BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

stalled bumper-to-bumper traffic on Liberty

If it gets like that the score will be:

Bike 100

Car 0

Back in an earlier phase of the Route 28 project, when they were trying to fix the constant rock slides near Harmar, one weekend day they closed 28 and routed everyone off at the 910 and onto Freeport road. It was locked up solid, bumper to bumper from there all the way into Blawnox--and we just pedaled on our merry way with hardly a slowdown. When you get to pass more than 100 cars on a bike...it's a good feeling.

With a brand-new bicycle path from Millvale to 31SB, this can only be a good thing for the cycling community. I suspect doing a hide-and-ride in Millvale may become popular, as will riding along the tracks from Sharpsburg to Millvale.

To that end, the Shop & Save on the north end of Millvale has plentiful parking, even if it is a five- to ten-minute ride from the trail. I'm pretty sure the Family Dollar right next to the trail will wise up to daily automobile warehousing rather quickly.

How much of the $120 million to be spent on rt. 28 is going to be spent on bike lanes?

I have to drive to work nearly eVery day because I have to get to hospitals sometimes quickly... Wish i could ride my bike to the north side causes the cops running traffic lights on liberty between 31st and 16th sts inbound made me 20 minutes late for work.

@timito; I think you posed your question in jest, but PennDOT and the Route 28 project were key partners in making the the new trail connection between Washington's Landing and Millvale. So, now bike lanes on Route 28, but an awesome bike accommodation for that part of the project.

@Swalfoort: The bike path construction between 31st/40th Street bridges may have benefited from PennDOT funding, but it also had to depend on *private* funding.

I have not heard about any private donations supporting the Rt 28 construction. Maybe you have. Bike paths are public works, why are they treated as second-class?

I think we still need to champion the trail that is going in along 28 though. The planning phase listened to needs for one of the few times ever, so even if the funding was private, it's a step. To have a separate bike trail planned for and executed incredibly well ahead of a major car infrastructure…I'll take it!

Next step, tax dollars!

Also, that said, the cops running the lights at our intersection here at doughboy square have been incredibly nice to bikers so far, and very vocal against people being idiots. I hope we get to keep them around longer than a week or two of calibrating lights…

They're stationing officers along Liberty too. I'm half tempted to pull a Costanza and give the guy a chair to sit in... He's expected to stand there all day!?

Riverlife Taskforce, a PPP, and ATA receive tremendous donations to design and construct trails along the rivers. They also receive assistance from Allegheny County - as they have so graciously accepted ownership for most of the bridges along the trails within the County.

The County is administering a planning study for a bikeway along the 28 corridor. Once the study is completed, then the arduous task of acquiring right of way and constructing the paths fall on the local municipalities - though I would suspect that most will drop the ball and the County will bail them out.

Like swalfoort said, no bike lanes on 28 itself, but I wouldn't want any. That path along the river is going to be heaven for cyclists.

I want a path that cuts out Cabbage Hill. Well, realistically, I want a path all the way down from RD Flemming Bridge... No, really I want the trestle beside HPB to go bike/ped path, and then link that in Aspinwal to a trail going the length of the river. And Ferries. But I'll settle for anything that cuts out Cabbage Hill. Not that it isn't a pretty little community. I just don't like Friday St.

friday st is a death trap. horrible surface+narrow lanes+speeding drivers trying to outsmart pendot+blind curves

ugh.

I know a lot of people in Aspinwall and FoxChapel that commute by bike at least part of the year, and some year-round. Most take Freeport Road/Main Street through Sharpsburg, go beneath the 62nd Street (Fleming) Bridge and ride the railroad right-of-way to where it meets the Millvale trail.

Often the ballast is fist-size stones, making passage VERY difficult for anything less than a mountain bike. Plus, railroad security are known to shoo riders away (it is private property after-all, and trains are big things that will kill you if you are too close).

As imperfect a solution as that is, it spares you from the Cabbage Hill option(s), as well as the Butler Street option (which will be increasingly heavily traveled for the next four years as it is a primary detour route for the construction.)

If the trail were somehow magically extended from Millvale even just to Sharpsburg under the 62nd Street Bridge, it would make a HUGE difference.

just wait till the city finally starts the heth's run project. the bridge over nothing between hpb and baker st will be torn down and butler will be completely blocked there. the results of the project will be awesome, but getting there is gonna SUUUUUUUUCK.

So I went to check out Friday Street on Streetview and below is the first image I came to...

Ok, I thought I was just a wuss for not liking Friday St. i know about the train track tresspassing to bypass the hill, I'm just way too goody goody two shoes to try it. And scared of trains. Those are the trains I hear all night long across the river, I can hear how fast they're moving, and I can see how heavy they are. If it were my commute, ok, maybe, schedules are predictable. But for a random "I wanna go THERE today!" ride? Nope.

"If the trail were somehow magically extended from Millvale even just to Sharpsburg under the 62nd Street Bridge, it would make a HUGE difference."

