I was unsure whether to post about this because it was an very intense experience that I'd rather not re-live, but I think it may be important to get the info out. I apologize in advance for the long read.
Last night, on the way to OTB for the Bike Fest ride leader meeting, I had a very scary altercation with an extremely aggressive driver.
It started because while at the stop sign on Greenfield by the church, I asked him why his bumper was inches away from my rear tire. He yelled, "move the f*** over!" I complied. As he passed he gave me the finger and yelled, "f*** you!" multiple times.
I tried to diffuse the situation multiple times, but the aggressor's behavior continued to escalate. He tried to hit me with his car multiple times, stopped his car in the middle of the intersection at the bottom of Greenfeild, got out of his car (at which point I told the women int he car behind him to please call the police--she didn't), made multiple 3 point turns to chase me, drove on the sidewalk as I ran up to jump the tracks to the trailhead, waited for me at the other end of the bridge at AEO, chased me back and forth across the Hot Metal Bridge, and yelled numerous standard threats--"I'll kick your a**", "I'll f****** kill you", etc. through out the whole or deal.
911 were called twice (the first time it was busy and after listening to a hold message between the Eliza Furnace parking lot and the Hot Metal Bridge, btut hey called me back a minute later). I was instructed to stay in the middle of the bike/ped bridge. The police never showed, but the dispatcher called me half an hour after my second 911 call to ask if I wanted to see and officer (really.)
I consider myself able to hold my own in most situations, but I was genuinely concerned for my life during this or deal, which is why 911 was called multiple times.
The driver was a 20-something white male, muscular build, very short hair, sleeveless shirt--many would consider him a "meat head".
The car was a 6th gen Honda Civic coupe (1996-2000), silver, license plate: HVM-2878. The photo below shows the car at the intersection at the bottom of Greenfield at Saline/Irvine. It has been enhanced to show what little detail is available.
This is what the model looks like:
I would consider the driver extremely dangerous and should be avoided if at all possible.
What I took from the situation: not all altercations can be diffused, knowing your surrounding can be the best defense (granted, not all situations are like this, but knowing the cut in the hillside to jump the tracks is what put the most distance between me at the aggressor). Lastly, you cannot rely on the police to help you.
As much as I hate to say it, I feel like these extreme attacks against people riding bicycles have become more and more common across the country. I'm not sure what is the solution, if there even is one, but it is something everyone should think about.
That is totally, terrifying, Nick. Glad this dude's mission failed. Your story made my skin crawl.
Sounds like he's familiar enough with cyclists' routes to look for you at the end of the Hot Metal Bridge, but not familiar enough to try the trail head parking lot.
In any case, I'm glad you escaped and I am concerned this will be a repeat offender. So, thanks for posting the warning here.
That's probably his regular route to go drinking on the South Side.
On a related note, I have a helmet cam that I use in traffic so as to give me an extra witness at all times; any thoughts on the best practices for posting video of similar aggressive incidents? I'm mostly concerned about minor aggression like passing too closely; not something I'd call the cops over but definitely something I'd like to put out there so that if the aggressor's behavior gets worse, when someone else searches for their license plate number, they can see past transgressions and realize this is not an isolated incident. Legally, I'm fairly certain I'm in the clear -- it's a public street and I'm not photographing an individual.
So, just start posting highlights on youtube with the license plate number in the title? Or is there a better way?
This only makes me want to open carry a handgun while riding.
That is seriously f'd up, thanks for posting.
Sounds like you're (rightfully) discouraged by your experience with 911, but I think it's worth filing a report, especially since you have a description of the driver and a picture of the car. Although, I wouldn't blame you for thinking it's a waste of time.
You never know who you will run into and you never know what substances they are on or how stable their mind is. Thank you for reminding us of this. Sorry that you had such an unpleasant ordeal Nick.
Honestly, I don't think that it matters that you were on a bike although that is what put you in the situation to begin with. Someone like that would go after anyone that inconveniences him... or more correctly put, appears to inconvenience him. There are some sick fucks in the world.
Salty, the police dispatcher said an officer can't ("wont" is probably more accurate) do anything.
Yeah, I figured... if he had a gun they might care a little but it was only a white kid driving his car after all.
asobi - there's some guy with a blog like that. He went to the cops with his footage once and got a ticket for his trouble.
