BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

Some people are assholes. Some of them ride bikes.

Some people are assholes. Some of them ride bikes.

+1

assycles

cycloles

Reduce green circle x10, increase purple circle x4, maintain overlap.

It wasn't me. I'm creepy, I wear spandex, but never spandex with a bra. Also I work with cancer patients everyday its not something to be taken lightly or jokingly tamper with anything that brings awareness or encouragement to cancer research, survivors, and their family.

Perhaps they didn't know it was for breast cancer awareness or that they were to be donated to women's shelters afterwards

Mark, it's something AE is doing

Ugh I was worried that people would steal them. What a shame. Assholes come in all shapes and sizes. Yep, I mean that literally.

Event organizers are well aware of this gaping hole in their plans, and usually route around it. A successful display like this is not out of reach,around a week is sufficient to show support without risking thievery or vandalism.

I think they did a pretty good job. I recall them being just high enough up that the threat of falling off the bridge would deter most people.

They also used pretty heavy-duty looking cable from what I recall, but the bras themselves are attached with zip ties.

When I read this orginally, I thought that the bras were put up there as celebration of breast cancer survivors or memorials to victims. As such it would be creepy indeed to remove them

But the bras are not such a display.

It seems to be advertising for American Eagle - cynically coat-tailing on the breast cancer issue to use a location that would otherwise be justifiably unavailable to them.

I'm not sure why anyone would castigate the people who removed them. Am I missing something?

http://www.goerie.com/article/20110929/NEWS06/309299916/Pittsburgh-bra-display-supports-breast-cancer-awareness

http://www.wpxi.com/news/29329047/detail.html

Mick- draw your own conclusion. seemed like a good cause to me. I was unaware of the American eagle tie in until I looked it up.

@ Mick you are wrong about it being an advertisement for AE. Yes they donated the bras but it is all about the fight against breast cancer. I know about Bright Pink and all they do for cancer patients.

I see what cancer does to people everyday and understand the importance of the bra display. Stealing the bras was in bad taste

@ mr Marvelous. Yes they donated the bras but it is all about the fight against breast cancer

Here's some links you might want to read. I've excerpted some quotes, but they don't really do the original texts justice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkwashing#Pinkwashing

Such promotions generally result in a token donation to a breast cancer-related charity, while exploiting the consumers' fear of cancer and grief for people who have died to drive sales

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_Cancer_Action

BCAction is also known for its Think Before You Pink campaign, launched in 2002, which encourages consumers to ask critical questions before buying pink ribbon products.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_cancer#Overemphasis

Ultimately there is a concern that favoring sufferers of breast cancer with disproporionate funding and research on their behalf may well be costing lives elsewhere."

http://www.barbaraehrenreich.com/cancerland.htm

It is the very blandness of breast cancer, at least in mainstream perceptions, that makes it an attractive object of corporate charity and a way for companies to brand themselves friends of the middle-aged female market. With breast cancer, "there was no concern that you might actually turn off your audience because of the life style or sexual connotations that AIDS has," Amy Langer, director of the National Alliance of Breast Cancer Organizations, told the New York Times in 1996. "That gives corporations a certain freedom and a certain relief in supporting the cause." Or as Cindy Pearson, director of the National Women's Health Network, the organizational progeny of the Women's Health Movement, puts it more caustically: "Breast cancer provides a way of doing something for women, without being feminist."

mick - people would 'castigate' these actions because it's sleazy... if you can't see a couple of grown men stealing some bras from any sort of public display as sleazy than I can't help you. regardless of it's dubious tie ins to american eagle, almost everyone here, and anyone else I've talked to about it, thought it was about breast cancer and it 99% is.

Doing something for women, whether feminist or not, is a good thing.

there are cameras on a light pole at the southside end of the hot metal (motor vehicle) bridge. perhaps the cameras know who took them?

Those bras were not up there as a reasoned and sincere effort against a health threat. To think otherwise is about as far-fetched as the old BP ad claims of working for the environment.

The bras were up there as a cynical manipulation. Nothing more. Nothing less.

You guys are being naive.

PS I didn't take them down, in case anyone was wondering. I simply applaud those that did.

^Come to my Oncology unit and tell all my patients that you applaud that, and there is something wrong with grown men stealing underwear.

How did bras on the HMB do anything to help patients on your oncology unit, Mr Marvelous?

I can't really understand any kind of justification for the guys stealing the bras unless they were going to auction them off to benefit breast cancer patients or research -- if that were the case, they'd probably fetch a lot more than more than $1/bra, in which case I'd applaud their subversive efforts. (Bras are expensive!).

Sigh... It's cool I don't think you'll ever understand, I do respect your opinion and understand what you are trying to say. But the meaning of all of this is bigger than bras or you and I.

