BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

You're all forgetting about Keystone Iron and Metal. I would suggest many many bake sales to purchase right-of-way, because I don't believe they would donate the land required for a safe thoroughfare.

The last I recall was that they were simply going to bypass Keystone Iron & Metal. Unfortunately, this would require building a new flyover bridge rather than refurbishing the existing pedestrian bridge.

Update as of 10/10/10

fringe bicycle group, where are you?

walk an extra 1/4 mile or so along the tracks. the fence ends and you can just step over the guard rail and continue on your way.

Oh? I was heaving my bike over the gate on the corner of the parking lot. I guess since it was always dark at the time I didn't see there was an easier way over.

Does anyone have any video skills, and feel like a project?

I could see a 30 second video, obtain all kinds of images from the GAP trail, from DC on - quick cuts, all montaged together, mile post 0, smiling happy people, riding, beautiful views, mile posts clicking by, right up to mile post 3XX whatever, that sign above, dead stop, bam, downtown just in the background (might have to get creative), then the closing title - "Sandcastle, Stop The Obstruction". Out on the internetz.

That's my pitch. Project, anyone?

@Kordite the fence ends at the old bridge pier. after that there is a 5 foot wide strip of grass with a guard rail and that's it. the waterfront end has gates designed to keep cars out. they only go across the road, not the grassy areas with a 6 inch curb next to the road.

what edmonds said, and youtube it.

Old bridge pier? The only one I know of is on the west side of the Glenwood Bridge unless you are talking about the active rail bridge that cuts through the park itself.

yeah its the far side of the rail bridge. Right here.

in fact is you street view the turn around at the entrance to sandcastle (behind costco) there is a guy riding his bike on the sidewalk at the turnaround who seems to have just come from sandcastle.

in fact is you street view the turn around at the entrance to sandcastle (behind costco) there is a guy riding his bike on the sidewalk at the turnaround who seems to have just come from sandcastle

this guy? "hey, what is that goofy car with all the cameras on top?" Damn, the internets are creepy sometimes.

As of this past week I have now tried to contact Jon Schmitz who wrote the article in July as well as Onorato and his people to get an update.

I wrote to him on 9-15 and he got back to me on 9-20 saying

Terry,

Unfortunately we have not had an announcement yet. I keep checking on it and have been told there are no snags. I'll be checking again in the next couple days.

Best,

Jon

I recall a time when the goal was to have the trail complete, including the Sandcastle piece, by 10-10-10. That was moved to 11-11-11 (as a goal)when it became apparent that the earlier date did not work. But, the fact that we are now past 10-10-10 and inching slowly but surely towards 11-11-11 may make this good timing for a series of letters to ???? Onorato, if he's going to be around after January. Otherwise, maybe your local elected officials?

Sorry, Scott. I wasn't given the opportunity to ask that question today.

The GAP links to DC, who has the Washington Post and we've got a cycling advocate who used to live there (calling Lolly?). Sandcastle is owned by a parent company who also owns a number of other amusement parks, I believe world wide.

While a (comparative) handfull of unhappy people on bikes who can barely get paint put on roads in their neighborhoods jumping up and down and whining about finishing the trail may do relatively little good, perhaps approaching the trail from the other, more populous and nationally paid attention to end, and connecting the local water park to their larger owner, as well as publically shaming them, might do some good.

unless that's been done and truly nobody in a position to do anything actually gives a damn.

I may sound like a negative nancy but im not going to worry much about this until the rest of the trail is ready. they put the decks on the bridges but you still cant get from here to there. I would think that Sandcastle will be part of the "Grand opening" or want to be part of it.

So I can sort of see them being quiet about it until that point then all of a sudden saying "yeah me too"

if not then I say we get pissed and go all ulocky on them

dback - I envisioned you running through sandcastle brandishing a u-lock and a battle cry... not actually hitting anybody, but in general being a Very Alarming Individual. way to make me giggle

The listed owners of SandCastel is Parques Reunidos. They are a sub of a private equity firm named Candover Investments. This is one of the largest private equity firms in the world! They are based in London but are rumered to be owned by investors in Saudi Arabia...good luck with pressuring/shaming the owner.  

