BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

perhaps this is what you're looking for:

Cyclist crashing on a Lincoln Log?

That's the sign for rail/trolley tracks (we could use those also around here).

It's close, but no one in Pittsburgh would realize that those dippy little things are supposed to be potholes.

Something a bit more like this:

Needs lava.

Warning, Temple of Doom ahead.

hmm. Something missing there... ah! got it.

But seriously, folks. If anyone can sketch out a good stencil that would be great.

Ideally, it would include a directional element, so that it could be pointed at the actual hazard, not merely indicate potential death ahead.

Just a note, putting down street stencils yourself is considered graffiti and can get you arrested. I'm all for safety warnings, but proceed with caution.

@reddan: I'm assuming a separate arrow stencil which can be oriented as necessary.

@robjdlc: You're probably right. But I'd be willing to get into (a small bit of) trouble if I could parlay it into publicity.

[this is not a legal offer nor an inducement of any kind; that's in the prospectus]:

Imagine you have a bunch of people silly enough to get into this kind of trouble... and they decide to make an outing of it. What if they could somehow leverage it into an issue in the upcoming local election?

I'm certainly not advocating anything, but there is the Urban Repair Squad.

http://urbanrepairs.blogspot.com/

"Russian Bears Dismounting From Bicycle Ahead"?

Where in the wild is edwardm?

Completely supportive of the idea. Legality is "skirtable"; think a work around can be found. More then a decade ago I lived on a small Island in the middle of the Chesapeake and was appalled to find floating fish with cigarette butts embedded in their gills. When I moved to Baltimore observed people flinging their butts out the window like they were throwing them in the trash. Was part of starting a program to stencil "Drains To Bay" on storm grates. Brought idea to Pgh a decade ago, which has caught on. http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09281/1003703-55.stm

I'm not positive, but I suspect the local authorities will allow, if not permit, this urban activism. In NY people are paid by a fund established by (personal injury) lawyers to document and maintain a database of bad sidewalks, potholes, and whatnot for suits against the city. Given that's a logical and really attractive next step, (though of course it's not appealing to the City), perhaps "the powers that be" could be persuaded to permit these warnings?

Ahlir: A bunch of folks last year in nyc tried laying their own bike lanes and got arrested. Its also why bike-pgh cant just hire people to put up bike friendly signs - all of these things have to be signed off and done by the city.

http://urbanrepairs.blogspot.com/ is cute but a little light on technical details.

Hm... I see that Krylon sells the right kind of paint, in 5 gal pails (though only in white and yellow). That might be enough for my immediate neighborhood, I think. 3-M has the kind with embedded glass spheres for reflectiveness (but it's more expensive).

@rob: so what do you suggest?

Option A: Buy the paint, make stencils and go nuts with the possible outcome of getting a fine / getting arrested. Immediate satisfaction with potential long term consequences. If you don't get arrested, your paint will wear out after a year.

Option B: Report potholes / dangerous street elements to 311 and spend that time/money working with the lovely folks at bike-pgh and your council members encourage the development and importance of our biking infrastructure and let the city put down the paint and maintain it henceforth.

Blocking access to a broken bridge might be more analogous then painting bike lanes. Some of the "bike traps" here on the northside present a clear and imminent threat to public welfare and safe legal vehicular traffic on our roadways. (We have two foot deep and wide holes with wide grates at the bottom: bike traps. I have one at every corner of my block! Stu documented a few around here, which got me looking.)

Putting out flares or traffic cones or those triangular reflecting thingies to change the traffic flow is illegal, except under exigent circumstance, like if there's a wreck ahead, or the roadway has fallen away in a mudslide or a plane has parked in the middle of the highway, or a sinkhole has opened up.

There is a storm drain on my street that has no grate. This winter it mated with a pothole, so now there is a giant hole in the side of the road. At some point this spring, someone (city? citizen?) stuck a traffic cone in the hole, to keep people from driving into it. The hole expanded a bit, swallowed the entire traffic cone which I'm sure is well on its way to the golf via the Ohio. I reported it to 311 7 or 8 months ago?

