BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

dammit, you beat me to it

anyone have pics?

Ha ha

Is it done already? So it's nine feet wide but is two ways. That makes it about as wide as a small car lane.

Article also says the missing link will be funded with TE money.

i believe it's a car lane

That's awesome, that sidewalk there was a mess. Once you're past that you can get back on the actual (separated) trail.

Now we just need to convince them to connect the shopping district with the trail and install some bike racks. It's a bit of a hack getting off the trail to buy goods and services.

you know, this is the first 2 way cycle track in the state of pa, methinks

Completion of the bike lane leaves the one-mile gap across the Sandcastle Waterpark and Keystone Metals sites as the only incomplete piece of the Great Allegheny Passage. Progress has been made on design and financing for that section and construction on the Sandcastle property may begin this fall, Mr. Paulik said.

This fall?!

how did you do that quote thing?

the

text

oh yeah

oh yeah

+1

So how did you type in the html code without it doing the blockquote?

& lt ; blockquote & gt ;

but without spaces after &, before ;

This is great. I did a program this year with

50 kids and we rode this stretch and chose

the sidewalk. The cars were freaking flying

here, it was ridiculous.

OOOh YEAAAAH

When I drive somewhere near the speed limit there people get pissed. As soon as it opens up to two lanes I am passed by some Jeff Gordon wanabees.

actually, just surround the HTML tag with backticks (the thing on the tilda key), pretty sure bbpress strips out those character references that Nate mentioned.

Erok, why don't you (or someone on the staff) make a sticky post for the html codes for quotes and photos among other things?

I know I always forget how to hyperlink or add photos...

PIC! from the gap facebook page:

"Crews are painting the new Great Allegheny Passage bike lane at the Waterfront, Homestead, PA.

Once the lines are painted vertical markers, called candles, will be installed separating the cars from the cycles.

This dedicated lane replaces having to ride on the sidewalk. It's a big improvement for the Pittsburgh end of the Passage. Now on to Sandcastle."

Saw this tonight. Everything is implemented really well. A large "slow" sign is painted in each direction before the turn and the lanes are perfectly painted with dashes where there should be dashes and ending / beginning where they should. If only everything bike related could be implemented this well.

So... With a month left to go, any updates on 11/11/11?

they announced many moons ago that 11/11/11 wasn't going to happen (which i would have assumed you already knew?). And, from the article in the OP, there is no set date:

The last piece will be finished sometime next year, but with federal Transportation Enhancement funding in the mix, the project is subject to a complicated review process that makes it difficult to give a specific completion date, he said.

One thing I worry about is those candlesticks placed close enough to the curb that no plow or maintenance vehicle could ever service that part of the trail without destroying their anchorage.

What, you don't think they have thought ahead and realized they need one of those nifty bike-lane plows? But we always plan for maintenance here, right?

What I can hope for is that someone is looking beyond the one-time capital expense and developing a means to operate and maintain this trail corridor for all seasons.

I wouldn't mind a municipal plow throwing snow and debris into the trail path so long as a trail plow is not far behind.

I could say something snarky or critical, but would like to believe that they really do intend to keep the bike lane clear in the winter.

One of the reasons why biking all over Western New York is so pleasant, with all its wide roads, is that they need someplace to push the snow four months out of the year. Pittsburgh gets enough snow to be irritating, but not enough often enough for road design to take it seriously.

Are the sticks permanent? Theoretically they could remove them for the winter and allow plows to plow the lanes, but I doubt they plan to. They don't plow the trail and this is technically part of the trail.

The sticks are as permanent as any local infrastructure can be. Candlesticks are tamper proof to a reasonable degree but are often sheared or shredded by plows and vehicle accidents.

Note well, this design is being implemented on a township/borough street and not a state owned road.

There's a similar roadside bike trail using candlesticks on the stretch of the Montour Trail that runs alongside Peters Creek Road between Snowden and Gill Hall Roads. Google street view.

I understand that segment was built during construction of the nearby Mon-Fayette Expressway, presumably by narrowing the former roadway, as in Homestead. It's nice, apart from the wavy pavement, but many cyclists ride in the road there and ignore the trail.

As to plowing the Homestead segment, if they plow the adjacent sidewalk, it seems plausible they might plow the trail there too. But if they don't, big deal. It'll still be easier than the unplowed segment to Duquesne that it connects to, since you've got a reasonably safe plowed road right there next to it.

well, that would be a shared-use path, more like a trail, no? probably why many cyclists ignore it too. i still think the one in homestead is the first bike-only physically separated 2-way cycle track in the state. there is a sidewalk there. that one you linked to looks nice tho, how it's raised up

It's nice, apart from the wavy pavement, but many cyclists ride in the road there and ignore the trail.

I remember one of the bicycling segments on the radio had a man who called up complaining about cyclists not using that Montour section. "There's a trail RIGHT. THERE!" The guest tried to explain that the trail there was wavy and not comfortable to ride on.

I'm curious. How will this trail eventually link up to the one that will be going through Sandcastle? From what I know, the existing trail along the river there ends and then takes an elbow bend to the bridge that crosses over Waterfront Drive to the main shopping plaza. Will the "trail be just the sidewalk along the road from this point to the Sandcastle driveway behind the Costco?

If so, that's a bit disappointing unless the sidewalk were repaved into a new shared-use path instead.

hmmm not sure what you mean. there is already a trail behind all of the housing next to the river and goes until like fudruckers or some crappy place

the trail goes behind all the restaurants until the big pedestrian bridge that takes it over the roadway... thats the best way to find it.