Candover Investments is a publicly traded company and appears to be going under.. I'm guessing Parques Reunidos will be un-acquired sometime soon. Anyone want to buy a bunch of amusement parks?

The fact that you envision me "running" at all is the funny part for me.

Candover Investments is the full name of the parent private equity firm that owns Parques Reunidos.

Candover Investments PLC is a sub and is publicly traded. The sub is in the middle of accounting scandal and they are supposed to be retuning money to investors...

(Edit) Anyway the point is that a very large and wealthy privet investor that does not give rats ars owns the park.

But they are also not involved in day to day operations of the parks.

@dbacklover I may sound like a negative nancy but im not going to worry much about this until the rest of the trail is ready

+1

Putting this in parallel with the casino closing the trail for a few hours, it would do Sandcastle well to post a helpful sign at each end, something along the lines of "Joggers and Cyclists, Suggested Detour:" along with a map, "You are here--> and are probably trying to get there-->, and this is a good way to get there."

Even if the suggested detour is two miles out of the way and sends us along a thoroughly unpalatable piece of road, the idea that they do something seemingly helpful would be very good P.R. It would certainly be seen as more helpful than "break through this fence and we'll throw your a$$ in jail", as the current sign implies.

I think they would want to do this, especially as more and more people learn about GAP and just show up, unannounced, with 300 miles of trail dirt and sweat on them, after sundown on a Sunday night.

If there's no announcement yet but also "no snags", maybe they're just waiting for the right time for an announcement?

Last year on November 11 they opened the section into Duquesne, and announced that they hoped to extend it into Homestead by November 11 2010, and connect that trail into downtown by November 11 2011.

Perhaps when the Duquesne to Homestead section opens (and last I heard, they now didn't expect to open that section until February 2011) we'll get an announcement of a deal with Sandcastle?

In any case, if Sandcastle is currently cooperating with the folks hammering out this agreement (and it sounds like they have been), a Very Alarming Individual running through the park brandishing a u-lock might do more harm than good.

Steven, I think there's no danger of a premature ulock rampage, rest assured. that was mostly in my imagination, which, as my parents have been trying to convince me for 30 years, has absolutely nothing to do with reality in any way whatsoever.

I like stu's idea of signs - shows good faith, is super easy and cheap, gets the word out to those who care. (perhaps gives them something to do in this time between "no snags" and "no development")

I like dback's idea of giving them a chance to sort things through... i don't like the idea of waiting, though it is fairly easy to distract me with other things, like bridesmaids dress rides and shiny new sharrows near my grocery store, so I'll shift over to those ideas for a while.

Also as to those un-announced riders who show up, unless they show up on the weekend they wont be able to ride the trail into town anyway until next spring (if I have my facts right)

For the record I am not sticking up for the park. I expect when the time come the park will be exposed as the massive group of pricks they are and tell us to shove off. Im just saying that they don't have to worry about telling us to shove off until they are the only roadblock.

(yeah I'm feeling bitter today) This isn't the place for my bitter. I apologize. Time for the Blog Pen to come out.

The trail now goes past Kennywood Park.Just biked it today.To get there you have to cross the railroad tracks in Rankin,where they're almost done, finishing the bridge.The same company owns both Kennywood and Sandcastle.I feel positive it will eventually, also go past Sandcastle.

I dunno, I think it sounds like fun - we could recreate the battle scene from Braveheart, but with lycra and u-locks instead of kilts and clubs. And with Timito leading the charge instead of William Wallace! Sounds like a party!