I don't see marking potholes and other more permanent hazards as that big of a deal. Just tell whoever stops you that you're working on a volunteer effort for the city. As much as I love supporting the local bike shops, I would have rather not spent over $100 for a new wheel thanks to a giant pothole on a major arterial road, WELL AFTER pothole season ended (though in my case, paint wouldn't have made a difference).

I think I brought this up before somewhere on the board, but it seems relevant to this too. A quick splash of color in a pothole would assist in locating it for cyclists/motorists/city officials rather quickly, I would think.

Then again, with how quickly these things become filled with debris/expand, not sure how much a splash of paint will do, versus this project which has it 'baked in' so to speak.

I am all for some guerilla markings. Especially if it gives enough heads up to realize that it isn't just a puddle coming up, but a rim bender.

rob: why choose? Why not both A and B! Division of labor.

I don't quite see how the two could be mutually exclusive. Seems like a lot of A going on could be a good argument for having the city prioritize B.

In any case, it's not clear to me that A is necessarily a criminal activity. As others are pointing out, it's acceptable to do something "illegal" if the purpose is to save a life or prevent bodily harm. I mean, look, the legislature just voted in the "castle doctrine" which, as near as I can tell, legalizes drive-by shootings (as long as what you're driving is your own car). I find potholes life-threatening. Aren't I allowed to pop a pothole with a simple shot of spray paint?

But on a more serious note, those urbanrepair people (echt hipsters, judging by the looks of their website) seem to need a truck or car to schlep around their guerrilla stencils, paint, rollers, etc. I was trying to think up a more biker-friendly solution, like a roll-up stencil and a can of spray paint. But how do you keep that stencil flat (yeah I know, the pothole is full of rubble). How do you keep the paint mess off yourself and your bike? Also, my wife thinks hot-pink is the right color, since it's not one of the official traffic colors (white, yellow). Do you think that's visible enough? There's also green and orange (which [un?]fortunately is a construction color). Suggestions welcome.

[addendum]

wojty: Just looked at your link. I thought it was going to be that stunt where they stick a flowering plant (or something else cute) into the pothole. Yawn. I did consider simply spray-painting the hole, but potholes themselves are evolving phenomena: they get bigger, things pulverize. Painted gravel just gets strewn about. A warning marker on sound pavement somehow seems more useful. (That said, I have to admit that one of the loveliest sights I glimpsed this past winter was a pothole with a frozen puddle nestled within it! Two of a biker's favorite sights. In one place!)

Chartreuse is rather attention garnering? I'd like something highly reflective, "shiny" even, like a handful of glass microbeads tossed on top of the paint. (This works, I've done it.) Actually I'd fancy little blinkie at every pothole, solar powered and epoxied to the pavement. Easy enough to chip up or cover with asphalt once "they" attend to it. Been playing around with old Sprout Fund green blinkies to that end, but they are fragile and don't last as long as the road hazard and I'm out of broken scrounged solar chips. If only there was a public spirited venue where this idea could be presented for funding....someplace that could, if you will, "kick start" this idea into an action. Oh, well, maybe someday...

(Oh, the blinkies are for you swank folk up on the East End plateau with your dainty little divots. We're going to set gasoline/oil and tire fires in our potholes down here on the northside. We can grill roadkill in the summer and huddle around them in the winter for warmth.)

Ahlir: they don't need to be mutually exclusive, and you can do anything that is illegal, its just illegal. I'm just tossing around the consequences, so the real expense here is obviously money, when you do something illegal you risk having to pay fines and that sort of thing, so if you're capable of absorbing a given expense for doing the illegal thing, you might have to absorb the surprise expense of getting arrested for it.

By the letter of the law, the only thing you're allowed to mark public property with must wash away with the rain, which doesn't do this cause much good.

Like I said, I'm all for having a heads up before my bike gets swallowed by a giant pothole, but I personally can't afford that sort of risk and see my time better spent trying to get legitimate markings on the road.

Theres a thread from last year where we brainstormed the sort of equipment and things we'd need for this.

One of the (many) annoying things about WordPress is their crap search function. Can anyone suggest some useful search terms for the thread that @rob alludes to?

