The news reported a bicyclist that was hit at liberty and 34th last night. There isn't a link online to the story. They reported that the bike was stuck to the front end of the car right after the initial impact and came off a block later. The mangled bike looked like it had purple platform pedals, but it was dark when the footage was taken. No name was released, but they said "he" when referring to the victim, who was taken to the hospital. I hope the cyclist is ok. I saw a helmet on the side of the road that appeared to be in tact
Stef and I probably saw the same news account. Accident happened about 2:30 a.m.
Vehicle was reported to be a Jeep, then later referred to as an SUV.
Platform pedals seemed to be an unusual color. Purple sounds about right - but pretty vivid purple.
Bike looked to be black, or dark. If I saw the helmet right, it seemed to be red and silver.
Cyclist transported to hospital, they are still lookng for the driver.
Edited to add: Sure hope the cyclist is ok!
KQV radio just reported much the same details. Not much to add.
This morning Bike Pittsburgh has been contacted regarding the cyclist. We are not permitted at this time to release any personal information about him. His head and spine seemed to have checked out okay. His internal organs also have been reported as all good. The most up to date information I have is multiple fractures and stable.
I also learned there was broken glass associated the crash. The SUV in question, likely black or red, should have some visible damage. Please help keep a look out and get word to the police and keep the board updated. Thanks!
why did the post gazette say it was a pedestrian, i wonder?
ugh - stef, that is even more disturbing if true. probably a drunk driver - i think the penalties for hit and run should be at least double the worst possible offense, maybe then people would think twice before doing this.
parvipica - because it's the news? publish first, get the facts right later...
and, obviously, i hope the cyclist makes it through this ok.
Not blaming the victim, but if anybody is
riding at this hour be super vigilant and
even go out of the way to take the road way
less traveled. After driving a cab for a few
years all night, I figure that 75% of the cars
on the road at this time are impaired. After
some of the shit I saw, I was nervous in a car.
If the car carried the bike a block away from the cyclist, it's possible the police didn't immediately find the bike. Maybe the PG posted a report based on preliminary police data, before the police figured out the victim was a cyclist?
Glad it wasn't worse. Agree that the penalties for hit and run should be set to discourage, not encourage, fleeing the scene.
PS. what is 34th? would that be ligonier?
Herron ave?
34th is on the backside of the GetGo, Ligonier runs down the side, opposite Herron.
Herron/Ligonier is the light just as Liberty turns up the hill. 34th is a couple hundred feet above that, on the other side of the Quickstop (ex-GetGo).
Wow I just realized I came by this last night about 315 am coming home from polish hill. I didn't see a bike or anything but i was not really paying attention either
they must have just cleaned it up, then--I saw the bike, two or three police cruisers and a fire truck, as well as several people standing around, when I came home from the Moon drive-in a bit before 3. I thought about making a post when I got home, but decided I didn't have enough info---thanks, stefb
(in fact, now that i think about it, the ambulance I passed on liberty must've been this, too.)
Just got word the driver turned himself in. The victim is pretty badly hurt, having suffered multiple broken bones. He will have a long recovery ahead of him so please keep him in your thoughts.
Just got word the driver turned himself in
...having had time to get his story together, eliminate the alcohol from his body, etc.
This comes from the Trib Review, date stamped Sunday afternoon:
The Tribune-Review can be reached via e-mail or at 412-321-6460.
By Tribune-Review
Published: Sunday, May 13, 2012, 4:28 p.m.
Updated 8 hours ago
p>A bicyclist remained in critical condition this afternoon after an early-morning hit-and-run accident in Lawrenceville, police said.
Patrolling officers found the victim, a 23-year-old man whose name has not been released, on the ground near Liberty Avenue and Ligonier Street around 2:30 a.m., police said. He was transported to Allegheny General Hospital, North Side.
The suspect vehicle could be described only as an SUV. Accident Investigation and homicide detectives were investigating.
I wonder if it is anyone any of us know
So terrible and sad.
I hope they prosecute the shit out of the driver. The victim is actually at my place of employment.
Scott, you aren't kidding.
I'm just hoping that both the victim and perp have decent insurance.
Sounds like the medical bills are going to be costly... and I'm sure that the driver's insurance company will try to play reindeer games about culpability. "What WAS he/she doing out riding their bike at night?"
Wow, I just felt my blood pressure go up.
I'm fine in a winter rush hour commute in the dark, but I still strongly dislike biking late night/early morning on a weekend.
There is, of course, a template to follow when this sort of thing happens. What I want to know are answers to the off-template questions. For example:
* What were Points A and B for this driver?
* If this had been 6:30pm and not 2:30 am, would there have been a transit option (prior to the 3/27/2011 cuts)?
* Ask the same question for the cyclist.
* Back in the days of the UV Loop bus, would that have been a viable option for either driver or cyclist for getting from and to their respective Points A and B?
* Add up all the costs to provide EMS and police services, insured and uninsured costs of emergency care, insured and uninsured costs of recovery and rehab, legal costs of prosecution, jail and monitoring, and lost wages over time by all involved. Total= ??
* Who is paying for all this? (Hint: Don't think too hard.)
* Multiply this by N such accidents a year just in Pittsburgh. Divide by the number of such accidents that could have been averted with adequate, reliable, late-night transit service.
The answer you get also answers the question, What is the cost to society of NOT providing adequate, reliable, late-night transit service?
To simplify:
Don't drink and drive. get a designated driver if you can't use transit
Exactly.
As I said above, the penalty for hit and run should be worse than the penalty for drunk driving or whatever the worst possible traffic offense is to remove the incentive to run.
I'm glad the driver turned himself in, and I'm willing to accept that means he feels some remorse for what he did, but it doesn't change the fact that leaving someone to die on the street is a pretty cold blooded thing to do.
Unfortunately, people really do get away with things. I've got no information on what's going on with this hit-and-run, but I read of another case where a driver claimed he'd accidentally left his keys at a bar -- the car was found the next day near the site of the accident. The driver claimed no knowledge of what happened, who took his keys, etc. So, what are the police to do? Unless some witness can put the driver in the car at the time, it really is possible to clean up, get your story straight, and turn yourself in. And just increasing the hit and run penalty won't solve the problem.
This is so awful. Bpgh people, let us know if there's anything we can do for the injured rider.
Things like this make me reconsider riding a bike on the road ever again.
Interesting fact: I looked at the census for the oncall Ortho surgeon this weekend and almost all of the admitting diagnoses were MVC (motor vehicle crash). We are just one hospital.
This is absolutely horrible. Like TheLivingTed said, if there's some way people can help, I'd be glad to do so. Even the littlest stuff can be hard when injuries keep you from using all your limbs... I hope this guy has a speedy recovery (as least as speedy as is possible with his injuries)
@TheLivingTed: +Infinity
Scott, is it still the case that the driver turned him/herself in? The P-G blurb was updated recently with news that the Jeep was recovered, but no arrests have been made.