DITTO

"If the trail were somehow magically extended from Millvale even just to Sharpsburg under the 62nd Street Bridge, it would make a HUGE difference."

DITTO

for realz. riding through sharpsburg is mostly pleasant even at the worst of times, and i don't much mind biking along freeport. just that one little section that seems a pain.

and incidentally, i suggest everyone give high street and seavey a try. i like it a lot better than friday. sure, it's redonk steep at the top of high, but it's not very long, and there's never any traffic. plus, it's a dirty dozen hill, so not only do you get to take it as slow as you need to, you also get that feeling of accomplishment for having climbed it!

Don't forget the Parker St-->Seavey alternative to Friday and High...in my limited experience, it's way more mellow than Friday in terms of traffic and High in terms of guts busted.

i've only taken parker once, i think. it always seemed to me that cars are flying through there without regard.

My question was posed in jest, but I was hoping for a legitimate response. Thanks, it was well recieved and the impetus for two seperate trips over the bridge for a personal inspection. It doesn't matter to me where the money for the 31st to 40th trail improvements came from, it looks fantastic.

It's just too bad we have to depend on magic to have the trail extented to Sharpsburg, one might hope common sense and practical knowledge would suffice.

The last time the RR police stopped me on the RR route to Sharpsburg, he said the RR has problems with people tresspassing because of liabilty issues, that is the RR could be held liable for any injuries that happened on their property. It seems like there should be some way that the RR's liabilty can be waived or whatever. Like when you ski at a ski area, the ski area isn't responsible for any injuries that you get. There must be some way of getting their liabilty waived because ski area have the arrangement... Oh, also he said you get one warning and the second occurance you get a citation.

There's really not alot of signage that would indicate that you're not on a path. I saw lots of bike tracks, so apparently ilegal or not people use it, Some guy was driving his truck back there.

It would seem the RR could reduce thier liability by removing those foul, fist sized rocks and posting proceed at your own risk signs.

I've seen people drive back there to fish. And it seems, if they REALLY wanted to reduce their liability they would put up a fence where the Millvale trail enters onto their property.

I like timito's idea - get'em to replace the fist-sized ballast with common gravel and erect some different signage.

Like they say, dogs are gonna bark, teenagers are gonna have sex, and cyclists are gonna ride along the train tracks.

What I'm assuming to be the border, doesnt have any sign, does it? It certainley isn't closed off. I think the only reason I knew I was on RR property was from reading this forum, and encountering those damn rocks. It seemed rather inviting at first. If that was opened up to Sharpsburg you could commute to downtown in about fifteen minutes by bike. I guess the convienience of driving and sitting in traffic is preferable. I enjoy the irony of motorists explaining they drive because of the convienience, hmmm, ok.

I understand transporting your kids, going to Home Depot etc. but sitting on rt. 28 going downtown from Sharpsburg, not convienient.

For years, there was a No Trespassing sign on the outbound trail, just short of the 31SB. Whose land was that? It sure didn't slow down use of the trail to Millvale, and now we apparently have full use of it.

How is the Millvale to 62SB segment any different? Especially since the start of that segment, outbound, certainly looks legit?

@ How is the Millvale to 62SB segment different

Swalfoort must be sleeping in today The RR policeman told me they were owned by different lines and that checks out with some stuff posted earlier. The part that is now a trail was owned by the Baltimore&Ohio RR whereas the part from just beyond Milvale and up is owned or operated by NorfolkSouthern. (The pdf I link to below calls it Pennsylvania RR)

Here's a a screenshot of the applicable part of the pdf, if you don't want to search thru the whole document.

And heres a link to the doc that has the pdf itself (Its titled: Milvale to Ohara,Sheets1-5):

Millvale_to_Sharpsburg

And here's a link to an earlier thread :

earlierThread

Dang, caught me sleeping in -- you did! I've mentioned this before, but here goes again. The trail north from Millvale is owned and maintained by Norfolk Southern RR. It parallels the track that you cross/pass pass under as you enter Millvale Riverfront Park from Route 28, and acts as a service road for NS maintenance vehicles.

As I understand it, if a property owner permits free access to or across their property for an extended period of time, to the point where people ASSUME they have a right to be there, the property owner has created an easement, although one that is not protected by any terms or protections. Therefore, NS is being as accommodating as they can be of cyling on that section of trail, while also continuing to assert that these riders are, in fact, trespassing on private property. In so doing, they are protecting their corporate property rights.

I believe that Friends of the Riverfront or other group is in discussions with the railroad to address these issues and perhaps work out an agreement that would extend the trail northward. It may take some time, that's all.

It would be sweet......

@swalfoort - "NS is being as accommodating as they can be of cyling on that section of trail, while also continuing to assert that these riders are, in fact, trespassing on private property..."

Lightbulbs just went on in my head - that was a great description, thanks. Makes perfect sense.