As a Bruce in Good standing Ill stick with Kilts and Broadswords. But I got to say I like the way you think

So i've been checking this out from time to time. I didn't really read the last few posts, but I think, at least for me, the trail connection is much more than closing the GAP. Having accessibility to the waterfront from my side of the city would be LIFE CHANGING. Being able to get to Target would be amazing. Costco, even better!

The East Liberty Target might be open before you could ride the trail to the Waterfront.

Here is the latest from the County:

10/12/10

Dear Mr. Bricker:

County Executive Dan Onorato asked that I respond on his behalf. As you know, the development of the Great Allegheny Passage has been ongoing over the past 30 years. The last nine miles that we have been working on since 2006 have proved to be a challenging opportunity. Since late 2006, we have worked with our trail partners, the Allegheny Trail Alliance, the Steel Valley Trail Council and the Friends of the Riverfront to secure and develop some outstanding trail segments. There are many, but we have some recent successes. The Riverton Bridge is a fine example of a partnership that took several years to develop, as well as the additional bridges that are being constructed in both Duquesne and Whitaker that have taken a number of years in which to secure development rights. Working with US Steel over a number of years, we acquired almost three miles of trail that connect Duquesne and Whitaker in one of the most scenic vistas along the trail. Other easements acquired for this segment are completed after successful discussions, including property within the RIDC parks in Duquesne and McKeesport and Guardian Self Storage.

We understand the importance of the Sandcastle segment and it has been the highest priority. For many years, the owners of the property were not interested in discussing trail development on private property. Since the property was sold two years ago, we have worked closely with the new owners of Sandcastle to negotiate an acceptable agreement.

As Mr. Judy mentioned in the article, Sandcastle is working closely with the County to develop a suitable agreement that will work for all parties involved. Additionally, we needed to engage another private property owner to be able to complete the Sandcastle connections. We understand the critical nature of this project and we are committed to seeing this through. I will be happy to update the bicycling community on our progress to date.

Sincerely,

Darla J. Cravotta

Yeah, she's the special projects coordinator at the county working for the chief executive - not parks, public works or economic development, but the chief exec's office.

We'll see what happens to her position and priorities after November 2nd.

OOOh, OT, but, I heard "county special projects coordinator, chief executive" - an excellent special project might be to get PAT bus drivers not to run over cyclists, and management to do something about it.

@sloaps - I've met her at a couple of rails/trails events, and she's not an Onorato political hanger-on. I'm pretty sure she's been doing this type of work long before Onorato became County Exec. It may be appropriate to identify Onorato as a little distracted, but not Darla. She's very committed to rails/trails and riverfront projects.

I was struck by the phrase "Additionally, we needed to engage another private property owner to be able to complete the Sandcastle connections." That sure does sound like new information to me.

My take on "another private property owner" = railroad.

Again, rotsa ruck. I hate to be cynical, but if a RR is involved, 11/11/11 is optimistic. Moving pen and paper is much harder than moving dirt, and moving minds equally harder than moving pen and paper.

Whatever happened to emminent domain? Why can't the county/state/city/fed say "Here, you get this money and this is ours now" like they have so many times before (the Mae West bend in 28 that eliminated the carousel horse shop in Etna). Or is it the money that's the issue?

Scott — oops, sorry, I mean "Mr. Bricker"— can you write her back and take her up on the offer of updating the bicycling community on the progress? Whether that would be a meeting in person or phone call, or whatever. Actually, would it be possible to set up a conference call where interested people can dial in? I'm thinking of the kind of calls that companies have when releasing quarterly results or whatever. Anyway it would be interesting to learn the identity of this other party besides Sandcastle, because that does seem like new info.

Maybe I'm just the cynic here but it seems to me while Darla J. Cravotta was rather well spoken, it seems she said nothing and said it very well.

I've worked with Darla, she knows a lot about these trail projects and has been a committed supporter. I don't have a problem with her recapping how much has been accomplished to date, a lot of which has just come together in the last 2 years. As for Sandcastle there just isn't anything to announce to the public right now. If they are still negotiating it won't help and could hurt the process to tell the public what's been proposed or what the snags are.

