BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

can we get a plate number and description?

I'm not sure what more description I can give. The car was gray/silver and a sedan type. I'm quite oblivious to make and model. I didn't get a great look at the driver because I was behind him. He appeared to be 50 or so. Maybe older. I think he had a longer grayish beard. White and overweight.

As for the tag. I'll need to check the incident report as I have forgotten the exact number, but it was recorded when I made the call. I think it was MGN 5030 or 3050 .. something like that. I'll verify when I can access the report.

That's really bizarre. Good that you 911’d this though, sounds like the guy has some issues.

What was your sense of the officers response?

Maybe he wanted to ask you directions? Maybe he used to have a bike just like yours and wanted to complement you on it? Who knows what he wanted? Why didn't you ask him?

gg, I'm not going near any car that behaves like that - if they're really harmless or well intentioned and perfectly sane, they wouldn't push repeatedly at someone who doesn't respond, or put it in reverse at all.

good call brybot, glad you came out of it ok.

Yesh! There's a grey Toyota I see in that area occasionally that could be the same guy.

If it is, the guy is really out there. I SWEAR I saw him honk *AT THE STOP SIGN* at Beechwood and S Dallas.

Not at a car that was at the stop sign, but at the actual sign. (I say this because he flipped it off too....)

Sadly, neither I nor a former co-worker whose also encountered him have manged to get his license plate.

I drive a silver Toyota Matrix. Hope it's not me.

I also just reported an aggressive driver just now. I only did so because I got the plate number, make/model, and a vague description of the driver. I stressed to the operator that I this kind of thing happens all the time, and that I was only reporting it because I got so much information that matched up with the description of the incident on the south side.

A guy with dark blonde hair in his early thirties was behind me as I was biking up Penn ave (with my right arm out to signal a turn), he was revving his engine, and then sped around me when he could, and yelled things that were pretty mean and I don't wish to relay the message here. Car was a silver ford Taurus. The 911 operator seemed concerned and felt bad when I told her what the dude said, and seemed to take it pretty seriously, even when I told her that I wasn't hurt and that no one was currently in danger (to my knowledge - he could have done the same thing to three other people, for all I know).

It was such a nice day too. I hope the rest of your day was fun.

ugh this sort of thing happened again, this time, worse. I was having a pretty bad day, and I acted very poorly, and I wish I hadn't, but this is what happened:

I cut through the shur-save parking lot and was taking Corday way (an extremely narrow alleyway) to pearl st so I could avoid most of liberty ave. A car starts following me, and honking their horn, and gets uncomfortably close to my back wheel (at one point, they started honking and yelling when I stopped at a stop sign). Traffic at pearl st was blocking the intersection so neither of us could get through, and after I yelled "Where do you want me to go?" at them a few times, I spit on the hood of their car. I might not do that if I could re-live the situation. They started yelling and asking what my problem was, and I told them that they were driving aggressively and recklessly, and that I was getting their plate number and calling 911 (I walked behind them and snapped a picture of their plate with my phone). The whole time, they were telling me that they weren't being reckless, that me spitting at their car was the wrong in the situation, and that I deserved their behavior because I "was only going, like, one mile an hour."

At this point, I was on the phone with a 911 operator who got the part of the screaming match where I said, "People have DIED because of people like you on the roads, me spitting on your car doesn't harm you, you driving aggressively can certainly harm me"

When traffic finally cleared, they said that they were going to call on me, kept calling me a freak, and drove off. It had gotten a little cold and started raining, and I started crying and shaking violently, and told the operator what happened (since I wasn't injured, he didn't seem interested).

White suzuki voyager, two girls in their ealry twenties, one blond, one brunette. can't remember which is which.

I think what upset me the most was that it seemed they would've acted the same even if I hadn't spit at their car.

?

wait, no, it was a car. I swear it said voyager.

I'm working on getting the picture sent to my email as we speak (type), because my phone isn't working.

looking at the picture, the model name is too blurry to make out.

Well, OK, I used to do stuff like that, and two things: 1) Don't spit on a car behind you, because if they got really angry they could easily seriously injure or kill you. Have an escape route in mind, or don't do it. 2) I heard spitting counts as assault. That might not be true, but first spitting then calling police doesn't make a lot of sense, in my mind. One or the other.

Yeah, I know I acted poorly, but I've been really on edge lately, and had a momentary judgement lapse.

Spitting was way over the top.

Obviously you needed something more subtle.

Like maybe a small hand grenade.

I think what you did was pretty brave. I never thought about spitting. I may not have spit, but I certainly would have yelled back. You had a right to be there and what would the driver have done other than pass you, only to have you pass her/catch up at stopped traffic? I think at least cyclists should talk or even yell at a driver being aggressive. They should know that you are a person and don't deserve to be harassed.

