BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

« Back to Archive
105

Cyclist hit on West Carson

Does anyone have any info?

it was on the new part.

stefb
2016-08-30 14:41:49
This from Twitter:
Allegheny County ?@Allegheny_Co 6m6 minutes ago PGH: W Carson St. closed from the West End Circle to Corliss St. due to vehicle/bicycle accident. Emergency crews on scene.
BTW, shit. Thanks for the heads-up, stef.
jonawebb
2016-08-30 14:43:23
Fuck. I was just talking to a coworker about riding on this road now that it's open. Hoping for the best...
chrishent
2016-08-30 15:07:01
WESA 2 4:15pm is announcing that the road is closed due to "an accident," but doesn't mention a cyclists.   I hope it's not as serious as it sounds.
marko82
2016-08-30 15:22:47
Well hell, that didn't take long. Open, what, 8 days? Thanks for the support, PennDot.
edmonds59
2016-08-30 15:38:47
WPXI reports "that the bicyclist was taken to a hospital in critical condition."
erok
2016-08-30 16:54:48
From what I read on FB, it's every bit as serious as it sounds, Marko!  The driver did stop, and stayed at the scene, but observers report large amounts of blood and ambulance for the cyclist. Edmonds, glad to see you are safe at a computer.  I hope the rest of the West Hills regulars are also far from this horrible crash site.
swalfoort
2016-08-30 16:56:42
I'm OK too. Haven't left work yet. Will be going through the area on my way home. On my commute through the very first Monday morning it opened, I saw a car crash. Now this. Way to fucking go, PennDOT.
pinky
2016-08-30 17:01:20
KDKA @ 5pm showed a maroon pickup truck with classic smashed passenger side window; bike looked like it had flat bars with a white suspension fork. Both the bicycle and truck were stopped in a wide yellow cross-hashed area where the bus-way enters route 51.  It seems they were headed inbound toward town.
marko82
2016-08-30 17:06:55
Thanks Sara, yeah I'm good. Desperately hoping this wasn't the day Stu decided to give this route a go. On the first day this was open, I drove inbound to work, and about halfway between the 'rocks and West End, some complete asshole in some white company pickup was blowing down the center lane, which is designed and painted as a left turn lane, at about 60 mph with no intention of turning, just using it as a fast lane. PennDot needs to be held accountable for every crash and fatality that happens in this corridor due to their shitty, retrograde design [edit; and when I say every, I mean every motor vehicle crash and fatality as well. This is absolutely no safer for motor vehicles than it was before, and that was a large part of their stated mission for this $42 mil bullshit]. They had every opportunity to reconfigure this road in a safer way, they disregarded every recommendation. Short of finding out that the cyclist actually tried to commit suicide by traffic, this is blood on PennDot's hands.
edmonds59
2016-08-30 17:13:44
@marko82, the sidewalk along this road is next to the inbound lane between McKees Rocks and the busway ramp, then switches to the other side at the intersection with the busway. If headed inbound, the cyclist may have been riding on the sidewalk up until that point and then either switch to the other side or merged into the inbound lane. This fucking sucks.    
chrishent
2016-08-30 17:37:05
deleted
vannever
2016-08-30 17:49:36
^
edmonds59
2016-08-30 17:52:31
  For those not familiar  - or for the cyclists' lawyer looking for info - here are links to our discussion on this board of how dangerous the PennDot design of this road is, including some of us sending letters to local politicians.
marko82
2016-08-30 18:07:12
Marko....based on the KDKA website chopper photo the truck was heading outbound (Busway ramp on the left, Ohio River on the right) and the bicycle is ahead of the truck and also in the painted out center lane. Combined with Chrishent's description of the sidewalk arrangement one possible scenario (speculation at this point) is that the bicyclist was also outbound and crossing from the outbound sidewalk to the inbound sidewalk when struck.
offtn
2016-08-30 18:07:14
^thanks for the correction.
marko82
2016-08-30 18:10:10
Can't help but think of the guy I saw riding on the outbound sidewalk yesterday, just before 3 pm...
chrishent
2016-08-30 18:18:01
Pinky!  I thought and thought, and just could not come up with your board name!  So sorry! Glad to know you are ok!  Still hauling your bike up and down the stairs at the bridge!
swalfoort
2016-08-30 21:13:47
Not that I have much of a presence here,  but since I figure I'm one of the only Weat End commuters on the board I'll add a mention that this wasn't me. I do the 60-West End Circle-staircase-sidewalk until the SS trail dance. I actually took West Carson from the Corliss Tunnel headed inbound this Saturday. I lasted about three seconds before I hopped on the sidewalk (really nice condition, incidentally, until you get to the West End Bridge). Traffic was FLYING past me. I would estimate 50 mph is an easy average. I'm sorry, but blood is on PennDOT's hands. There is ABSOLUTELY no reason for 14-foot lanes. They're getting the speeds they asked for.
doublestraps
2016-08-30 21:38:59
Very sad to hear this.  My thoughts go out to victims family and friends.  What a shame.
gg
2016-08-31 00:24:51
Horrible, and terrifying. There was not a single mention of this on WPXI's morning news, by the way.