@Mick: People care about symbols, regardless of how effective they may be in terms of "real change".

It's rather like walking up to a peaceful protest and pissing on the demonstrators. That degree of disrespect is unwarranted in a civil society, regardless of how ineffective the demonstration may be.

(And, to be honest, I didn't know about the AE connection until it was brought up here...it's not like there's signs on the display.)

Mick, I can support in general terms a critique of Pinkwashing (don't get me started on the pink chemicals dumped in the fountains each October!). The other side, however, is the reality of dealing with a health crisis as a patient or caregiver. In the case of all the Pink Ribbon stuff, it has made a difference in changing the culture of secrecy and shame about a fairly common disease. I would like to see the culture around prostate cancer change, too.

OK, sorry, but I can't help but try to lighten up this thread.

Next year. AE should hang "truck nutz" on the bridge.

@ Pseudacris haha "truck nutz"! you are the best!

^^Fantastic idea.

I can think of a few "athletic supporters" I'd be tempted to hang from a bridge, too.

@ Mr Marvelous But the meaning of all of this is bigger than bras or you and I.

To me the meaning is this: We have to chose whether to use resources rationally for health care or to allow resources to be diverted into sentimental responses to emotionally-charged health issues.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_cancer_awareness#Risks_of_too_much_awareness

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2001/oct/07/cancercare

http://www.prwatch.org/node/7436

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/aug/17/health/he-breast-overdiagnosis17

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breast_cancer_awareness#Breast_cancer_as_a_brand

@pseudacris I would like to see the culture around prostate cancer change, too.

Prostate cancer culture seems to be going along fairly well. There were recent rational recommendations that are not being challenged emotionally.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/07/health/07prostate.html?_r=1

As the article points out, in a similar situation concerning breast cancer screening a few years ago, the scientific results were politically overwhelmed by the kind of "breast cancer awareness" that the hanging bras promote.

We can do without that kind of prostate cancer culture, thank you.

Heh...I suspect there are two separate issues being conflated here. One, which IMO is certainly worthy of discussion, is the concern Mick has raised regarding pinkwashing and emotionally-charged healthcare decisionmaking; the second issue is the original topic, which revolves around a set of Adam's apples engaging in highly disrespectful behavior. I have no problem dismissing the latter as run-of-the-mill douchebaggery, much like vandalizing a ghost bike or other memorial site.

Well said, reddan.

@Mick - I do have huge respect for the Breast Cancer Action group, particularly their efforts against the use of rBGH and their challenges to BRAC patents.

When an oncology patient sees something like bras on the bridge to them its encouragement, It tells them we are with them and we care. I wear a Livestrong bracelet not because of Lance Armstrong, or because of cycling. But as a symbol of my love and compassion, and understanding of their hardship. They don't care about AE or their motives they just want us to stand with them. When someone vandalizes a symbol of hope you don't think about getting even with AE, you think who would be so insensitive. And grown me shouldnt steal underwear/

I realize that whoever took the bras down may have been being highly disrespectful.

On the other hand, putting them up there in the first place was not a respectable act - although it was disguised as one.

The removal may well have been a response to that.

When I realized what was happening (which was well after this thread started), I was infuriated at it

This wasn't to celibrate the owners of the bras surviving. This wasn't to mourn the owners of the bras dying.

The sleazy owner of the bras was selling lingerie.

http://www.timesonline.com/news/local_news/bra-covered-bridge-has-a-purpose/article_55ef2123-275f-5c5e-b17d-3919bea454b0.html?mode=image&photo=2

Photo by Ed Rieker for Aerie by American Eagle

If, say, a helmet company started putting white bikes around in inappropriate places to "promote bike safety" when they were really trying to publicize their product?

You could well catch me peeing on white bikes.

Mick, I believe 60 minutes has an opening since Andy Rooney retired… maybe your curmudgeon quotient is sufficiently high to have an interview? (love ya dude!)

Mick, stop shitting all over things.

I think I'm done with this topic after this. I could go around ripping Livestrong bracelets off of people all day and give them article after article about why they shouldn't wear them and how Lance Armstrong might have cheated. Cancer patients don't care about that or cycling or the sponsors behind Livestrong. When I was hugging a 17 year old cancer patient goodbye after she spent the last 3 months in the hospital, and her whole family had Livestrong bracelets on I had one on and the staff had theirs on she knew she wasn't alone. She really didn't know anything about Lance but she knows how important the bracelets are. Vandalism doesn't hurt AE one bit, if they really want to make a difference come and volunteer at the Cancer Institute. Not knowing how bras on a bridge makes a different on my oncology unit shows you know nothing about cancer. If anyone wants to stick it to AE step up and do your part spend time and volunteer come up with programs so we wont need AE anymore. If not step aside and let the people who really care do their work.

