have a good way to approach the "not wearing lights at night" subject with
There was a story out of Wisconsin last winter that will makes you wonder all the more...
does anyone have a good way to approach the "not wearing lights at night" subject with another random cyclist without them getting defensive or sounding preachy?
just wondering what other people's approach is.
i feel like there's been a thread about this before.
my approach: "hey man, you know, can't really see you right now, jus sayin'"
I have yet to find a good way to say this. It seems no matter how I approach people, they take it as an attack.
The only times I have had success is when I have given my backup lights away.
Living in Oakland, most of the people that ride light-less are students, that have little invested in their bike, and have a hard time spending $30 on a light set.
$30 now, or thousands (or your life) later...
well. it is illegal to ride without a headlight and at least a rear reflector at night.. I wouldn't mind carrying around a cheap lightset and giving it to someone if I knew they would use it the next time.
Just a thought tho, has bike-pgh ever done a info table or something on move in day at pitt or cmu or any of the univ's? Just think it would be a good opportunity to give out maps, and commute guides and stuff. Maybe recruit members too.
I would like to see the po po crack down on it. $30 light or $$$ ticket? I'll take the light.
Someone mentioned this during the whole g20 thing. If the popo gave a 20,30,50$ ticket, but also gave a set of lights to the cyclist, I wouldnt be opposed to that. the cyclist winds up with a set of lights and a bit of knowledge.
Granted, there is so much potential for abuse with that idea it would be hard to execute correctly.
I could hawk $5 lights next Friday before Critical Mass.
With a slight markup, of course.
A friend of mine used to ride lightless, until a selfless man at a local bikeshop recognized him riding one night and dropped a set on his front porch the next morning with a note reading "SFB!"
Has bike-pgh ever done a info table or something on move in day at pitt or cmu or any of the univ's?
not on move-in day, but we've done freshman orientation festivals and other university events. the freshman things haven't been too successful because sometimes this is some students first week living in a city, so they kinda laugh at us. it's been more successful with the other groups that are also there, or the university staff who already heard of us.
In Davis, the popo would setup on the busiest bike paths in the city on the first week of school, corral all the freshman riding by without a light, and give them a fixit ticket. Install a light and have a cop sign your ticket, or pay the $40 fee.
Perhaps you could tell the lightless riders that they could get a $50 ticket (or whatever the fine is) without a light. Sometimes monetary incentives are greater than non-existent self-preservation.
If they don't have the money they could at least go for something like this... http://bikehacks.com/illuminate-your-bike-for-free/
(More amusing because it was the next article in my RSS reader after a reply on this thread.)
I agree with dwillen. I've had success with using the law as an excuse when warning someone. It sounds less confrontational when you say "hey how's it going? I just wanted to warn you that cops sometimes give tickets for riding without a light."
I think it makes you seem like you are on their side. The law makes sense for once so why not take advantage.
I don't know if there is a way given the amount of time we are actually heading in the same direction or stopped at a light. I just lead by example.
Someone could buy a bunch of el cheapo fake Knogs:
http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19033
It's mystery and a peever to me as to why a bnike light should be so expensive.
A bike light costs $16? 20? 25?
Similar flashlights cost mabye $4. A fastener is worth a buck (maybe) and blinking mechanisms could be expected to cost, again, about a buck (probably much less).
So why are bike lights so expensive? Is everthing we get wehn we purchase a bike or bike parts similarly overpriced, but harder to compare with other products?
I actually tried out my new headlight thingy today.. I have a blaze 1watt, but wanted something brighter. I got a 6 watt led flashlight at target (rated at 160 lumen) and used a twofish bikeblock to secure it to the blaze. so it clips on and off and is aimed with the blaze.. makes a big difference and gives me flexibility. I can run the blaze in flash mode with the flashlight in steady. Best of both worlds. It was a lot cheaper than a ~160 lumen bike specific headlight.
Mick: I'd reckon it's relatively low production and high margins at small specialty retailers.
(My headlight is a $20 flashlight that's theoretically 200 lumen)
@EricR, there have to be dozens of sources for these around the area. City, county, many municipalities, have sign shops.
@stu: county yes, city kinda, muni's no. muni's use to hit up the county for free signs once upon a time.