Yeah, I'm using the pedestrian bridge as a reference. Where would the trail go from that point to the Sandcastle driveway? Would there be a new continuation of the trail along the river or would it just be the sidewalk along Waterfront Drive that currently exists starting at the bridge and going to the Sandcastle driveway?

My impression is that for the section from Mitchell's Fish Market (at the pedestrian bridge) to the Sandcastle entrance, it'll start out as just the existing sidewalk, but they're planning to improve it. I don't know if that means another section of that nice new two-way bike lane, or maybe widening the sidewalk there into a shared use path, or something else. Whatever it is, I think it'll follow the route of the existing sidewalk (not go behind Costco, for instance). The road seems plenty wide enough to build a nice bike facility there.

Maybe they'll improve the area around the pedestrian bridge while they're at it. It's got two tight turns to get from the riverfront trail to the sidewalk heading toward Sandcastle.

They have enough space to build another two way bike lane but I would worry about the "responsible drivers" pulling in and out of the Costco parking lot not paying any attention.

For those still seeking clarification as to what I'm talking about, I made a map:

http://www.google.com/maps/ms?msa=0&msid=211466978520451752283.0004af1baa9f018b83784

Even if additional two-way bike lanes were made in the roadway, the sidewalk would need to be altered in the area where it would have to jump from the roadway to the riverside trail. Also, looking at this map, it concerns me the number of vehicle entrances. That alone makes my vote for two-way bike lanes along the stretch for increased driver awareness.

Finally, I also think it would probably be a good idea to just use the two-way bike lane idea (with pylons not barriers) along the length of the Sandcastle driveway. Is that what's being looked at?

New blog post on it: http://bike-pgh.org/blog/2011/10/13/first-cycle-track-in-pa-installed-in-munhall/

I think it's going to seem weird traveling 'against' traffic with only pilons separating you from oncoming cars - I can't wait to try it and prove myself wrong.

Just in time for the NACTO presentation by Secretary LaHood at 2:30 EST today!

I've ridden these in DC and Seville and they work great and feel much much safer than just sharing the road. There's a 5 foot painted buffer and will be reflective bollards. Motorists won't hit you unless they're trying to.

This is awesome. Went in quick. No sign of this, no survey marks even, 10 days ago when I rode through there on my way to the GAP.

FWIW I don't believe this is the first separated, two-way bike way in PA, or even on the Great Allegheny Passage. There is a mile or two of separated path like this that goes through Connellsville. It is separated by a curb, but similar.

@marko - i see your point in reality we all ride "against" traffic within a similar distance with only a double yellow line separating us, all the time.

Street view of the bike lanes in Connellsville.

the connellsville folks even put up a curb! and trees!

i'd like to see a curb implemented on this one too.

so does this mean the sandcastle gate is going to be left open on the offseason?

So when will McKeesport get this treatment?

mckeesport is and always will be a sad spot on the GAP

that seems a little harsh given how hard the McKeesport Trail Commission has worked and how much progress they've made there. You've ridden the GAP a bunch haven't you, Mark? Don't you remember how much worse it was there just a few years ago?

It's depressing going through there. It's a reminder of how far Pittsburgh has fallen.

Regarding the trail it seems McKeesport is a slave to the four lane highway they don't need. Four lanes plus a turning lane is too much road.

wide roads, especially undercapacitated ones are a blessing in disguise. Imagine all the ways they can be reworked- landscaped medians, parking lane creating a buffered bike lane, bike lanes on each side with a center turn lane, etc. Loads of options. Time, money and will required of course but nothing about it seals McKeesport as a lost cause.

Which is why I asked when it would get the same treatment. There is too much road in McKeesport and a need for a better trail.

Wow, Connellsville! That's awesome. I stand corrected and will issue a retraction. Thanks for pointing that out Brad and Marko.

As for Mckeesport, I'm told that an application for funding is being submitted to improve that connection along the lines of what just went in to the Waterfront.

I say take the separated bike lanes all the way along Waterfront Drive to Sandcastle! It's a four lane road with turning lanes that tapers ultimately to the roadway you see above. I've never seen enough traffic along it to justify a five-lane wide roadway there.

This would solve the connectivity issue I raised earlier as well.

Great news about McKeesport. The trail-on-sidewalk there is dicier than the Homestead trail-on-sidewalk that this great new bike lane replaces. It'll be wonderful to someday have a proper bike lane in McKeesport too.

Correction issued:

http://bike-pgh.org/blog/2011/10/13/first-cycle-track-in-pa-installed-in-munhall/

there is also a bikelane like this in the middle of the state on one of the rail trails that is also one of the state bikeroutes... i can't remember what town it is in though!

Up to date photo of the whatchamacallit.

There are indeed plans in the works for a new alignment (off-street) in McKeesport. Thanks Tabby for pointing out the hard work of trail groups like the McKeesport Trail Commission.

The West Homestead section of the GAP (aka road to Costco) is also being looked at regarding a safe route and -gasp- signage.

I really liked the area around the McKeesport marina. Tight quarters but nicely implemented.

i have to say i was surprisingly impressed by the McKeesport waterfront the first time i saw it. I can't say that i'll always go out of my way to use that part of the trail as i know how to get there on the streets. but if i was an out of towner coming in the first time, it would leave a nice impression

Does anyone have any updates on the Sandcastle part of the trail? I rode through from south side no problem today, but on the way back a security guard wouldn't let me through and I had to ride on the side of 885 (ugh!). This part of the trail can't come fast enough!

I haven't heard anything new since the PG article from last month (already linked in the first post). They're waiting on the Feds, and expecting it to be done some time next year, but nothing more concrete yet.

Meanwhile, the adjacent Pennsylvania American water project closure is finally over ("early spring 2011" was the original target), so once they get Sandcastle/Keystone finished, they're clear to downtown.