BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

it's a very good question. I don't know the best answer. I think the root problem is driven by a 2-way bike lane on one side of a one-way street. I suppose another option is ride in the bike lane to 10th Street, turn left onto the sidewalk, stop and reverse, wait for a green light to cross Penn, and then proceed with the green across Penn - sort of a Copenhagen Left. I'd be interested in hearing the road designer's (or road design team's) response.  

same issue in oakland when the bikelane through Schenley park ends at Roberto Clemente right by Schenley plaza.  If you're heading into Oakland, you end up heading the wrong direction into traffic.

Has anyone tried performing a hook turn on a bike in Pittsburgh? Is it even legal? It seems safer than standing in the middle of the road waiting for a chance to turn left, but I imagine it would confuse, anger, and probably perplex many drivers.

Has anyone tried performing a hook turn on a bike in Pittsburgh? Is it even legal? It seems safer than standing in the middle of the road waiting for a chance to turn left, but I imagine it would confuse, anger, and probably perplex many drivers.

I'm sure this isn't legal. And you'd definitely have "jagoff" yelled your way, assuming you weren't hit by a car.

assuming you weren’t hit by a car

If you're doing it correctly they'd have to run a red light to hit you, so you'd be safe until Tuesday. On a more serious note, the plans for the Negley bike lane project involve adding a two stage turn queue box on E Liberty Blvd & N Negley Ave, so there'll be at least one intersection in Pittsburgh where the hook turn is allowed whenever that's completed. I can't find much discussing the legality of hook turns in Pittsburgh, but I did also find this PDF that suggests that two-stage left turns are at least being considered. I'm also not sure about the laws regarding entering/exiting sidewalks, but if the hook turn was performed as Vannevar described (with dismounting), I doubt it would be an illegal maneuver. Perhaps it's not legal to enter the roadway in front of a vehicle waiting at a red light from the sidewalk though.

The inbound right turn movement at 6th to get to the Clemente Bridge bikes lanes has much more volume and there's generally two relatively-safe ways people do it.   The cycle track itself has calmed traffic to the point where Penn is probably the most equitable street in the city in terms of interactions between riders, walkers, and drivers.  Vehicle speed are almost always now slow enough that you can merge into the vehicle lane as you approach the intersection and then make the right-hand turn as if you were a driver.   If traffic is too heavy or this isn't a comfortable movement for you - completely understandable - then simply stop in the cycle track at the intersection, wait for the walk light crossing Penn, and then turn right as if you were a pedestrian.  Since Penn is one-way inbound, you'll have zero conflicts with drivers using this method.   As for the two-stage turn treatment, PennDOT actually just built the first in Pittsburgh as part of the East Ohio Street reconstruction at the intersection with Chestnut Street.

Vehicle speed are almost always now slow enough that you can merge into the vehicle lane as you approach the intersection and then make the right-hand turn as if you were a driver.

Yeah, that's true. I'd be more concerned about irritating drivers by pulling into traffic when there are perfectly good bike lanes than anything else.

simply stop in the cycle track at the intersection, wait for the walk light crossing Penn, and then turn right as if you were a pedestrian

I think I prefer this approach. I assume I should pull over onto the sidewalk on the left as I wait for the light (to avoid blocking the bike lane and make my intentions clear). Once I cross with the pedestrian light I can wait for the 10th St traffic to clear, then take my right turn back into traffic from the sidewalk.

As for the two-stage turn treatment, PennDOT actually just built the first in Pittsburgh as part of the East Ohio Street reconstruction at the intersection with Chestnut Street.

Is that already complete? I rode through there a couple months ago and don't remember seeing any markings.

I used to do two stage/hook turns quite a bit at center/neville st before they installed the left turn arrow on center.  It's easy to do with the not very busy busway there.  Same when turning left across multiple lanes on forbes/5th in oakland (bigelow blvd or craig st from forbes). Not sure if it was legal when I did it, but I didn't care. I would rather be safe.

I would have to see this done in person, at least a few videos, before I try it. I think, conceptually, it sounds like a good idea. Since it is required practice in Denmark and recommended in various other parts of the world, it might well be worth trying here, too.

Stu - Page 16 of the Bike-Pgh Bike 101 guide has an example. http://localhost/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/bikecommuting101-1-2-1.pdf Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0FRzkx33Zs Also, we have another 2 stage style box installed at Schenley Drive by the Carnegie Library for left or Right turns off the protected bikeway. https://www.google.com/maps/@40.442351,-79.9517391,3a,75y,138.16h,65.68t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFJlCK4WUERa0x65TCbOjuA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I've done it @ Bates & the Blvd of the Allies when there was a cop there (normally I just turn left down the hill). Just turned right on Bates, made a quick U-turn outside the line of sight of the cop, and go straight. No problem.