I guess this doesn't preclude the driver turning themselves in, but it doesn't sound that way from this article:
This is extremely upsetting. I have been riding through this intersection daily for the past year plus. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have several close calls.
It can get very very hairy. Crossing southbound from Ligonier to the Herron Ave. bridge is a crapshoot, especially waiting behind a line of cars. Visibility of any Ligonier traffic coming from Herron is extremely poor.
To boot, approaching Ligonier from 34th is a short, steep uphill, with moderate traffic most of the day. So any cyclists riding this stretch who would normally signal, might not due to the steep incline.
Hope the cyclist is okay.
Interesting fact: I looked at the census for the oncall Ortho surgeon this weekend and almost all of the admitting diagnoses were MVC (motor vehicle crash). We are just one hospital.
When I had my cat scan after my accident the technicians said to each other that I was the (x)th person hit by a car that day. Lots of carnage goes down daily and no one cares.
i'm really hatin' on people today.
I'll add my voice to the chorus requesting that, if possible, Bpgh let us know how we can help.
+1 ej. Best wishes to the cyclist for a speedy recovery.
I agree with the people hating. I would hate them less if they didn't all have several tons of speeding metal to ram into each other with.
This whole thing just churns my stomach in a bad way
And I seriously hope they charge whoever SOB driver of that Jeep. There has been too many instances where incidents like this are never successfully solved *remember the 3-cyclists majorly hit last year on Washington Blvd? driver was never identified.....
Is there ane "Rides of Silence" coming up?
Major Taylor club has one going from behind REI Weds at 6:30 sharp.
5 weeks ago I posted a video of a guy texting while driving and cutting me off at Ligonier and 34th (at 9:30 am in broad daylight, while driver was most likely not ripped to the gills). 34th / Liberty / Denny / Ligonier is really a bit sketchy... if descending Liberty, you need to watch for traffic coming out of either 34th or Denny... any cross street past 40th, really... but neither Denny nor 34th have great sight lines if you're in a car and trying to turn on Liberty either way, so just assume you're invisible there no matter the time of day.
The stop sign at Ligonier / 34th seems to be optional for drivers. The sharrows on 34th may lead to a false sense of security for cyclists. I don't quite get why they're on that block (connecting the Penn sharrows to the Liberty bike lane)?
It might help to understand the incident if we knew which directions the cyclist & driver were travelling in when the hit & run occurred... if the cyclist was coming down Liberty & the driver was pulling out of 34th or Denny, I could see the "accident" happening at any time of day. Part of the reason why I usually throw my front light on after 40th heading inbound no matter when it is.
Also, just to play devil's advocate, do we know for certain that the cyclist was not operating in ninja mode? I don't see a rear blinkie in the screenshot from the WPXI video below... if there's no rear blink I'm assuming there wasn't a front either. Maybe they were just blown out by the impact? Is there any assurance that the cyclist wasn't also DUI (as I'm assuming the driver was at that time of night)?
Regardless, seeing the mangled bike gives me the shivers, and I feel for the victim.
Ride like everyone wants to kill you. Perhaps not overtly, but whether DUI, driving distracted, or all-out to get you, assume as much.
Great -thanks Edmonds!
As simple & retarded as it might sound, everytime I hear about a bike accident/fatality, the only thing I think about that might be helpful is going for a ride (and a silent one at-that).
If people want more info on the ride:
Ride Of Silence Official Website
Google Calendar Info from Major Taylor
that's a lot of speculation, quizbot... probably left for later.
regardless of what the cyclist did or didn't do or whose fault it was, the driver leaving them there to die is complete crap.
I'm pretty much full on assuming that the driver was DUI and that's why they ran. If it were up to me, they'd be in jail for a loooong time, but I don't craft the rules. My questions are relevant though, particularly about operating ninja. It's part of riding legally and defensively, and we should at least advocate for the defensive part of that.
Cburch said he noticed lights on the helmet on the coverage we saw.
yeah i dont see lights in that photo....
how did he ride the bike without wheels?
Maybe the accident happened cause the bike had
no wheels
Thx steevo. I did throw it out as a possibility that the cyclists lights were blown out by the impact. Either way, as you have previously contributed in this thread, thinking about riding around at 2:30 AM in this town should at least give one pause to consider alternative routes.
The bike has been moved in that shot--it was in the street on Ligonier, near the curb across from the store, when I passed. I was driving, so I didn't exactly get a careful look for lights, etc, especially since the way the police cars had parked caused even more of a bottleneck than usual there...
Too bad the victim didn't post a helmet-cam video so we could question even more of their actions.
/sigh/ If we're being snarky with each other here, how do we stand a chance with people who REALLY disagree with us?
I think I've argued in defense of ninjas in another thread.
Granted, I think lights are a great idea and I have the first, second and third brightest tail lights commercially available,
While at the same time, I think drivers have some responsibility to see what they're driving into, even if it isn't flashing
At the moment I'm just relieved we have the car that did it, that's much more than we've got in the last several hit and runs
he was riding in a group. no ninja mode.
Oddly, the news missed the group detail. That's significant.
The trib article said that te victim was found by patrolling officers.... The one that was pasted on the first page of ths thread.
FWIW, I think quizbot's comments are relevant and productive.
Suggesting that we all could be a little more careful is good advice. And speculating on the specifics of the location (particularly the direction of the vehicles involved) is reasonable in his case because, unless I'm mistaken, quizbot works in the strip and I think rides that stretch daily.
In this case quizbot clearly has a perspective on the hot spots on this route we could all benefit from in the wake of a crash like this.
Obviously I hope that rider recovers. But in the meantime, the rest of us are out there. Having input like what quizbot is trying to provide is really helpful I think.
When I lived on Liberty, and had to bike into work at 2:30am each Saturday (Friday for everyone else), I almost got hit at this exact intersection several times. The only reason I didn't, isn't because the driver saw me and stopped, it's because I always move to the left when the bike lane ends. The drivers would see me and just keep going, as though they were trying to hit me (or at least, that's how my angry, "why am I going to work at 2:30am on a saturday grumble grumble caffeine" self saw it).
But yeah, I think that even in the bike lanes, I try to move as left as I safely can at most cross-streets....
hope the guy gets better soon.
The latest segment on KDKA news says that he was riding in a group. The jeep has been impounded and it really looks like the police are taking this very seriously and doing a thorough job with the investigation.
pretty familiar with the intersection. it's about a block from our office. his bike was dragged and found about 2 doors down from the office
this article shows the damage to the vehicle.
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/05/14/police-impound-vehicle-in-lawrenceville-hit-and-run/
i can't even imagine how fast he was driving for someone to do that to a jeep.
and please, can we drop the blaming the victim stuff here. it was a hit and run, driver stopped his vehicle to remove the bike from under the jeep, through it aside, and drove off. you're either drunk, or a very sick person, and considering the guy did the right thing and turned himself in the next day, i'm going to assume he's not sick.
