BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I always think of this when I see green lanes http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZJ--IPg7Hs Edit: Hmm, link wont work. It's a muppet movie clip.

interestingly the big giant headline reads "$135,000 for bikes", yet the actuall amount to be spent is $23,000 with the lion's share spend on education (probably tv commercials.) can't wait to read the p-g feedback on this one. #facepalm but on the plus side, drivers will know where to aim .... where to avoid the bikes.

can’t wait to read the p-g feedback on this one. #facepalm

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Have you seen how quickly the paint has worn off of liberty inbound between the intersection with the Bloomfield bridge/main street and 40th street? Hoping a color painted on the ground will make a difference and I hope this new paint doesn't come off as quickly. This is great news though.

Excellent news.

It would be nice to know how much it costs to paint the regular lines in the street for comparison or the cost of car/bike accidents where the green bike lane is going for comparison

Yay! I'm excited about this.

The paint will last longer if they stop the f#n cars from driving on it... But this is super cool!

Can a painted lane be safe to ride on? Is that a common thing? I usually avoid painted areas as they seem slippery.

@TeamDecaf - I was curious about this as well. Google yielded me this. http://www.ccwlawyers.com/blog/2011/10/san-francisco-repainting-green-bike-lanes.shtml

@Elmo Sand is much better than just paint. But it wears out quickly if cars drive on it. :( Colored asphalt is a target! https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=eaE4KOZzQOg

I would hope that the contractor -- and the spec-writer -- do their homework and realize that Pittsburgh is hardly the first place on the planet to do this. I do not know if an industry-wide best practices document has been written, but if we can figure this out, so should those who are closer to the action. I guess I'd start with Steve Patchan. If he isn't it, he would know who knows.

I also avoid paint on wet days. Not a fan of this idea, but if they add sand, it probably will be okay. I have added sand to paint for this reason and it works very well as far as foot traffic, but the sand has to be very evenly spread. If you miss a little spot, you will go down like a sack of potatoes. I personally would rather see money spent on painting white lines on free for all roads, like up through the zoo and down Butler Street from the zoo down to Lawrenceville. I hate free for all roads and the occasional idiot that makes it a 4 lane highway behind me as I am trying to ride my bike.

Paint isn't an issue in the wet. Thermoplastic is. The trick is being able to tell the difference in traffic, at speed, with crap falling from the sky. One wild place is a clusterfuck and is going to need a lot more engineering than a simple white line or two.

I feel like I'm daft, but I couldn't figure out where on liberty they plan to put this. Liberty spans from downtown to shadyside. Does anyone know where the green lane is actually going to be placed?

this is right around the bloomfield bridge, where there is the crossing (outbound) onto the bridge ramp. also, this came from a grant from bikes belong to specifically do green lanes, so it's not like the money could be used for anything but green lanes. or to put another way, it's not taking money from other projects

Awesome. I hope it will deter some people from casually using the bike lane as a bypass for outbound traffic waiting at the light to turn right on to the bridge.

via twitter from @infinitebuffalo Where exactly is this -- I don't recognize this intersection.

Base of the Bloomfield Bridge, heading into town.

Elmo wrote:Where exactly is this — I don’t recognize this intersection

Inbound Liberty at Ella---Shursave is on the right, Del's just out of the picture on the left; the dark brick building in the middle-left background is BBT. The truck in the middle-right background is on the cutover from Liberty to NB Main St. (The picture is actually from p.leon, btw.)

Thanks -- now it makes sense. Very excited for this. Will make Liberty a much more bike friendly place and hopefully prevent cars from taking up precious bike lane space.

here's some context: http://localhost/2013/04/30/liberty-ave-bike-lanes-going-green-at-the-bloomfield-bridge-and-main-st-intersections-in-bloomfield/

can we get retractable teeth like in fancy surface lots? weighted for say a thousand pounds of pressure. that would keep the jagoffs out of the lane...

This is really awesome to see. Is the green paint retroreflective? It looked sparkly from the outbound lane on the way home tonight. Will give a closer look tomorrow. Hoping they take that nice fresh white striping down to 38th and back... the lane really needs some definition after the winter & wear.

Something that makes me want to take a ride on liberty. Well I never.

quizbot - this crew is only working on the green bike lane. please 311 the striping.

I'll test the retroreflectivity thing later tonight.

It didnt seem to be retroreflective. There was only a small area done and it looked sparkly.

grit for grip!

I did put in a 311 ticket for striping between the bridge and 40th for what it's worth. That was about a week or two ago.