Lowes has red reflective tape, or check online at most marine supply sites.
i recently donated a couple of blinkies to a good friend who always rode without them. by donated, i mean loaned him a bike with a light on it (and later after he broke the blinky just an extra light). he eventually used/lost/broke all of the ones i gave him, but now won't ride without one. i think he never got a blinky because of the cost and possible because he thought he was too cool/tough, but once he'd ridden around with mine for a while he was hooked. he's now all mr. super blinky with spares in his bag,extra batteries, opinions about all the brands/models etc. i think it cost me about $70 bucks but i seem to have converted him.
Interesting that this came up. I guess with the time change and maybe more cyclists around, I have been (not) seeing a lot more unlit bikes. As they are usually going in the opposite direction, I don't have time to have a long discussion so I just say "You need lights" as quickly and loudly as I can and leave it at that.
I suppose if we were going the same way I could point out how dangerous they are to themselves and others.
I did see a bike in Panther Hollow recently whose headlight was so bright I was blinded and shielded my eyes from the glare. But I did see them.
I carry a set of these in my seat bag as spares. I order 5 at a time because it reduces them to $4. I find myself ordering them every 2 months or so, because I keep giving them, lending them out, or breaking them.
I wouldn't use these as my primary lights, but I'd rather see people riding around with these over nothing at all-for the money, they're really hard to beat.
My problem with blinkies is that the cases are usually made out of styrene plastic, and so are very prone to breakage. The electronics seem to be sturdy enough. But I've snapped off two nice $10 to $15 blinkies in the past year, which is just damn annoying. Doing that without realizing it (for a rear one) is plain dangerous.
The people that I see riding without lights tend to be people who got a $5 flea-market bike or one that they found in a basement. Many times, these people either aren't aware that proper lights exist, or feel intimidated to seek out where to buy lights. They've never been to a bike store, and many of them feel that a bike store isn't for them, it's just for people with the $2,000 bikes. Therefore, finding ways to give them opportunities to buy them outside of bike stores would be beneficial.
Instead of the police pulling people over and just writing them a ticket, why not give them the opportunity to get a blinky right there? Police often carry bicycle helmets in their trunks to hand out to kids, blinkies could be another great addition.
Last night on the Jail trail someone came along with out lights and turned on a blindingly bright light pointed at my face when they got close to me.
Baffling.
How bout "Did your light burn out?"
almost wrecked into 2 bikers on the junction trail because they didn't have lights....
also, if anyone wants to go in on a roll of reflective adhesive material from 3m, I would be down. I hear it's the only brand that's worth a damn
Last night, riding from S. Oakland to Market District in Shadyside at 8:30p, I counted 19 bikes, only 2 had lights.
SpakBros: If you are serious, I can order it from my supplier.
ewwww. that's pretty bad
reflective tape: I want some amber. I don't have reflectors on my pedals, so I figure amber tape on the crankarms should keep me on the right side of Johnny Law.
I drive more than I like to and in the past few weeks, I have been noticing (at the last minute) a lot of cyclists who are near invisible, usually around the evening rush hour. They are all ages but around Oakland, a lot of students don't have lights. It's unbelievable!
I work in Oakland and would be willing to help sell cheap lights and reflector tape if Bike-PGH would organize it.
@ndromb
how much is a roll? How much comes on it?
pm me, I am way into it and I bet one roll would do a ton of bikes
What if police started writing tickets for no lights, for MORE than the cost of a blinky light, and then gave you the option to turn in a dated receipt for a blinky instead of paying the ticket? Handing them out is a good idea too, but they might not like the idea enough to pay for it and give up the trunkspace.
Also,
Erok: How bout "Did your light burn out?"
Winner, or "I think your light is off." Pretending you think they know what they're doing and that their light just accidentally went off is the best way to not make it sound like an attack.
If we here on this board formed the collective will to shout "LIGHTS!" at any unlit rider we come across, that would make a difference.
The question is do we want to become the light police or not?
Mick
Yes. It's better than the alternative.
The question is do we want to become the light police or not?
Nope. A casual "your light is off" is cool; nagging, yelling, and lambasting is counter-productive.
Besides, where does it end? We start yelling "lights!", we eventually move on to "helmet!", then we get to "two brakes!" and "wear wool!". Finally, we've solved so many other problems that we have nothing else to yell but "get a recumbent!"
yeah, i can't see anyone responding well to getting something yelled at them, especially folks that get things yelled at them all the time.
I yell "LIGHTS" at dark cars all of the time, but I suspect they just forgot to turn them on rather than not having them.
I see no problem doing the same for a cyclist. I also think some people do not see it as a problem to not have them on their bike.