Wow this guy is lucky to be alive based on the way that jeep looked hope he pulls through.
Holy shit. He must have hit him head on. Terrible.
Once again, don't assume that the driver did the right thing by turning himself in. He may well have believed he was going to get caught anyway, so he either had to go on the lam or clean himself up, get a story together, and turn himself in, possibly with an attorney in tow. I am waiting to hear more information on the driver; I hope he's confessed and will accept his punishment; but I have doubts about the motivation of someone who would do what he did at 2:30 in the morning.
I don't think anyone is blaming the victim. I'm just curious about details.
I'm guessing that either both vehicles were coming down Liberty & the jeep hit the cyclist from behind or the cyclist was coming down Liberty, jeep coming off the Herron Ave bridge and t-boned him in the intersection. So far, no news report has described what exactly happened.
Or maybe the jeep was stolen and he found it outside his house in the morning all smashed up.
Why is everyone bothering to speculate about this? Lights or not, hit from behind, or the side, whatever. When the facts come out what to you win by guessing correctly?
edit: correcting my sub-par grammar.
^+1
@Eric, fair enough. It's hard to wait for more information on this without wanting to do something, anything to help. But I agree speculation isn't helping anybody.
I actually beg to differ. I think that the early questions that were posed are important ones. In evaluating personal risk, I take certain variables into consideration -- location, traffic, anticipated driver behavior, behavior of cyclist (ninja/non; individual v. group, etc). To some extent, this discussion of "possible variables" helps me cement my understanding of the incident location, and some things about the behavior of the cyclist. That helps me form a fuller comprehension of "personal risk" that enables me to be a safer rider. Granted, not all of the comments are helpful. But, I think in posing some of the comments, we are actually just putting ourselves in the place of injured cyclists, and asking what we might have done different to avoid this tragedy. At least that's what I take from it. And, it seems to me that we as a group tend to discuss/conjecture more BEFORE we know the full details/outcome.
What do I learn from a "stuck flip flop"? That there is no certainty, and that there is risk everywhere. What do I get from "a crazy driver at Washington Boulevard near the oval?" or "a bad incident at night at 34th and Liberty"? That I will have given some thought to these specific and known dangerous locations before I ever get to them. Perhaps that information may one day save MY life. Or maybe not.
Off my soapbox on this one.
There's a huge difference between discussing "safety issues" (which is still probably better suited for a separate thread) and speculating about whether the cyclist was drunk, with or without lights, didn't know when and where to ride, etc.
Consider what would happen if you just got creamed by a car and then came to this board and read some of that crap.
I'm sorry, but how on earth can you both be:
A) Drunk enough that you can't avoid hitting a cyclist with your car AND drunk enough that you don't care and drive away,
AND
Sober enough to navigate your huge-ass vehicle away from the scene despite not being able to see out the windshield at all since it's completely destroyed from the imprint of the human you just hit.
This is what I don't get. I had more than my fair share of drunken shenanigans in college, but I still can't put those two together. Maybe I'm just uncoordinated or hyper-empathetic or both. Is there something I'm missing?
And the fact that he was riding in a group gives me even more chills. Riding in a group, I definitely feel safer and more confident that cars will see me and avoid me. Granted I'm in bed at this time, but the Drs were hit (as a group) somewhere around 8AM, a thoroughly decent time. So am I learning correctly that riding in a group does not make me safer than riding alone?
What is going on?
oh god that jeep is awful. and i know the gal the news interviewed.
again if the cyclist needs anything, please let us know. id even just make him dinner when he gets out or drive him someplace if he needs it--having unusable limbs is the worst
ejwme - probably drunk texting while drunk
driving.
I've witnessed several accidents where a driver was too drunk to drive safely, yet coherent enough to try to drive off and/or cover their tracks after the incident. Chances are that they drive drunk on a regular basis, and while their ability to drive is impaired, their awareness of the consequences, and the desire to avoid such consequences, is quite intact.
Someone plowed into my group on New Year's Day in 2009 (I wasn't with them at the time) on Mount Washington. He was too drunk to stand up straight, but he did have the wherewithal to try to escape afterwards. Fortunately no one was badly hurt and his vehicle was stranded on the curb, but it's safe to say that many drunk drivers are aware of their actions, if not their level of impairment.
fjordan - that's what I don't get at all. how can you be aware of what you did and continue to function the way that person did. I just don't understand this partial understanding that seems to be evident.
I've hit living beings exactly twice, both times sober and neither time a human. Both times I swore off ever driving again, but obviously it didn't stick. Maybe they're just mentally faster than I am at recovering from the psychological pain of physically harming another being.
+infinity to what caitlin said (i just had one unusable limb, and people still had to help me do sooo many things. i'm glad to pass it on if i can.)
+another infinity to what salty said. i totally want to know what happened just for my own curiosity and so that i can avoid ending up in the same situation, but right now i'm way more concerned about putting myself in the shoes of this guy and his family and his friends. there's no need to rub salt in their wounds by implying that this guy did something to bring this upon himself. i'm guessing they're already running those scenarios in their heads anyway, and they've already had a sufficiently shitty week. let the guy get better and talk to a lawyer, and then ask some of these questions when he can answer them himself. (not saying it's bad to ask questions and talk about it in general, but i agree with salty that some of the speculation could wait.)
The habitual drunk drivers I've met don't seem to have much capacity for empathy. I don't think they suffer much psychological pain in the first place. They seemed to more concerned about avoiding the legal and social consequences of their actions, rather than confronting the consequences on others.
I'm quite convinced that a fair number of them are sociopaths.
@fjordan, I used to install and maintain Intoalock ignition interlock systems used to try to keep habitual drunk drivers from operating their vehicles drunk and my experience makes me completely agree with you.
@ejwme I still can't put those two together.
It takes a lot of practice at being a drunken assh*le to perfect it. Sounds like a joke, but it isn't.
@Mick, true. It is quite hard to reach the legal limit and not pass out -- takes practice. To reach the limit and still be coordinated enough to drive, more or less, you pretty much have to be a habitual drunk.
Lots of assumptions, but all we really know is the driver hit someone and left the cyclist for dead. Regardless if he turned himself in or not, think about what kind of person could leave someone that they just hit? I ride at all hours due to work. I don't trust anyone and am not looking to make any statements. Cycling is transportation and a way to get where you need to go. Best to be extremely careful. Cyclists never win the battles. This Jeep driver hasn't even been charged yet. He may just kick back and have a steak dinner. Cyclists are the enemy in Pittsburgh and to be honest we are the enemy in the US. We are in shape, ride bicycles on streets not designed for us and we threaten the male egos that drive pickups and SUVs. It is what it is. We will not beat the rest of the public. We just have to watch our backs.
Channel 4 just had an update. They said that the driver could face felony or misdemeanor charges. They stressed that hit and runs are horrible. The jeep is so smashed. Ugh.