What could hurt in an election year is a public outcry that someone in the County has broken promises about the completion of the project…the squeaky wheel gets greased…especially in the weeks before November 2nd

Greasefoot, I wasn't suggesting you not put pressure on whoever you want about getting this portion complete, that's fine. What I'm saying is that releasing progress statements to the public like "Sandcastle keeps standing us up for meetings" isn't valuable info and could hurt the relations between the negotiating parties.

I don't think any sort of noise is useful at this point, particularly as affects politicians. What we want done is going to be done by staffers, not politicians. I'm with Tabby, raising issues may do more harm than good, especially as Election Day approaches.

I agree with Tabby. Darla has worked tirelessly on trail projects for decades. What Darla was trying to convey in her email to me was that the nature of connecting Pittsburgh to McKeesport involves dozens of easement negotiations as opposed to just one rail-to-trail conversion. It's very difficult.

I would only disagree that informing the public more often could possibly hurt the process. Specifics don't need to be delved into, but simply a heads up that "negotiations are ongoing and to please remain patient, these things take time" would be great to hear from time to time.

Sandcastle is such a focus for trail users and the bicycling community as a whole, because everyone knows that the old owners were opposed to negotiating an easement, and that there is more than a glimmer of hope with the new owners. But this issue does go beyond Sandcastle to the railroad and neighboring property owners. Even after everything is worked out, things will take another couple of years to build.

I think the key thing for us all to understand right now is that these negotiations take a long time, that there are teams of people working on this, that it is a priority, and we need to exercise some patience. It's tough because we all want to ride straight from the City to Ohiopyle or DC and it seems we're ever so close. But it took 20 years to get to this point because of how many different property owners there are along this alignment with various degrees of enthusiasm for this project.

I think the best thing to come of this is a once every month or two update to the wider community on how things are coming along. It most likely won't be a call-in like someone suggested, but will be an update from the ATA, the County, Friend of the Riverfront or Bike Pittsburgh on the state of the trail.

i think people would be much less upset if they just left the stupid gate open. there is no other safe way to get to the waterfront, forget about washington dc, people use that trail all the time because its the safest way for people without cars to get where they are going.

i think darla's work is great and so was the email, I don't expect the whole trail out of pgh to mckeesport to be done till 2015, also there is a washed out part of the C&O that isn't supposed to be done until 2012.

i often wonder what would happen if people started to slowly put crushed limestone on that stretch by the rails, and then sandcastle left the gate open... that's all that needs to happen.

As I saw (see) it, the County is in a better position to obtain right of way, than a small non-profit, with no money/leverage. As such, the various groups who are able to obtain monies for trail infrastructure will continue to build out the system, as it is quicker - typically design/build - and cheaper - private money, private bids, much volunteerism.

The few times the County did provide plans, specifications and construction estimates for a typical design, bid, build project the costs were obscene - mostly because the bike/ped trail was an 11th hour addendum, but also because the County must develop full plans and specifications with all the local, state and federal provisions associated with any typical County public works project.

You want to plan a corridor, talk to the County; you want paved trails, switchback ramps, fly-overs, tunnels or a sweet porta-john like the one in Deal, then you need to lobby ATA, Friends of the Riverfront, Steel Valley Trail Council or the Regional Trail Corporation. Why these folks don't make their information more easily available to the public is a travesty. Then again, in the land of a thousand governments it's reasonable to expect that one fiefdom know nothing of the other.

@mark et al: There's really no good incentive for Sandcastle to leave the gate open, it's just an invitation to vandals. There seem to be a couple of ways of getting around the property (along the tracks, up the stairs) which while not biker-friendly are still an option for the determined.

I think that the remaining land-owner is probably the junk-yard (?) next to the river. The RR right-of-way is too narrow for a safe bike trail.