doublestraps
2016-08-31 07:02:19
From that WTAE story: "A bicyclist was killed Tuesday night after an accident with a pickup truck on West Carson Street, officials confirm. The medical examiner's officer identified the victim as Dennis Flanagan, 49. He died at Allegheny General Hospital."
paulheckbert
2016-08-31 07:09:56
Very sad news.  
unicyclemike
2016-08-31 07:22:21
The first inkling I had of trouble was a text about 4:20 from someone I know to be generally anti-bike asking me what ever became of the plan for a West Carson bike lane, and my reply was "PennDOT stupidity". I was in a meeting at work, and didn't get back to my desk until after 5:30. By that point, my phone was alive with inquiries to my location and condition. It would be over an hour before I stood up again. My first tweet said "Better question: Why is it necessary for me and every other cyclist in the city to drop what we're doing and inform everyone we're not dead?" In the software world in which I spend most of my time, there are things that, by design, Should Just Work. You design the system to avoid trouble. You don't want breakdowns, you don't even want annoyances. Traffic is like software, in this regard. You don't want crashes gumming up the works while police and tow trucks clean up, and you surely don't want total failures that lock the system down for hours. Back to the design phase: You can usually foresee such trouble occurring before you ever write a line of code, because others have tried it and reported on it, and so you just don't do that. If you do do that, and stuff breaks, you will soon be seeking other employment.
stuinmccandless
2016-08-31 07:25:27
My condolences to Dennis' friends and family.  This should never have happened.   Bicyclist hurt in West Carson Street collision; road design faulted http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/11058286-74/west-carson-penndot “We saw an answer to this from the very beginning, and PennDOT wouldn't listen,” said Scott Bricker, BikePGH's executive director.  
marko82
2016-08-31 07:56:24
That long-ass turning lane is such bullshit. There's only a handful of places where a left turn can be made outbound (busway ramp and Corliss tunnel are the busiest ones). There's also a long (read: highway speeds-long) merge lane outbound for traffic coming from the West End circle onto W Carson that could be a lot shorter if drivers would approach this point at the speed limit. This section is so wide it could've easily accommodated bike lanes on both sides, and still have the outbound merge lane. Traffic on this road will only get heavier, as more people rediscover it, GPS maps/units are updated, and 8 PAT routes resume full-time use of the road in late September, when the next service adjustments kick in. Right now, the G2, G3, G31 and 28X only use West Carson inbound and will resume outbound use to the busway ramp. The other four routes are the 20, 21, 22 and 24, which will travel along the full length of the road between McKees Rocks and the West End
chrishent
2016-08-31 10:17:37
Could we, pretty please, ask for a meeting with the PennDOT Bike/Ped coordinator (Roy Gothie) to discuss this? It seems like something he might have an interest in doing something about.
jonawebb
2016-08-31 11:37:29
There's a ride being organized on Tuesday on to W Carson St. Info below. Tuesday, September 6 at 7 PM - 9 PM S 27th St & Tunnel Blvd, Pittsburgh, PA 15203 We watched Dennis Flanagan’s death play out in slow motion. For 5 years the community has voiced its need for a safe W. Carson St. Corridor for all. These needs were thrown by the wayside, and 9 days after the project’s completion, a person biking the corridor was killed. Traffic deaths are avoidable tragedies. They happen because decision makers create designs that prioritize automobile “speed” and “congestion” over human life. This is the same tragic story that played out on West Carson Street. We will meet one week from Dennis Flanagan’s death. Tuesday, 9/6, 7pm at 27th St & Tunnel Blvd Healthy Ride Station (Southside Works). Join us Tuesday night to change the narrative to include the safety of all people – young, old, abled, disabled, on foot, bike, transit, car: everyone. https://www.facebook.com/events/548544958670662/
erok
2016-08-31 15:03:19
I don't post here often, but this is really sad. The fact that this happened a mere week of so after the road reopened and that this was a totally foreseeable event that could have been prevented is tragic. My condolences to Mr. Flanagan's family and friends.  
marv
2016-08-31 15:41:12
What a disaster. Has the paint even dried on the lane markings yet? PennDOT could and should take action to prevent future tragedies from happening on this street. While the opportunity to do this project correctly has long past, safety for all road users could still be improved by reconfiguring the lane markings as soon as possible to encourage safer driving behavior and to provide dedicated space for people on bicycles. In segments where it isn't possible to turn, the space dedicated as a two way left turn lane should be reused as a delineator separated two-way cycletrack along the river, with automobile travel lane widths reduced to discourage speeding. Even where turn volumes do warrant a turn lane, PennDOT could and should provide a dedicated space for people on bikes. The road's geometry should encourage safe driving and provide dedicated space for all users. Instead, PennDOT has chosen a geometry that asks people on bikes to ride with traffic in a 14' wide shared lane or dodge pedestrians on a narrow sidewalk. What is the design speed for this road? 40, 50 miles per hour? Whoever designed this facility as a "safety improvement" should have their engineer's license taken away. Unbelievably tragic and completely avoidable.
