Is it me, or are suburban/rural bars almost entirely predicated on drunk driving? Is a designated driver the only saving grace? How commonly does one actually get used?
This is something that's been weighing on my mind every time I've visited my hometown or any fairly rural area ever since I turned 21 and realized what bars are like.
Does anyone have experience with these types of places? Is it as bad as I think it is?
I'm from Somerset county (pretty rural). Local police usually don't have a whole lot else to do on any given night except sit near the few bars in town and pull people over as they leave the bar. Makes some feel safer on the roads. Makes some go drink in a field instead of the bar.
Rt.601/985 between Somerset and Jennerstown come to mind. Lots of bars on that road. Also Water Level Road between Somerset and Rockwood.
I think you hit the nail on the head. I grew up in Monroeville, and still have a lot of friends out that way.
You will usually see a DD with a group, but DUI is extremely common. I stopped inviting friends from the suburbs to parties in the city because of this.
I can't tell you how many times I have got in a fight with someone after they told me an, "I was so smashed, I don't know how I didn't get arrested when he pulled me over," story.
I am amazed how lenient "law enforcement" can with DUI.
I grew up in the rural countryside outside Buffalo when the drinking age was 18. Not sure how prevalent this still is, but the concept of the DD at the time was the guy who only had four beers while the rest had twice that.
Today, I live within earshot of Pizza Roma by CCAC North, and routinely hear roaring engines, screaming tires, and people gunning full-bore *down* the hill on Perrymont -- where, at the moment, there is a piece of guardrail missing.
I don't know if it's any different than in the city. Watch how people drive when lleaving shadyside parking lots at 2:05 am.
I'm very cautious on the road on a Friday or Saturday night. I assume every driver is falling down drunk. Some of them are, and I only get to miss one of them.
I can ride from Swissvale to Oakland without letting even one car pass me while I'm on the steet. Takes about twice as long as usual. And sometimes I feel like being cautiously on the sidewalk is inadequite protection.
A year ago, I scolded a Crush the Commonwealth contestant for leaving a Breezewood motel at 2 am - "The blind folks are all driving home from the bars"
When I left my sheltered Minnesota life and moved in with some shady roommates in California they and their friends started arguing about who would go to the store for more beer. The sticking point of this argument were how many dew-ees they all had. "I can't go, I already have three dew-ees", etc. I had no flippin idea what they were talking about. They asked me if I could go, did I have any dew-ees (I didn't even own a car). I didn't want to seem uncool, since they all seemed to have them, so I mumbled something the lines of "yea, I think so". Only after living there for a few weeks, and watching them pour beer into Nalgene bottles before they got into their giant truck to drive around did I realize they all had multiple DUI citations. I moved out just as quick as I could. Some people need to be locked up.
I have toyed with the idea of showing up at a bar with my bike and making myself known to the manager: "Have one of your blitzed customers pay me what I'm worth, I'll strap my bike to the car somehow, drive them home safely, and bike back." If I didn't have a wife and kids, and was scared silly of the bike-at-night trip back, I might just do it.
I don't know if it's any different than in the city. Watch how people drive when lleaving shadyside parking lots at 2:05 am.
it's not terribly different in the city, except as a city resident and frequent bar-goer, i don't drive to bars. fridays and saturdays have more non-residents in the city than the whole rest of the week, so there's a lot more driving to be done.
An even more frightening concept is what my nieces in Wisconsin used to call "roading...." Which is to pile as many underaged kids into a car as possible (or as many friends as you deem "cool" and spend the evening driving the back roads of rural Wisconsin WHILE drinking beer or whatever you can get your hands on. So much lower risk of being caught/carded, apparently.... That's what teens in some of these rural towns do for fun. Thank God my nieces have grown up and moved away from that behavior!
In Chapel Hill, NC (and I assume other smallish places with lots of bars) there is an on-call DD service. You call the number, a guy arrives on a really tiny stowable motorscooter which he puts in the trunk or backseat, drives you home in your own car, then rides on to the next one. Interesting concept - the roving jitney!
I saw something like that on an episode of top gear.
I'd love to see an objective study of how many people leave bars drunk and drive home - I bet it's pretty high. I (was) no angel, which I'm not proud of, but luckily for everyone else I never caused an accident and luckily for me I never got caught.
I don't do it anymore - nowadays, I walk or take the bus (or occasionally call a cab), none of which are really an option out in the suburbs. I've abandoned my car knowing full well I was going to get a parking ticket, and I've walked my bike a mile home from the bus stop. I think a lot of people compare the very low chance of getting caught against the "ease" of just driving home and take their chances. I think a lot of people use the super-reliable "wait until I sober up" method vs. having a designated driver. I don't know what the solution is.
I know what the solution is.
DRINKING AT HOME!
Think about it:
-It's cheaper!
-You are your own DJ!
-The bathroom is less scary!
-No unwanted cigarette smoke (unless it's your own!)
-You probably won't get into a fight!
AND BONUS:
-You can't get a DUI walking from the den to the bedroom!
Meanwhile, Florida has passed a bill which will allow people with FOUR dui convictions to get their license back. Unless the governor vetos it.
