BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Wow, I never would have thought of increasing the Northside to Downtown T ridership by just eliminating buses to downtown.

I think the math just works out to "we're all fucked".

If you have to ride 1+ mile to the bus (which I now have to do), just bike all the way in - it makes the math much easier!

My brother and I were talking today about the transit cuts. I think that PAT should just chose a random work day and shut down without notice. Sure it would suck for those that rely on buses, but think of the impact it would have on everyone else. Besides the traffic jams, try going into co-go's for your morning coffee - I'm sorry it's closed because the cashier couldn’t get here this morning; hospitals without nursing aids & custodial help; offices without secretaries, etc., etc. Upper income families with multiple cars sure DO rely on public transportation, even if they have never used it themselves.

[ETA] I don’t want to imply that only poor people use PAT, but they are most likely the ones without a car or cash as backup.

I'd say .25 point for a bike-to-bus commute. I wouldn't get into hair splitting over whether (using myself as an example here) I ride 3/4 mile to catch a McKnight bus or 3 miles into West View. If you biked, it counts.

If you really want to get fine grained, that's what the Car-Free Calculator is for.

Proposed transit cuts: I don't know where to start. I think we'll all be taking the S.O.L. Flyer before too long.

So many of the states issues could have been solved with a simple mother fracking drilling tax. But the p.o.s. Corbett simultaneously lauds the economic benefits of gas, then with the same reptilian mouth, rejects any mechanism for the state to benefit. Aaaaa**hole.

But yes, 1/4 pt for a bus/bike combo seems right, I could still hit my goal of 1 full commute/week+- with 4 combos.

And btw, PAT is obtaining vehicles that will run on natural gas that will be theoretically be produced in-state, reducing the country's dependence on foreign oil and keeping the $ in Pa. And fighting terrorism, rah.

Was anyone else offered a lube before we were screwed? Because I wasn't.

but natural gas drilling creates local jobs... that's why I've seen trucks with gas company logos from texas picking up people at the airport.

Too bad the mechanical efficiency of natural gas buses is not as good as diesel, so in terms of cost benefits, it's a wash. We HAD a bunch of CNG buses a few years ago. West Mifflin Garage has a regional delivery pipeline crossing a corner of the property. It really doesn't get better than that. Anyway, we tried it, it didn't work all that well. I don't think buses #2221-2225 even made it to 12 years like they were supposed to.

Aren't the new articulateds CNG?

The lower efficiency is understandable, but I'm not sure why longevity would be reduced, unless the build quality from that manufacturer was just not there.

No, but most of the newer buses are "2010 diesel", which means (a) much cleaner burning, and (b) pricier "clean diesel" fuel.

Several buses (5371-5376, 5701-5722, 5731-5734) are diesel hybrids. Think "a really big Prius".

*channeling Sandra Bullock in "Speed" here*

The CNG buses were from the early-1990s. The engines were specially modified diesels. I knew some of the specifics but not details. And while my knowledge of buses may appear at times to be encyclopedic, I didn't have a spy at the West Mifflin Garage to feed me lots of technical details. I also don't remember when specific buses bit the dust, only that the general feeling was that it would be a long time before PAT tried CNG again.

None of the 1990-93 bus order lasted > 12 years.

I will go out on a limb here and guess that the CNG buses' engines' wore out faster because they were powered by CNG. Diesel fuel acts as a lubricant for the fuel and injector pumps, the pistons and cylinder walls to a lesser extent, and probably every other moving part it touches. My guess is that the regular fuel and injector pumps would be removed/altered in a CNG diesel, but I can't imagine that CNG is anywhere near as effective as diesel fuel at lubricating the various other moving parts, e.g., pistons, rings, cylinder walls. This is just my guess, but it is based on maintaining a diesel truck and other engines for many years.

I'm guessing CNG modification has come a long way in the last 20 years, as well.

what salty said.

And I was really starting to like Pittsburgh.

I think we should scrap all the routes we have and put TransitGuru and Stu in charge of revamping and revitalizing the whole mess.

Maybe my faith in them is a bit excessive, and is definitely skewed by my love of that beautiful map Transit made (sigh, I love maps), but I think we'd come out of it with a more efficient system that reaches more users, in a more user friendly way, and possibly even generates more revenue (by being an actual option rather than a last resort).

Vote for Stu for Emperor of the Greater Pittsburgh Area. I love democracy, but sometimes the right benevolent dictator could be useful to cut through the "committees' helpfulness."

how about a CEO with more experience than Albany NY and more than a BS degree.