adams
2016-08-31 17:26:46
Expanded article on Dennis Flanagan and yesterday's incident: http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/11062874-74/flanagan-ride-crash Note that, just like in Susan Hicks' case, the medical examiner's office ruled his death "an accident". However, that's just the ME's assessment (and perhaps poor nomenclature on their part). Police are still investigating the crash.
chrishent
2016-08-31 21:21:04
My heart just sank when I read this news.  I was almost hit crossing West Carson at the West End Circle the first day it opened back up last week.  This could have been me.  I'm a lot more careful there now that I know the intersection better.  Thoughts and prayers are with Dennis' family.
dannyduck
2016-08-31 22:46:11
Carson Street absolutely sucks to ride on.  My commute is from Edgewood to the West End and after 2+ years of commuting I still sweat every second I have to ride on Carson St.   For some reason I find myself being a little shook up by this one, maybe it's because it was so close to home.  I come off of the West End Circle ramp and pray there's no oncoming traffic so I can jump on to the sidewalk at Pacific Pride but the traffic the day this happened left me stuck in the right lane up to the light.  All I could think was "please don't let me get hit".  Meanwhile the traffic was so bad because my worst nightmare was unfolding for someone else a mile behind me.  For now I'm taking a break from commuting by bike but will likely hump the steps at the West End bridge when I decide to resume.
sped
2016-09-01 09:00:05
Tragic. My prayers for Mr Flanagan and his family.
andyc
2016-09-01 09:35:32
I rode this section of west carson to get to the Mountour trail once. It was the most harrowing ride I've ever been on. PennDOT really failed in this design.
benzo
2016-09-01 12:29:07
I motorcycled it, inbound, Wednesday afternoon and rolled video. I give a play-by-play in the long caption, pasted below. YouTube link A cyclist was killed on West Carson the previous day. Video starts in McKees Rocks by Island and Chartiers, then to Stanhope and West Carson. Crash scene is at 3:58. Blood spot covered in kitty litter clearly visible between a big truck and a grey car, where the sidewalk switches sides. (Recommend turning sound off.) * 1:18 newly rebuilt West Carson starts * 1:33 the couple of businesses on the right fought successfully to keep the outbound turn lane. * 2:08 I don't know what the work truck parked in the center of the road is for, but it is not impeding traffic * 2:20 driver of work truck on the narrow sidewalk. Imagine meeting a bike here. * 3:02 pedestrian on sidewalk. * 3:11 one of a couple "share the road" signs * 3:18 center lane lined with orange traffic cones for road work * 3:30 outbound curb lane redirected to that center lane * 3:38 Corliss Street and Tunnel. Outbound, one of two places a left turn only lane is needed * 3:42 sidewalk on right is new. The crossover used to be here. * 4:01 scene of fatal crash on 30 Aug 2016. Look for red blotch in center yellow hatched area, between rear wheels of the big truck and the front of the grey car. That's blood and kitty litter. * 4:03 This first traffic light did not used to exist. It was added as a pedestrian crossing light where the sidewalk switches sides of the road. * 4:05 entrance to West Busway, the second location a left turn only lane is needed. * 4:15 right shoulder disappears. Also worth noting is that this is a north-facing road, so the right edge of the road here remains in shadow all winter, even in daylight. * 4:56 the railroad structure and bridge just ahead is to be removed, a "creep of scope" atop the original project, unnecessary, and possibly not desirable as it could provide a critical bit of infrastructure for bike access between McKees Rocks and other western suburbs and city neighborhoods, and the rest of the city. * 5:15 this tunnel is dangerous, even for cars. It is always wet, frozen in winter, poorly lit, with bad sight lines. Nobody should bike here. * 5:41 this merge is troublesome for cyclists from both legs. Ambient speeds are 40+. * 5:44 cyclists ideally should get on the opposite sidewalk here, but it's difficult. No shoulder. * 5:48 The long building at left is 1600 West Carson. Its owners, or the building's existence at all, thwart extending the bike trail between it and the railroad tracks. The RR does not service the building. * 5:56 - The buildings and businesses on the right side come out to road-edge. No space for a sidewalk. * 6:25 At this traffic light, cyclists can finally access the trail by getting on the river side of the street. The trailhead is on this access road, and continues without interruption for hundreds of miles. * 6:33 Duquesne Incline, with its pedestrian bridge across West Carson. * 6:42 lane split. Left goes to Station Square, right goes up onto the Fort Pitt Bridge. Imagine a cyclist who got this far, wanting to go left. * 6:49-on. No longer having to do with bicycling, but included for general interest. * 7:02 The Fort Pitt Bridge has four lanes. I come up into the first and need to get into the third or fourth to go out the Parkway East. * 7:04 Fortunately the lane splits. I take the right-most of the pair, now lane 2. Tunnel traffic is in 3 and 4. * 7:08 The slight jiggle is me checking over my shoulder to be sure 3 is clear, then I make my lane change. I am and have been going a steady 35 since West Carson St. * 7:21 I veer right to make my turn onto the Parkway East. Lane 3 splits; I could just as easily have gone downtown from here. * 7:29 Once I am on the straightaway, I increase my speed to 50 mph. This is a common speed on West Carson, posted 35. * 7:54 Starting to decrease speed for the left lane off-ramp for Grant Street. * 8:02 Exiting * 8:19 Homeless woman soliciting money.
