BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

I don't see a big problem with 2. 1. You can put cups over anchors or even a strip. 2. This "exit" is pretty narrow and curvy with curbs. So speed is going to slower. 3. The "entrance" has a raised island and just after island there is a raised median so if you are using apex you are limited by the island and by the median. 4. Bike lane is on your left. By this time you have two lanes and a shoulder on your right. And it's the end of the right turn so if driver uses regular apex technique it should stay as far to the right as possible. 5. Problem could be at this point since you have to move car left to start another right turn. But current width is enough, and it's continuous right turn so apex trajectory only helps to negotiate initial entrance.

The Vintage Grand Prix would have been part of the city's planning in creating the lane.

as for various suggestions above : apparently NOT. as for VGP being part of City Planning: apparently NOT. A co-worker, is part of the VGP organization committee. They are currently trying to find another venue. As the Bike lane pole anchors present a very serious safety issue. The only solution the VGP has that works is: remove the poles & and anchors - completely As of 2 weeks ago the city is not going to do that, so... as I said above the VGP is looking for a new venue. At this point, they are not sure they can find one, and are not sure that there will be VGP this, or any year. If this happens - the Autism Society will also take a big hit in donations.

I'm sure the poles & anchors can be removed and then reinstalled without too much effort. Most of the time they are just screwed down, and even if they used epoxy they could hit them with a torch easy enough. So this is probably more of a question of who pays for the removal and reinstallation rather than not allowing it to happen. And dont they normally put up temporary Jersey barriers or hay barriers on the bridges anyhow? I also seem to recall that the VGP & CMU Buggy needs were mentioned during the planning/dedication for this. Anyone else remember this? Anyhow, I'm sure the city will do what it needs to keep the VGP in the park.

Sad to see a huge part of Schenley Park (and the connecting roads people use to get around there) won't be closed for half a week so a few rich people can race around it... Why don't they just put those straw bails in front of the bollards?

I won't miss the noise and pollution of the race part of Vintage Grand Prix. Maybe they could convert it to a bicycle race? Vintage bicycles only?

as for various suggestions above : apparently NOT.

Could you elaborate a little bit? Jacob (one of the board member) has experience in car racing, I believe. I did not race but have a little experience driving rally car. I don't see where the danger is.

Doubt it mind you, and I think it's just VGP grousing honestly, but I'm hoping that the reason for looking for an alternate venue for the vintage grand prix is not the bike lane bollards now (which honestly seem easily enough removed and replaced at the one key curve Mikhail noted), but a planned tear up the the friggin' highway interchange through the park and replacement with a more sensible, lower speed friendly only layout.

The 2015 calendar (http://www.pvgp.org/complete-2014-event-calendar/) doesn't mention a change of location.

Hispania Racing Team Formula One driver Narain Karthikeyan of India is airborne as he goes over the chicane during qualifying for the Singapore Formula One Grand Prix on the Marina Bay City Circuit in Singapore, Saturday, Sept. 22, 2012. (Wong Maye-E/AP). As we know Singapore track is on the streets (like track in Monaco) so all elements are installed and removed.

Devil's advocate: I, for one, wouldn't be the slightest bit upset if we lost the VGP. I'm sure I am not the only person in Pittsburgh who, while zipping along Serpentine Drive behind the wheel of my Nissan Versa the two or three times a year I drive through Schenley Park, thinks he's in a 1963 Corvette, if only for those few seconds. But that others who drive it every day think that, every day, and that that directly leads to a lot of the friction between motorists and cyclists. VGP or not, how do we get motorists to actually drive the speed limit on all streets in Schenley Park, including the piece that's essentially an extension of Blvd of the Allies? Again, until and unless you feel comfortable letting your 10-year-old kid ride a bike from Anderson Playground to Beacon and Murray, on the street, we have not won this battle.

Stu, it's only natural to focus on behavior in the discussion of the park as a literal raceway when talking about the VGP, but the motor vehicle will stay with us. But there's just a natural hierarchy of road routes out there with lowest speed ones naturally enjoyed by cyclists of all stripes, mid-speed roads frequented by less casual cyclists and motorists, higher speed ones naturally preferred by motorists with fewer cyclists. The whole curve should be brought down with enforcement, but motorists aren't going away, and there's a limit to how much they're going to slow down, you can't expect it to universally make for a comfortable cycling environment. Because of the influence of the topography, for a cyclist, in terms of relative velocities, Panther Hollow Rd. is effectively a mid-speed road downhill, high speed road uphill. It's also a high value route because of how direct and central a connector it is. But the only way to make a facility most want to use uphill is to make it separated, and really grade separated as well. Fortunately there's a very natural way to do that. Widen and label the existing sidewalk for use by pedestrians and climbing cyclists. Also, sharrow the downhill direction to discourage bikes taking the sidewalk downhill. Drop the limit to 30 (you're not going to get 25 and arguably don't want given natural cyclist speed at a certain point there) but do some enforcement. Finally, make an intersection treatment at either end of that section that makes sense (nuke the whole highway interchange, or at the very least speed hump, yield to bikes and peds sign, and pedestrian signal out some of the insanity), and make a smooth transition with pavement markings from sidewalk to the (please, pave, it it!) path through the field climbing toward beacon street. Then have another speed hump yield to bikes/peds sign, ped signal combo at the other end to switch back to natural polarity. Bonus if you also improve the directness, smoothness of the upper panther hollow trail connections while you're at it. It's a nice change-up as long as it hasn't been wet. This pattern is definitely not ideal, and I'd much rather not have the polarity switch at the interchange, but just turn the cycletrack to a protected lane and make another one on the right hand side... but anyways... it accomplishes a lot relative to the size of the investment, takes little from motorists, and gives quite a lot of value to pedestrians as well as cyclists. I'm going to keep advocating for it till I'm blue in the face.