We got honked at on butler tonight.. In the sharrowed area. We were actually riding single file in the door zone and two cars came up behind us and just layed on their horns and didn't pass us, even though there was a good line of sight and no opposing traffic. Then they both revved up And blew past us. I caught up to them and one was an access vehicle. Someone is getting a call tomorrow.

I've calmed down a lot over the past few hours, and I realized that this was the first really bad experience with a driver I've had in a while. The one from the other day that I posted above wasn't even that bad, and I only reported it because the car and driver reminded me of the guy who slit the dude's throat. So there's a plus side, and I keep telling myself that if I can just stay calm (I do act very irrationally sometimes), it will probably be another good long while before something like this happens again. It's just so difficult for me to stay calm when there's someone who doesn't realize or think it's a big deal that their vehicle mixed with their behavior can kill someone.

Don't be that hard on yourself. Speaking only for myself, I have often said and done things that I might not have under normal circumstances, or with time to catch my breath and think. You were threatened, and you had a knee-jerk reaction.

I kinda like the small hand grenade idea!

"if they got really angry they could easily seriously injure or kill you" Recent evidence shows that can happen for just being there. Spitting on the hood of someone's car may justify a verbal angry response, it is not justification for vehicular assault.

Of course its not justification. My point was, if you spit on a car behind you, all they have to do is step on the gas. If you're beside the car, they have to get out, and you can bicycle away.

I must admit I regularly spit on cars- mostly for parking in bikepaths and for blocking intersections because they went in at the end of the light and had no where to go anyway. I did put one in the open door on a mail truck that blocked an intersection (Blvd of the Allies during rush hour) and laughed when I said what he did was stupid. I see it as harmless, but probably infuriating.

There was a guy a few years ago who regularly parked up on the bikepath at the lower end of Panther Hollow. When I finally saw him at his car, I told him I regularly spit on his car when it blocked the bikepath and would continue to do so every time he did it. He seemed a bit taken aback, I rode off, and every time I saw his car after that it was not parked on the bike path.

I think you should ask yourself how your behavior would sound if it was a guy in a car or a pedestrian who did it.

For example, if I met someone who said "Yeah, I regularly spit on bikes when they're on the sidewalk or violating traffic laws" I'd think to myself "Man, that's pretty fucking creepy."

So yeah. Spitting on cars is creepy too. Maybe you should consider stopping that.

After 911, you could also post it here.

http://www.yajagoff.com/2012/09/21/the-cyclist-rule/

yeah, not a fan of it.

I see your points- but if I pulled into an intersection downtown and fully blocked it for a full green light cycle because I was waiting for the traffic in front of me to move and a driver spit just on my frame, I would feel they were justified. My preference is to tap on their vehicle with my hand lightly if I can reach it. Again no damamge, but letting them know they were blocking the intersection. I feel like it is like native americans "counting coup."

You could always post to "Ya Jagoff!", too.

I have no problems calling someone out for blocking an intersection but if someone spit on my bike/car/plane/anything I would be pretty ticked. I can't imagine ever feeling justified in doing such a thing and think its incredibly trashy.

Most adults, be they cyclists or drivers, would have a very dim view of such childish behavior.

edit- Even worse is trying to defend yourself in a public forum.

Even worse: morality police.

^ aack! thanks for the PMRC flashback...

Hm, being an asshole by blocking intersection (and don't tell me it was not intentional) and letting people go even they are in rush also, and calling names are kind of OK, while spitting on the car is childish behavior and is morally unacceptable. Could someone explain me when did it become like this and why?

@quizbot Dewd, u r so punk rawk!

@mikhail I feel your pain. I did not condone any of the behaviors you mentioned, simply stated that spitting is childish behavior. Never said a damn thing about morals either.

The way I see it, they acted childishly by honking their horn, yelling at me, and calling me a freak, so I reacted childishly by spitting at their car.

Doesn't make either one okay, but it's what happened.

thanks tipper

@ericf: I know, thanks. BTW, your use of the message-speak style used by kids in texts may seem to most adults as a bit childish.

I am curious how everyone define this "childish." Why is spit childish, while yelling obscenities and making hand gestures not? Is the opposite of childish then mature? I would guess then that violence is not childish, but wonder where keying or dog poo fit in there?

@Quizbot

Worse still: traffic police

@Helen

Regardless of whether or not spitting on windows conforms with the behavior of children, it likely doesn't convey any useful information.

Case in point, guy whose window you spat on regularly didn't move. You talked to him one time and he moved.

@Mikhail

Why would somebody intentionally block an intersection? There's been a couple of occasions where the traffic's been moving slowly along, then stops, then the light changes, and I've been stuck in that situation. I didn't do it intentionally. How do you know that guy is any different?