I think the problems at PAT have far less to do with dumb management (not to say they haven't done some dumb stuff), and more to do with Harrisburg and their other external funding sources. Brains without money gets you a really well-managed and beautifully-executed system shutdown.

Totally agree with Steven. Steve Bland is not the problem. Under his leadership, the Port Authority has become a dramatically more efficient transit system. While nearly all transit agencies have seen rising costs, Port Authority's operating cost per rider has grown much more slowly than benchmark systems during Bland's tenure, and ridership per hour has actually been increasing while other systems decreased. The Port Authority's Transit Development Plan (which is not the same as the deficit-induced route cuts we are currently experiencing) was about as open and transparent a public policy process as one could hope for, and resulted in a simpler, easier to understand, and more efficient transit system.

The cuts we face now are the result of two things that are largely beyond the control of the Port Authority Administration: legacy (and current) labor costs, and lack of state funding. Because Port Authority drivers received free healthcare for life (along with the ability to retire as early as 45 or 50) the Port Authority now pays retiree healthcare costs that are the same dollar amount as Philly's SEPTA system, which is five times as large. Add to this the fact that the state government has been unwilling to properly fund transportation and transit, including a funding formula that basically punishes Port Authority for becoming more efficient, and our transit system is in serious trouble.

Frankly, this is not the time for complaining about Port Authority management, or blue sky wishes about transit planning (the folks at Port Authority are actually pretty good at designing bus routes). We are legitimately in danger of losing our public transit system in Pittsburgh, with really terrible consequences, and we need to figure out a practical, realistic approach really soon. That starts with telling Harrisburg that a transit-less Pittsburgh is unacceptable, and that we need sustainable funding for Port Authority (coupled, of course, with meaningful concessions from the transit workers, and fare increases for riders).

I'm OK with the current route setup, or should I say, with what should have been completed with the un-cut set of routes for April 2011. A lot of effort was spent in figuring out who went where when, and the system designed around that.

The basic problem has not changed, as Steven said. My April 2004 P-G column is still spot-on for explaining the funding problem, except that failure to raise taxes, even to keep them even with inflation, has caused highway funding to dry up as well.

yeah, so maybe Mr. Bland isn't so terrible. I'm pretty sure I created that bias towards him before I realized how terrible funding was.

But why can't he have more of a public presence than just to make statements about cuts? Can't he do a little PR to stir things up in between those announcements?

Sorry to threadjack with more Marcellus Shale comments, but did anyone hear the French ambassador on EPR this morning...he estimates that the French petrol giant "Total" has invested $2billion in the Pittsburgh-area shale business [he may have been referring to the nearby deal in Ohio]. Also, the Courier ran an interesting story on the jobs training programs for the shale drilling industry. How is this going to be great for us again?

//end rant//

^what she said.

Foreign company dumps $2B into the local economy, and that ends up in whose pockets? Where do those pockets live?

OTOH, nearly every transit dollar spent, whether from tax subsidy, farebox, or advertising, goes straight back into the local economy, and providing a vital public service in the process. A service which, if people bothered to use it, would save families $5K to $10K a year in not having to drive a (second, third) car (quite as much).

Auto costs generally leave the area, except for some salesmen, counter help, and mechanics. Think about it: fuel, insurance, parts, the initial purchase. It all leaves town, usually leaves the state, too.

And as I've said elsewhere, regardless of what drivers are paid, their wages are buying your daughter's Girl Scout cookies.

Just some talking points.

But those French companies employ Texans to actually do the drilling. And those Texans sometimes run out of paper towels. And who carries paper towels? Walmart. And who greets the Texans as they come in to buy their paper towels? Pennsylvanians!

If we can have the same health care as the French, I will whine less.

...@steven - LMAO!

my paternal grandfather, a Canadian, was probably the most Conservative, right-wing, anti-tax, anti social safety net person on the planet. Even he, about two years after their "social medicine" system went in to place, managed to say, without any hint of irony, that this "newfangled system" was actually a really nice thing, as now he'd not have to worry about what happens if they got sick or injured. I just don't get it.

And it's also Pennsylvanians who break up the bar fights, and provide "escort service", and re-pave the roads they destroy, and answer 911 calls, and make sure they always get fries with that, and sell them their cigarettes, and sell them booze. At least until the State stores are all sold off.

Some perverse part of my nature has surfed some techie job boards for the state, and there are a lot of high paying technical job openings in the industry here. I suppose they could be filled by a Pennsylvanian with 10+ years pipeline experience or so. But if Pennsylvanians could fill those jobs, I'm guessing they'd be more in line with what Pennsylvanians are used to getting paid, about 20% less.