The Jeep is smashed? Um, what about they cyclist? Who cares about that POS Jeep?
Watching that Jeep just really..... UGH!!! Don't know what's worst: my anger or my disgust at the idea of what happened.
Anywho, I'm very curious to see now what charges will be made against the driver by the D.A; and what "excuses" will be put forward for this behavior.
Personally I think is very clear: Regardless of the cyclist's conditions while riding his bike, the SOB Jeep driver did-hit him hard and abandoned the scene, and that is unforgivable.
Once again hope for a quick and full recovery. And if there’s anything one can do to help –please share.
I'm curious to what happened too, be speculating about stuff like light and helmet use, etc does nothing shed light on the situation and can easily be read as victim blaming.
jonawebb, I've never taken a test to determine how close to the legal level of drunk I've been, but I'm positive that most people can get there without passing out. It is 2-3 drinks in an hour for most people.
What most likely will happen is the cyclist will remain in the hospital racking up bills and the driver of the Jeep will have a steak dinner and continue on with life. No one cares about cyclist. Just the way it is.
It takes a couple of hours to reach the legal definition of drunk @ 3 drinks per hour. I think most people would find themselves very sleepy after downing say a six pack in two hours. You really have to be an alcoholic to feel like driving.
I don't really want to argue about this, but a 160 pound dude with 4 drinks in an hour will be at or around .0846, which is over the limit.
6 Drinks in 2 hours will get to about 0.1209, well over the legal limit of .08.
While I don't drive when I do it, I've had 6 drinks in 2 hours plenty of times, remained lucid enough to pilot a car(not well, but I could manage), and I'm not an alchoholic.
The last time I rode with an inebriated driver, I do not think the driver knew how inebriated s/he was. No obvious outward signs of drunkenness, but behind the wheel, was unable to stay in lane, ran a stop sign, and was generally unsure of things. It was a good thing traffic was light and nothing bad happened. Probably had five drinks in two hours.
Just curious but can the police use bank statements or bar security video to charge the driver with a DUI?
What I was saying about the jeep was that it was smashed to the point that it had to have been going fast. I hadn't seen it until they showed it on the news, and it was shocking to think that some person's body could do that much damage to a vehicle. Poor cyclist.
Yeah, sorry stefb. Guess I am sick there is one of us in the hospital. No idea how he/she is doing? I ride my bike to and from work as well as pretty much everywhere. My work has wild hours. Yes, I can be out at 2:00AM or even 3:00AM or whatever. I ride with lights and a mirror looking at as much as I can. Guess I wonder if I am next?
I'm really glad the police and news seems to be taking this seriously. Given all the recent attention to the 4' law maybe this will connect in some people's minds and we'll get a few more people giving us some space.
My guess is that the interest is due to it being probably alcohol related, nothing to do with it being a cyclist. A driver can get away with the stupidest moves on earth, kill someone, as long as they aren't drinking.
Jonawebb, I don't think it is making the news nearly enough. It is very hard to find any info on it at all. Why? Cyclist. No one cares.
Sorry, but it is true. You better ride like they are out to get us, because you CAN murder someone on a bike and just say, oh I didn't see them. We shall see if the 4' rule helps. Lets hope so. I am not holding my breath though.
When I got to work today, coworkers who cared directly for this cyclist were asking if I had heard about it and told me more about it. Then they asked if i will continue to ride my bike to work, and I said yes. If I drive, I could easily get hit by someone, too. But people do tell me that they think of me when they are driving and pass a cyclist and they are cautious and give them room.
@boostuv - not sure about charging with DUI, but they can use that info. I know the bar can get in trouble for continuing to serve someone who's had too much. When my brother was hit (on motorcycle) by a drunk they asked the driver where he had been drinking.
hcurtis Cyclist. No one cares.
I dont' think so.
More like "Another car death? A shame. Not much we can do about it."
There are 200 - 300 car deaths each year in the greter Pittburgh area. They each get a brief mention in the new. It's generally accepted as teh price for ca travel.
Any attempt to enforce traffic laws is regarded as tyrany.
Jonawebb, I don't think it is making the news nearly enough. It is very hard to find any info on it at all. Why?
something to consider is that the victim's family might not want the attention in the news right now. articles are important for finding hit and run drivers, but they found him, and the family may just want to be left alone.
This is a very high profile cycling incident. The more that facts are withheld, the more that people are going to dig and speculate, particularly on this board. I do not find this to be surprising, considering that we're cyclists and are concerned about ourselves and one another.
I should edit my post a bit... "The more that facts are withheld" sounds as if there's intent to keep the facts from coming out, which is not what I suspect at all. "The more that facts are lacking" is closer to my thought.
@mick +1
@stefb -- by your example, you have made a group of people more conscious of cyclists on the road, and of sharing the road with us. By doing this, in your own way you have helped make it at least a little safer for all of us who share the road with your co-workers. That safety issue is what everyone on this board consitently talks about more than anything else.
Thanks for doing something you may even know you have done.
@stefb "...they think of me when they are driving and pass a cyclist and they are cautious and give them room"
I've heard this from multiple coworkers as well. I think that one of the things we can all make sure to do is friggin trumpet to the high heavens that we are bike commuters.
When a guy in a car sees "a friggin cyclist" they don't care about him or her. But then they think "hey, I wonder if that's jamesk," or "I remember the hilarious story jamesk told of almost getting killed by an SUV this morning, I will give that dude some room," and it personalizes the cyclist, and may save him or her a little trouble.
I'm guessing without bloodwork or breathalyzer they won't be charging him with DUI. It would be reason #2 behind why dunks hit and *run* (reason #1 is apparently because they are drunk).
I don't think anybody on here is actively trying to victim blame. Nothing the cyclist could have done excuses any part of the driver's behavior, and I'm pretty sure everybody on here agrees with that. I honestly think most people are just trying to wrap their heads around something horrid that happened at a time when lots of us are on our bikes, in a place that lots of us frequent. It's a normal part of human life to see something horrible and try to figure out how to avoid it.
It's painful to accept that you can't necessarily avoid it. We are not wired to take cognitive dissonance well.
@jamesk -- Agree 100%. While I didn't say it, it's the personalization that makes it work. it's a lot easier to dismiss "that frigging cyclist" when he/she is just an impersonal abstract. It's a lot harder when they remind of of someone you know, like jamesk or stefb.
And that trumpeting to the heavens -- well, in this case I think self-promotion is a pretty good thing.
It's a normal part of human life to see something horrible and try to figure out how to avoid it.
additionally, while no one consciously wants to blame the victim, it may be an unavoidable component of convincing oneself that "it can't happen to me."
a teeny bit more info in this article.
http://www.wpxi.com/news/news/local/hit-and-run-involving-car-cyclist/nN49q/
this makes my stomach turn:
Authorities said officers have interviewed the owner of the Jeep, but he has not been arrested. The owner told officers that he knew he hit something, but didn’t know what.