I am glad you are ok nick. What a douche. I hope he has/gets herpes.
Time to mount my camera on a helmet.
Very scary, glad you're ok.
Gotta love the police.
"To protect and serve"
The problem is not so much people vs cyclists as it is just unchecked aggression in general. That guy acted that way and did that because he felt he could get away with it or because he has gotten away with it.
Know where you are at, know where you can go quickly if you need to, and know where they can't if it is possible. Always have a way out.
One one to get a better response from the dispatcher might be to mention you think you saw a gun, and/or drugs falling out of the perp's pockets.
Further motivation to get that blog up and running.
Super glad you're ok. That had to be 'roid rage or some other chemical, that's just not normal.
yeah, I'm not a lawyer or anything, but that smacks of some form of law breaking, and thus a report should be in order. I can't imagine that person would pull that crap with a cop on a bicycle and get away with it, and I see no reason why you should be treated with any less respect.
The woman he was with can't be in a good place either.
Unbelievable, and yes, the first thing I thought was 'roid rage. Also, I'm sure that folks get convicted of disorderly conduct for far less offensive conduct. Anyway, glad you are OK.
Nick, glad to hear you are okay. Not sure if it was the same jerk but I had a problem with a guy driving a car of the same description in the SS works last month. I was at the 4-way intersection of Sidney and 27th and the guy was texting on his phone while he rolled right thru the stop sign in front of me. As he passed I told him it's dangerious to text & drive & he went thru a stop sign. The dude blew a gasket and pulled into the exit lane of the parking garage on Sidney & jumped out of his car. Then ran up to me yelling I was a fairy and that he was going to kick my ars Blah, Blah, Blah. It was about 1PM and there were a lot of people staring at him like he was some kind of lunatic. Then the parking attendant of the garage came out and told the guy his car was blocking the exit and he was calling the cops. The guy jumped back in his car and pealed out. The dude was 5’10”ish, with short sandy blond hair, was wearing a shirt and tie but still meat head looking…he was defiantly driving the same kind of silver Honda Civic.
@asobi: post helmet cam video on youtube with the plate in the title. PA plate ENW 9062. Driver being a moron and threatening me on my commute. 12.8.2011
A google search for enw9062 brings this back as the first result.
Another way to get the police more interested is to claim injury. I think that even a minor injury from all the altercation counts. So if you say you think you might have a back injury from the dude whipping around you that might get them moving. Though you might end up having to spend more time than you'd like, maybe having to go to the ER to get it documented.
(This is from my brother-in-law, who is a cop in DC, who says the police aren't allowed to respond to an accident on private property, say in a parking lot, unless there is an injury involved. I know this wasn't private property but I suspect the injury is some sort of trigger legally.)
Someone with access can probably look up that plate and find out who the dude was, just saying.
A person calls 911 multiple times reporting being in imminent danger of assault, and the police not only don't show up but refuse do any kind of follow up despite a photo of the car with license plate? That is seriously discouraging.
Did you try to escalate beyond the dispatcher? I would ask for the next level up supervisor until I got an answer why that didn't warrant any action or at least follow up. A simple call/visit from an officer may deter what next time might be much more serious. I hope I am not the one that runs across him next.
I suggest the problem is not the lack of a response by they Pgh Police. But it’s the crappy merger of the City/County 911 system. The line was busy? And you don’t know how long it took them to forward the info to the Pgh dispatcher or what sense of urgency (or lack of) was conveyed to the dispatcher. You would think that after the incidents with the Stanton Heights shooting & Snowmageddon they would have addressed these problems.
When I need the cops in Crafton, I have to call Allegheny County 911. Since I frequently need to request police drive-bys to kick the delinquent teens out of the park next to my house, I probably call 911 once a month - more in nice weather.
Yes, I've received a busy signal many times, which scares me. What if something were on fire? Or I were being threatened?
And I agree with others, when I imply a crime, cops show up faster.
For example, this was a real conversation this fall.
Me: "There are kids in the park even though it's closed. I would like to have the cops come by and tell them to leave."
Dispatch, with skeptic voice: "Well what are they doing?"
Me: "I can't see because it's dark."
Dispatch, same tone: "So they're just sitting there?"
Me: "Well there has been vandalism there in the past, so I thought someone should come check it out."