I tried, but all I got was stuff like the guy who peed on his helmet and was wondering if it was still good to wear. Or maybe it was his cat that peed on it. Whatever, I didn't click through...

@fungi: 3-M sells microbeads for $50/gallon. Somewhat incongruously, Martha Stewart also sells them, at $4.98 per 6.4oz. I suspect that 3-M has the better deal (especially with their 20%-off sale, good until the end of May).

On a serious note: I believe the microbeads would need a better substrate, such as, in fact, the one provided by 3-M pavement paint. If I sprinkle them on the pavement, the spray paint will just blow them away. If I sprinkle them afterwards I don't see that there's enough gumminess to hold them. Do you think if I take the 3-M product (in white) down to the Home Depot and ask them to color it up in {pink,green,chartreuse} they would do it? I'd pay extra, of course.

Oooo, where's that thread. At least he didn't pee on his cat and then try to wear it as a helmet?

@robjdlc: I take exception to your unsupported statement that this particular activity would be illegal. There was a crumbling building in Wilkensburg on which someone spray painted "Danger: Falling Debris" or the like. Sure, it's the building owner's responsibility to remedy the situation, but in the time between the onset of the dangerous condition and the solution, it was their civic duty to alert passersby of the danger, was it not? And, as much as you seem inclined to inappropriately qualify this proposal as simple graffiti, that's not the intention of the action at all, is it?

@Ahlir: "Enough" spray paint as a base does bind the wee glass balls. On other occasions I've used a clear spray adhesive to affix the tiny shinys.

I overlooked your post about 3M offering paint with glass balls above. Sorry, I think you posted while I was composing.

Martha does fancy the shinys. They also sell the glass balls in bulk at fabric shops, and last I checked, at WalWhatever too. Doesn't May end in a few hours?

I found these two links from last year that both touch on this subject.

http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/activists-re-paint-stripped-bike-lane-in-nyc

http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/disappearing-penn-avenue-sharrows

@fungicyclist: IANAL, but here's what appears to be applicable PA law

I think Rob's point is important: it does not matter what your intent may be, an overly officious poseel ossifer can very easily make a case that you are someone who "intentionally defaces or otherwise damages tangible public property or tangible property of another with graffiti," per the applicable statutes.

So, be aware of the potential consequences of your actions, no matter how pure your motives.

Dan: nail on head.

I never thought I would see the words "Martha Stewart" referenced on this message board. I think it's possible the rapture did happen. And we're stuck here listening to Ke$ha music.

"Disappeared" bike lanes and worn sharrow markings do not present a clear and imminent threat to my life. Bicycle eating potholes and sunken wide gapped storm grates do. If I've called 311 and written about a specific pothole, and nothing is done by the "powers that be" in a "reasonable" period of time, then I look at it as my civic duty to either fill it in (which may very well be totally illegal) or emblazon it so my friends don't fall into it on their way to visit, and warn fellow pedalcyclists of a serious road hazard. They are essentially land mines. Heck there are so many here I sometimes forget one or two, which is why I always ride my mtb with fat rubber in the rain, (yet still I've almost been unseated and tossed into traffic on occasion).

Hahahah. "Damaging" a pothole, the horror.

@reddan: Familiar with the code on graffiti, but that's not the issue, (though its applicability in this instance is arguable).

I'm suggesting there is probably some squirrelly case law at least requiring, for instance, someone who knows a bridge is out to make a reasonable effort to alert others to the situation. If you see a crime committed and don't report it you are guilty of a crime (something called a felony misdemeanor if I remember correctly). If you see a fellow cyclist heading for a gaping hole and don't at least call out to them, you could be guilty of reckless endangerment, and certainly be held liable in a civil proceeding.

Sure, a gungho cop can charge you with anything. Spitting is illegal. Eating a breath mint on the bus is illegal. Having non-missionary position sex in your own bedroom was illegal in Northern Virginia. Drinking from a "Whites Only" water fountain may still be illegal for persons of colour in South Carolina. The point I'm trying to make is that this is not black and white. It is not "simply illegal" to spray paint "Bridge Out" on a road sign if the bridge is out; it might even be construed as a duty.