“This is a pretty serious case and we get a lot of these hit-and-runs. He said he didn’t realize he hit something, but if you look at the damage he knew he hit something,” Police Sgt. Dan Connolly said.
If you want to see examples of victim blaming, head over to the comments section on WTAE's article regarding the hit and run. Hopefully the victim makes a full recovery and hopefully more people will continue to support BikePGH's great advocacy efforts to educate folks (on both 2 wheels and 4) and make our streets safer. I am impressed with what has been accomplished but unfortunately, from what I've seen, there are still quite a few people who think bikes shouldn't be allowed on the road at all and somehow cyclists themselves are to blame for incidents such as this. Stay safe and be vigilant out there!
The owner told officers that he knew he hit something, but didn’t know what.
I wonder if pulling the bike out of the grill of his car gave him an inkling?
It sounds like he's at least admitted to driving the car during the accident, so that's progress.
Any one know when a situation like this becomes "attempted manslaughter"?
Guy thought he hit something, given the damage to the jeep he must have known it was big.... and just leaves?
To me that goes beyond DUI or reckless driving or failing to follow the 4 foot rule.
*If* he were claiming that he didn't know he hit something, I might actually be more forgiving. There have been accidents where the driver had a brain tumor and didn't realize they'd hit something.
But this? This is just so wrong you can almost feel it in the air.
WAIT... did I hear right on that WTAE news clip and it wasn't the driver who called police? BUT his mother? Meaning that if it wasn't for her, it might have taken longer to catch the driver???
Hooray for this Mom, and whatever goodwill I had for the deiver for turning himself in is TOTALLY gone.... I hope he gets persecuted to the full extent of the law!
@dcm229 If you want to see examples of victim blaming, head over to the comments section on WTAE's article regarding the hit and run.
There is some victim blaming there, but unlike in similar articles, say, 5 years ago, there are reasoned and powerful responses to each thing a idiot writes and there are only a few fools.
Suspect turned in by his mom... on Mother's Day.
@Quizbot... yeap. How sad!!!!
That should become a PSA, along the lines of... "Don't be a reckless driver, having your Mom call the police to turn you in for running a cyclist is NOT a great Mother's Day present....."
I would feel more confident if this driver had been caught rather than turned in. It seems that the impression that drivers can get away with hitting a cyclist or pedestrian if they flee could potentially encourage this behavior even more. He obviously has no conscience but do you think he may havbe been less likely to flee if he had known he couldn't get away with it? I don't know...just wondering what others think.
Besides my disgust for the guy driving the Jeep, I’m really upset with the quality of the journalism with these news stories. It is reported that the cyclist was riding in a group, yet there are no quotes or paraphrasing from any of them as to what happened. Usually if a witness to crime does not want to go on camera they show their feet or some such while they are interviewing them. Why not with this case? First person interviews are very powerful. They interviewed the lady who lives nearby, why not those who surely saw what happened?
Maybe the people who were riding with him are declining interviews for legal reasons? I'm guessing any lawyer would tell this guy and his friends not to talk about it to anyone right now. If that's the case, though, I'm still a little surprised they aren't at least reporting something to the effect of "Witnesses declined to be interviewed"
It is reported that the cyclist was riding in a group, yet there are no quotes or paraphrasing from any of them as to what happened.
well, the trial happens in a courtroom, not in the media or public opinion. if the family wants privacy, that should trump anything. the media is probably reporting what they got. i'm sure once charges are filed there will be more info for the media
Authorities said officers have interviewed the owner of the Jeep, but he has not been arrested. The owner told officers that he knew he hit something, but didn’t know what.
“This is a pretty serious case and we get a lot of these hit-and-runs. He said he didn’t realize he hit something, but if you look at the damage he knew he hit something,” Police Sgt. Dan Connolly said.
These police statements are directly contradictory. Did the driver say both these things? Or did the police mischaracterize whatever he said for the press? Or did the reporter misparaphrase?
The officer is saying, "If you look at the damage, he must have known he hit something, even though he said he didn't."
Right, but I'm talking about the two parts I italicized, which are about what the owner said he knew (not what he must have known).
1. [The owner said] he knew he hit something.
2. [The owner said] he didn’t realize he hit something.
A human suddenly crashing halfway through your front window should probably be some sort of clue that maybe you hit something. Seriously, WTF.
If you visit the accident scene and find the skid marks and observe the patterns of green spray paint on the road and sidewalk, you should be able to get a fairly clear indication of what happened.
I was there after 6pm tonight and found the stem cap and bolt from the headset, at least 100 feet from what I'm guessing was the point of impact. Why this wasn't found by investigators is beyond me. If someone who is involved in the investigation would like the part, please PM me. Given that the headset bolt was completely separated from the rest of the bike, you can likely imagine the force of impact. Horrifying does not begin to describe things. My thoughts are with the victim and his family. Stay safe people. It could happen to any one of us.
@kelw -- he did get away with it for a while. He might have gotten away with it for longer, maybe forever -- except for his mother.
+1 cdavey
@quizbot. Please stop by the office and drop it off or get in touch with the police. We're in touch with the family and they would appreciate any evidence that is found to be turned over to investigators. Thanks.
There are a few similarities with the incident described in the following website, although that driver claimed that she knew she hit something, just not someone: http://www.ohiobikelawyer.com/bike-law-101/2012/04/why-do-motorists-hit-cyclists-run-because-30-days-is-better-than-4-8-years/
Let's hope this case has a more suitable resolution.
@cdavey, that's exactly what I was thinking. It's a failure on multiple levels to stop crimes like this. What is even more unfortunate is that it doesn't show any signs of changing.
Ifr I could change one law for bicyclists? Oddly, it wouldn't be a "bike" law.
It would be the law that treats hit-and-run as less than having an intoxicated accident.
@kelw What is even more unfortunate is that it doesn't show any signs of changing.
I think the penalty for hit and run is worse than the penalty for drunken driving resulting in an accident -- unless I'm misunderstanding the law. It's a bit complicated since there are different levels. But hit and run varies from first degree misdemeanor to third degree felony with at least one year imprisonment and a fine of $2,500, depending on whether there is bodily injury or death. Drunken driving resulting in an accident varies from 48 hours in jail + a fine of $500-$5,000 to at least 1 year's imprisonment plus a fine of $1,500-$10,000, depending on which offense (first through fourth or more). See http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter38.pdf and http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter37.pdf.
But honestly I don't think the exact penalties matter that much. I don't think the driver in this case was thinking, if I stop and help the guy who just crashed into my windshield I'll face at most three months in jail vs. if I drive off I'll face a year. I don't think he was thinking that clearly. He was just focused on getting away from there as fast as possible.
probably not much has changed, but I've been thinking about this individual and those surrounding him a lot the past couple of weeks. hope everything is going as well as possible.
+1
+1. When I saw this topic pop up again I thought, not another one. It's a relief that it's just heartfelt good wishes. No news is good news.