Spitting on his car, while showing your frustration with what may have been an accident, doesn't clear the intersection and if it was an accident, there's not much the driver can do with your frustration to avoid it in the future. Like would his rational be "Well, that woman spit on my car, so I'm going to totally make sure the intersection is clear before I enter into it"

Pierce, you are correct- In retrospect, my spitting is perhaps the equivalent of flipping a middle finger at someone- it makes me maybe feel better and imparts my feelings towards the recipient.

As far as blocking intersections, I believe the traffic laws state to not enter the intersection until you have room to travel all the way through. I did speak with a co-worker who got a large ticket ($100+) for entering the intersection during rush hour without room to go all the way through and got stuck blocking traffic. If you entered the intersection before there was room to go all the way through, it was intentional unless an accident happened on the other side after you entered it, which is possible but would be really rare.

Bikes never block intersections unless on purpose.

Oh jeez Pierce. And what sort of police are you? Thought police? Intention police?

The waaaaaambulance. They have sirens, too.

@Pierce It's strange to extend your experience to all. And yes, you got to intersection intentionally. You block it may be because you did not foresee what could happen.

But yesterday I went to Costco in Robinson. I was coming from top of the hill. And there is left turn. And all small part of the road between two traffic lights. It was full of cars. Nevertheless when left turn signal was about to expire 4(four) cars decided they had to turn. And they completely block thee lanes coming from Robinson mall. And they were sitting there for a good part of green and only last driver started to make attempts to move his/her car. And tell mee that was unintentional.

BTW blocking intersection even when green is on is violation of vehicle code. if you cannot make turn then you should wait before intersection.

@Quizbot

I'd like to police myself better on making snarking remarks on here

@intersection comments

I think the problem is though, if you go by the book, every car entering an intersection would have to be an intersection length apart. Surely that would cause more delays than when people occasionally get stuck in intersections

Not say people never do it on purpose, but sometimes I could see them accidently getting stuck too

Nope. The problem is that if you block intersection then you have to move later when light turns red and traffic with green light does not have choice and it will let you go. I took it today just after my wife and I shopped at Costco: http://youtu.be/CixsYe8aYqc. Watch traffic light and when and how cars are entering this T intersection.

It could happen accidentally. But my experience tells me for the larger part it is intentional. It's pretty easy to by driver behavior of it's accidentally or intentionally. I commute along 19N from USC to Technology drive 4-5 days a week and then back.

@helens If you don't think spitting is childish, then then rest of this will be lost on you. I never said anything about hand gestures or yelling, let alone dog poo or keying. The leap of logic that you make when you say "I would guess then that violence is not childish" is absolutely beyond me. Where do you come up with these kind of ideas?

Whether spitting is childish or not, it certainly expresses displeasure in a way that cannot be ignored. At some point the driver has to clean the spit off. So it exacts a certain amount of revenge on a driver who has offended you.

On the other hand, I feel better about myself since I stopped doing this, and also stopped cursing drivers. There's a discipline to trying to make yourself a better person that is rewarding, not just in the sense of feeling morally superior, but also in terms of learning to control your inner demons and feeling stronger as a result.

ericf- My line of thinking was that there must be some sort of continuum from childish to mature, if those are at opposite ends of some sort of behavioral spectrum. As to where that came from, it's all biochemical- a product of my own diet and unique physiology.

Jon- I appreciate your thoughts. I do feel that this board sometimes foments incivility towards motor vehicles, although maybe that is just a function of the anonimity of the internet. I agree I sometimes need to keep those inner demons at bay a bit better.

I have had it with assholes in general. Fuck them. They deserve to be spit on and yelled at. If they don't want to be nice to other people.. And if they are dangerous... Then they deserve to be told about it. I consider some behavior by motorists attempted assault/homicide, even if the DA or the law doesn't. I don't think we, as human beings, deserve to have others threaten us or operate in an unsafe manner That can cause us bodily harm based on our choice of transportation or because they feel some sort of sense of superior self importance and can't wait 5 fucking seconds to pass safely.

Don't sugar-coat it stef, how do you really feel? (this might not be sarcasm)

Had the worst drivers on a century a few of us did today out to the teapot (the major Taylor 3 state route). I can count on one hand the number of drivers who gave us 4 feet. Really scary. The worst was a white pickup truck that was barreling down the right lane on 51 south between Monaca and hopewell who would have hit us had we not turned around to see him not moving over to the empty left lane to pass. We had to jump onto the debris filled shoulder that isn't really much of a shoulder. He only honked as he passed us. That is the bike route and there are lots of share the road signs. He went by too fast and it was too scary to even get a plate #.