BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

No matter the ghost bike's presence, his presence is still in full and wonderful force. I think about him, the rides last summer, and all the stories I've heard about him quite a lot. This spring I'm planning a trip to Cooks Forrest, what I like to call my "home away from BC", which I only know about thanks to your brother's legacy. I'm a lot less homesick knowing about that place and how close it is - huge impact to me.

Stay strong. *HUGS*

Thank-you....Ellie. You always seem to have the right words. It just seems the victims don't have any rights, but the

"killers" do. This is a topsy turvy world we live in. As the days creep closer to the "day" ,it is going to be tougher and tougher.... It's like reliving last year..

Cook Forest is very special to me too. We went there every single summer when I was growing up. Riding the horses was always a big thing, as well as going to the tower. No matter how many times we had been there, the tower was such a special place. Driving through the rhodedendron in bloom was always spectacular. Of course we did the canoe ride and the pool ... Actually Al and his wife had their 25th anniversary dinner at a restaurant in Cook Forest...

Kathi, I used to work for PennDOT reviewing sign permit applications so I have a little info for you that might be helpful, assuming they treat the ghost bike the same as a sign.

1. No signs can be placed on PennDOT right of way. Period. The local district may choose to ignore the bike (there were some things that we used to just let slide) but that would be up to your district's right of way people. In the future, someone from PennDOT might not like the bike being up on that wall and take it down.

2. Churches don't need permits, provided the signs are either placed on their property, or within 300 feet of it and with the landowner's permission. So perhaps if you get the neighbors permission and the church to sign for a permit, you could have the bike on their property.

There are probably some other regulations I don't remember. Its been a few years. But hopefully, you can get it all worked out. I worked in district 10, which ended in Jefferson county, just outside of DuBois. We ALWAYS, as a matter of respect, let roadside memorials slide, as long as they weren't on the pavement. I don't know who takes care of it up there, but you should try calling your district's right-of-way department and talking to them about it.

Ricky, what do you suggest I do??? I spoke with the church pastor and he said it was not in his hands. It was in the hands of Donna Bush, council president and church secretary.So we are talking about one or two people from one church who are not in favor of this bike placement. Mind you this church must have a membership of 50-100 people.The community at large is very enthusiastic about the placement. The local Penn Dot authority is also in favor of placement and will look the other way... if all is OK with the church.

What should I do:

1. Contact Donna Bush and ask why she is requiring a permit when churches do not need a permit

2. Get the permit

3. Get a petition going to show community support

4. Look for another site

Kathi

What I'd do if I were you is try and find a third party - you are very close to and passionate about this (a good thing!), but she's a careing, thinking, feeling human being and must have reasons that need to be addressed - it can't be spite. I'd look for someone to mediate discussions (your pastor seems to be acting in this role already to a certain extent), not necessarily to set up a compromise, but to make sure that everyone is heard and not hurt during the discussion.

The second thing I'd do (maybe at the same time) is start a pettition. I'd sign it, but she, and the church, rightly wouldn't care about my signature. They'd care about the pastor's. They'd care about their neighbors' sigs, other members' sigs, anybody. Maybe if you line up a decent majority of the members, your cause no longer belongs to a perceived "vocal minority".

I'd also get it in writing - even an email - from someone at PennDOT that a permit isn't necessary. This being unofficial might make that difficult. If that's impossible, I'd try to get the permit. Even if it's not required - if you have one or proof you don't need one, that is no longer a valid part of their argument against it.

Armed with an attempted mediation (which may work), a pettition, and a permit (or proof you don't need it), the arguments on the other side, if they truly are as presented, no longer hold water and any insistence really says more about the opposers than the ghost bike. Only after that would I look for another permanent site. I see no reason not to set up a temporary site, or permanent one, if the other property owners on those corners are willing.

Best of luck.

If the church pastor has already declared that it is not in his hands, I don't know that he'd be the best mediator, since he's basically leaving it up to Donna Bush, from the sound of Kathi's post.

I wonder if there is anyone else from the "community at large" who also has a connection to the church who might be able to get some insight into why a few people want it removed?

I also don't understand why you'd have to remove it on holidays. That doesn't usually happen with other types of roadside memorials.

It seems kind of bogus, as a general matter. Do churches ask families to remove all the headstones in graveyards on holidays? No other memorials seem to get as much scrutiny as ghost bikes.