Edit: sh*t
then you probably don't want to read this thread: http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/2nd-crash-at-liberty-and-ligonier-34th-in-11-days
We've alerted everyone we work with in the City about the problems at this intersection and have a meeting to talk about it next Tuesday. We've already made 3 recommendations and so far the city has not told us no. They seem to be open to finding a solution to this horribly problematic intersection. We'll keep you updated.
Also, in terms of the crash victim from 2 weeks ago. He is still in the hospital, but is improving after a handful of surgeries. That's all we can officially share for now because of the family's wishes for this to remain private. I wish we could tell you more.
*sends more well wishes and good vibes into the ether in his and his family's direction*
Good to hear about progress for the victim. Also good to hear that the city seems to be taking the issues at this intersection seriously.
This is so terrible. I agree with Stu's first comment, about societal choices being a major cause of the accident. The trauma the cyclist is going through, as well as the terrible impact on the driver's life, did not have to happen. Yes, the driver is responsible for looking out for bikes (and not drinking and driving, and not doing a hit and run). But these kinds of accidents are completely predictable and common in cities without convenient and affordable 24-hour a day mass transit AND safe biking options including raising awareness by encouraging everyone to bike. In the Netherlands, and Denmark, and other areas with great mass transit and lots of bikers, a lot of people don't even wear helmets yet bicycling is super safe. Reading about this accident fires me up about wanting to get more bike-friendly laws passed and to support better mass transit here.
There are 200 - 300 car deaths each year in the greter Pittburgh area. They each get a brief mention in the new. It's generally accepted as teh price for ca travel.
I'm in Houston for a wedding, and was a passenger in the car my girlfriend was driving along the freeway. We were in a paint-separated HOV lane (pause a moment to meditate on the absurdity that here, "high-occupancy" mean "greater than one") when a SUV started to drift over from the lane to our right. I was thinking that this driver was kind of close; getting a little too close; really, really too close for comfort and then finally I said something and she reacted just as it became obvious that he was trying to do a no-signal lane change right into us. We swerved a little and honked, and I was a bit shaken, but there was no contact and we proceeded on with the day. We passed the SUV again and of course the knucklehead driver was chatting away on his cell phone.
I was still upset about it some ten minutes later, but she said I should calm down; that it didn't bother her at all and that it happens all the time.
I guess I'm just not cut out for life in the suburbs.
Just a heads up, North Allegheny's prom is tonight at the Omni William Penn, Downtown. The kids won't be drinking (one would hope), but a good many will be driving in the city for the first time, at night, possibly in heels (for the female drivers, anyway). Chances are excellent there will be two couples in any given car, and lots of conversation. Even if it's a parent behind the wheel, chances are non-zero s/he is half asleep after getting out of bed to drive in from Wexford after midnight.
Translation: Even if sober and not trying to text, some of these drivers will be impaired or distracted anyway.
Anyone know what ever happened in this case? Never even heard if the Jeep driver was charged. Also, is the cyclist okay? Odd how such a huge accident happens with a Jeep that shows the driver was deliberate, yet this is swept under the rug? Maybe I am looking in the wrong place, but if anyone has a link, please post it. I am hoping the driver is charged and the cyclists is okay, but judging by those pictures of that Jeep, I don't know what to think.
We're on this. Expect to see some reporting on it soon.
http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/06/29/underwear-bike-ride-raises-money-for-hit-run-victim/
I guess the victim is on the mend at least. Just didn't know about charges. Thanks for being "on this". It really is important and I hope a message is clearly sent. I emailed a reporter the first broke the story and asked for a followup on the cyclist's condition and what charges if any have been filed.
By "on it" i meant we've been working with the victim, his family, and media.
There was some talk of the matter at the meeting last night.
Does anyone know if the Jeep owner has formally been charged? I mean is he in jail after hitting a cyclist and they just leaving the scene? Seems like it is better to leave the scene if you are drunk. Might as well save yourself. That is if you can sleep at night after almost killing someone and leaving them for about dead.
no he has not been charged yet, but we have no reason to believe he will not be charged. one of the reporters i talked to said the lab has a 4-6 week lag time on getting toxicology and DNA analyses back. I know that the police were forming a case partially around those two things. the story we're working on will bring all of this to light.
Wow, look at that Jeep and there is NO formal charge yet!!!!! Do cyclists have any rights at all? I think we as cyclists need to protest this crap. How can you have a jeep look like that and calmly say, oh I didn't know I hit someone and kick back eating steak and lobster while some cyclist is critically injured? It is sad what we will accept. It would be great if we send a message to the powers that be on this. I am up for it, if anyone knows how. This is pretty sad. If you get caught drinking and driving you get thrown in jail. Hit some guy on a bike and have your car smashed to the point it is more that obvious, you don't go to jail, you can go eat sushi. If someone hits anyone, it is no doubt better NOT to call police. It is much better to flee. That is a fact. The guy in the Jeep is smart and knew much more than I. I never knew the laws were so against cyclists and walkers. Guess if I was an attorney I would advice all people to run from accidents they have. Deal with it later!
The offense could be "Accident Involving Death or Personal Injury (failure to stop)" which in the PA Code is §3742(b)(1) which has an Offense Gravity Score of "3". A "3"is a Class 1 Misdemeanor that has a maximum penalty of five years.
I couldn't find the minimum...
Minimum is probably no steak for a week. A DUI is worse than what this driver is going to get. You all know it and so do I. It is what it is. Hope the cyclist makes a full recovery. He has been on the mend for a long time. Might never be the same, but lets hope so.
Buried in this week's 'legislative update' from the PA House Democratic Caucus was this tidbit:
Bill to close hit-and-run loophole ready for governor's signature
Legislation long championed by state Rep. Phyllis Mundy to remove a legal incentive for drunk drivers to flee the scene of an accident is on its way to the governor.
"I have introduced and reintroduced legislation to close this loophole since a fatal hit-and-run accident in my legislative district in 2007," said Mundy, D-Luzerne. "This legislation is long overdue, and I'm pleased that it finally has passed both the House and Senate."
The driver who caused the fatal 2007 accident admitted to drinking the night of the accident, but police were unable to test her blood-alcohol level because of the amount of time that had elapsed between the accident and when she was taken into custody. The driver ended up receiving a lesser sentence because the penalty for a hit-and-run offense resulting in fatality is lower than a drunken driving accident resulting in fatality.
Full roundup here (no anchors, of course, so you'll have to scroll down...).
Full expanded release from Mundy's office here.
http://www.pahouse.com/pr/120021109.asp
"A drunk driver who hits someone and takes off, and is later tried and convicted on a hit-and-run charge, receives a lesser punishment than he would had he stayed at the scene to render assistance or simply faced up to what he did," Mundy said. "This loophole makes no sense from a legal standpoint, and it certainly makes no sense to victims and their families."
