BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

This might actually be cheap/easy enough that I'll try it.

That is awesome!

waitaminute

this would only work w/ disc brakes...

@ Pseudacris.

I think you just saved me about $6.00 worth of zip-ties and an hour of work, followed by a really loud "DAMNIT!"

Gosh that gives me some ideas.

God help you if you get a flat.

Yea, it'll only work with disc brakes.. or I guess a brakeless fixie. I found a page that showed how someone put chains on his bike with disc brakes, but it involved lots of metal wires, chain segments, zipties, and various other fasteners. I considered it for about 3 seconds before determining I'd likely chuck the bike in a corner for the remainder of the winter if I ever got a flat. Cutting a couple dozen zip ties wouldn't break my heart though.

As long as you've got a sharp knife or a pair of wirecutters in your seat bag, and don't need the faux-chains to get home.

All this is moot for me as I am increasingly avoiding going out on the roads whenever they're snow-covered, on bike, foot, or car. I have hot chocolate at home, and NO FENDERS.

There was very very very little traffic this morning, one of the best days of the year for commuting ...

Here is a not so positive review of this method:

http://cyclerslife.blogspot.com/2008/12/zip-tie-bike-tire-chains-ii.html

Anyone selling studded tires? I'm in the market, I think.

A friend of mine was trying to sell me a set last year, although they were 26" MTB tires, I assume you're looking for your CC?

I decided not to buy them since I wasn't having any real trouble with the knobbies on my MTB. I just took it easy on the *really* treacherous days - which, even last year there were only a few of. Although, I didn't do much riding on the trails last winter - which I assume had a lot more ice than the roads.

After reading the review I think I'm going to stick with my Schwalbe Marathon Winters.

Every bike in the house has 700c wheels, even the mountain bike (which is where I'd put them).

Iceman, you like the marathon winters? that is what I was leaning towards, provided no inexpensive used ones show up.

dwillen, They seem to do the job quite well (don't really have experience with anything else for reference though) in slush and packed snow/ice.

i believe there are some directions on making your own over at the thick bikes site

After reading a bunch of reviews, and warnings of ice patches here this morning, I've settled on the marathon winters.

Anyone have a line on a local source (700c), before I send my money into cyberspace?

@dwillen: Good luck with finding a local source for the Winters. I ended up ordering mine from Peter White a couple years back.

how much of a difference to your ride does having studded tires make? i've been considering them for a month or so now. in the past, i haven't had very long winter commutes and often just walked during the colder months. now i'm planning on biking in every day of the year, so i'm wondering how useful i'd find these things. my commute is entirely on-road, and i'm riding slick 700x38s.

i suppose the quality of ride for the next few days will give me a good idea as to the necessity of studs.

I just ordered these.. http://www.biketiresdirect.com/product/innova-tundra-wolf-studded-snow-tire

will see how they do.

Apparently the board thinks im spamming and wont let me post the link.. but I just bought some Innova Tundras in 700x35 for $35 each from bike tires direct dot com

@hiddenvariable: there's certainly a difference, in terms of weight and road noise on bare pavement

They seem grippier to me; also, climbing out of icy ruts seems to dump me on my side significantly less frequently than, say, my WTB Allterrainosauri did.

That said, I'm a Cautious Charlie on ice even with the studs, so I can't speak to how far they push open the handling envelope.

Called a few LBS and gave up. I ordered up a set from the interweb.

My experience with studded tires is that they are condition dependent. On dry pavement they are the worst, noisiest, heaviest, most terrible tires on the planet and make me want to die. On ice and on tight packed snow they are wonderful, superb, shining with golden light and making angels sing. On loose packed snow and slush, they're fine but not any different than other knobbies.

So, it's a Pittsburgh winter. How many times will you need to commute on icy roads? Will the joy outweigh the suffering?

I did this kinda as a prank on a coworkers fixed gear last week just to see if he would notice. I only put one zip tie on there. He said he heard it and wanted to stop but kept going. He said it only lasted about a mile before he heard it break and fall off. He never knew what it was until I told him the next day.

I have had the Schwalbe Marathon Winters 700Cx32 on since a nice spill 1-1/2 weeks ago. I also have the Innova Tundras.

I like the marathons, because their carbide studs last longer than the carbon steel studs on the innovas. Also, it's less rubber to spin 'round. those innovas are wicked heavy, but they go go go in the deeper snows that the marathons will loose traction in.

I would suggest purchasing the nokian replacement studs, instead of the innovas. like the schwalbes, the nokias are carbide and not the softer carbon steel.

I try to revel in the "angry bee sound" the studs make on the dry stretches of pavement. Since I don't have the oportunity to do a daily commute by bike any more I wind up being more selective (i.e. whimp) about when I ride.

dwillen, i think pro bikes stocks them, but i'm not 100% on that.

Ok, this is an interesting thread. But I want to know if I'd be able to manage if I just put on knobby tires (which I happen to have in the garage).

