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Port Auth Police: Passing within 1 ft of a cyclist is NOT a violation of law

It's a "customer service" matter. I don't know which is worse. The a-hole driver of the 51L on Arlington Avenue today, shown here: http://youtu.be/Y23zdnCen7U or the dispatcher on the Port Authority Police line who said "this is a customer service issue, not a violation of law. Call customer service" before hanging up on me. Customer service has been called, complaint has been filed with promise of immediate escalation. Sounds like we still have a police education process to complete.
ajbooth
2014-11-05 19:03:01
would you consider contacting Jon Schmitz of the Post Gazette and telling him your narrative and showing the video (which btw I can't view online fwiw) I've found him to be an effective force.
vannever
2014-11-05 19:08:45
Done, Vannevar. Thanks. Also fixed the video link.
ajbooth
2014-11-05 20:01:23
I'm loathe to curse but: holy shit. And the road seam on the right of you, and the trolley tracks on the left of you. I hope that gets distributed widely.
vannever
2014-11-05 20:05:42
Without my mirror, and my overriding assumption that all Port Authority drivers are assholes, I would probably have hit the car on the right.
ajbooth
2014-11-05 20:07:49
Holy crap!!!!
marko82
2014-11-05 21:01:20
Maybe it would help, when talking to the Port Authority Police, to first quote the particular law the driver violated (Title 75 Section 3303a3). (When the police officer asks what that is, act surprised that they don't know the law, while explaining.) At least they'd have to make some excuse other than "not a violation of law" before hanging up on you.
steven
2014-11-05 23:24:42
There is no oncoming traffic. Driver apparently does not know about 3301a6, allowing you to cross a double yellow to pass a cyclist if one can see to safely pass. In general, I would wager that the majority of licensed drivers of all vehicles, not just bus drivers, do not know about this pair of rules.
stuinmccandless
2014-11-06 03:12:47
I actually tried to provide the statute number, but the officer cut me off and said "I'm not going to debate the law with you. Call Customer Service." And then he hung up before I could say another word.
ajbooth
2014-11-06 05:25:37
I would never seek the Port Authority Police's help in enforcing the law against a driver. They are there to enforce the law on buses, mainly against unruly or nonpaying passengers. The Pittsburgh police are the appropriate people to enforce the law against the drivers. And good luck getting them to enforce the 4-foot law... This really is a customer service issue. But I don't think customer service is the only option. If a few cyclists, maybe including somebody from Bike Pittsburgh, met with somebody on the Port Authority board of directors and discussed dangerous driving around cyclists by bus drivers that might have an impact.
jonawebb
2014-11-06 08:39:35
@ajbooth, did you contact Pat police directly or did you go through 911? I ask because the last time I needed to report a dangerous bus driver I called 911 and asked to be connected through to Pat police. I think doing this creates more of a sense of emergency and at the same time creates a "paper trail" within a system outside of Pat's control. In any case, the Pat police at least took a statement from me - although no followup with the driver happened, so hanging up on me would have actually saved me some time & effort. OTOH, why do we need to rely on another layer of police and bureaucracy for this? I dont call the Coca-Cola police when I'm involved in a situation with one of their trucks, why should buses be treated any differently.
marko82
2014-11-06 08:40:46
This is awful. ...[numerous other threads, etc.]...see "drivers union". Although, now that 2 drivers have been busted for joyriding and driving a bus over a hill, this might be an apropos time to heat up the issue that bus drivers need to be better trained, be disciplined. And possibly get psychological evaluations.
edmonds59
2014-11-06 08:47:35
^Marko - it's a bullshit antiquated PA law (surprise) that allows the Authority to maintain it's own police force. Also baffling to me is the fact that any time PAT funding is discussed (ad nauseum), the idea of eliminating the costly PRIVATE POLICE FORCE never comes up.
edmonds59
2014-11-06 08:50:39
Update: I heard from the Port Authority. The driver will have a disciplinary hearing with his supervisor. While they cannot tell me what the outcome is due to privacy issues, they can tell me if I check back in whether or not the issue has been closed. Now on to the Port Authority Police for a formal complaint about the dispatcher.
ajbooth
2014-11-06 09:13:31
Excellent! ajbooth, you are the man.
jonawebb
2014-11-06 09:16:41
t@AJBooth: Very nice. Jon: Pgh police will not engage a PAT driver issue. They immediately push you to the PAT police. It's a tremendously unacceptable situation. The PAT police are accountable to the people that administer the union contracts. They have a strict "inside the company" perspective. It's a corrupt, engineered situation.
vannever
2014-11-06 10:15:29
OK, more update. Called the Port Authority Police. Received a call back from a Lieutenant. Took my info, and said: 1) You should never have been told that; if the video supports what you've said, it is clearly a moving violation and we will prosecute it as such. The customer service complaint is a separate issue that will proceed in parallel. 2) In the future, if you have such incidents, do not talk to the dispatcher. Ask to speak to an officer right away. He is assigning it to an officer who will call me today, take a statement, and will stop by tomorrow to pick up a DVD of the video I shot. In the interim, they will review the bus video. And the Lieutenant cited the law before I could. Encouraging. More updates to come as I get them.
ajbooth
2014-11-06 11:12:15
In the grand scheme of things we are supposed to be on the same side (as alternatives to private cars), so finding ways for busses and bicycles to co-exist (including law enforcement) amicably is a really big deal.
neilmd
2014-11-06 11:12:47
Note to self: Do not get on the bad side of Mr AJ Booth. @ Edmonds59 Also baffling to me is the fact that any time PAT funding is discussed (ad nauseum), the idea of eliminating the costly PRIVATE POLICE FORCE never comes up. We could probably change this.
