BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

thanks sloaps

No problem. You put the Good in Good Government.

I heard about this on the radio (90.5) and I can't attend, but anything that improves (for real) that area would be awesome. East Liberty is the closest bit of "real city" to me, so it would be fantastic for it to be more of a destination. Right now, biking through some parts on weekends feels a little funny, like the roads are there to support commuters and are ghost-town-y without them.

There's a lot of potential there, and movement in a better direction will make a LOT of people's lives better, so this is very awesome East Liberty's made such nice progress lately, it's good to see this part of the picture being addressed as well.

Interesting little presentation... I learned a lot about TRIDs and TIFs and heard a lot of white males talk to each other

Sorry I talked so much

What can I say; they asked for my opinion. Somebody's going to make decisions, it had might as well be me.

Right now, biking through some parts on weekends feels a little funny, like the roads are there to support commuters and are ghost-town-y without them.

This may be because loads of housing (low income or otherwise) have been razed over the last ten years.

I'm sorry to have missed this meeting.

hah, Ian, it was in jest and honestly I wasn't referring to you. Mostly the developers that took our small group hostage.

hopefully the developers listened to people who lived there? were there a decent # of residents represented? I'm not even a resident (and did not attend), and would have been reluctant to say much (other than the appropriately timed and enthusiastic "remember the bicycles! remember the pedestrians!"). Developers often give me the creeps. I hope these were the good kind.

I'm sure the developers are listening to the residents, what are you worried about?

Wow, that is pretty bad.

East of Liberty: In Unlivable Times Public Screening

Friday, August 26 · 7:00pm - 10:00pm

Allegheny Unitarian Universalist Church of Pittsburgh

416 West North Avenue

"The third chapter in the East of Liberty series that combines elements of A STORY OF GOOD INTENTIONS and THE FEAR OF US that focuses on the always missing piece in proper redevelopment efforts... the voice of the youth."

@ejwme there was one developer in particular who was a pretty good listener and kept asking me questions.

there was another, though, when we split into discussion groups and were supposed to discuss the East Liberty Transit Station, went into a 10 minute rant about how much of a pain in the ass it is to drive through East Liberty and how it needed a more major thoroughfare. He dominated the first 20 minutes of discussion and it was extremely annoying.

ok, I'm dense... aside from being mostly white males and all in stuffy suits (but that's the photo style), why are those two lists of directors particularly bad? Most of them actually live somewhere near the area, as opposed to Rhode Island or Topeka or something.

Not defending anybody, but just not sure I see what dwillen sees?

(and dude, there's an Apothecary in EL? if so, their web presence could be improved, that would be awesome to find a real compounding pharmacist in EL)

dmtroyer - MORE of a thoroughfare? I wish they'd limit Frankstown to one lane... Penn Ave too... Time the lights, sure, but there's a difference between moving traffic through at a reasonable safe pace for a business district surrounded by residential areas and turning it into a thoroughfare. Why's he in such a hurry to leave? Maybe he should just stay away if he hates it so much he can't wait to leave.

"...went into a 10 minute rant about how much of a pain in the ass it is to drive through East Liberty and how it needed a more major thoroughfare."

!!! Who the heck was this, the reincarnation of Robert Moses? Whoever this was has apparently never driven through the suburban clusterfk that is Robinson Twp, and it is all "major thoroughfare". 6 lanes of surface traffic in one section, 4 in another, 4 lanes of highway available to bypass it. This guy should be forced to traverse that area at 1:00 pm on a Saturday. Insert the same for Ross Twp, Cranberry, Monroeville, South Hills. I have never experienced anything in the East end comparable to those messes. Person needs to get a clue, more roads = more traffic. If he wants to traverse the area quickly, take a bike.

Rant, wheee!

Maybe they should bulldoze half the neighborhood and put in a 4-lane highway.

ejwme - you're not dense, come on...

