BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Pretty much all of Penn between 5th and Braddock is less than optimal for riding. I do ride that section in both directions regularly at rush hour though, and rarely have problems.

The biggest problem spot I have is westbound just past the factory where the city inexplicably allows people to park on the street for a block. It's uphill and there is a LOT of fast traffic being funneled into one lane at a light. Really dumb traffic pattern. It's pretty short though and a willingness to take the lane and a bit of patience and timing will usually get you through it without a hitch.

The biggest thing on Penn is just to ride predictably and take a whole lane when you feel you need to. Some days people are courteous and you can ride further right. Some days you need to ride smack in the middle of your lane and let the bastards wait.

I've never had anyone honk at me on Penn and only rarely have I had any dangerous passes. (some unnerving ones, but rarely dangerous)

On days that I just get a bad vibe from the traffic or I am in less of a hurry I will often take Meade and/or Thomas. They are in every way better riding streets, just slightly less direct.

As for the confronting drivers issue, it's not something I've ever done. If I'm feeling zen I don't have the urge, and if I'm pissed off it's probably a bad idea for all involved. I'd be interested to see what experiences others have had though.

i've given up riding that stretch of penn during the day. Reynolds has changed my life and is soooooo chill. it's only one block from penn. it's made my ride in that area go from stress and anxiety to chillaxed and fun.

as for drivers, i'm torn because i would like to think that giving them a stern talking to would help, "teach them a lesson" but i'm also pretty doubtful too. it's tough because everyone that i know that drives tends to be really nice to bikers, so i don't know anyone that's been "converted" after that type of interaction. They're more likely to convert to being respectful once they know other people, friends, doctors, relatives that use a bike to get around. So i think that just getting more people riding is more likely to quell this attitude than anything. and in a town like pgh, it's not long before everyone in town has someone close to them that rides.

buckyllama: I was talking about the section of Penn immediately west of S. Braddock Ave and before Carnegie. I think that's the same spot you're talking about--either that or it's an additional uphill spot (going west) where the right lane suddenly turns into parking.

erok: I'm a big fan of Reynolds/Edgerton myself, unfortunately Reynolds stops at Carnegie, where I've got no choice but to go a block up to Penn.

kramhorse

you can keep going on reynolds past carnegie make a right past the bowling greens on ben hur (?), make a left follow till the dead end, take the short dirt trail to richland lane, make a right on tuscarora and keep going parallel to penn. all the way to the busway pretty much. once on tuscarora if you make a right on peebles then a left on south you can take that all the way to ardmore.

quick draw on bikely

http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/kramhorse

that mini trail was great when i learned about it. unfortunatly, it's unrideable at night without a good light

really? it's only about 40 feet long, you can get off and walk it. seems better than riding Penn

yeah, you're right it is a tiny section that's dark.

what is this "walking" that you speak of?

When I read the initial post in this thread, I was going to offer up some wise "live and let live" advice about chilling out. Then this morning I totally blew my top at a driver. So much for my initial response.

Did the interaction accomplish anything? Well, it put me in a bad mood for a good long while. I was upset at the driver's behavior, and I was upset with myself for the way I (mis)handled it.

Did the driver learn anything? Either he was totally clueless and thinks some crazy cyclist got mad just because he passed me, or he's a total a-hole whose only concern about hitting me would be that I might have damaged the front end of his SUV. I suspect the latter, but so what? In either case he didn't learn anything constructive about cycling this morning.

Maybe the road just isn't the right venue for communicating with drivers. (Tip: Yelling isn't such a hot idea, either.) Drivers are naturally defensive about whatever they've just done, even if deep down they know they're wrong. Standing there with your bike, when the other person is encased in a few thousand pounds of metal, isn't the best match-up in the world.

I still like my initial advice. I just need to figure out a way to follow it.

pratt: thanks, I didn't know about the trail. I gave it a try today. It adds some a bit of time to my commute, so it's not a perfect solution, but from now on that's the path I'm going to take when I'm too worn out to deal with Penn.

mmfrazen: I think I've come around to erok's point of view that the best way to create respectful drivers is for them to be close to someone who rides. Despite how my initial post might make the interaction sound, I think I generally present myself as calm and polite (for the circumstances anyway). My goal isn't to get them to admit they're wrong right then, but maybe in both your case and mine, the driver went home with that interaction in the back of his head, and resolves to be a little more patient next time. That's the hope anyway.

I didn't have any trouble through the fall and winter, but within the past two days I have verbally accosted the young and old for rev'ing their engines at me and attempting to pass me on the right while gridlocked in traffic.

I'm one of those mannerly types that stop at intersections and sit in traffic with the rest of 'em. And I need an extra trip up 18th street to burn off the rage...

I think I get honked at, yelled at, (had eggs thrown at me once), was clipped by a driver probably going close to 90mph, swerved into, near-doored, been hit head on by a senile old driver (me going 45, her going around 30), or any one or combination of these every time I ride my bike.

I honestly don't even notice it half the time anymore because it is relatively common.

"You was in the way..." Just ask that asshole if he would ram into a car, or try and run someone off the road like an episode of Dukes of Hazard if it were someone in a car that was in his way.