I've noticed that over the summer the track along the railway [from trail to street] has mostly been worn through to dirt, enough to make the ride reasonable. Then again, there's a big pile of crushed limestone in the yard next to the trail... all you'd need is a wheelbarrow and a free weekend. [this is not a suggestion.]

I love how many junk yards are right beside rivers - Verona, Lawrenceville, waterfront. I love how there's a jail right beside the river. And the mon wharf parking lot.

I recognize that these rivers were highways in their hey day, and riverfront property in this industrial city was basically considered on/off ramps... But we're not a steel town anymore. Why do we treat our riverfront property like it's 1890?

/rant

Ejwme - The rivers are still highways, barges go up and down the rivers constantly. you dont load a few thousand tons at a time onto barges without being riverside.

believe it or not you WANT that traffic on the river since the option to that is throw all that barge traffic on the roads with trucks, or as freight on rails (you will never get another rail to trail then)

and as to why do WE treat our property that way, WE don't. The legal owners of the Property do.

rant/

I personally don't believe that Eminent Domain is now or has ever been a good idea. Remember that, depending on who is in power that same domain that could give you the trail can be used to take it away just to increase the tax base.

Always look to see how something can be turned around before give anyone in government the chance to use it.

/rant

So, assuming we leave Sadcastle alone, just how would one get from one side of the place to the other, assuming one hadn't a clue what roads, trails, goat paths, staircases, etc. actually exist?

I live north. I've been out thataway on a bike maybe once, ever. I have no intention of irritating either Sadcastle or the West Homestead P.D. I just want to ride my bike, and don't care to get killed on 837.

The RR is involved because when Sandcastle built their access road, they accidentally located it partly on RR property. This came to light during negotiations for the trail.

So even if Sandcastle's willing to give up part of their road, the trail builders also have to get permission from the RR. (And I'm guessing that even if the RR is willing to let the trail use its land, they might not be so accommodating to a private company like Sandcastle. So working out a deal between Sandcastle and the RR over the land one owns and the other's built a road on is possibly also part of this messy negotiation.)

The trail folks already have an agreement with Keystone, the property owners west of Sandcastle, to let the trail through as soon as they have an agreement with Sandcastle too.

Sandcastle might be reluctant to leave the gate open because of the issue Swalfoort explained recently in this thread about the RR access road between Millvale and Etna: let the public go through your property at will, and you can lose the right to keep them out in the future. (Presumably Sandcastle would prefer to negotiate a specific agreement than to risk losing rights inadvertently.)

"So, assuming we leave Sadcastle alone, just how would one get from one side of the place to the other"

If you start on the South Side Trail (technically the Baldwin Borough Trail, I think), there's no way to continue to Homestead without trespassing on somebody's property. Initially, you'd have to trespass on RR property for about 800 feet to get to Haysglen Street (beneath the Glenwood Bridge). Having done that, you have several options:

1. Continue on the gravel next to the RR until you reach Costco and a public street (about 4000 more feet).

2. Continue for 1200 feet as above. Once you pass under a RR trestle, the fence ends, so you can use Sandcastle's access road instead of the gravel. This option is more pleasant, but you do wind up trespassing on both RR and Sandcastle property, instead of just the former.

3. Head south on Haysglen Street for about 500 feet. It passes beneath 837. You'll see stairs off to your left. Take them up to the sidewalk next to 837, and ride it into Homestead. This options features just a wee bit of trespassing, but you have to contend with stairs and a mile of sidewalk that's not in great shape.

So if you want to get to Homestead legally, there's no way to get there using the Baldwin Borough Trail. (Of course, from up north you could always go some other way, say Beechwood to Browns Hill Road and the Homestead Grays Bridge.)

If Sandcastle is so concerned about vandalism, why does the waterfront side of the park have no fence whatsoever?

It does, same fence. I was just out there a few days ago.

If the use of land with no protest creates and easement, wouldn't Sandcastle then have one for their road, since it has been there for quite some time?