Also, I very much like the recent squareing off of the intersection @ Penn Circle East and Penn Circle North, that is working very nicely. Less racetracky. Whoever decided that gets a pat.

Maybe they should bulldoze half the neighborhood and put in a 4-lane highway..

Like the Mon Fayette Expressway through Braddock.

ejwme - you're not dense, come on...

Put me in the 'dense' column, then, 'cause I'm not getting the message either.

maybe I'm just a bleary-eyed optimist, trying to assume the best before getting evidence of the worst?

The fact that a TRID (perhaps my new favorite acronym) actually made it into the planning and community discussions indicates that... learning is happening, even amongst developers.

EL has so many great characteristics - true neighborhood feel, classic Pgh architecture in beautiful old homes, boulevards with medians for parks, convenient business districts with local businesses, good bus service, nice parks sprinkled throughout, industrial pockets that just keep on chugging along... It's really a fantastic place. It's got down sides, of course, but nothing insurmountable by some really thoughtful, careful, community oriented (and community originated) planning (that has tremendous potential to be profitable for the community, too).

Turning it into a major thoroughfare... I often take 28S->376 or 65, or 576->376, and as I drive my car around the maze of on/off/merge ramps, I always wonder about the neighborhood that used to be there, what it was like, where the people went, what the houses were like, what was lost for all that concrete. It makes me so profoundly sad. If they did that to East Liberty I honestly don't know that I'd ever forgive "Pittsburgh" for letting it happen again, and I don't even live there.

So much bad planning has happened in the past there, and recent evidence points to at least a small amount of actual learning from those mistakes and recovery... I have to hope that this will be done better, somehow "right" for the residents. Maybe that doesn't include a TRID, maybe it looks like something else. But it doesn't look like an offramp, it just can't.

Yeah, I don't actually think a highway was ej's point, the contrary.

"...learning is happening, even amongst developers." Apparently not amongst the guy troyer was talking about.

sorry, i put two different messages in one post.

1) they already bulldozed half of east liberty and put in a 4-lane highway. the "highway" part was semi-sarcastic, but otherwise... they already "did that to East Liberty" once, 50 years ago and it was a disaster.

2) ejwme called herself "dense" in an earlier post for allegedly not seeing any problem with having a bunch of white dudes leading the "redevelopment" effort. and a meeting that was described as "a lot of white males talking to each other" is supposed to be "progress"?

salty - I didn't say I don't see any problem at all, but rather not an insurmountable one... at least they all live near the area if not in the neighborhood.

not all white people are evil, some can do good, respectful, helpful things for places they don't live and for people who aren't their immediate neighbors. I need to believe that, for obvious personal reasons. People of any race can be awesome motivators for positive change and helpful growth, or slimy greaseballs siphoning the life from a place to feed their egos and checkbooks.

True, it's not ideal. But no matter their race, people who own businesses that cater to EL residents (like those with EL storefronts), it's in their own best interests to only promote changes that their EL resident customers would welcome and benefit from. Their livelihood depends on it. That's why developers always scare me - they're never part of the community, once their development is sold they move on to the next vacant lot. If they're developing their own backyard, that's one thing. If they're developing from afar, that's another.

The trick is somehow indicating that this time, unlike the 50's, they're actually interested in listening and respecting those who live there. That's what I meant about learning, and I know not everybody has. Hopefully those who have, those who brought up the TRID idea, some of that will rub off of the "Put In A Thoroughfare" people. Good ideas can be contagious too.

salty, the progress I was referring to is correcting the nightmare that was Penn Circle traffic pattern. If ever there was a stupider idea actually put into pavement, I've never had the bad fortune to navigate it. Destroyed those businesses. Beginning to fix that is probably the best thing I've seen this city do (no disrespect to bike lane painting or BPGH efforts). Really sad it took Target to get them to do it.

Maybe I'm wrong, I'm very happy to be corrected, but thems the conclusions I draw from the info I've got.