The point I'm trying to make is that this is not black and white. It is not "simply illegal" to spray paint "Bridge Out" on a road sign if the bridge is out; it might even be construed as a duty.

No argument here. "Illegal" is not synonymous with "wrong".

I simply wish guerrilla road decorators to be aware of some possible consequences to their actions; I have no need whatsoever to debate the validity of said actions.

Some lawyer show I saw once had a lawyer in a therapy session with a shrink and various cards were strewn across the floor that said "innocent" "good" "legal" "ethical" and the likes on them. Lawyer says "wait, so none of them are the same?"

Good luck. I think even just a circle around the hazard would do, no need for a fancy stencil. Or if you do, make it a small one you can make out of a rigid material (plexiglass?) rather than roll-up, it will be less fuss and faster in case you are, ahem, observed.

How about a big circle with a line at an angle through it? That's universally known as "No", would be visible, and might even be mistaken for something the City would do. (Maybe with a little bike silhouette above and below or inside, or so it "reads" "No Bicycles" without words?)

If folks were to call 311 and praise the "powers that be" for taking such action, they'd be hard pressed to bring "graffiti" charges and might even incorporate it as a stop-gap interim measure to deal with potholes and other road hazards?

My own preference is for something based on the middle sketch: it uses the rider's legs to suggest the bike's structural elements (stays, fork); less busy.

Notes:

I have a Wacom, so I could probably transfer your freehand sketch to AI (the latter makes it easier for a shop to reproduce).

I'm now thinking that a cart could be used to pull along the necessary kit for proper road painting.

I've seen potholes outlined in orange, I assumed the city did that, perhaps to mark the ones to be patched?

If someone were inclined to do something, that sounds a lot easier than all the logistical problems with using a stencil and probably just as effective. Towing a cart sounds like a fast ticket to getting busted.

Circling the pothole in spray paint doesn't convey the right message. It could mean that the city noticed it... but we'd just be kidding ourselves.

Placing a marker is both a service to bikers, and a deliberate reminder to everyone else that essential municipal services are being systematically degraded.

I've seen potholes outlined in orange, I assumed the city did that, perhaps to mark the ones to be patched?

I know absolutely nothing about that...

Hypothetically speaking, of course, it would be a hell of a lot easier if the city was painting them. If I were to do something like that, not that I would, because vandalizing a pothole is against the law, as cited above, but if I did, I might complain about how much of a pain in the ass it may have been to dodge cars whilst circling a pothole with a can of spray paint.

Kudos dwillen. Said the same to an officer once with my orange hands in my pockets. Now I wear disposable gloves.

I vote for pothole gardens myself.

if this could be made semi permanent (until it was patched, of course)

If you see a crime committed and don't report it you are guilty of a crime (something called a felony misdemeanor if I remember correctly).

That's only true in a few states, I think. For instance, in 2000 California made it a misdemeanor to not report a violent or sex crime against someone 14 years old or younger. Bystanders are otherwise free to ignore crimes. That article mentions that just six other states have similar laws (PA not included).

Here's a more recent article, from 2009: "Misprision of felony is an old common law tradition that makes it illegal not to report a witnessed felony. For various reasons, including the above suspicions, it has disappeared from most jurisdictions."

On the bike trails, pavement issues usually get a white diamond shape spray-painted around them (diamond being the standard shape for warnings). That seems to work fine.

But I don't see how stencils will cause the city to change how it repairs streets. City council is having enough trouble doing that.

Steven: Misprison of felony "has disappeared from most jurisdictions" because it's Federal Law, Title 18, Chapter 1...

Having flags on the minefield may not speed their removal, but it sure helps keep folk from stepping on them.

Interesting. Since it's federal law, though, wouldn't it only apply to crimes that are felonies under federal law? That would exclude traffic-related stuff, wouldn't it?

Also, I see the Wikipedia page on this offense says the federal law "requires active concealment of a known felony rather than merely failing to report it", and cites a 1977 decision to that effect.