Dispatch with different tone of voice: "We'll send someone down right away."
Regardless of dispatch/cops issues, I'm glad Nick is OK. This guy sounds like a scary rage head who is going to hurt someone soon.
Ugh. This really makes me feel ill. Both the driver's out of control behavior and the (non) reaction from the police. Glad you're ok, Nick.
Out of curiosity: after you moved over, why didn't he just drive on? I'm not trying to suggest you did something to make things worse; just wondering what made him jump the level from "really pissed off" to "extended pursuit with intent to assault".
Were you on your tall bike?
Greasefoot, that could very well be the same guy.
Sloaps, I wish. I never have had a negative experience on a tall bike.
Rzod, when I moved over is when he started yelling and giving me the finger. Trust me, I did everything possible to diffuse the situation. As he drove by slowly, "I said, there you go. Pass. Sorry." This guy obviously is completely irrational, dangerous, and quite possibly a complete sociopath.
There was a young woman on a mixte with a crate on it and a very weak rear light that saw him lose it by the church.
EDIT: Looking at my call log, it was 20 minutes between my second 911 call and the call from dispatch, not 30min--though, it felt like an hour.
Wow. This was(is) a scary story. Hoping this goon is a Greenfielder so I can spot him and give him a face full of bear spray.
Also: Not to flame-out on you @pinky, but calling the cops to clear kids out of parks? #PARTOFTHEPROBLEM
#hashtagsinnormalconversationpartoftheproblem
#whatshouldshedo?
I doubled-down with a hash tag and all caps!
She should use 911 for emergencies!
Thanks for your opinion Randy, but considering the park 1) closes at dark 2) gets regularly vandalized and 3) is right next to my house, I feel like it's part of me being a responsible citizen to do a bit of neighborhood watch.
There is no direct number for me to call the police. We are advised to use 911 by the borough, and by the police.
If we are advised to use 911, and the system cannot handle it, that's the problem. Not me being an active member of my community.
my grammy used to call the cops on kids in the park... good to see we're keeping that tradition going. i love you grammy
"Also: Not to flame-out on you @pinky, but calling the cops to clear kids out of parks? #PARTOFTHEPROBLEM"
Joke's on you randy; I've called the cops on local lines for similar issues only to be told that I should have called 911. They want all calls directed that way. I don't disagree that it's a stupid system, but it IS the system and pinky did nothing wrong.
grammy, is that you? how is it up there in heaven. kids still on your lawn?
Ugh, @headloss. You dragged me back in! 
Quick "City Living Guide"
1. When scary shit happens, ala Nick's situation: call the police..immediately!!
2. When kids are loitering in a park after curfew: whine on facebook (or post here).
Your opinion randy, but you are coming off sounding like a pompous jerk.
Sorry, I thought there was a debate on police response and 911??Off to ride my bike in the sun!
^note emoticons!
I really should stay out of it, but I believe Randy is inferring that maybe one of the reasons no cops showed up is that they are chasing kids out of the park (or the like), or possibly patrolling oakland after a tragedy happened there earlier in the day.
1. It's not a debate, it's a discussion.
2. You turned it into a debate by passing judgement on someone's use of 911 despite the police telling her to use 911.
If you want to argue that 911 shouldn't be used to report vandals, I doubt that anyone here would disagree. I don't think it's fair to say that the vandals shouldn't be reported though; you don't know all the details of pinky's situation. Emoticons can only do so much...
Is smith8917 a friend of yours? I find it curious that a troll appears just for this thread and only after you give your input.
@dmtroyer, for the most part I agree with that. It's all about the wording and perceived slights.
@randy, enjoy the ride and watch out for those Friday evening drivers! Peace bro!
who, randy?? he's a pompous jerk. also, if you're so concerned about people in a park, be a brave little boy or girl and go talk to them... it'll keep 'em from stealing your bike or egging your house at Halloween.
at least the troll knows the proper use of apostrophes... which implies at least half of a brain. What's wrong, facebook blocked on the computers at work?
yes (#frownie face emoticon).
lest we forget, meat head with the speedy honda
Nick, I'm glad to hear you are OK.
It is so bizarre and scary that he would chase you.
WTF with 9-1-1?
Can Bike-pgh, Stephen P. or someone make a protest over this?
I'm thinking that if you called from a car about someone chasing you and threatening you, the police would respond.