I don't understand the whole easement process very well, so I am only asking for clarification. If that is NOT the case, then on the flip side, there is no risk at railroads allowing cyclists by in other locations, right?

On the fence: Both ends have a gate. Last time I was there (not too recently), there was also a fence between the access road at the RR tracks, but only at the western end of their property. The eastern end had no such fence, and looked about like it does in Google Street View. Did they really add a fence all along the road? Seems curious in light of the negotiations.

Re easements: They have signs that prohibit through traffic, and fare booths when they're open that could presumably turn people away. I'm just guessing about the exact rules, but it seems like they're safe from creating an easement if they have rules like that. (In other words, they are protesting general public use, by their signs at least, and perhaps by having guards tell people caught trespassing when the park's closed to leave.)

You can leave the southside trail and cross over the track to Carson/837 either at beck's run or at the nd of the trail. Crossing the tracks is illegal, though.

If I understand correctly, there is no legal access to or from the trail once it goes east of the last business on the South Side.

Aside from the legalities, once a person get off the trail the only legal way east is to use 837, which is not much fun.

Not that I would ever cross railroad tracks illegally and do such a thing you understand, but that's what I've heard.

A little off topic…if someone finds themselves trespassing on RR property and a person identifies themselves as RR police be very polite. Tell them you are lost and you did not know you were on privet property. CSX has a privet police department similar to Pinkerton. Most of the time they drive an SUV or a truck that can ride on the rails. They hold commissions that permit them to enforce state laws, carry weapons, and can arrest you.

In most states (not sure about PA), there is also a separate statute for railroad trespass that is more strict than normal criminal trespass. This usually means that nobody has to warn you, they don't have to post signs.. if you are on RR property you can be cited immediately. Sounds like if you follow Greasefoot's advice, you could probably avoid being cited.

Tell them you are lost and you did not know...

Every damn time I get to the end of the SS trail, I get lost.

On the topic of a video, I've always wanted to do a handle-bars level shot of riding along on a nice smooth trail, then showing what it takes to actually get into Pittsburgh, i.e. riding on 837 where there is about 8 inches of shoulder (most cluttered with debris, fine gravel and trash). I've even had cyclist friends offer to pose as irate motorists while I was filming and pass me, shouting obscenities out their passenger window. I always thought Dan Onorato's camp would love to find that in their email inbox at this time of year right before the election.

Make the video, but keep it constructive rather than confrontational. "Here's what we have to deal with. It's government's job to support the changes we need."

Has anyone checked to see what sort of cycling support either gubernatorial candidate will provide? As head of PennDOT, we would have a hard time filling Mr Biehler's shoes, either party. Without thinking too hard about it, I can guess that one party may be more willing to listen to cyclist issues than the other.

Under Dan Onorato's watch, the GAP got new trail from McKeesport to Duquesne, and is getting new trail from Duquesne to Homestead soon. He set a two year goal date for the rest, and that was 11 months ago.

I think it's a bad idea to attack him politically because there's insufficient visible progress at the 46% mark on one remaining section.

If you want more bike trails, attacking the candidate who helped build some, instead of the candidate who wants less government spending and more public/private partnerships (like the city's parking lease plan), seems counterproductive.

Darla is a good person. She's very active on these issues. She's played a part in a lot of the trail development in the region.

It's possible that her hands are tied - consider that not only is she representing a government agency, but she's also dealing with a variety of private property owners, including the railroad, and several other agencies, such as ATA and RTC. Like it or not, that adds complexity to any negotiations. Also, since different organizations have different goals and they report to different constituencies, it's often the easiest path for everyone involved to keep things quiet until there are concrete results to announce. Again, that isn't to everyone's liking, but the goal is to get the job done.

In that sense, as Steven has observed, attacking Onorato is conterproductive in this case. He has publicly committed to completing the GAP connection, and under his watch, many key pieces have gone into place. (Riverton Bridge, Whittaker flyover, etc.)