I'm not expecting to be able to manage black ice but I would like to be able to handle ~1-2 inch of fresh snow and maybe some packed snow (once some cars have been by).

Is this a reasonable goal? This is for commuting in the East End.

last year I had nothing but knobby tires, and was able to ride down arlington/josephine and to the strip district from there every day - but I also had a mountain bike, so my tires were 2-2.5" wide.

I think knobby/MTB tires are fine for riding on the road. Studs only really help with ice.

If I did more riding on the trails I might think about studded... already last night there was some ice on the HMB ramps

In the winter I run a slick road tire in the back and a cross tire up front and can get just about anywhere anyone else can.

If anybody wants to play in some deep snow, there's a 4 or 5" deep drift for about 100 ft on the N end of the 62ST bridge sidewalk. I don't know why it would pile up there, it seems like theres a pretty stiff breeze blowing W to E on the bridge. There's a bare strip also you can ride on if you need to.

I have been commuting for 15+ years in P-burgh (6 mainly Squirrel Hill and Oakland, then SH to North shore since then) on normal if not balding road tires. Road bike is ok to a few inches of snow, but then I switch to mountain bike with knobbies. Between better traction and a wider grip, that is good until nearly 10 inches if loose powder, less if wet.

Smooth Ice is not a problem if going straight, and needs care if cornering. It's when the trail goes through a freeze thaw cycle and gets frozen uneven is when it is hardest to ride, but I don't think studs would help there.

Though I have yet to receive my studded tires (don't order from bikeman.com, btw.. they list stuff as in stock, then email you 2 days later telling you it is backordered for at least a month!) I understand that studs (especially when they are on the sides of the tire) help the most in icy ruts like when a trail goes through a freeze/thaw cycle. I'll be sure to report back on what I think of this.

I have cross tires on my bike now. I biked home around 9pm on Monday when there was a dusting of snow on all the roads. For roads that were well salted, it was fine. Biking up the hill to my house in Greenfield kind of sucked though. I was in the lowest gear and still spinning out my rear wheel trying to get up the hill. I know from past experience, the hill gets waaay worse than that, to the point where cars can barely drive up it. I hope that studs help, and wont be as much work as biking around on my 29x2.4" knobbies. It would take me hours to get anywhere with those, but boy would it be fun.

If any mail-order merchant takes more than 30 days to ship a product, by law you can cancel your order and get a full refund. If some other merchant actually has those tires in stock, you can buy from them instead.

Discussion

FTC Guide for Businesses

If bikeman.com regularly lists out-of-stock items as in stock, perhaps they need a friendly reminder from the FTC that they're not allowed to do that.

They emailed me and suggested alternative tires I could buy instead, or they would put my order on backorder. I asked them to cancel it.

What irks me, is they have the tires listed on their ebay store too.

Just call Peter White. He will hook you up.

Yeah, Peter's teh man. I just put a wheel on the truing stand that he built for me, oh, 25,000 miles ago. Still almost perfect.

Ok, so you just put me on to the Peter White site for like an hour, thanks. That place is great.

Been using the Innova 700x35s for four seasons now. The same ones, too, although it's really time for a replacement. I love studs. The extra muscle it takes to move around is totally worth an insurance policy against falling down.

I remember the only time I ever had a close call with them, and it was last year during the massive blizzard. It was when Penn Avenue had been driven on so much that it had a good solid inch and a half of ice covering most parts of it. My back tire lost traction for a second and I swear I fishtailed to a 45 degree angle - and then the studs gripped onto the ice and I was able to pull back to an upright position before anything nasty happened. Had the tires been new instead of three winters old I probably wouldn't have had any issue at all.

Studded tires rule.

I ended up having to order my tires (Marathon Winters 700x35) three times before I found someone who actually had them in stock and didn't just list them in stock on the web. I got them last week and mounted em yesterday.

I haven't found any ice, or even any snowy roads, but I'll give you my initial impressions from riding them on the wet slush this morning (at around 8am--roads were clear, but I haven't looked outside recently). I have them inflated to 85 psi (the max) and they are still quite slow. Not overly heavy to get rolling, but the rolling resistance is huge. You hardly need brakes to stop, you can just stop pedaling. On the plus side, continuous pedaling keeps me much warmer. I need to deflate my tires before the next flock ride.

I did however, feel completely stuck to the road. They are extremely grippy. I wouldn't feel unconformable anymore taking a corner that is covered with a bit of snow (wondering what is just below), or worry about stopping going down a hill. When the roads get nasty, I'll report back and tell you how well they actually do at their job. Right now, I'm thinking about moving them to my mountain bike, because I don't really want to be rolling around on slow ass tires on dry days.

"I don't really want to be rolling around on slow ass tires on dry days."