I guess the sad thing from my point of view is how much attention breast cancer gets compared to everything else. My aunt is going to die soon from colon cancer, her and her husband are broke because of it. My dad is in remission from throat cancer. I doubt the people who took down the bras even knew what it was about because it's just a string of bras on a bridge. I honestly thought that a CMU art student put them up until I realized it was breast cancer awareness month.

@Mick - let it go. Your position is offensive. Vent your contrarian side on other topics.

@marko Mick, I believe 60 minutes has an opening since Andy Rooney retired

I don't watch TV much, so I don't know for sure.

My impression is that Rooney talked of trivial subjects, using silly arguments, tongue in cheek, for entertainment value.

This is a deadly serious topic.

I'm making a serious argument. I'm in earnest.

I expect no one to be amused.

@ALMKLM I'm offended by all this. The subject deserves to be aired out.

@STEFB I'm not "shitting" on anything.

@ Mick I do know that for every bra that is taken down there are people like me who would hang 100 in its place, and I hope you aren't serious about urinating on ghost bikes, but I would wash and put fresh paint on every ghost bike. As I said before if you are truly passionate about this than do something positive that doesn't involve vandalism or sitting on you couch posting on bike pittsburgh. If you need help on getting information on how you can do your part for cancer patients or where you can volunteer let me know. Use some of this energy spending time with and helping oncology patients. But I guess it easier to criticize AE rip bras down and urinate than it is to roll up your sleeves and do some work.

In fairness to Mick I don’t think he is being hateful toward cancer patients at all, he is pointing out the ‘Corporatazation’ of the breast cancer cause. Some companies are selling pink-themed products as a marketing ploy with very little money or support for the cause. I don’t know if AE is in this category or not, but there are definitely examples out there like KFC last year.

A good parallel is the green-washing that goes on with environmentally conscious products. I love buying products that say they are environmentally safe – then spend the next few minutes removing the nonessential packaging from their product.

My personal view is that the whole Pink thing is good at raising awareness, and it provides a rallying point for survivors and those going through treatment. For those reasons I think it is a good thing. But I think that if a corporation was truly concerned about breast cancer they would donate ‘all profits’ from the sale of their product not just $1. What do you think AE’s profit is per bra? Are they concerned with cancer or are they trying to sell more bras?

+1

Also, the guys who stole the bras from the bridge are dicks. Not because this has something to do with breast cancer, but because taking things is wrong.

NPR had a story on pinkwashing just about an hour ago. It was not "pro-cancer" or "anti-patient" or something, it was pointing out what has been said above about the whole pink thing being more a feel good, free marketing campaign for some companies than anything else, or to obscure the fact that the given company is actually a producer of carcinogenic compounds in their day to day existence.

Putting a pink ribbon on it or uttering the words "breast cancer" does not make something inherently good. I think that is all that is really being said here.

I've not read about the AE promotion enough to make any judgment call on it. I am making no particular claims about the bras on the bridge project.

I had absolutely no idea there was any affiliation with AE until Mick brought it up to be contrarian. Now whenever I pass, I will think about AE... way to go

The waterfalls under the convention center used to be pink on both sides, but now its only pink on one side.

reminds me that I don't have any magnetic ribbons on my vehicles...

Magnetic ribbons don't adhere too well to tube steel.

I never had the gumption to put one on my car.

Ah Mick, I know the feeling of having most of the board disagree with you

If the amount of dollars invested in breast cancer research is disproportionate to the threat and companies are just using it to push profits, I can see your disdain for the action

That being said, I knew AE was doing it from day 1. I don't shop at AE though so I didn't really care and agree with other people who thinks it is a symbol of hope. I also like the idea that we can stick bras on a bridge. I can't imagine that would be acceptable 100 years ago.

There's an Animal Rights tie in with this as well.

The Komen for the Cure people told this really touching story of how one of the Komen sisters on her dying bed said "Don't let his happen to other families!" Even now my eyes well up a little. My father died from cancer.

But Komen supports animal testing, which I believe is both ethically and scientifically questionable. So to me I don't think the dying sister was saying "And no matter what the cost, test on millions of animals in useless tests that are nearly impossible to extrapolate useful data from!"

So that's what the pink campaigns usually remind me of

Also:

http://mattbors.com/blog/2011/10/13/ultra-awareness-man/

The east coast Tour De Pink requires that every cycling participant wear a helmet. Discuss.

I don't know, dwillen, but I bet that most of the SAG wagons are SUVs.

Alas, the bras are now down. I crossed the hot metal bridge this afternoon and everything’s gone. My understanding is that they are going to wash the bras and then donate them to a woman’s shelter which is nice, but who knows what condition they are in having hung out in the sun and rain these past few weeks.

Save the boobies!

Actually, I thought it was Save the Tatas! No, wait...

This should bring it all back home...