FWIW, the city did in fact meet with the organizers of the VGP to discuss the plans and they gave the OK

Why can't the drivers in VGP just, you know, SLOW DOWN through the 'hazard' presented by the bike lane markers? Are they really so dumb that they can't figure this out, or is the "gotta go fast!" mentality so strongly ingrained in their minds that to speak of slowing down during a charity exhibition event considered heresy? Regardless, if the organizers of the VGP can't deal with a few bollards on their planned route, then good riddance. I'll enjoy the extra weekend of being able to ride my bike through the park a lot more than a silly race.

The Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix has been going on since 1983. It's sad to see a few entitled people and a pointless bike lane dictate the future of an event that 250,000 people enjoy every year.

Well, @demigod, as far as I can tell, that's not the plan. As I noted, the VGP website and 2015 calendar doesn't mention anything about it. There's been no reporting. And the VGP was involved in the planning for the bike lanes, as Eric said. So are they genuinely planning to end the race, or is it only a rumor? And, BTW, while the bike lanes are nice, people here seem to view them more or less as an experiment, with pluses and minuses. There certainly wasn't a lot of advocacy here for that particular location. It was just a place to try things out, which might lead to better things eventually.

According to my contacts at the city, the VGP really didn't care. they viewed it as just another challenge that the drivers would have to navigate. it's such a tiny amount of their course.

in fact, i don't even think it's part of their course. They already have the 2015 schedule up, and this is the 2014 map: edit: it is part of their course, but a very small amount. this map doesn't show the whole course

I really wish there was more uninformed speculation in this thread.

Quick! Somebody call WTAE! They will air this story as their main headline at 6:00 without even confirming any facts as it is juicy and will get the old suburban yinzers riled up and foaming at the mouth!!

BTW, in the OP: "the posts marking the bike lane are attached by raised metal anchors." This is in fact untrue. I looked at the posts over the break and they seem to be cemented to the road. There are four holes in the base which could be used for screwing them to the road, but those holes are empty. And one of the posts that came loose on the bridge showed cement on the bottom.

also, i'm not sure of the extent, but most of the bollards thru there are of the removable kind, where the base is cemented into the asphalt, but the bollards themselves are meant to be removed with a special tool. CMU already does this so that they could have the buggy races and practice.

Also, to the first point of parking, it was actually a negligible amount. the city created spaces by relocating the bus waiting area further into the park, thus opening up those spaces along flagstaff which were previously unavailable.

"The Pittsburgh Vintage Grand Prix has been going on since 1983. It’s sad to see a few entitled people and a pointless bike lane dictate the future of an event that 250,000 people enjoy every year." Luckily, the PVGP are more entitled than we are, so they can continue to have their weekend or two of racing in public streets in a public park, which according to them, is the only race of it's kind on public streets. 250k seems a bit inflated to me. That's 80% of the population of Pittsburgh. Perhaps we could unite with a few disgruntled golfers, disc golfers and joggers as well. But then we'll look the other way during a marathon, or that bikefest closed steet thing :)

@Pierce: I've haven't had a problem riding up and down Schenley Dr during the VGP. If anything the absence of speeding cars makes it kind of relaxing. You also get a chance to tool around the car exhibits and maybe spot some cool rigs. So overall I don't see a negative for cyclists. Yes, you can't go on some of the roads, but they're normally too speedy or more suited for cruising; not for travelling from here to there. I mean look, it's a city. We all get to appropriate public spaces for various stuff on occasion, whether for running, cycling or parading. Or screeching and backfiring around a park. Or even for a picnic. It's part of the fun. Just plan ahead. Also, I sense that the people attracted to this stuff are closer to the NASCAR crowd and not so much in league with our class enemies.

50k seems a bit inflated to me. That’s 80% of the population of Pittsburgh.

But it attracts a lot of people out off subburbs (and Greatere Pittsburgh is 1.4 million) and out of state. BTW all those people spend some money in Pittsburgh during this weekend and not in other places.

What the hell is this thread about? There is nothing, not even a article anywhere on the internet indicating the end of this race. There is a 2015 schedule they have up on their webpage for 2015. There is nothing, absolutely nothing but the person who created this thread saying it was going to end this race and 20 comments contributing to it. It is still happening in 2015, people will still be here spending their money, the park will be closed for a weekend so people can watch cars go vroom around in circles wasting gas. I will spend the weekend just cycling somewhere else. It's all going to be OK. Jesus Christ, this cliquish forum.

I enjoy the PVGP, and in fact a bike is the best way to get around and enjoy it. The people it seems to piss off the most are people from the eastern suburbs who work in town and normally like to use the park as their high-speed escape route from city taxes. I enjoy it for that aspect. Also demigod, go troll somewhere else.

"I mean look, it’s a city." I was trying to be a little tongue and cheek by including cycling things and other activities that I'm sure annoy other people who are also inconvenienced "It’s all going to be OK. Jesus Christ, this cliquish forum. " Perhaps to the detriment of the forum, considering it's withered to only a handful of people now, I enjoy being crotchety. We're like the cycling communities form of Statler and Waldorf Also, OMG, I realized this existed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYwiwkdqRJg Statler and Waldorf doing movie reviews