I would have considered looking for something shiny in his car and told 9-1-1 "I saw something gleam in the car. It might be a gun."
I would think that if the police went to question the guy about this, he might respond in wtih the saem behavior that he did with you. He probably would not. But there is a chance that he would.
Just having the police go to his door to question him would be victory.
Is a possibly of taking legal action? They give people restraining orders for a lot less than this.
@Nick - You have two 911 calls, presumably on tape and so they can hear what you sound like, and a photo of the car, with plate, and this thread. What else could they possibly need in order to at least knock on the guy's door, other than blood spilled?
Wow. What happened to this thread?
Anyhow, Mick, Stephen P. sent me a message this morning.
Stu, I have no doubt that there is plenty of legal precedent for police to be able to do something about it. However, in this case, they refused.
I'm not hear to talk about my thoughts on the Pittsburgh Police, the 911 system, or anything else. I just wanted to share the experience because it may be able to help someone else. As much as I wish something could/will be done, I can't help to think that it will get swept under the rug.
i feel like speak for a lot of people when i say that really and truly sucks. please let us know if this ever gets anywhere, because it will be a very real injustice if it doesn't, for whatever reason.
Ok, I wouldn’t normally post this, but I think it’s a good example of what SHOULD happen. I was on a grocery run this afternoon going down hill on a two lane road toward a curve with a traffic light just as the curve straightens out. I’ve done this dozens of times so I know the safest thing for me to do is to take the center of the lane due to bad sight lines and stopped traffic. Sure enough some A-hat passes me by going over the double yellow, then aggressively cuts in front of me and slams on his brakes due to stopped traffic (I was doing 27mph in a 35mph). We exchange some words, I take his picture & license plate with my phone, and we part ways. I don’t know where he went, but I went to the Whitehall PD. I asked how I could make a report about an aggressive driver. An officer took down my info, he ran the plate, and I sent him the photos from my phone. He said he would go talk with the guy, and wanted to know what I wanted. I said I don’t necessarily want the guy to get a ticket, but I DO want him to become a better driver. The policeman said he would gauge the guy’s response, and if it was bad he would write a citation if I would be willing to go to the magistrate. I said sure thing. He said he would call me after he talks to the guy to let me know how the encounter goes.
Wow, Marko that sounds very positive.
Ok, so the Whitehall policeman just called me back. I reported the incident at around 3pm and it’s now almost 6pm. He said he went and talked to the driver. He said the guy apologized – said he was in a hurry & having a bad day, etc. The officer told me that he instructed him on some of the bicycle/traffic laws and stressed how important it is to drive safely. He said the guy didn’t come off to him as too big a jerk, and that he seemed to be listening to what the officer was saying. I thanked the officer several times for following up on the incident and said I was satisfied with the outcome.
Five stars & many thanks to our friends in blue in Whitehall!
Good cop, mucho donuts.
In general, stuff like this is why I picked up a helmet cam. You never know who's in a hurry & having a bad day.
The beauty of this board is that we can record for posterity the "best practices" that assure a positive outcome for all involved.
@Marko82
Two thumbs up to and to the officer.
whoa. surreal. some cop redemption, for sure.
"In general, stuff like this is why I picked up a helmet cam. You never know who's in a hurry & having a bad day."
id like to have a helmet cam that uses my cell phone's data connection to constantly upload everything it sees. that way, if it gets damaged or taken, the image of the perpetrator are preserved and available from anywhere.
Ooh, Bluetooth helmet cam to cell phone that sends video when 911 is dialed. That would be some geekin' there. Somebody get on that.
@edmonds: start with this Samsung camera, perhaps? It's already got the capability of being controlled remotely using your phone as a viewfinder, as well as transferring photos to said phone.
You want the Eye-Fi.
It's an SD wireless card that goes in your camera and sends out pictures automatically. The low end unit is for your home wireless network but the next step up has direct mode that can be set to send to an iphone or droid automatically and from there automatically uploaded to websites.