Don't know the case law, and it's irrelevant to the accuracy of what was stated: "If you see a crime committed and don't report it you are guilty of a crime..." However the law is, or is not enforced, however it has been interpreted by the latest court decision, as long as it's on the books, one has broken that law by concealing and failing to make known that crime to the proper authorities.

As Misprision of Felony only applies to felonies, I'm not sure it has any applicability to traffic law violations, which are mostly misdemeanors. I suppose an overzealous US DA could make some tenuous argument that since Federal funds supplement the state and local highways, they too fall under Federal purview, and maybe even get some drunk jerk-off Judge to buy that argument, but how does it matter?

(Besides, with the "Patriot Act" there's no need to charge anyone with Misprision of Felony anymore. Hell, there's no need to charge anyone with anything really, just say they made terroristic threats and they can be whisked off to indefinite detention.)

I believe the point was that we have civic duties as citizens, and the Misprision of Felony statute suggests that is a proactive responsibility, however unenforced and unpopular that sentiment may be right now. Also unpopular seems to be "asking not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country", civil disobedience, and highlighting epic numbers of life threatening potholes. Times change?

What about chalk drawings on the street? Where to they rank in terms of things that people can get away with? I imagine a message or two would not take long to write but would definitely be talked about. Nothing profane, but concise and clear.

I'm starting to think that a stencil might be overkill (as well as implying the ability to plan ahead). The alternative would be some easy to draw sign (a couple of strokes?).

in plastic bag. Should fit right into that pannier.

I found some place selling microbeads for $30/50lb (!)

If you got this one, you wouldn't even have to dismount:

Think of how easy it would be to damage those potholes!

NYPD Intelligence Op Targets Dot-Matrix Graffiti Bike

http://www.wired.com/politics/onlinerights/news/2007/04/kinberg_0410.

Ahlir, I support your idea, but be aware of "legal" consequences in Post-911, Post-G20 Pittsburgh.

I've noticed helpful sprayed white borders on some holes and bulges along the asphalt path between station Square and the Terminal Building.

age 7 or 8, was flying downhill, my ass up in the air, face down low near the handle bars, for aeroadynamics you know... hit a pot hole, cracked my front right tooth in half. as if i wasn't ugly enough already.

hate.pot.holes.

@pseudacris: Good article and on point; thanks for sharing. The artist used chalk based tech and was legal in every respect, yet still spent a day of his life in lockup. I'm heartened his life is not ruined and he's been embraced by other social activists, but incredibly saddened that he's not yet recovered his bicycle. They can't find a 7' long bicycle???

I've noticed helpful sprayed white borders on some holes and bulges along the asphalt path between station Square and the Terminal Building.

I've seen these too, and appreciate them. I initially thought they were official "tags" of where Public Works was supposed to follow up, but I remember reading here that they were actually DIY safety markings.

I finally got around to doing something about marking hazards. After thinking about it for a while (and considering posters' comments), I decided on a sign that consists of a "Y" sprayed to delimit the hazard, like the following:

This particular hazard is a dimple in the asphalt that's hard to see but it's actually deep enough to produce a big shudder when you ride through it (or at least with 559x40 tires). It doesn't look like a "pothole", but it's still dangerous if you hit it unawares. You can find it on Dallas, just east of the intersection with Penn.

Here's some marks (tags?) along Hamilton, about two blocks from ELB:

I believe these particular hazards are generally visible and if you travel this stretch you know about them. Nevertheless they are nasty if you happen to ride through them.

And these are the water system access plates on Forbes, next to CMU. Where Nemesis once rode past me...

Here are the details:

-- The Y is easy to spray; three strokes and you're done. This is more convenient than fooling around with stencils or with complex designs.

-- The upper arm angle of the Y is variable and can accommodate the size of the hazard; it seems to work best if it just spans the width of the defect. The lower tail is meant to be a (literally?) heads up warning that a hazard is coming up.

-- The color is magenta. It's generally available but it's not a color used by roads and utility crews [yellow, blue, green, orange]; so it's less likely to interfere with other legitimate markings. The stuff I used is readily available at Lowe's/Home-Depot [Rust-Oleum 'professional' Inverted Marking Paint]. Just be sure you get the version designed for downward spraying (and don't forget to shake the can).