stuinmccandless
2016-09-01 12:33:01
At one point I mounted a "wheel cam" to my front pannier, I only used it for a day and felt it was too much of a pain so haven't used it since.  Anyway, I pulled a clip of my commute on to Carson Street from earlier in the summer.  On this day I was able to get onto the sidewalk at Pacific Pride... https://youtu.be/UGyj-CViKh0
sped
2016-09-01 15:52:10
Thanks for the video Stu.  I was wondering what the sight-line was like at the pedestrian crossover. It looks like it's at the crest of a very slight up hill, however a driver paying attention should have no difficulty seeing a person in the cross walk.
marko82
2016-09-01 18:19:57
Reminder: The ride in memory of Dennis Flanagan, and in protest, is this evening. See erok's post above. Tuesday, September 6 at 7 PM – 9 PM meet at S 27th St & Tunnel Blvd (at REI), Pittsburgh, PA 15203
paulheckbert
2016-09-06 16:41:20
With all the hand-wringing about PennDOT's being "tone-deaf" to our cries for safe streets and our disdain for their beloved "level of service", we forget that PennDOT reports to the state's Secretary of Transportation, who acts under the direction of Governor Tom Wolf, who reports to us, the citizenry. And we have a tool for asking him to change the direction of the aircraft carrier that is PennDOT, via this radio show, which airs on KQV a couple times a week. Ask the Governor, via Radio Pennsylvania Roundtable
stuinmccandless
2016-09-07 07:16:21
sorry, duplicate post
stuinmccandless
2016-09-07 07:17:28
The Trib.
jonawebb
2016-09-07 09:39:03
For some reason edits aren't working. From the Trib article: "Bicyclists share a 14-foot lane on West Carson with motorists. City crews will paint a line 4 feet from the edge of the road to create a shoulder, PennDOT district executive Dan Cessna said. “That sort of addresses their issue,” he said, adding that the painted line was something PennDOT and the city agreed to before the project began."
jonawebb
2016-09-07 09:42:19
It kind of bothers me that PennDOT put up the "Share the Road" signs on West Carson Street, which suggests the street is someplace bicyclists should feel comfortable riding, but are only now getting around to finding some white paint to make a shoulder (not a bike lane, BTW)--which, if respected, actually will make the street safer to ride on--weeks after the road was opened, and after someone was killed riding there. Seems like something they should feel bad about. And the snarky tone--"we were always planning to do this"--come on, dude. Someone died. Show some honor.
jonawebb
2016-09-07 09:58:18
“That sort of addresses their issue,” Wow, if quoted accurately, that's remarkably tone deaf. The issue isn't a stripe of paint. The issue is that poor engineering and design, coupled with ignoring community input, is resulting in injuries and fatalities. Ask the families affected if that stripe of paint "sort of addresses their issue". If road users are sort of less injured or sort of less dead. Maybe there is sort of less liability.
ka_jun
2016-09-07 10:28:18
The "there's no room for bike lanes" argument bothers me so much. Of course there's no room for bike lanes when the lanes are 14, 12, and 14-feet wide. That's the problem. Make room for bike lanes by NARROWING THE LANES. The widest a vehicle is permitted under federal regulation (non-construction vehicle or other special vehicle type thing) is 8.5 feet. Why, then, do we need 14-foot wide lanes. Incidentally, this past week I've driven West Carson outbound three times. In two out of those three occasions, after passing through the West End Circle underpass, I was passed by a car who used the super long merge area to pass. I'm not talking about a car merging from the WEC ramp - this was a car that had been behind me, who swerved into the merge area to pass. Twice in three trips.
doublestraps
2016-09-07 10:43:30
Kudos to BikePGH, the Major Taylor club and others who helped organize the ride. Loved that we rode with Dennis' family. It got real dusty at the end, when his sister spoke. Aside, one thing that caught my attention was the number of cyclists I saw riding on the West Carson sidewalk, who seemed to be riding on their own and not as part of the ride. Must've been 5-10 during the short time that we rode out and back. And this at a relatively late time of the day. Imagine if we had proper infrastructure...
chrishent
2016-09-07 11:03:19
The Trib article says PennDOT may give us a four-foot shoulder. Is that on one side or both? Recall that a quasi-bike lane on the inbound side of West Carson is useless in winter, since it's a north facing slope. Which means that it will be in shade, frozen over for three months solid, and thus not usable. If this is PennDOT's idea of "sort of giving us what we want" (quoting Dan Cessna), he really needs to dig those comments we gave him back out of the trash can. Oh, sorry, that was four-may-as-well-say-five years ago, and the truck has long since taken away that load in the dumpster. So, come and actually talk to us, find out what really will work. Start by shrinking those lanes from 14 feet to 11, and dropping the speed limit to 25. THEN we can talk about an eight-foot space for bikes on the river side of the road, separated from traffic by jersey barriers.