Looks like the capabilities you want are in the $80 range.
http://www.eye.fi/how-it-works/basics
we are getting kinda off-topic now, but maybe we could use this wifi-enabled memory card with a helmet cam and a cellphone in wifi hotspot mode (in fact, they seem to have iphone and android apps that dont even require the hotspot functionality). there are at least a few bboard topics about helmet cameras on here already, but if someone knows of one that works well, takes full-size sd cards and is weatherproof, i might give it a shot. it would be nice to have in situations like the one nick was stuck in, as well as if the wearer is hit and put into a coma (or worse) and cant testify for themselves, or even if the wearer was getting mugged (you could say 'maybe you dont want to do this, your image is being sent to the internet right now').
i see a few drawbacks, though:
1) itll use battery like a mofo, both in the camera and the phone.
2) a few hours of video in a high enough resolution could easily push past the quota of the no-longer-unlimited mobile data packages that are now so common.
3) i think you need to stop recording / close the file before it starts uploading, so it would be nice if the camera could stop and restart recording automatically every few minutes or had an easily reachable control to do the same.
looks like i took too long to type my novel. at least kordite and i are on the same page.
it looks like there are commercial solutions with streaming ability... either the gobandit live or the gopro hd hero2 plus the gopro wifi backpac will do the trick when combined with a phone, though its not clear to me yet that their definition of 'streaming' includes 'instantaneous saving to dropbox' or equivalent.
Guys, if you do the math, what you're looking for is not possible under current wireless capabilities. Using your average 1080p or even 720p helmet-cam, 10 minutes of video will be somewhere between 500 MB-1 GB. If you want to transmit this over 3G or 4G data connection, you'll quickly swamp your wireless carrier's 5GB monthly maximum, and no one gets unlimited data any more. Wifi is out of the question, because it's not available on the road where you need it for cycling.
Even sending the video stream over bluetooth to a storage device doesn't seem all that realistic, as I'm guessing it would cut your battery life in half. A good helmet cam without wireless transmission is going to last you about 2-3 hours per charge.
By all means use a helmet cam, but I'm thinking the functionality you're looking for is a good 2-3 years off. Unless the spectrum auction happens a lot sooner than anticipated and phone manufacturers can update their designs for it rapidly.
ive have looked at a number of videos on my machine, all doing 720p (1280x720@25-30fps (unknown bpp) plus a stereo mp3 audio track) and theyre all like 22MB/min... the hd video wikipedia page claims 720p can be done at 2.5Mbit/s, which is 18.75MB/min. with a 5GB per month quota, youd be limited to uploading <9 mins of video per day or ~12.5mins/weekday. i agree, thats pretty crappy. however, i dont think you need to have that much detail to demonstrate fault, get a license plate number, or identify a face. if we drop the resolution to 640x360, cut the frame rate in half, and maybe make the audio monaural (and if the data rate scales linearly), you could upload more than 1.5 hours of video every day you commute (im only counting weekdays) and still meet the quota. my commute is a little over 30mins round trip -- i would only need 1.7GB per month in this thought experiment.
of course, this depends on a number of other factors, like the ability to sustain throughput at a fairly high rate, enough buffering space to cover dead zones, the ability of the camera or phone to do real-time compression, and it ignores the other data usage you might be doing (also the previously mentioned battery issues). maybe it would be better to activate the streaming with a button press or on detection of an impact.
if anyone wants to continue this discussion (or figure out how to monetize this and get rich with me), we shoud probably meet up on one of the helmet cam related threads
Nick, was this Friday night? Maybe this guy frequents the local Greenfield bars. I'll keep my eyes peeled when I'm in the area.
@melange396 - the black boxes in airplanes and the cockpit voice recorders used to (back before the bandwidth explosion) only keep the previous 30 minutes.
So put a "OH-NO" button on the camera. When a bad thing happens, the rider presses the "OH-NO" button and the last 30 minutes of data gets uploaded.
That way, you're nowhere near your monthly plan limit, and you're not uploading everything - just the data that matters. It's a sort of digital sustainability.
just thinking. please resume.
Trying to post again -- previous attempt didn't work for some reason and I received no error message.
Look at video online taken at 720p, and see at what distance you can make out a license plate. Now imagine 1/4 that resolution; it's doubtful you would still be able to make out a license plate, or a face for that matter. Frankly I'm amazed Nick managed to enhance that night photo to pick out a license plate; not sure at what resolution he was operating.
@Vannevar: what if the OH-NO moment is when you're unconscious after being hit? Maybe some sort of acceleration sensor in the cam / card that will trigger the upload after a certain threshold?
