BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

yeah, that's the raging debate in our world. chicago bicycleland federation recently changed their name to active transportation alliance.

peds are hard to organize. not many people self-identify as one-when was the last time someone describe themself as a "pedestrian" on their facebook page. and quite frankly, most don't feel like they're getting the shit end of a stick, because, well, there are facilities ie sidewalks, and you don't need to walk around with a blinking light on your back in order to do your thing at night. there's also ADA that helps make sure that walking facilities are accessible to the most vulnerable. that doesn't mean that they can't be improved, but the precedent is there.

i'm at odds in a way, but think that we should stay bike focused.

+1 erok.

In my view, Bike-Pgh needs to focus on bicycle advocacy, much in the same way ACTC focuses on transit. I am not aware of a city- or regionally-oriented organization strictly focused on pedestrians. If there was, both Bike-Pgh and ACTC should ally ourselves with it.

We are not at cross purposes. Quite the contrary, there is a lot of overlap here. Bikes, peds, transit -- anything and everything that will help to change governmental opinion that the only viable way to get around is by car, can only help all of us.

I'm in no way in favor of bikepgh making any changes toward this, i was actually pretty surprised that anyone was changing from a bike org to a alt transportation org. that being said i think it would do interesting things for membership and funding, everyone is a pedestrian, not everyone is a biker. i think there are some things that an organization like this would be able to accomplish easier than a bike only organization.

if another bike/alt transportation org were to pop up in pgh i think this would be an interesting niche to fill.

Not everyone is a pedestrian. While I was waiting for the bus this winter, on more than one occasion I saw a (seemingly able bodied) lady get in her car, drive less than half a block, illegally park her still running car, dump a few letters a mailbox, get back in her car, illegally back up through an intersection and up the street, parking back in front of her house.

I'm in favor of keeping bike-phg bike-pgh. The only problems I have as a ped are the asshole drivers not stopping for crosswalks, stop signs, yield signs, etc and people not clearing their sidewalks of ice/snow, or keeping them free of obstructions. All of these things could be fixed under the umbrella of cycling, and peds benefit as well.

Motorists not stopping for crosswalks is definitely a peeve of mine. In other countries, a crosswalk is a place where peds don't even look before stepping out. Here, I more often than not see folks actually waiting for cars to pass.

Personally, I try to be a jerk and make them stop.

But I also agree about keeping focused on bikes for now.

@alnilam It is one of my biggest peeves. Just this morning on my way between my bike locker and work, still decked out in my bright yellow rain gear, I approached a crosswalk with some poor girl waiting there in the rain as car after car drove past, not even slowing. I took a step into the street and waved my arm in a stop motion to suggest the next car should stop, when they clearly didn't plan even slowing down. The driver looked super annoyed, and I shouted, "CROSSWALK" pointing at the ground. A jerk moment for sure, but at least the girl waiting in the rain was able to continue wherever she was walking while all this driver, in such a hurry, stayed safe and dry in the car.

Oddly enough, if you go somewhere more bike friendly (Minneapolis, DC, just about anywhere on the west coast) you rarely see people blowing through crosswalks like they do here.

you don't have to go to other countries, just other states and communities where the yield-to-pedestrians-in-crosswalk law is taken seriously. In addition to where Dwillen said, I'm thinking of New England.

I guess it's cool that they're putting in more of those pedestrian signs that stick up in the middle of the crosswalk, but I haven't really seen a noticeable improvement in yielding. These things take time and drivers will mimic behavior of others, so when I'm in my car I try to be an "ambassador" to driving sensitively towards cyclists, bikers and pedestrians.

So does anyone want to help start a pedestrian rights group?

Just FYI -

1)Bike Pittsburgh and/or their staff have joined forces with a statewide group that will be working towards bicycle AND pedestrian advocacy. That's the extent of what I know...maybe someone else can provide more details.

2) The three Transportation Management Associations in the region (Oakland, Airport Corridor and Downtown) will be kicking off a "Walk Pittsburgh" campaign in the coming weeks. They are already stepping up to the plate on issues of pedestrian advocacy. I am certain they would welcome your participation.

3) Most pedestrian "support" responsibilities occur at the local level. That includes sidewalk maintenance; crosswalk identification/request for assessment; crosswalk painting/maintenance; and pedestrian signals. The most effective advocacy will focus on the very local level.