stuinmccandless
2016-09-07 15:32:53
This is the same crap they did on Freeport. Make a big shoulder that could be a bike lane, but don't mark it as such because no one wants the liability to call it a bike lane, and then run away as fast as possible and tell people to shut up and be happy about it. Ugh At least the trib did a "fair and balanced" article about this. Didn't want to get anywhere near the comments on the article because I'm sure they are all trolls. No use getting the blood pressure up. And don't need to feed them.
edronline
2016-09-07 16:47:20
The first three commenters were cyclists, including myself. I haven't been to it in a few hours, but you're probably right that the trolls have come out from under their rocks and bridge abutments.
stuinmccandless
2016-09-07 18:13:31
Comments on the Trib article are pretty good so far (n=3), actually. A few names you may recognize, in a good way...
epanastrophe
2016-09-07 18:24:46
I'm too scared to look and I get too a get reading them that I try to avoid as much as possible. Though I guess the death being mentioned may keep some of the trolls away as it may make them look extra trolly.
edronline
2016-09-07 18:32:01
Harrisburg coverage Pittsburgh cycling fatality highlights life-and-death struggle for road space in America http://www.pennlive.com/news/2016/09/pittsburgh_cyclists_death_high.html According to PennDOT, 95 percent of the deaths of bicyclists occurred on state roads in 2014, while 56 percent of the injuries occurred on non-state roads. By comparison, 63 percent of cyclist deaths occurred on state roads in 2015, while 55 percent of the injuries occurred on non-state roads that year. He said his brother was on West Carson Street, a road without a bike lane, because it was the only feasible route between his home and the city, the other being a major highway. Sean blamed this on the project's planners and a wrong-headed approach to the business of integrating bikes with existing infrastructure.
marko82
2016-09-08 10:14:42
To be clear, the wrong-headedness began when the contractors were given the Level Of Service to design the road to meet. In software terms, that was the source code. Everything else was compiler output and formatting.
stuinmccandless
2016-09-08 12:31:13
BTW, talking with a friend of mine who is a para-legal this weekend, PennDOT is pretty wide open on this issue: they ignored public comment telling them the new road was dangerous, opened it anyway as a signed bike route without any bike accommodations (not even a painted shoulder), and someone was killed. It's the sort of thing people sue and win over.
jonawebb
2016-09-12 11:51:07
I'm sure that this family is consulting with a lawyer and I'm also sure that if they bring the case that penndot will drag it out forever and then settle with a nondisclosure agreement.   Which doesn't bring anyone back to life but will force penndot to make changes since crash #2 will be more legally painful.
edronline
2016-09-12 21:03:22
Driving outbound, maybe a tenth of a mile from where Dennis Flanagan was struck and killed, I was passed by yet another vehicle using the airport-runway-length "merging" lane as a passing lane. I believe I'm 4 for 5 in that happening, now. It's the same factual scenario every time: I'm driving 35-40, a junky car (this time, a dumpy 90's truck packed to the gills with... stuff) comes flying up behind me, starts tailgating hard, then flies around me in the merge area, probably going 50-55 at the very least. I'm so angry and saddened by all of this. I'm just some guy on the Internet, how do I have more care and concern about public safety than the state agency that we employ to design our roads. It's asinine. By the way, any word about what actually happened to Mr. Flanagan?      
doublestraps
2016-09-12 22:02:28
Another thing, I have yet to read one word faulting the driver. Have I not been looking in the right places?
stuinmccandless
2016-09-13 14:11:50
I haven't heard anything at all on what happened. AFAICT the only source of information is going to be the police report, when that is made available.
jonawebb
2016-09-13 14:39:17
The Post-Gazette had a story with some good photographs. One included the "PennDot KILLED Dennis F." sign: http://www.post-gazette.com/local/city/2016/09/07/More-than-200-bicyclists-turn-out-to-memorialize-biker-killed-on-West-Carson-pittsburgh-flanagan/stories/201609070156 My photos from the 9/6 ride: Scott Bricker speaks https://flic.kr/p/LQApes Dennis' brother, Sean Flanagan speaks https://flic.kr/p/LQApdf the cops-on-bikes were great https://flic.kr/p/LQApco https://flic.kr/p/LQApbm https://flic.kr/p/LQAp9C approaching spot where Dennis Flanagan was hit and killed by truck while cycling https://flic.kr/p/LjWKYN Corra Flanagan, Dennis' daughter at right, and Corra's mother Rebecca Flanagan at left https://flic.kr/p/LQAph3 ghost bike https://flic.kr/p/LQApfu
paulheckbert
2016-09-16 12:32:50
Thanks, Paul. And thanks to BikePgh for organizing this. I understand it meant a lot to the family; I am glad we were able to do something for them. That was literally the only time I've felt safe riding on that road.
jonawebb
2016-09-16 12:54:53
Coming up on Gateway View Plaza, outbound Carson St, on this mornings commute the light turned red and a box truck stopped at the light.  Lady in a beater came up on him doing at least 70 locked up the brakes, skidded on and off for at least 50 yds, crossed center a couple of times and slammed right into his rear.  I was sure glad to be on the sidewalk and equally upset to not have the camera mounted today as it I had a great view of the whole scene. I talked to the truck driver while waiting at the light at the West End Circle and he thought she was doing 90 said he was trying to ease up as much as possible but didn't want to hit the car in front of him.  In any case he didn't take her insurance as his rear guard was already damaged from a previous hit.