How much drunk-driving does someone have to do in order to be convicted four times?
Amazingly, the FL MADD chapter was paid off somehow to support this.
(this is part of that highway bill that would also make bike lane use mandatory state-wide, no matter how well or badly designed that lane is. Bike advocacy organizations should be all over this, even if they aren't in Florida. It could happen here, too.)
I used to be a certified Intoxalock installer. It really exposed me to how lenient our justice system is concerning DUI's.
If you don't know about the Intoxalock, it is essentially a breathalyzer that is installed in your car. Before starting your car you have to blow into it, if there is alcohol in you, the car won't start.
The Intoxalock can be court mandated for repeat DUI offenders to get their license back. REPEAT-people who have already been in trouble for DUI.
At least once a week, some drunk would get his car towed to the shop because, "the Intoxalock is broken". Turned out, they were just drunk.
Having been hit by a drunk driver (376 eastbound by Sq. Hill), I do not tolerate DUI under any circumstance.
Did you guys have a breathalyzer at the shop to prove that the thing was in fact functioning correctly?
Back home in Ohio they passed a law maybe 7-8 years ago that required DUI offenders to display a specially-colored plate to warn all drivers on the road of their behavior. Awesome idea, except they designed them in the same colors as New Mexico's plates, which cause quite an uproar in the <10 NM-registered drivers residing in Ohio...
Scary thing is, I'd see those plates often. Hell, I've seen a car with these plates in Pittsburgh...
In Minnesota they had special plates too, they started with a W in the form WX#### where X is some letter (often a P) followed by 4 numbers all without any spaces. It is distinct from the typical XXX-### format, but otherwise looks the same. They quickly got the nickname "whiskey plates". You can find them outside most bars and liquor stores.
Some people should be locked up.
mustion, we kept a control machine in the shop. Also, the customers' machines were sent off for calibration very frequently.
They had to pad a fee to the company and a fee to us every time they had to be sent for calibration too.
It was $20-35 for us to go out, unplug the old one, plug in the new one, and put a tamper evident sticker around the plug.
When you first get one, it gets sent off every few days for calibration and analysis. It was pretty expensive for them, but what did I care...
Cars owned by repeat DUI'ers should have something like a dunce cap put on their roofs with the bold word "DRUNK".
LOL, ok maybe that falls under cruel and unusual, but I definitely think there needs to be something of the sort to help keep people safe. You need something VERY visible because the most dangerous car accidents are of the head-on variety, followed by the side-swipe variety. If you're involved in something like that, chances are good that you won't be seeing a license plate.
Repeat DUIers, by default, should not be permitted to operate cars. I don't care what "economic hardship" results from the lack of automobile. You misuse a dangerous device, it gets taken away.
While driving a cab, I saw the craziest stuff
happening at 2am when the bars were emptying. It was
really scary who was getting in cars.
The problem is, most of the people who drive drunk never get caught. If they wanted to get serious about it, instead of these trumped-up checkpoints they'd have cops in unmarked cars pay random surprise visits to bar parking lots. But of course, that would never fly.
Many cops do sit outside bar parking lots around closing time, at least in the places I've lived. Not sure about PGH.
Of course, people in the bars know this. Usually the story I hear is that they send the sober guy out, tell him to act super drunk, fall over, drop his keys a few times, then get in his car and drive off. Cop follows him, pulls him over, while everyone else is on their way home.
dwillen: SERIOUSLY? Couldn't the decoy get into some sort of obstruction of justice-type trouble for that?
==reddan
Of course, another aspect of the problem is the number of people who drive on suspended licenses. While there are potentially serious penalties for that, IMO they aren't serious enough. Further, those penalties don't seem to be applied very often. Same reasoning, too - "Oh, but how hard it would be to get to work." Really? Take a bus. Take a cab. Move. How many lives need to be risked to simplify the commute of a proven menace on the roads?
So, just thought I would bring this up since it is applicable to the topic.
How many people bike while innebriated? I have been known to after a few beers, but never when super drunk... When I do, I try to stick to trails when possible. Obviously it is still against the law since you are operating a vehicle, but its a far less dangerous vehicle to others than a 3 ton suv.
Of course, another aspect of the problem is the number of people who drive on suspended licenses. While there are potentially serious penalties for that, IMO they aren't serious enough. Further, those penalties don't seem to be applied very often.
This is why I advocate confiscation and sale at auction of any vehicle (unless it was reported stolen) operated by someone with a suspended license. Regardless of ownership.
Once the man says "you ain't fit to drive", hit 'em where it hurts if they do.
How many people bike while inebriated?
I have a funny story about that. Well, not so funny, just sad. I was crossing the 31st St Bridge and really really had to pee after drinking quite a bit. I hurried to scoot down to the path for some relief, but I didn't quite make it.
I lost a friend to a drunk driver in college, so my tolerance for DUI is minimal. That said, I think I would tolerate someone over the legal limit on a 30-pound bike going 10mph a lot sooner than behind the wheel of a 3000-pound car going 60mph.