I have terrible road rage myself when I drive, and am usually pretty zen on the bicycle. I am always kind to my own people (cyclists) and will slow down and even cut off some asshole if I think he is gonna mess with a biker up ahead, and make it harder for the idiot driver to cause harm.

But I find myself screaming out my window at drivers "who get in my way" all the time. It is pretty stressful driving these days because you can't go 10 miles without someone doing something that could kill you if you are not paying attention yourself and take evasive action.

I can understand why drivers get pissed off at cyclists, but at the same time, they do things to bikers they would never dream about doing to someone in another car.

If a driver honks at me or yells something out the window, I either ignore it or flip them the bird (with a smile of course). That can sometimes be enough to get them riled up enough to try and start a fight with you, but it is quite hard for someone in a car to catch someone on a bike in reality. I've ditched the cops more than once in my life, and that is about as tough as it gets.

If a driver does something dangerous that could get me hurt, or throws something at me, I will snap at them, and chase them down if possible.

Otherwise I just let it go and consider it part of the game.

When you play soccer you are probably going to get tripped or kicked in the shin sometimes. Sometimes it will be done on purpose but it is part of the game.

Cars have made people real assholes since they came out.

I cannot imagine Thomas Jefferson getting stuck in a horse and buggy traffic jam behind John Adams yelling "GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE WAY YOU FUCKING PRICK!!!"

When you are in a box that can go 100 MPH and you are stuck going less than 1 mph when people on kids toys (bikes) are zipping past you at 25-30 mph it probably makes them jealous, so they take it out on the next one that "gets in their way."

I think they are jealous as well. Nothing better than legally passing a line of cars on Liberty Ave. in the bike lane!

It still continues to amaze me how stupid some drivers are though, the other day I was legally in the right lane on Liberty right before the Main turn off when a woman in a mini van cut right in front of me to turn on to Main. I know she saw me because we were stopped at the light at Ella.

Why risk hitting me? Why not just slow down, signal and turn behind me?

I went riding last night for the first time in several months, and from what I can recall I know I was honked at a few times, and I vaguely remember someone pulling out in front of me or something like that.

I was too happy to be out riding my bike to really care about any of it though. I almost don't hear it anymore when people honk at me or yell things.

I have some really hysterical Critical Mass footage of the things people do to the bikers that I have videotaped with my helmet camera over the years I should compile into a YouTube video sometime.

The camera is so small that people really don't notice it and I can get right up to their cars and put it right in their face as they scream into the microphone attached to the strap of my backpack LOL...

It is a big pain in the ass to wire up and fuss with, so I only use it for special occasions like that.

However, I heard about a guy who has made a TV show or something like that just by driving around LA with a few cameras on his car, filming all the stupid things people do while he is driving around...

I am sure that would make a good YouTube video at the very least if someone did the same thing on a bicycle.

I don't think I have been honked at yet. Yelled at once or twice but never honked.

I do generally claim the entire lane for myself when going downhill or when I am able to break the speed limit, and keep up with traffic. Then, in areas like SouthSide and places where it is congested I tend to ride the yellow line because I would rather squeeze between 2 directions of traffic than chance getting doored or being pushed off the road by the drivers.

I tend to get honked at quite a bit in those situations, but I just don't care much about it and most of the time ignore it.

I go down East Street all the time from my house to get into the city and I can maintain 30-40 the whole way down into NorthSide, and I always get honked at because someone wants to go 50 even though the posted speed limit is 25 (maybe 35) the whole way down. I would rather get honked at than not be able to choose my line and avoid the potholes and broken concrete slabs the whole way down into Northside.

i get honked at so infrequently these days

Me too, Erok.

I'm glad to have found this discussion as I had something happen to me today similar to mmfranzen: I nearly got squashed once (Negley and Penn) and thought a car was going to turn right into me another time, and I reacted very poorly...flicked one driver off and cussed at another (apparently very loudly). I feel awful because I wouldn't like someone to do it to me, but I get more than a bit frightened in these situations b/c I have no way to warn them (e.g. honk a horn)...plus I'm not sure how effective it would be.

For those veteran bikers, other than getting into the "zen" mode, how do you get drivers' attention w/o something as useful as a car horn?

I shwerve alot, make deliberate soft turns and attempt to make eye contact whether it's directly through the windows or via their mirrors. If I'm approaching a dicey intersection or parking lot access point, then I may ride the centerline of the road.

That and a set of truck nuts dangling from the handlebars... j/k

Last week while riding home on Freeport Road in Aspinwall a few teenagers in a car intentionally passed very close to me, I got a bit pissed and caught up with them at the red light and was planning to give some choice words, but hen I got close they woldnt make eye contact were acting all sheepish, so I just blew it off. Then I came up passing them again and the passenger was trying to open his door as I approached. Im sure they werent trying to reenact the great scene from "the Toxic Avenger" or anything, but I really felt if I got into a cfonfrontation with them, they woudld continue their stupid antics and probably go too far being probably new drivers and really hurt me. Unfortunately I was unable to get a license number or anything ad havent seen them, but in about 9 months of commutin, thats about the only major event Ive had.

If someone passes too close but not aggressively and I am able to catch up to them. I will tell them to "leave more room you will eventually hit someone if you keep passing so close".

If someone is slowly sneeking up on me I will put my hand out to get there attention and even slap their car if they are close enough. (this happened yesterday). they were close but not close enough for a slap