sped
2016-09-16 13:15:36
More West Carson stupidity witnessed today: I was on a bus traveling inbound on the west end of West Carson in the Esplen neighborhood. Going inbound, it's one lane only with a double yellow line the entire way. My bus stopped to let off a passenger and pick up another. During this time, which was maybe about 20 seconds, 4 or 5 drivers passed the bus on the left crossing the double yellow into the outbound turning lane, instead of, you know, waiting for 20 freaking seconds. Naturally, the bus caught up to all these idiots at the next light by the Corliss St tunnel.
chrishent
2016-09-29 18:24:20
I saw this on facebook: Stuart Strickland: I'm heading out on West Carson. I want to replicate Dennis [Flanagan’s] trip, minus getting crushed. Hogan J: Don't replicate his. He rode on the sidewalk and got hit crossing where it ended. Lyle Seaman: Is there evidence for that? I'd heard speculation but no witnesses Hogan J: Dennis and I talked every day. He'd told me his routine. Stuart Strickland: I made it out here unscathed. … Paid particular attention at the crash site. It's possible to do it safely, but so so so easy not to. If what Hogan J says is true, that's important news about the incident. News to me, anyway. It adds strong evidence that sidewalk+crosswalk on West Carson aren't good enough for safe passage of cyclists. Do we have confirmation from any other sources?
paulheckbert
2016-11-13 22:21:09
The crash report from police is a public document. Can someone at bike Pgh request it?   Worse case scenario it will take a foia request. That looks better coming from an organization than a random citizen.
 
edronline
2016-11-14 06:03:20
Making a FOIA request as a citizen isn't a big deal, find out who the representative is who handles FOIA requests, then make one in writing.
ka_jun
2016-11-14 09:24:24
I have video of my ride, including getting off the bike and walking it across WCarson to the other sidewalk. Links: Front camera: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBInRsiLosM Rear: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I3o-ZFz_JMQ My quick take, as summarized in my Fb post quoted above, is that it looks to me that he rolled off the end of the sidewalk on the river side and tried to ride diagonally over to the other side. On the rear camera, you can see how fast ambient traffic flow is. Also, there is a slight rise/dip at the city-side of the traffic signal pair, exactly where it hides someone in the road (crossing however), so sight lines are not all that great. Driving, you don't see the bottom two feet or so of whatever is in the road. If you do what I did -- stop, dismount, press the walk button, wait for the signal to change, walk the bike across, then continue on your way on the opposite sidewalk -- it's hard to see how you can get hurt. But cut any corner in that process, you're dead.
stuinmccandless
2016-11-15 14:32:15
If only PennDot would have made that sidewalk a little wider (say 10-12 foot) with either a low wall (as can be seen early in your video near WEC) or even just a metal guid rail, you could allow a child to bike on this - with only the cross over presenting any danger.  The way it is now, I don't have any desire to use it as either as a pedestrian nor as a cyclist.    
marko82
2016-11-15 16:37:14
I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days. Was there ever an incident report for this, or is the investigation still ongoing? Then today, I saw this on the PG Traffic article:
West Carson Street/ Route 51 — Daytime traffic shifts weekdays from 8 a.m. to 4 p.m. between Stanhope Street and the West End Circle. Crews installing electronic speed limit signage. A single-lane will be maintained in each direction, through May 19.
 
chrishent
2017-05-04 14:20:38
I almost died today on West Carson. And I don't say that with any kind of joking or exaggeration. This really is the closest I've ever come to dying on my bike. I'm very shaken. From my 311 report (which I stupidly forgot to enter my email so now I don't know how to follow up).
The owners of 1600 West Carson (Gateway View Plaza) have installed orange "snow fencing" to replace their metal fencing that was missing. This snow fencing curls out into the sidewalk and narrows the sidewalk. Today, I was bicycling on this sidewalk as I do every day for my commute. The curled end of the fencing caught my handlebar, which made my bike turn a sharp right and caused me to swerve out into the roadway. I'm pretty sure the only reason I didn't die today was that there weren't any cars coming. Within a second, I went from pedaling slowly along the sidewalk to facing oncoming traffic directly in the west-bound travel lane. Cars routinely travel upwards of 50 MPH on this road, oncoming to sidewalk users. It's intensely dangerous to use this sidewalk. But now that it's narrower, and the fencing is obstructing the sidewalk, it's a pedestrian or bike fatality waiting to happen.
pinky
2017-05-05 09:50:36
Wow. Thanks for reporting this. I'm very glad nothing bad happened.
jonawebb
2017-05-05 10:28:20
This is scary. You need to talk directly to the landlord, too. Looks like that is owned by the Buncher Company.
edronline
2017-05-05 10:28:40
Yes, I did also fill out a form on the Buncher Company's website. I doubt I'll ever hear anything back, but I just don't have time to call everyone and demand answers.
pinky
2017-05-05 10:34:49
I was on the G2 bus yesterday. There are "Share the road" signs along the stretch between the Parkway exit and the West Busway.