A local company created wireless sensors for football helmets that measures the amount of force in a impact. Durring a game all the information is recorded & monitored by trainers & coaches. The sysem also has pre determined impact limits to notify coaches when a player should be removed from a game to be examined.
The same kind of sensor set up could be used in a bicycle helmet to turn on a camera or dial 911 in the event of an accident.
@asobi, youre right. on the 1080p youtube videos i pulled up, its hard to read plates even on cars that are moving at low relative speeds to the biker. max resolution with high frame rate are a must.
@greasefoot, i like the auto-911 option, but accidental triggerings might cost you a ticket.
@nick, did the honda have a sunroof? a guy in a silver civic (plus sunroof) gave me some strange looks today on greenfield ave, but i didnt catch the plate. he didnt look very 'dudebro', but sometimes its hard to tell. what do we do if we ever see this guy: peddle as fast as possible in the other direction? act responsibly but hope he gets aggro so we can file a police report? follow him home and do the flaming bag ring-n-run trick?
@melange396: B.
B, then C
@asobi, the picture I posted is actually a still taken at 3264x1952. I took the picture when I came to the bottom of the hill and found him waiting through a light cycle. I suspect the plate came out clearly due to my front light and the retroreflective properties of a license plate.
melange396, I have no idea on the sunroof. I would recommend steering very clear of this individual if you suspect you see him.
from the story, I'd choose option D - keep respectful distance and hope NOTHING bad happens.
I'd rather none of us experienced anything on the level of anybody (even if just us) thinking a police report has to be taken. ever. I know that's not going to be the case, statistically stuff happens, but I'll not hope for it.
I'd even go so far as to hope this guy at some point sees the light, either about whatever substance he may be abusing or about cyclists, or both. I wouldn't try to do outreach to encourage it in this case, but I don't see anything wrong with hope for a positive change. It may not be likely, but it is possible.
Wow thats terrible Nick glad you are ok.
I live around there will keep an eye out for this loser.
I really don't understand why anybody thinks that the police/911 would respond to this though. The police are there to protect and serve themselves not us. This isn't a t.v. show.
"I really don't understand why anybody thinks that the police/911 would respond to this though. The police are there to protect and serve themselves not us. This isn't a t.v. show."
Because sometimes good stuff does happen. Read Marko's post where the officer followed up and talked to the driver or read the post about the cops in South Park telling riders couldn't ride two abreast only to be schooled the following Monday by their superior. It's almost always worth reporting to the police any situation you feel threatened.
Yeah, I actually had a really nice interaction with the police in Oakland the other day. I almost got smashed by a Dean Foods truck whose driver was either highly aggressive or highly driving-with-eyes-closed and crazily swerved into my lane, and I called just because I was so shaken up by it and wasn't sure what to do. I felt weird calling since I wasn't hurt, and I kept apologizing for it, but a city officer (and a CMU officer who just happened to hear it over the radio) showed up quickly, were very kind, made sure I was okay, told me I did the right thing by calling, etc. They said they unfortunately couldn't do anything since they didn't see it and I wasn't hurt but urged me to report the driver to Dean Foods. They also said they had been talking about the 4-foot-passing law a ton lately to make sure all the officers who work in that area were aware of it, which was encouraging. Still totally sucks that they didn't respond in the case this thread is talking about, but they're not all bad.
I don't get this "we didn't see it " bullshit.
The police arrest people all the time for crimes they do not see committed. I would hazard a guess that 99.9% of crimes that someone is ultimately arrested for are NOT witnessed by a police officer.
Yeah, I was frustrated about that, but I wasn't really sure how to argue with them. If anyone has some idea of how I should have handled that, I'm curious. I don't know whether it would have been different if I'd been in a car instead of on a bike; I do imagine it might have been different if I'd been hit/injured. I guess I understand the idea that they can't go chasing after every single person who is accused of driving recklessly and causing a close call, or otherwise they'd never get anything else done, but... IDK.
Edit: To add one to the "there's hope for the human race" column, a random stranger stopped at the next light to comment on how insane it was / how close the driver was to me, and then she took it upon herself to catch up with the guy and write down the license plate # AND the truck number so that she could give them to me (and she held up traffic at Forbes and Craig just to do so, and a line of cars waited patiently behind her while she did). Thanks, random lady