It's very frustrating how slow progress can be, but there *is* progress. When I moved to Pittsburgh, there was no GAP. Since that time, not only have I seen a hundred miles of trail opened, but the inclusion of a variety of construction, including the reopening of the Big Savage tunnel, the Hot Metal Bridge, the Riverton Bridge, the Salsbury viaduct, and others. I totally empathize with the urge to get things done right now - it would be so sweet to hop on my bike at my house and have an easy, non-837 path to the GAP. It's happening, though. The people who are making it happen are not the enemy!

Attacking or embarrassing someone the day be for an election is not a good idea and will not work. I agree this would be counterproductive.

A much better approach would be to request something in exchange for an endorsement.

Open the gates before Nov 2nd and you can have my vote!

The only time I have seen actual progress was when Sandcastle was publicly embarrassed by the "Kennywoodn't" t-shirts and subsequent newspaper article and that momentary "we'll have an announcement any day now" thing earlier this year but otherwise don't see any functional progress.

sandcastlesucks.com can be yours for about $10.

Anything antagonistic to candidates who are actually helping us will be counterproductive to our long-term goals.

I think the new Sandcastle owners are on board with the vision. That website would have made more sense two or three years ago under the old ownership.

@pghbikeguy - funny idea, but I doubt you'd need to hire people to pose as irate motorists. Just ride around for awhile and I'm sure you'll get enough of the real deal.

(+1 for not antagonizing those who are trying to help us)

The carrot or a stick…

Open the gates before Nov 2nd and I’ll vote for you.

just got this in my inbox. october surprise

What a pleasant surprise!

Facebook Event Invite

WooooHoooo...

Oh man. Steven, turn that google street view to a 3 o'clock position:

A fence didn't stop this guy maybe

October 19... EXACTLY two weeks before the election.

Like him or not, Onorato is a good politician...

*pinches self* Is this like for real? Sure looks like it. *withholds applause until has more details*

It's about time. If Sandcastle hadn't objected, this section of trail could have opened a couple of years ago, for Pittsburgh's 250th, as it was supposed to. Stupid of Sandcastle & Kennywood to fail to see that the GAP will boost their publicity and their business.

In the meantime, if you're looking for a route through or around Sandcastle on bicycle, check this map: http://goo.gl/maps/RezW

Sandcastle/Kennywood had different owners a couple years ago.That's why the trail never went through.Now that there's a new owner they're less restrictive and that's the reason why a trail can now finally go past their establishment.Thank God a new owner took over Kennywood/Sandcastle!!

I now know who to vote for in the election.

Seriously guys, we have to get out and vote.

WOO!

I can't wait to hear the announcement on tuseday. Dan Onorato knows how to get a few more votes.

[um, why can I edit the post but not delete it?]

This is six kinds of awesome

Trail's finishing touch on horizon, in the P-G, says the deal with Sandcastle was done in July, and negotiating with CSX took the rest of this time. Glad nobody marched on Sandcastle then.

Should be a great new segment. I think we need a countdown clock though. 390 days to go....

Just another instance of spineless politicians caving in to family-havin', bike-ridin', anti-planet-destroyin' hipsters.

Oops, sorry, wrong thread.

Sweetness. My preeminent vision for this section of the trail is a platoon of enterprising homeowners trekking back and forth, trailering sheets of drywall and plywood on the evenings and weekends.

the deal with Sandcastle was done in July, and negotiating with CSX took the rest of this time. Glad nobody marched on Sandcastle then

It may have helped if they'd, you know, announced that... or at least let it leak out.

Anyways, great news - I wonder if there's any chance they'll get everything done before 11/11/11. I'm thinking of riding the GAP next summer.

Are you guys aware that Dan Onorato is making some announcement about the Gap Trail on Tuesday? I can try to get details to share. My guess is that this is the same info that is in the PG artcle above. But happy news.

Read above eppi. It's going through.

this is some of the best news i've heard in awhile