zzwergel
2017-05-05 14:12:01
We know. They're meaningless, even counterproductive.
stuinmccandless
2017-05-06 10:24:23
@Stu, Why don't they remove them and install [Bike Symbol] May use full lane signs and sharrows. Better yet, widen the sidewalk and mark as shared use.
zzwergel
2017-05-07 10:29:08
This is too difficult to cover in a response here. We have a couple of threads where we discussed it at length. I'll see if I can dig them up and repost links. Short answer, no, changing signage isn't going to fix it.
stuinmccandless
2017-05-07 14:07:02
Here's the fencing in question. Super safe.  
pinky
2017-05-08 09:58:42
OK none of my images will work.   Never mind.
pinky
2017-05-08 12:00:59
The cycling community wanted a real bike lane but got only a road with fast car traffic and ineffectual "share the road" signs, plus a sidewalk. The sidewalk was pretty nice, as sidewalks go, when new, but things have deteriorated due to poor maintenance. I filed this complaint at http://www.dot.state.pa.us/penndot/districts/district11/d11ccc.nsf (It could be that this sidewalk is Pittsburgh city responsibility, not PennDOT; maybe I'll find out). Japanese knotweed is blocking the sidewalk of West Carson St (Route 51) between the West End Bridge and McKees Rocks. Only about 1 foot of the sidewalk is clear, in places, because of the failure to prune the knotweed growth. Recall that cyclists requested that a bike lane be built along here, but PennDOT failed to do so, and cyclist Dennis Flanagan was killed along this stretch of road in 2016 just weeks after the “improved” road opened (he was probably killed while crossing the road at the crosswalk). http://triblive.com/news/allegheny/11062874-74/west-carson-penndot. There is now a sidewalk along one side of the road, only. The spot in the picture is on West Carson near Glen Mawr St, looking northwest. While I biked the sidewalk on 6/22, I passed several pedestrians. https://flic.kr/p/UQscLn You should be mowing this knotweed monthly, from April to September, to keep the sidewalk usable by pedestrians and cyclists. Please mow it ASAP and restore its full width.
paulheckbert
2017-06-23 14:22:39
Can almost guarantee PennDOT response will be 'we don't do sidewalks', same as on the bridges they own.  City response will be 'we don't do sidewalks, they're property owner responsibility'. (FWIW, County real-estate website is pretty slow at the moment, but a couple semirandomly selected properties on Carson west of Glen Mawr are City or Port Authority-owned...)
epanastrophe
2017-06-23 14:43:13
I just 311-ed the knotweed problem, so now the City is notified about it, in addition to PennDOT. A search tells me that we had people complaining here on this messageboard in 2014 about knotweed encroachment on the old sidewalk before PennDOT rebuilt it. http://localhost/message-board/topic/west-carson-mess/#post-299211 Nothing is certain but death, taxes, knotweed, and poor maintenance.
paulheckbert
2017-06-26 16:49:13
The new speed limit LED screens would be hilarious if West Carson didn't have a death toll. Unfortunately, they're just tragic. If you haven't been on West Carson in a while, signs showing your speed were erected on both sides of the road near the Busway entrance. The signs have flashing red and blue lights that mimic a police cruiser's. The lights are activated if you pass the sign going over 35 mph. How sad is it that all of us predicted this? I'm not a civil engineer or a transportation specialist. I'm just a guy who likes to ride his bike and has some sense of traffic flow. When I saw the plans, I thought they spelled trouble. And then the road opened up and my fears were quickly confirmed. It might as well be a highway.
doublestraps
2017-06-27 12:06:20
I'm shocked, shocked.   Although in all reality they probably have a hotkey shortcut for that, so it took someone 0.33 seconds to send that reply. Is it too much to ask if the peds/bike coordinator for the city to tackle this turf war issue? Also, what about getting tv involved?  They'll love the someone died and will die again lede. And it may get something done about it.  
edronline
2017-06-29 13:35:26
I haven't heard from PennDOT yet. They responded pretty quickly on the McKees Rocks bridge sign issue, so I'm hopeful that they'll respond soon on this West Carson sidewalk issue. If they say "it's not us, it's the City" then we'll have a case for TV people.
paulheckbert
2017-06-29 22:52:20
Happened to be approaching this area, from Neville Island, on July 4th and decided not to ride it.  I probably would have attempted it, had I not seen the photo with the overgrown knotweed.  Thank-you! Instead, I opted for the McKees Rocks Bridge (on the sidewalk), crossed 65 and took a right on California Avenue.  From there, a left on Antrim, right on McClure, and got on the North Shore Trail behind Western Pen.  An inconvenience but better than potentially becoming a statistic. It is amazing that, even after all that has happened, the sidewalks are not maintained and the buck is passed by the various agencies one would believe bear some responsibility.  What a tired and lame excuse we have in this region for sidewalk maintenance policy.  The sidewalks are collectively a disgrace and nobody is ever held to any level of responsibility, or so it seems. Regarding an earlier comment, the proper order of things around here is, taxes, knotweed, then death.