Here's the rationalization:

The authorities that maintain roadways are (at this point in time) primarily focused on the needs of motor vehicles. While the hazards that affect cars are very likely ones that also affect cyclists, there are additional hazards that are dangerous for bikes but that are not hazards for cars. In anticipation of the authorities developing in-house expertise in identifying such hazards, the cycling community can do its part by performing the service of marking hazards. I would be very happy if the roads authority hired some inspector(s) knowledgeable about cyclists' concerns who could ride around the city (perhaps with an emphasis on major commuting routes) and identify critical hazards that need to be eliminated. And then have the roads authority act on it.

Finally, here's my favorite hole-in-the-street (from that same stretch of Dallas):



Proving that even a lowly Pittsburgh street has the power to create art, on its own.

I like that, seems very clear to a cyclist. The color is a good choice. I believe I know which aisle to find it in at Home Depot.

(I didn't read the whole thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned.)

Not saying I ever did graffiti (eh hem). But... Dress up like a worker. Orange reflective vest, etc. And work when you've seen other worker's work, and get a feel for the patrol beat of the area you'll be working in. This isn't like bombing a billboard and this kind of graffiti wouldn't get you in much trouble, although you could probably just get it permitted.

Keep in mind, fluorescent paints aren't the most lightfast (will fade in sun over time), so take photos and MAKE the press coverage yourself. Funny how an anonymous, "look someone is trying to help us" post on the Trib's site, etc. will generate enough interest to possibly make something happen.

Just my 2 cents. Be careful, and if I didn't have to keep my nose clean right now, I'd be out there with you. Probably on Penn inbound from East Liberty.

there was a person in pittsburgh in the past that rigged up a trailer on their bike with a triggerable spraycan on it facing down, if they found a particularly challenging set of potholes or other obstacles they would ride it a few times and figure out the smoothest way through, and then ride one last time with the paint can triggered leaving a path... seems like a good solution to the same problem, or at least a nice addition to the current solution... here are the potholes and this is a good way to navigate them

^this.

hmm... a la Protractor Art, I could see how talking to the Trib could get the attention of almost the right people in a very wrong way, if not... finessed carefully.

thank you for your work Ahlir!

@ejwme: Any of *this* could go wrong. Been there, done that.

just advocating learning from recent past and proceding with extreme caution... though I do admit at times I'm paralyzed by an obsessive need to completely analyze all the "what ifs" before acting. luckily Ahlir is braver than I am - I hope he's craftier too!

good work. i saw the markings by cmu on my way into work today. it looked official, and i wondered if someone official had noticed. this is the next best thing.

humblesage is spot on. The amount of things I have 'gotten away with' while wearing a reflective vest makes me feel like it's the best type of camo out there.

IIRC Ahlir was seriously hurt after hitting those water line access boxes by CMU, and couldn't ride for several weeks.

If there was a road hazard that caused cars to wreck, that road would be shut down in an hour and kept shut down until the repairs were made. By comparison, a stripe of paint that makes the road safer is a good thing.

Putting on my anarchist cap again, I'd say general public safety trumps the law, in this case. Maybe the law is wrong. Or we are simply ahead of the law, doing the right thing *before* it's legal. Or maybe this is another "no good deed goes unpunished" situation.

I'm imagining them sending out crews to whitewash this "graffiti"

Best way to eliminate these unsightly brightly-painted blemishes on our fair city's roadways is to bury 'em under a nice smooth layer of asphalt. IMHO.

"just advocating learning from recent past and proceding with extreme caution... though I do admit at times I'm paralyzed by an obsessive need to completely analyze all the "what ifs" before acting. luckily Ahlir is braver than I am - I hope he's craftier too!"

He seems to be handling it fairly well. Thumbs up from me. I would seriously do this all over the East End (where my current contract is), but I don't think there'd be any street left.

"The amount of things I have 'gotten away with' while wearing a reflective vest makes me feel like it's the best type of camo out there."

Isn't it though? I mean cops even drive right past and wave. But, like I said, not that I've been there.

one of my favorite catalogs, http://www.forestry-suppliers.com/search.asp?stext=vest