(posted on FaceBook too, sorry for a cross-posting fauxpas) Since I'm a fair approximation of the mythic "LCDEU" (lowest common denominator end user), I have a question about the new Liberty Avenue green bike lane WHICH I LOVE. What does a green bike lane signify? Does it have any legal status? Mandatory, Wishful, Aspirational? Can a driver use it if they want to? What law says No? Would a driver get a ticket for using it? What would be the offense? How is a Yinzer supposed to know what this new green thing is? Where is the education / communication campaign? Shirley they can't believe, "If we paint it things will change?" I figure if I don't get it, probably lots of folks don't get it and I don't need to be using it with one set of assumptions while Driver Joe has another set. Anybody got facts? Thanks in advance. V. ----- Not trolling. I just really don't know what that green thing means. I also understand that the instant (or the season) of change is bumpy, and so you build one, brief it, explain it, build another, and in three years half the people will understand it. But for me, today, I have no idea what that green thing means unless it's March 17th. so I wouldn't be trusting it

Someone from Bike PGH correct me if I am wrong. Because of the way that intersection is designed — like a highway off ramp — it gives drivers an extra cue to look twice before they turn across the lane.

Yep, that's it. It just adds much more visibility to the bike lane especially in "conflict" areas where cars are moving across a bike lane.

So, a car driving across the green bike lane isn't breaking any laws? (other than the way our parents taught us to behave)

I'm also curious about this--I know there's a statute that says if a bike lane exists, cyclists can't ride on the sidewalk, but I know of no others offhand regarding bike lanes...

Good overview article about SF and Portland areas - http://www.mercurynews.com/traffic/ci_20567909/green-bike-lanes-spreading-across-bay-area Highlights: - A report found that 92 percent of motorists now yield to bicyclists compared with 72 percent before. And, perhaps more significantly, 87 percent of drivers now slow down compared with 71 percent before. - "We noticed that motorists making the right turn from southbound Scott to westbound Monroe tended to drive in the bicycle lane (too soon), but after installation, that behavior was completely eliminated," said city traffic engineer Dennis Ng. Also thought this was cool: Green paint is also being used to outline what are called "bike boxes" in an attempt to eliminate right-hook crashes. Those occur when a driver races ahead of a bicyclist and at the last moment suddenly veers into the bike lane to turn right. This puts a bicyclist who has the right of way at great risk of slamming into the side or rear of the turning car and is a leading cause of bicycling deaths when a vehicle is involved. At red lights, only bicyclists can stop in the boxes. Vehicles must line up behind them. When the boxes are green, more seem to know the rules.

Vannevar, no car can ever drive along (on top of) a bike lane as if it were a car lane, but of course cars can cross bike lanes to make turns unless otherwise noted. Check out the design in person and it will make sense.

I love the fact that this is so bright it looks photoshopped. Checked it out today and it's not any dimmer in person.

Scott, I do appreciate the answer. I get the intent, and I don't mean to be pedantic - but what is the legal authority that says, Cars Can't Drive There? Is there some legal basis for "no car can drive on top of a bike lane"? It's wonderful to have this paved green bike lane. I get the goal of increased visibility and raised consciousness. But it's not authoritative, is it? Here's part of the reason I'm chewing on this. Portland Finds Bike Boxes May Double Crashes. Seems counter-intuitive, but when Portland painted bike boxes at 11 intersections that were problems for right-hook crashes, the number of crashes doubled. Initial analysis suggests that bicyclists emboldened by the painted boxes were cruising through stale green lights and overtaking cars that right-hooked them, whereas the green boxes were designed to prevent right hooks as red lights first turn to green. Clarity and definition can be important as a new thing is introduced. I love the green bike lane, I just want to know what it really is. Compliments to all who brought us this great new thing.

Vannevar wrote:Is there some legal basis for “no car can drive on top of a bike lane”?

I think it's Title 75 3309(3):

(3) Lanes limited to specific use.--Official traffic-control devices may be erected to restrict the use of specified lanes to specified classes or types of traffic or vehicles, including multioccupant vehicles or car pools, and drivers of vehicles shall obey the directions of every such device.

Official traffic-control devices include "Signs, signals, markings and devices..." according to section 102 of that title.

@V, best comment after that article - "Having been hit at 11th and Hawthorne by a right hook I can tell you with confidence that the bike boxes do nothing if the driver of a car will look you in the eye and turn anyway." I like the added visibility of the green paint, but you still need to have your head on a swivel.

No one's ever gone wrong by underestimating the observational powers of the American driver (with apologies to HL Mencken). I rode down Liberty yesterday--the lane looks great! @Marko82, how are you feeling??

^ like I should be riding my bike. But it hurt just putting the wheel on, so I havent. Shouldnt it be raining? Baahh

Marko82 wrote:^ like I should be riding my bike. But it hurt just putting the wheel on, so I havent. Shouldnt it be raining? Baahh

Isit a recumbent bike time?

The City wants to hear from you about the green lane. Call the mayor's office and thank them and ask for more! Or simply submit a thank you to 311, but that won't go to the mayor's office that will go to Planning and/or DPW.

scott wrote:The City wants to hear from you about the green lane. Call the mayor’s office and thank them and ask for more! Or simply submit a thank you to 311, but that won’t go to the mayor’s office that will go to Planning and/or DPW.

Does this also work as a method of contacting the mayor's office? http://www.pittsburghpa.gov/mayor/feedback/?f=19

This also works. Please add some positive comments https://www.facebook.com/city.of.pittsburgh