4) The City of Pittsburgh has a (relatively new) position of ADA Compliance Monitor (or something similar); he might be a valuable ally.

5) SPC would welcome pedestrian interests at the quarterly pedestrian-bicycle advisory committee meetings. Next meeting is August 11th. PM me if interested in learning more.

6) Let me know if you get anything going; I might be able to provide a little in the way of institutional support.

7) PennDOT (District 11) has completed a handful of pedestrian compliance reviews at locations around Pittsburgh over the past year or so. In partnership with local law enforecement they do a targeted review of motorist compliance for a few hours at a pre-identified location. They did one on Liberty Avenue, downtown, and another in Oakland, that I can remember. Maybe we can ask them to do a couple more?

This is definitely within ACTC's bailiwick. Every transit rider is a pedestrian twice as often.

Related thought: In my 20ish years of transit advocacy, I've tried to identify reasons why people don't use transit. Fear of getting killed by passing traffic is right up there.

Yeah, we did get the new org, PA Walks and Bikes going. it's a statewide focus, which to me at least, is a great place to have the two under the same banner. also, the "walks" in the name was first in order by design

Fear of getting killed by passing traffic is right up there.

Certainly true-- that, and nighttime hours when (more of) the crazies are out. At least for myself, I reckon I am more cautious as a female. Cool to hear about pedestrian advocacy. One thing that I realized during my time on crutches was how unfriendly sidewalks can be (especially with winter's complication). I am always saddened by folks in wheelchairs with inadequate sidewalk slopes by which to cross the street.

"Winter's complication" meaning people who are too lazy to shovel their sidewalks and a city that's dumb enough to suspend the snow shoveling ordinance? It makes me mad enough to want to slap anyone who complains about the roads not being plowed. Having two working legs it only added 50% or so to my walking time. On crutches or in a chair, well of course your ability to get around isn't as important as someone else's ability to sit on their butt and watch TV instead of shoveling.

I walked by a few houses daily where the driveway or walkway to the door was shoveled yet the sidewalk was not. That should be 10x the normal fine.

I have totally identified myself as a pedestrian to anyone who asks. While I used to be a bike commuter, I now primarily walk to work, and even walk to get groceries. I have nearly been hit multiple times in the short distance from my house to work in the morning while walking... i cross at a green light and drivers turn a fast, hard left onto chislett at black, or onto negley off black. While I dont expect Bike Pgh to address this stuff at all, I do believe that supporting your local bike advocacy group can do much to change car culture, traffic, and basic driver ignorance of other street users.

my 2 cents

* I am still a bike rider... I just walk to work. Just to clarify. I might ride to work the short distance if I have other places to go to that day, but my ride would be 100% negley and penn, and when I walk I go over the hill in garfield... which is way safer than riding on negley and penn before 9am

If I've ridden 20,000 buses, I've also crossed 100,000 intersections on foot. In a couple or three (hundred) of those crossings, I've nearly been creamed by someone turning on a green while I had the ped-xing light.

This has led to me becoming "experience based" rather than "rule based". My son, being rule-based, ONLY crosses when the ped-xing light is on. I disregard the light and cross when I can get across safely, and damn the rules.

How many ped accidents (fatal or not) occur because traffic does not come to a complete halt to let a pedestrian cross?

If I could change one thing in Title 75 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, as respecting pedestrians, it would be to require every signaled intersection with a ped-xing button to bring ALL traffic to a halt for a period of time when that button is pushed.

The argument against this is that it would snarl traffic. If we had a strong enough walking advocacy organization, the successful counter-argument would be "too #*!&$% bad, do it anyway".

"If I could change one thing in Title 75 of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, as respecting pedestrians, it would be to require every signaled intersection with a ped-xing button to bring ALL traffic to a halt for a period of time when that button is pushed.

The argument against this is that it would snarl traffic. If we had a strong enough walking advocacy organization, the successful counter-argument would be "too #*!&$% bad, do it anyway"."

This.

...or at least "pre-cycle" ped signals ahead of green lights as was done in Oakland. Boulevard of the Allies in South Oakland could certainly use these. Intersections at Bates and Dawson are almost death traps at rush hours.

Snarl traffic? Not hardly. Delay a motorist for fifteen seconds, maybe. Cost a fortune to outfit all the intersections with button-controlled "no right on red" signs? You bet. I'd settle for some serious enforcement from time to time. Nothing raises awareness like a $100 ticket.