I don't think Jesus or God or whatever deity they believe in is so insecure that they cannot have a ghost bike around whenever whatever significant date they're celebrating comes around.

I actually have Luannne, Al's wife, contacting Dr. Henninger for me.We spoke yesterday and I felt that maybe he could provide me with some insight as to what type of person this Donna Bush is. I have also prepared a petition that is ready to go and the community is ready to stand behind our endeavor.

I have thought of another way to display the bike that wouldn't hide the church's holiday displays. I thought of maybe suspending the bike from chains that would allow the stone on the wall to be the bike's backdrop. In this way it would not look like it is affiliated with the church. In addition, the bike would be more visible than attached to the railing.

The one thing I noticed when it was attached to the railing .....it became "lost" due to the colorations being so similar. In the fall I had to attach leaf garlands to make the bike visible.

Ellie, thank-you for your thoughts . Also thanks to Pierce and Pseudocris and Ricky.

All your input gives me more information and thoughts to consider.

I actually have Luannne, Al's wife, contacting Dr. Henninger for me.We spoke yesterday and I felt that maybe he could provide me with some insight as to what type of person this Donna Bush is. I have also prepared a petition that is ready to go and the community is ready to stand behind our endeavor.

I have thought of another way to display the bike that wouldn't hide the church's holiday displays. I thought of maybe suspending the bike from chains that would allow the stone on the wall to be the bike's backdrop. In this way it would not look like it is affiliated with the church. In addition, the bike would be more visible than attached to the railing.

The one thing I noticed when it was attached to the railing .....it became "lost" due to the colorations being so similar. In the fall I had to attach leaf garlands to make the bike visible.

Ellie, thank-you for your thoughts . Also thanks to Pierce and Pseudocris and Ricky.

All your input gives me more information and thoughts to consider.

I think you may have a tough battle on your hands. Obviously, the person with the final say doesn't want it. Like ejwme suggested, I would suggest a local petition showing support for it.

If you get a chance to speak with Donna Bush, I would ask her about her concerns with it and why she/they removed it.

As for Penndot, good luck, but I don't think they will do much either way, unless they get complaints.

With that said, if you can get permission for some type of memorial, let me know and we can figure something out.

I read the post by Ricky Ticky Tac concerning his input and being a reviewer of Penn Dot permits, specifically the church being given more freedom ,to Luke Crawford, the local Penn Dot director. I have also suggested lowering the bike with the wall as the backdrop to see it better. At the very least if the wall doesn't work, there are properties at the intersection that we can investigate. Luke did recognize that the MADDD crosses out there are allowed to remain, so equal treatment needs to be given to us as well. If one ever rides on 909, there is a stone memorial cross near the Longwood of Oakmont

Senior Citizen Buildings. If we are not given permission to have the bike, I will mention that stone 3 foot memorial.

There is agreement from several parties that the problem with Donna Bush is par for the course. She seems to be a very mean spirited woman and a control freak.

Even the Pastor felt her wrath because he agreed to the bike placement in the first place. I belive it was she who took the bike down in November and called the Henningers and told them to come and get the bike. There was no compassion on her part whatsoever. It hurt the family so much the way she did it.

I have spoken of a petition to Luke and said I would not back down. Being a small community it is easy to rally the people for our cause, unlike that of a large city like Pittsburgh. Just say some prayers that all this isn't necessary and we can move forward.

Despite the outcome , we will be having another ride like we did last year... only hopefully bigger. We are planning it as we speak and hope to use the platform for the good of all cyclists. The family wants to see some good come out of this for we feel Al would want us to do this for him. We can't bring him back, but we can keep his memory alive and continue to do good out of his death. We would like surrounding bike clubs to participate this year, as many as we can get with early notification.

Kathi, I’m sorry to hear about the bike. I hope that you can convince Donna to allow it to remain where it is since this is the easiest outcome. I think hanging the bike will just bring up other issues. Some may see it as unsafe, no matter how strong the chains would be. Likewise kids may try to climb down to sit on it, or some other safety issue could arise. I suggested a while back the possibility of painting a mural with symbols of Dr. V’s favorite activities, like biking, and maybe inspirational/bible quotes. It could also list car/bicycle accident statistics to make an educational point if desired. Perhaps the Sunday school kids could help with the design, thus giving the church more ownership in the project. Just some of my thoughts.

Marko...you have some excellent ideas....

Let's see what the Penn Dot director has to say .... I like the idea of the church contributing in some way........