"roading" thats what we did for fun as a teenager in suburban Ohio, smoke weed, drink beer, drive.
i don't drive anymore.
drove a taxi for six years, i hate getting in a car, truck, bus now and rarely have a beer.
Got a lot of speeding tickets driving a taxi,
Lots of people want you to hurry, "you in a hurry there slick?", "wanna go fast, hang on tough guy, we can do fifty in this twentyfive", 'watch out"
yeah lots of people driving around drunk, I was always a sober cab driver, not always`a sober teenage driver or passenger, yikes.
This thread makes me think of that drinking & driving ad they play on Fox Sports Radio 970AM all the time... "so glad we left that stupid party..."
fuun though driving a taxi, passengers would offer me beer, offer to "smoke me up", smoke me down" whatever the kids are doing, after Taxi-Cab confessions came on cable, everyone thought "they was 'So Krazy". Listen sweetie you wanna see crazy, it ain't flashing your drunk ass twins to white boy in his Mustang, I'll show ya crazy, they usually put thier Show away and shut up when things really got newsworthy.
If someone's a danger to others, take their license, put an ignition interlock on their vehicle, or in extreme cases, put them in jail. Labeling someone a drunk might not have the desired effect of that person clean up their act. Labels given have a way of becoming labels accepted.
Many cops do sit outside bar parking lots around closing time, at least in the places I've lived. Not sure about PGH.
One morning at 2:05 am, I asked a cop parked on Walnut street if he thought the guys pealing out of the parking lot were drunks, seeing as how the bars just closed.
He said "Oh? Is is 2 already?"
It isn't hard to pick out the drunk drivers in the wee hours. "Check points" are silly, when the police could spend all their time on some of the bad (most likely drunk) drivers at the appropriate times.
Ferrying drunks around in my cab, I was always amazed why the cops didn't make more arrests in certain neighborhoods, There were place where the cops did patrol vigorously, guess what, nobody drove their car there when they went drinking. It was a huge part of my business at 2 a.m.
Same thing with the drug hot spots. I could drive Home Slice over, in my bright yellow taxi at 7:00 or 4:00 and dude could pick up a few easy pieces, but the cops can't find it, couldn't do nothing. Some Drug spots would last for year and years, cops cain't do nuthin tho, doin bigger things probably, looking for stolen bikes maybe.
If you look at those police blotters, you'll see an awful lot of DUI arrests just after 2 AM.
i get a little nervous biking that late, and this is one of such reasons. i was hit by a drunk in early college, but i was in my dad's SUV. Flat tire and very minimal damage to the car I was driving, but I was stranded on the side of the road with two morons stumbling over themselves while it took the cops the better part of an hour to get there. meanwhile I watched these boneheads unload their bottles into a nearby garbage can at KFC and they had this time to sober up enough to not face charges. their car was completely totaled, or else I'm sure they'd have kept going. A man who stopped to help me visited their pile of parked steel which "smelled like a brewery."
I've read police blotters and have seen police doing their job, I've also driven the same guy to buy crack a few times a week to the same house. I've also recovered stolen bikes (the police depts job) Some kids steals a bike and rides it around the neighborhood he stole it from for a week, not hiding it, riding it on a main ave. Makes me think the police aren't really looking for said bike, Busy or not they're not trying very hard to locate stolen bikes. Makes me think they don't really care IMHO.
they're not trying very hard to locate stolen bikes. Makes me think they don't really care IMHO.
That's probably accurate. But I don't think they really look for stolen cars either. They'll run plate numbers of suspicious vehicles during a stop for other reasons, but nobody goes out scouring VINs.
And you know what? I tend to agree that crimes against persons are a higher priority than crimes against property. To whatever little extent I can influence public policy, I think it's a lot more important to curtail the road-raging, screaming, throwing things, and running down pedestrians. If they have to let the property crimes and the drug crimes slide, that's a tradeoff I would be willing to accept.
It seems to me that the police mostly just respond to whatever squeaky wheel is complaining the most. When people complain about prostitution in their neighborhood, the police step up those patrols. When people complain about drug dealers on the corners, police shift resources over there. If people keep reporting suspected DUIs or roadside assaults, eventually it will sink in.
+1 to what Lyle said.
I'm always amazed at how refractory drivers are to suggestions that we might take a taxi when drinking.
Last time it happened, my buddy was scolding me for being drunk on the way to his car. I agreed, but noted that he was too drunk to drive and suggested we go back to the bar call a cab, and have another drink.
He wouldn't do it. I'm embarrassed to say that I went with him instead of back to the bar.
A few weeks later, he scolded me for embarrassing him. I was, evidently, talking loudly in the bar about how I was dating a 20 year old (I'm in my 50's).
I don't talk to that guy anymore.
In any case, there has NEVER been a time when someone followed a suggestion from me that they find an alternative to driving due to intoxication. Maybe half a dozen times I've unsuccessfully done that.
Conversely, I once walked home when I knew I was sober enough to drive and scolded the hell out of the person the next day. Another time, I slept in some bushes next to a bar when someone suggested (quite correctly) that I shouldn't drive.