mick
2014-11-06 12:43:05
Ajbooth - wow - warm fuzzy feelings now! Thanks for pursuing this. Also, what neilmd said. PAT doesn't have a clue that we are part of their customer base.
edmonds59
2014-11-06 13:27:42
@ AJ Booth In the interim, they will review the bus video. If they will , in fact , review the bus video to determine if the driver committed an offense, this is a big step. Some people (well, Stu and me, maybe others) have suspected that PAT would not review the bus videos in cases of complaints about drivers.
mick
2014-11-06 13:37:56
I am all for PAT being as transparent in their operations as possible. If they can show that they can prosecute this internally, to positive outcome for future close encounters with cyclists, I will be very happy. The worst outcome is for nothing to happen, nothing to change, and nothing further said about it.
stuinmccandless
2014-11-06 14:37:23
I must say, when I had an event last year, they gave me copies of the video from every camera on the bus. Didn't do anything because the tapes were inconclusive (and wouldn't engage the 4-foot issue) but once I got past the gatekeepers and got to talk with a Police Lt, they were quite accessible.
vannever
2014-11-06 14:41:08
I don't know if it's a driver/education/training issue or the fact that some drivers will just engage in more dangerous behaviors than others. Don't know if that can be trained out of them.
sgtjonson
2014-11-06 15:35:15
The officer who called me today, and who I am meeting tomorrow morning to give a statement and provide video, told me that there will be a hearing, and that I need to be prepared to come to court to testify. So it appears that this is heading down the motor vehicle violation path in addition to anything internal. @Pierce, I agree that it can't be trained out of them, but I think it can be prosecuted out of them. I'm guessing that being a Port Authority driver requires somewhat of a clean driving record. The prospect of unemployment if you continue to do something can definitely change behavior.
ajbooth
2014-11-06 16:23:11
Yeah, if word gets around that a driver was prosecuted for a close pass, and it will, the behavior will change fast.
jonawebb
2014-11-06 16:56:58
@edmonds59 "PAT doesn’t have a clue that we are part of their customer base." I think they deserve a little more credit than this. For one, they have implemented bike racks on every single bus, which is a pretty big deal. Secondly, I've been in meetings with Port Authority folks where the issue of relations with the bike community has been raised, so they're certainly aware of it, and I'm pretty sure that Bike PGH continues to stress this issue with them as well. Obviously there needs to be a lot more work done, but we can't forget that Port Authority management is likely pretty seriously constrained by the collective bargaining agreement with the drivers. Even if they wanted to make the 4-foot rule a top priority, I don't know how easy that would be to do. Glad to hear that this particular incident is being taken seriously though.
willb
2014-11-07 12:18:48
True, I shouldn't place on PAT a problem that seems to lie almost entirely on individual drivers. God, I would so conceptually like to support unions, but in the real world, the actions of any union I hear about are just so bloody wrong.
edmonds59
2014-11-07 13:36:58
Collective bargaining maybe does make it such that there is nothing that can be done with PAT internal police. Would explain seemingly nice, helpful people shrugging through VB's debacle. However, once there's a prospect of prosecution by the regular old police that's clearly outside the scope of any employer/union agreement. And the regular police/prosecutors etc. are the ones I think we most need on our sides because of plenty of other drivers and for plenty of other reasons.
byogman
2014-11-07 13:51:01
UPDATE: Port Authority Police have filed charges against the driver of the bus, specifically for violating Section 3303a3. The hearing will be held in December at the District Magistrate in Carrick. The Port Authority Officer said I should be receiving the hearing notice within the next few days, and that I will need to attend to testify. Will update this thread when I learn more.
ajbooth
2014-11-19 16:24:20
Wow, good news. BTW, major kudos to you for pursuing this. Especially since this is what - your third or forth time? Maybe we should take up a collection and send you to Law school or something ;-)
marko82
2014-11-19 16:48:24
Has anybody received a ticket for breaking the 4' law so far?
sgtjonson
2014-11-19 17:32:13
Yes. I'm pretty sure I read on some newspaper site this year that there had been a bunch of citations since that one, including some in our area. But I can't find the article right now.
steven
2014-11-19 18:08:54
Pierce, I had a driver ticketed based on video, convicted at the District Magistrate level, but overturned on appeal in Kangaroo Court (aka Judge Gallo's County Appeals Court.) Found guilty of a lesser charge.
ajbooth
2014-11-19 19:11:43
@ajbooth, so awesome!
vannever
2014-11-20 09:04:39
I know it was disappointing the ticket was overturned, but finding the guy guilty of a lesser charge is still something. That and the trouble of being convicted, filing an appeal, paying for that and maybe a lawyer, is probably enough to convince the driver not to keep harassing cyclists. So it was worth it.
jonawebb
2014-11-20 09:44:25
Eventually we will get these to stick. Keep rolling video.
stuinmccandless
2014-11-20 17:08:48
The timing of this may be opportune since a driver recently drove a bus over a hillside "goofing around".
edmonds59
2014-11-20 17:15:01
Found it.
But as in many states with safe-passing laws, enforcement in Pennsylvania has been spotty: Just 42 citations have been issued statewide since the law took effect 28 months ago, 12 of which were recorded in Allegheny County, according to a City Paper review of court data.
steven
2014-11-21 02:40:04
This really gets me going! So remember when those two buses were racing on the parkway and one rolled over the hill coming into town?? They said the pressure was so great between the two buses moving that the windows popped out of both in spots. So a Bus coming close to a bike with cars near it and under 4 feet is okay and no one will get hurt? ridiculous thoughts right there.
thedood
2014-11-27 19:25:08