Mundy’s proposed legislation would increase the maximum sentence for a hit-and-run accident where death or serious bodily injury occurs by reclassifying such a crime as a second-degree felony. She said a weightier sentence would be in accordance with the seriousness of the offense.
"Leaving the scene of a car accident is not to be taken lightly, and a more severe penalty would make sure that people understand that the justice system will hand down a sentence that matches the severity of the crime," Mundy said.
A Second Degree Felony is a max of 10 years and $25,000 fine.
It's interesting the Colorado just passed a similar law.
Here's a nice story about the law in Colorado.
New York tried, but failed. Though will reintroduce the bill in the next session.
I'd like to take credit for this but something tells me it's probably been in the works longer than this: http://bike-pgh.org/bbpress/topic/end-hit-and-run-loophole
ok, not to belabor the point, but since the "incident" took place before the loophole got closed, but the loophole is in sentencing (not defining a new crime), and the guy hasn't been charged or sentenced, this means the loophole closure has the potential to catch this guy, right?
I think that's a good thing... pending actual charges. I'm encouraged they're taking their time to try and do this right. I'm discouraged that "their time" takes so frigging long. I'm trying to hold out hope without overly optimistic expectations.
No matter what, hearing his dad speak at the meeting has me hopeful that in the grand scheme of things, cycling will still win. It sounds like Dan's an awesome cycling advocate in no small part because he's got such an awesome, supportive family.
Laws do not apply retroactively in the US - that would be really bad in general.
that's why I was checking - it's not defining a new crime, simply modifying the sentencing for an existing crime. Since this particular driver hasn't received his sentencing yet, that's the question.
If he'd already been sentenced, it wouldn't apply retroactively. But since he hasn't been charged, I'd expect this change in sentencing to be able to affect him.
Unless I'm reading it completely wrong, and "reclassifying" a crime is redefining it, and he'd only be able to be sentenced under the old definition which has a lesser sentence as a maximum?
Update: Look for an article in the P-G about Dan on Thursday. Not sure if it will include a reference to the new bill on Corbett's desk.
@ejwme - that is also not allowed (note this decision is from 1798): http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?navby=CASE&court=US&vol=3&page=386
I will state what laws I consider ex post facto laws, within the words and the intent of the prohibition. 1st. Every law that makes an action , done before the passing of the law, and which was innocent when done, criminal; and punishes such action. 2nd. Every law that aggravates a crime, or makes it greater than it was, when committed. 3rd. Every law that changes the punishment, and inflicts a greater punishment, than the law annexed to the crime, when committed. 4th. Every law that alters the legal rules of evidence, and receives less, or different, testimony, than the law required at the time of the commission of the offence, in order to convict the offender.
it's worth noting that sometimes it's best that they didn't file charges yet.
since everyone has a right to a speedy trial, if there is a need to build a case, it makes sense to hold off on filing charges since the that's when the clock starts ticking. it gives the prosecution more time to build the case against the offender. if they don't think that the dude is a flight risk, and the trial is going to take a long time no matter what, there's really no hurry.
So, just to clarify, not only has he not been sentenced, he has not been charged? Does that still have any effect on whether this new law applies in this case?
I think he's more of a driving risk than a flight risk
How about we have him turn in his license?
I think time and place is fixed. So any charges that could be applied to him is also from the time when crime has been committed.
The driver had already lost his license due to a prior DUI. A lot of good that did.
The 214 year old supreme court case I cited earlier seems pretty clear that the time the crime is committed is what is relevant.
The article came out today, and I think it turned out well. Please put some nice comments at the end of the article. I'd like to load it with positivity.
Just learned the driver of the car in question turned himself in. We're trying to verify.. http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/Car-missing-mirror-sought-in-Squirrel-Hill-pedestrian-hit-and-run/-/10927008/15276952/-/m4498wz/-/index.html
Top. Let's keep leaving lots of positive messages in the comments section of the PG article!
@ejwme: re: ex post facto laws, imagine the case where i get caught doing something that is a summary offense, say, an open container violation. but someone doesn't like me, or they want to make an example out of me, so they up the gravity of the crime to a misdemeanor with jail time. i committed the offense thinking that if i got caught, i would face a minor penalty, because that was the law at the time. instead, i might go to jail, which i could not have known would be possible at the time the offense was committed. this would not, and should not, fly in the united states, and is rightly considered to be an ex post facto law.
I've also been clicking "like" like mad on everyone's comments - well, everyone but two anyways... but so far the ratio has been great and even the dumb comments haven't been that offensive. Keep the positive comments rolling.
Just learned the driver of the car in question turned himself in. We're trying to verify.. http://www.wtae.com/news/local/allegheny/Car-missing-mirror-sought-in-Squirrel-Hill-pedestrian-hit-and-run/-/10927008/15276952/-/m4498wz/-/index.html
I just watched this video and noticed the mirror of the vehicle was left at the scene. They didn't bother to take the part numbers off the mirror to cross reference what vehicle it came off of? That's pretty pathetic.
New law takes effect in 60 days (maybe 59) http://www.repdavereed.net/NewsItem.aspx?NewsID=14823
^^ Like
What ever happened to the charges against the Jeep Driver?
?, Um no I am wondering what happened to the Jeep driver in the hit and run in Lawrenceville. Not this recent murder. The guy in Lawrenceville survived and there were supposed to be charges filed on the hit and run Jeep driver a while back. It would be nice if we kept at this and followed up if they even charge the guy. I mean he ran over someone and left the scene. Just happens the bike rider actually surveyed this time around. I think it is best we never forget this stuff.
hcurtis, read all the way til the end of the article to find the info
Also, seeing as how Dan, the cyclist hit on Liberty, works for Bike Pgh, I'm pretty sure everything is being handled properly and we will know as a community as soon as there is news that is appropriate to share publicly.
did you not read the article? we're doing everything we can to keep this in the media and the pressure on to charge the driver.
I heard that Dan wrote an article recenently about his medical care, but I can't find it online. Anyone have a link?
"Still, this year has not been without its troubling cases. In May, cyclist Dan Yablonsky, 23, was struck head-on by a Jeep as he rode with friends on Liberty Avenue in Lawrenceville. He suffered serious injuries -- a ruptured aorta, severe cuts and many broken bones.
Police found the Jeep that fled the scene, though no charges have been filed in the case. Sgt. Connolly said the investigation continues, as trace evidence from the scene is being processed at the crime lab.
Hit-and-run investigations can take months to complete, even after a suspect is identified. The wait can further frustrate and confound cyclists, Mr. Bricker said.
"We have to put everything together first," Sgt. Connolly said. "We investigate a crash, determine what happened and then assign blame."
Applying for and obtaining search warrants, backups at the county crime lab, and gathering evidence often takes more time in accident investigations than in other major cases, the sergeant said."
+1 to Bike-Pgh and Scott for applying the right pressure in the right amount to the right people to make the right things happen.