I looked at getting those exact tires. And I thought about the riding I do, and the roads I'm on, the speed I go, what others are doing at the same time. For the most part, I determined if I'd need them, then my biggest worry is not my own personal traction, but the traction of the 2+ tonne vehicles moving all around me. Maybe I'm fortunate in living near mostly ploughed roads (when they plough at all). I'd note that they make replacement studs for when they wear down if you're moving around on dry pavement a lot. At least that's what the DH guys told me.

I'm still mostly on the fence about them anyway, but hoping procrastination and Spring will make the decision for me.

@ejwme hoping procrastination and Spring will make the decision for me.

Tomorrow is the first day of winter.

Just sayin'.

I know, Mick, I know. At least it's pretty this year, maybe even have a white christmas for the first time that I can remember

My biggest concern was not falling, it was falling and then being run over by the jagoff tailgating me. If it is nasty out, I'm going to be right in the lane, where the salt and car tracks have worn down a clear spot to the pavement. People follow me so close that I doubt they would stop if I took a tumble.

I've had several different people send me this link in the past 8 hours. I guess my friends don't see anything until it shows up on lifehacker.

the zip-tie method amounts to littering, IMO. don't be a litterer - buy some screws and make proper ice tires.

Kind of out of the season, but perhaps I'm thinking ahead... How are those Marathon Winters doing for people? I was thinking of getting some this winter, but never got around to it. I think I fell three times this winter, all within about a half mile of my house. I live on an ally street, which is cobble stone (or maybe not, I know there's another term for brick streets) and there's a little bumpy downhill part at an intersection. It gets icy and wasn't as cautious as I should have been towards the beginning of the icy season. Once a fell and as I was picking myself up, the borough salt truck came by. The other issue I have is that I live at the top of a valley and so getting to work involves going down into the valley. One road is pretty steep and although is well plowed, fresh dustings can still present a problem. Once I was going super slow because I saw the snow, but still ended up locking up and falling. I also did a decent amount of walking on the sandcastle leg of the trail, which I think was covered in icy ruts for about two months. So I'm thinking about getting those marathon winters for those conditions and am wondering what the owners of those tires think. I'd also like to get a trike, but that's not happening anytime soon

I don't have experience with the Marathon Winters, but the Nokian Suomi Mount & Ground W160 I picked up for last season was money well spent after a nasty spill. Last winter seemed particularly nasty, though.

" I live on an ally street, which is cobble stone (or maybe not, I know there’s another term for brick streets)" Most of what's in pittsburgh that isn't just clay bricks is probably more accurately described as "Belgian Block". http://www.pghcitypaper.com/pittsburgh/were-pittsburghs-original-finished-roads-and-streets-paved-with-cobblestone-belgian-block-or-some-other-type-of-brick/Content?oid=1336413

I have the Nokian IceSpeed 100 and I think they're great. I've ridden on that trail parallel to Penn many times when it was a smooth sheet of ice - I wouldn't say it's just like being on dry ground but it's impressively stable. My main worry was how I'd plant my foot if I had to stop. They're labeled 700x37-40 and fit fine on my LHT with fenders. Haven't lost a single stud in 2 years but I do try to take it easy around the corners.

I had a problem with my Nokian Hakkapeliita's last winter. The studs were working their way through the inside of the tire and wearing holes in the tube. I kept getting slow leaks. The tires were a few years old, and tread was far from worn out, but I've discarded the tire -- won't be buying them again. I think this is probably due to my riding them on asphalt quite a bit during the winter, but I'm not going to buy tires that I have to put on more than once a season.

[ I was composing an informative, detailed, comment for this thread. Either the bboard software, or maybe Chrome, barfed when I entered some random control character (unintentionally: loose finger syndrome). Of course the post I had been carefully crafting for however long simply disappeared. The Back button was useless. And, no, I am not drunk/stoned. I'm just not all that coordinated. Anyway, below is version of the original post: just the high points. ] 1. Snow is not a big deal: your tire cuts through to the asphalt. 2. Ice is not nice: gimmicks proposed won't solve the problem. 3. Salt is the real enemy.

Without more info, I'm going to have to take the side of the guy from New Hampshire (Peter White) Plus, as stated, "Once a fell and as I was picking myself up, the borough salt truck came by." So I fell pre-salt. What was the culprit?

I've definitely been kept from slipping because of studded tires. Last winter I rode down a steep hill in a suburb near here. The maintenance folks had blocked off the street with pickup trucks because it was a sheet of ice. I maneuvered past the pickup trucks with my bike, and proceeded down the hill, braking with my rear wheel. It chattered on the ice, as the studs grabbed and released, but slowed me down. And I had control of where I was going with my unbraked studded front wheel. Worked great, as I rode past the maintenance guys at the bottom, their mouths agape.

Sounds interesting but I would be concerned that the plastic would be slippery. Also, as pointed out, would only work with disc, not v-brakes. I bought chains for my v-brake wheels (never used them though). They go around the rubber only and only fit a narrow range of sizes (1.95-2.1" x 26")