fultonco
2017-07-06 17:40:51
From http://www.post-gazette.com/news/portfolio/2013/07/23/Walkabout-No-reason-we-should-keep-tripping-over-rough-sidewalk-issue/stories/201307230130 ....since 1891, Pennsylvania has authorized municipalities to foist responsibility for sidewalks onto property owners. Obviously, enforcement, when it leads to a result, is spotty. Weed-choked patchworks of concrete and rubble denigrate us all. To say "it's not my problem" is to be in denial, whether you're a property owner or a city official. So what are the solutions? The current method is for the public to call 311 to officially decry conditions. It's good to have 311, but it's hardly proactive. Throughout the country, sidewalks are commonly the adjacent property owner's responsibility, but there are creative ways to deal with the realities of citation after citation without response, lien after lien that just adds to someone's eventual burden -- maybe even the city's.
yalecohen
2017-07-07 02:41:21
Except in my case, on Delafield between the route 28 overpass and the intersection a block away with Valley and E. Waldheim.  There are several foot craters in the asphalt sidewalk.  O'Hara Township says that even though the sidewalk is in their township neither the township nor the homeowners are responsible.  Delafield is a county road, so the county is responsible for the sidewalk. Repeated calls to the county and our county councilperson has elicited crickets. I know this is a bit off topic, but any advice for connecting with the county/figuring out the law?  I think that O'Hara is wrong...
edronline
2017-07-07 07:53:43
News today regarding the knotweed obstructing the sidewalk of West Carson St between the West End Circle and McKees Rocks. First a review:
  • I asked PennDOT to fix it.
  • To cover all bases, and anticipating PennDOT's response, I also asked Pittsburgh 311 to fix it.
  • Pittsburgh replied "This area is maintained by the state. Please contact PennDOT".
  • Today PennDOT replied: That's the city's job! Their words were "Vegetation maintenance within the city limits is the responsibility of the city, specifically, sidewalks and vegetation maintenance are always the responsibility of the local municipality. We do have a brush spraying program scheduled along SR 0051 in the next month or so but the only way to guarantee desired maintenance would be to contact the city. The decision to place bike lanes on state routes is evaluated by our Traffic Unit."
They contradict themselves somewhat when they follow "That's the city's job" with "we'll be spraying there next month"! Recall the saga regarding the crumbling sidewalk of Fort Pitt Bridge near the fort, in 2015. (see http://localhost/message-board/topic/have-you-made-your-311-complaint-this-week/page/16/#post-314594). Pittsburgh said "it's PennDOT's problem", PennDOT said "it's Pittsburgh's problem". Then someone suggested we contact DCNR (state park people) and they patched the sidewalk, I guess because they're the adjacent landowner, or maybe they're less practiced at passing the buck. What should we do now, with West Carson St and the knotweed? I'll let the city know that PennDOT passed the buck to them, and vice versa, but I'd be surprised if anything comes of that.
paulheckbert
2017-07-07 15:14:02
Call the media. Dead person, risky situation that's easily fixable, "lazy government" and buck passing.  They love all this.
edronline
2017-07-07 19:26:06
Ride with a machete and throw the cut roughage into the road to make it someone else problem.
jstalnaker2112
2017-07-07 20:48:33
For now, I suggest we not machete the knotweed there. I think we should try to get "the authorities" to fix it. If citizens start to maintain the sidewalk, that might prompt the city and/or PennDOT to back off their responsibilities. I just sent a request to KDKA TV to investigate it. http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/about-us/contact-us/ . I haven't watched local TV in years. Is one better than the others, or are they all about the same?
paulheckbert
2017-07-08 12:35:23
I biked the West Carson St sidewalk between West End Bridge and McKees Rocks again. The knotweed encroachment is worse than before, and there are other plant species encroaching, also. Interestingly, the one place that the plants have recently been sprayed and cut is a stretch of about 60 feet surrounding two billboards. Because everyone knows billboard visibility is more important than pedestrian or cyclist travel! https://flic.kr/p/Wxa9dJ
paulheckbert
2017-07-10 08:37:59
The billboard company maintains that.   So the solution is more billboards.   Or maybe fertilizer. Once it encroaches into the street, I bet Penn dot will cut it back, clearing the sidewalk
edronline
2017-07-11 12:48:31
Put up some temporary fence and throw some goats at the problem.
benzo
2017-07-11 14:43:29
An update on the West Carson St knotweed. I emailed both PennDOT and Pittsburgh that each entity says this sidewalk is the other entity's responsibility. In response I got a nice phone message from Phil Mannarelli of PennDOT saying (similar to before) "The knotweed on West Carson St is the responsibility of the city of Pittsburgh. Talk to Lisa Ceoffe in Public Works Dept." I've called Ceoffe's office (Forestry department) three times, leaving messages, but never able to talk to her and never receiving a return call. I never got a nibble from KDKA, so apparently they didn't consider the story juicy enough. Maybe we need a knotweed-related death to get their attention.
paulheckbert
2017-07-18 13:19:27
Did you try Councilwoman Kail-Smith's office?  sometimes it takes a politico to figure out bureaucratic hot potato
erok
2017-07-18 14:39:08