All this is in stark contrast to Flip Flop Boy, still unidentified publicly and AFAIK uncharged with any serious crime after 26 months, and the bungled handling of Dr. Varacallo's killer. Whoever ran down the two doctors in 2011 is still at large AFAIK.
I'm sure there are many others.
Did anyone else read this? Thinking what I'm thinking? http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/local/region/cameras-record-license-plates-in-a-snap-646653/
If you're thinking that it's bone chilling to have the DHS constantly scanning license plates in the insanely remote hope of catching a terrorist on Braddock avenue, then, yes.
On the contrary, I'm thinking had this camera been placed at the corner of Penn and S.Braddock instead, we wouldn't still be searching for a murderer. In fact, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the white car had come from this direction just minutes earlier, but I doubt we're going to be that lucky.
I hope you're right. But human beings are stupid and corruptible animals, people have never shown their ability to use any new technology for it's better purposes. The bicycle is one of the only things mankind has devised that has shown itself to be nearly incorruptible. Bicycles give me hope. Apologies for the philosophizing.
No apology necessary. I'm always up for a good debate, and you are entitled to your opinion. I just think putting faith in humans to do the right thing has also proven ineffective. If we are against technological advances like these cameras, while as a society keeping on our path to defund government (meaning fewer police officers among other things), then what recourse do we have to find and prosecute criminals like the person who hit James Price?
On the heels of something like a hit and run, stolen car incident, or major drug trafficking bust, this sort of thing always sounds like a useful idea, but at what cost?
And, could the data actually be retrieved and used to pursue and charge the criminals?
My cynical view is that -- just like the "war" on drugs -- someone is making a ton of money with these cameras [let's see who makes them and what super pacs they contribute to]. They are used to hassle people who are "between the law" - immigrants and people of color or the data parsed for nefarious demographic purposes, etc. Plus the problem that once these things are in, if crime ever goes away too much, the surveillance companies profits go down.
Before BikePGH heralds the news of this new technology, can we figure out if this info could even be used? Thousands of cars go past these intersections each day, and if the crime doesn't happen in front of the camera, how does the data get processed and by whom and with what subpoena? Does someone find every white sedan that passed from every direction, then track down each car in each driveway and try and make a link to who was driving the car (the owner? a thief?).
A neighbor and I were able to find a car that hit and run causing damage to both our vehicles. We had a partial plate number and a missing chunk of the person's car. We even called the cops while the person was driving away drunk with a flat tire. In the end, it was the insurance companies, not the cops, who pursued the matter.
I kind of want to vomit that this is how some of the Levis money is being used in Braddock. I may not know the full story but I thought the $ was for community enrichment. They lost their hospital but I guess now Fetterman can protect them from cartels? Or what? //end soapbox
[edited to add links]
Article says the police in Swissvale can indeed zoom in to see the driver's image. Their primary reservation seems to be internal abuse of the system to track girlfriends & wives.
+1 Psuda - although the horse is already out of the barn on this one. There are cameras all over the South Side, East Liberty, North Side, etc. The only difference is that they are not HD nor equipped with the automatic lookup feature. And most municipalities in the area have in-car cameras that do this from their squad cars. All of these cameras are operating under different “guidelines.” I’m amazed that there hasn’t been a backlash to the new parking meters that require you to enter your license plate number. Can a divorce attorney subpoena this data? With proper oversight and enforceable laws you may be able to persuade me that cameras are a good thing, but for now I’m a no.
I hope they catch the SOB who did this! And it will most likely be a tip from a neighbor/mechanic that will make all of the difference.
@marko Ha, its funny you should bring up divorce attorneys because I was trying to find out who owns the generically-named "Surveillance Group" and one of the many companies with a similar name specializes in "domestic infidelity."
I did not know that the new meters ask for plate numbers. I've only used the ones where you type in the space number. That always annoys me because I like the idea of handing off my leftover time (since it has already been paid for!) to the next person who is trawling for a spot.
Probably divorce attorneys could get the data depending on the divorce laws of each state.
I hope the SOB turns him/herself in. But I think you are right that it will probably be a tipster.
I'm definitely on the "too 1984" side on this. As terrible as this kind of stuff is I am not willing to put the entire country under constant surveillance to "prevent" it, if such a thing is even possible. I have very mixed feelings about even wearing a helmet cam personally, much less feeding all this video to the government in real-time.
Also - so what if they catch the drivers?
What happened to the person who killed Don Parker? Nothing.
What happened to the person who killed Albert Varacallo? Nothing.
What happened to the person who killed Rui Hui Lin? I don't know because the media stopped covering the story, but...
I happen to know a bit about what happened to "flip flop boy". On last year's ride of silence I met someone who works for the DA. He himself reviewed the case and was willing to do the prosecution if he thought it was warranted (and as a cyclist he was inclined to look carefully for evidence of violation of the law). But he concluded it wasn't. Sometimes an accident really is just a mistake. (I don't more than this -- not a lawyer etc. but this guy was.)
Jonawebb- thanks for relating that. From the outside it's too easy (for me, anyway) to ascribe inertia and indifference to the lack of prosecution, it's good to hear the backstory - particularly with a cyclist/ADA making the judgement call. It definitely does increase my comfort level with the decision. Cheers V.
I believe the man who killed Rui Hui Lin also got away with nothing (maybe a insignificant fine, which compared to someones life, I consider it nothing). Though, he did at least go to trial.
While a large part of me is against red-light cameras, I wonder if it would prevent hit/run, or at least give the authorities a fighting chance at finding the vehicle in question.
No disrespect, but on the (tangential) subject of surveillance of innocent populations:
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin
Related: PanoptiBurgh
I knew about these cameras last year, we discussed them at an Edgewood council meeting. I believe Wilkinsburg, Swissvale and Edgewood police have access to them from their car laptops. They prevented me from painting a rouge crosswalk at Braddock and Sanders. 
@salty: " I have very mixed feelings about even wearing a helmet cam".
I'm curious why you have such reservations. You have every right to gather a video or photo record of what happens in public. If someone hits & runs you, at least you'd have something, which is better than nothing as it is in most cases.
My problems with helmet cams is only administrative. Depending on the unit you have to change or charge the batteries. Most save the video to a memory card which you have to remove and wipe every day. You have to remember to turn it on. And some can be heavy on your helmet.
All these inconveniences are things that have made my use of a helmet cam sporadic. I'll use it for a while but will forget one thing or another. Those things build up to the point that I'm not using it any more. A unit that would automatically overwrite old files would be a tremendous first step towards consistent usage.
@vennevar: great blog post. locutus barney fife is a nice touch, too.
there are some mobile video camera units (big, obvious, bright orange things with large solar panels on them) that got placed at forbes & murray and at forward & beechwood recently. i think theyre there to watch traffic detoured around squill tunnel work on 376, but it still gave me the creeps. the potential for abuse is too high, imnsho.
i hope i dont have to rely on one of these systems one day, i will feel pretty miserable about it.
