BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Our 4' passing law got voted out of committee and is on it's way to a house vote. http://www.pawalksandbikes.org/2011/05/safe-bicycle-passing-vote-is-coming/

4' is a lot. Given how ridiculous some people are about estimating where the edges of their vehicle are, I could see some people then trying to implement what amounts to a 10' law. In fact, was walking down the road in CT the other week, on the shoulder, when an oncoming SUV not only swerved to "avoid" me (I was 3' off a 4' shoulder), but swerved onto the opposite SHOULDER. I always wonder what those types would do with oncoming traffic.

I've got mixed ideas about passing laws. I'm only for them really because it provides one more thing to cite people who hit cyclists with, hopefully increasing the financial pain. If it weren't for that I have no idea where I'd stand.

I was on outbound Penn between Fifth and Dallas a while ago. There isn't anywhere for a driver in the curb lane to go. You may as well take the lane. Or the sidewalk, which is what I did.

I'm all for it, if only to increase driver awareness. Was almost clipped 2x this am... once on Negley near Penn, then about 3 mins later in Friendship (access van).

yeah, i am for the law, provided it says "at least", and the distance is properly defined (e.g. they can't say they were three feet from my bicycle, when i'm a good two feet wide myself).

but then, my troubled experiences have been the opposite of ejwme's. i have absolutely no problem with someone who gives me too wide a berth. it's the folks who don't know where the edge of their vehicle is so they buzz my ear with their mirror on the way by that i want to get after.

The Access Van drivers are pretty bad. Does anyone know what agencies hire those out?

I am still not sure how I feel about laws like this. Driver awareness is good because I don't think a lot of people understand how dangerous it is to pass too closely. But then if they pass this, will drivers expect me to pass them with three feet? Sort of defeats the purpose of riding a bike sometimes.

This reminds me I meant to put together a chart of applicable traffic laws in Pa/Pittsburgh, for easy reference.

HV - it's not that the people that pass me with too wide a berth bug me more than the "close passers", it's that... Close passing, I get. There's no room, they didn't see me, they didn't realize how close they were, but they stayed within their lane and continued predictably forward. I understand it.

The "too wide" passers... I'm talking about the people that, if I threw myself across the road they'd still clear me with 2-3 feet. Is that what they think will happen? Every pedestrian and cyclist might just throw themselves towards their SUV? And they're risking an accident by providing oncoming traffic with nowhere to go but into the wrong lane as well - that's asking for 2 head-on collisions. All because I might hurl my entire body as hard as I can for no reason towards their vehicle?

I completely don't understand it, I'm totally bewildered. And how would a 4' law change their behavior, if at all? Would they then think "oh, I only need to give them 4', I will no longer cross two lanes of traffic to avoid them"? Just mystifies.

Maybe they see that they have the extra room and decide to give you all of it just to be polite, and to avoid any kind of air blast. Whenever I pass a cyclist in a car, I give them as much room as I possibly can.

See, I could see the opposite lane getting involved, though i think completely crossing the double yellow is overkill to the point of social awkwardness (if I'm a pedestrian, if I'm cycling it's still polite), that opposite shoulder has no place in the equation. My shoulder is mine, his lane is his, maybe violate the double yellow in certain relatively extreme circumstances (if I'm a ped fully on the shoulder - cycling on the road requires them to cross it), but violating the opposite shoulder is totally unneccessary unless flashing lights, blood/guts, or fire are already involved. On a bike, the airblast may be significant but, being on the road, I'd expect the laws of physics to be obeyed by all objects traveling the road. If it were a two lane road and I took the right one, they'd get the left one - not the one after that.

But I'm a city girl. I'm used to cars speeding past where i'm walking, 2 feet away. Why does the presence of a curb make it acceptable, but the absence of a curb mandates melodramatic vehicular acrobatics? Does 4 vertical inches really change that much?

I think making it legal to pass a cyclist when there is a double yellow is one benefit to the law. Most people who are passing too close are either ignorant, don't care, or want to purposely scare you. I don't see this law fixing any of those situations.

And I'm not advocating "close" passing. Just moderate and safe passing. Both extremes bug me, and I recognize that the one I'm railing about is the safer one (mostly, I still think oncoming traffic is an issue, but assuming there is none).

@rsprake But then if they pass this, will drivers expect me to pass them with three feet? Sort of defeats the purpose of riding a bike sometimes.

I've wondered about this too. If they did enforce it both ways, riding in traffic would be much harder and slower.

On the other hand, I do have a few reasons for riding a bike other than filtering through traffic.

The other advantage of "too far passing" is that it makes it very clear to any following traffic to wake up and be alert. Passing at the minimum safe distance is fine for the first car in a platoon, but the guy behind him doesn't have as long to plan, and doesn't get over quite as far, and then the one behind that...

File under "unsafe passing in a no-pass zone while drunk." Just over the NY border.

A 42-year-old man has been charged with five felony counts of criminally negligent homicide for his role in a crash along a rural stretch of road in the Finger Lakes region of New York that killed five Amish farmers, a law enforcement official said Wednesday.

It will be interesting to see if the charges stick. What a loss for the food security of this region.

If I approach a cyclist while driving a car, I slow, wait until it is clear, and provide as much room as the road allows. I appreciate when people do this for me, so I do it for others. It also sets a good example for any other drivers behind me.

I never saw it as "hey that person thinks their car is huge!" but more "hey that person sees me, and cares enough to provide ample space!"

I think what you do, dwillen is probably very appreciated, most especially because you're doing it in a controlled manner. I think that the ones ejwme was referring to are throwing their vehicle way, way into the other side of the road almost in a panic as if coming up to a pedestrian off the edge of the road was a huge buck standing right in the middle of their travel lane.

I'm not even going to click on the Amish farmer article. I'm sure it will make me sad. They don't advocate for their rights and really get a bad deal a lot of the time.