a bike way above my level but it gives me growing room.

Kinda like going from the ford escort to the cobra GT.

Interesting venue in which to use an automotive metaphor.

the one tour i've done with clipless, a screw broke in the pedal somewhere in ohio and i couldn't clip in. fortunately, or maybe unfortunately, they were the kind that were flat on the other side, so the one interface on that pedal broke. so, i just decided to ride on the flat side. i don't think i've added anything to this discussion except to just decide and not use the mixed pedal on a tour. i've used only flat pedals (with toe clips) on every subsequent tour.

"Why? I ran platforms on a fixed gear for awhile and never really had any issues. I wouldn't wear flip flops with platforms on a fixed, for sure. Running clips or clipless does, however, let you relax a bit more, as your feet won't disengage from the pedals."

its a bad idea 'cause i don't have a rear brake on my fixie. i've tried stopping a fixed gear w/out brake on platforms before, no thank you.

Fair enough. I should probably add that no foot retention + no brakes + fixie = bad.

Nobody really rides their fixie without brakes, right?

I see this turning into another brakeless fixed gear thread.

Kinda like going from the ford escort to the cobra GT.

I would say a the difference between a 70's Schwinn and a Madone is more like the difference between a V6 Mustang and a Lotus Exige.

I see this turning into another brakeless fixed gear thread.

Is that better or worse than the common, garden variety helmet flame war?

I would say a the difference between a 70's Schwinn and a Madone is more like the difference between a V6 Mustang and a Lotus Exige.

The weight difference would be more like a 1960s Ford Galaxy compared to the Lotus.

Well I must say loading the Carbon Madone in the 150 or on the bike rack to the 70's schwinn is so much easier. Whole new world that I rather like...

It was work the $$$$ spent on the bike. (Did I say that?)

"cleats" are these old things that nobody younger than me has ever used. You used to nail them to the bottom of your shoe, and in conjunction with toe clips and straps, you got a solid high-efficiency union with your pedal. And you learned how to track-stand.

Then the ski-binding people figured they could extend their technology to bikes, and they invented quick-release pedal bindings, just like quick-release ski bindings. They called these "clipless" for the reasons above. Some people I know prefer the terminology "pedal binding" because they think it's less confusing.

The only good argument in favor of platform pedals that I can think of anymore is needing to wear "decent" shoes to some event. And that's just because I can't find any RaceVogs in my size I have a pair, they're just too small.

(whoa, brain flash -- I have a Dremel tool, and a pair of Doc Marten Oxfords. I just need a steel plate to screw cleats to...)

How are you, Lyle? My first pair of cycling shoes (~1989) had these very sort of cleats.

Mine weren't nailed to the bottom, though.

Steel insoles, perhaps?

In my waning goth-boi-wannabee phase a few years back, I was contemplating a pair of said insoles so that my Docs could go SPD-compatible.

@lyle--I had those cleats too. Nailed into a pair of size 42 detto pietro's the kind with the big round holes in the uppers. That was my first pair of cycling shoes, would have been around 1979 or so. You rode the shoes for a while without the cleats so you got a line on the sole and then lined the cleat up with that. Good times, esp. if you fell over and wrenched your knee because you hadn't quite figured out the trackstand yet.

"Decent shoes?" My Sidi's cost way more than any other pair of shoes I've ever bought.

In my waning goth-boi-wannabee phase a few years back...

Pictures?

The only good argument in favor of platform pedals that I can think of anymore is needing to wear "decent" shoes to some event.

The "Only good argument"?

Cost?

Safety? (Falling is a safety issue.)

Comfort?

Repetitive motion injuries?

The efficiency gained with clipless is not much of an argument in my book.

Is there some other argument for using them? Maybe fashion or something?

Mick

I love clipless. I love platforms. I hate toe clips. I can tolerate power-grips.

I messed up my knee in 1988 (meniscus tear), and uncontrolled falls or lateral knee movements might snap what little tendon I have left. No way in hell I'm *ever* going to even *try* clipless. Meanwhile I can pedal away all day on the bike and ride the unicycle with impunity.

i love the toe clip/strap combo.

Is there some other argument for using them? Maybe fashion or something?

Sorta tied to efficiency, but, they can be pretty useful on a mountain bike. And I'd really hate to be banging elbows with someone in a sprint on platforms.

In my waning goth-boi-wannabee phase a few years back...

Pictures?

I sincerely hope not.

Back to the clipless thing...I use 'em on my upright and my 'bent, and find that they are significantly more useful (to me, at least) on the 'bent.

On the upright, the only time I find that I really appreciate being clipped in is when I'm playing in traffic at decent speed or jumping up and down on the pedals as I grunt up the hill.

On the 'bent, they make an enormous difference in terms of comfort over longer distances, as you don't need to worry about holding your legs up to keep them engaged on the pedals.

That said, in both cases, I ride single-sided pedals (Shimano M525s and A530s), and do find myself flipping around to the flat side and riding non-clipped-in on a regular basis.

I've used the platform/SPD combo for about 3 years. If I'm going to run some errands, I'll wear sneakers and use the platform side. But if I'm going to ride just to ride (without any real destination), I'll put on the shoes and clip in, and I can definitely notice the extra power--it's similar to raising the seat post when it's slipped down, and it feels like I get 20 percent more efficiency. (My particular bike shoes are kind of a pain to get on and off, so I don't use them unless I've got a fairly long ride in mind.)

The efficiency gained with clipless is not much of an argument in my book.

Is there some other argument for using them? Maybe fashion or something?

I mostly commute to work on clipless pedals. I routinely ride 45 to 75 miles at speed in groups on both weekend days as long as the weather allows. I spend hours on the trainer each week when it doesn't. The added efficiency of clipless pedals makes a big difference. You can, IMHO, pedal circles much more effectively on clipless pedals. If you are getting repetitive motion injuries from pedaling on clipless pedals then your bike has setup issues. No one in the group of 10 people I ride with has ever had a problem. I've got at least 20,000 miles of riding clipless pedals over the last four years and have never had a problem with RSI.

For shorter rides, slower rides, it probably

doesn't make as much of a difference. To claim it's all about "fashion" however is belittling.

Of course, it's your bike, ride what you want to ride and enjoy the ride.

reddan, as luck would have it, i found that picture of you before you rode the melancholy dozen race a few years back

That pic was from the Angsta-Gangsta hip-hop/emo themed alleycat in 2004, not the melancholy dozen.

And I never wore a white helmet. Or had women stare at me quite so admiringly.

"The only good argument in favor of platform pedals that I can think of anymore is needing to wear "decent" shoes to some event."

Mick -- "that *I* can think of". YMMV, obviously. Serious knee problems is a good argument. For me, the cost isn't an issue, and the platforms aren't really much cheaper. I do believe that clipless are safer than platforms once you get up the experience curve beyond the point where they aren't. That is, I feel less safe without them, now.

Bjanaszek - younger than you, evidently